Europe's airlines and airports question flight bans

What if there is something else going on in the background,and the volcano is the perfect smokescreen...
Or this could be being exagerrated in order to deflect the gaze of the media from other events yet to unfold?

Sorry,conspiracy gland off(for now).

On the BBC news earlier this evening it was mentioned that these test flights did not in fact fly through any ash clouds but took flight paths into the gaps between the plumes. Some of the flights even flew beneath them.

I did make some sarcastic comment to my wife about it at the time so I know I heard the news correctly.

On the BBC news website it is now being reported that test flights were flown though the plumes which directly contradicts the earlier news reporting – unless it was an inaccuracy that has now been updated and corrected of course.

If these test flights took routs between the plumes than it would stand to logic that the test flights were enacted out a fear of protesting coffers rather than out of concern for stranded customers. From the same news piece came another interesting piece of information that British Airways for instance can stay grounded for about three weeks – after that they risk very real financial ruin.

I have no link to confirm what I have just said as it came direct from the television set but I thought it worth mentioning anyway and I would not be chancing safety of mine as a stranded (or desperate to holiday) customer just because my carrier is desperate to start making money again.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by SmokeJaguar67]

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
Does anyone else think this is possibly the next H1N1 fear card? The next banking fraud? The next attempt to destroy the economy?

The next "bail-out" using public funds.

Yes this is exactly what I was thinking. Time to bailout the airline industry right?

What are they hiding up there?
I dont believe what they are telling us. they band all flights. gliders!!! and I took a close look at the satellite pic. the clouds have a shadow. but the ash cloud does not? keep a close eye on the pollution levels! we may just find out that planes make half of it. or more. they are crying they are losing money? no! they are just losing Profit. bo! hu! I hope they dont make us pay for it. I live in UK and at night when I look at the stars they dont shimmer as much as they use’t to?? less pollution?
and I know I can not spell

Im in Scotland very close to a major airport, both my son and his father in law are mechanics for a large haulage operator that uses 747s. They are not cospiracy minded in the slightest but both have real doubts about the total shutdown reaction here in most of Europe.

They say the sat pics they have viewed should not be causing a shutdown and that flights could be getting diverted round the plume. Come to think of it its been a few days since Ive seen any sat pics of the cloud?? anyone?

Like others the sky is a cloudless blue here and has been for 3 or 4 days now. The quarter moon is fully visible and has no haze at all. My "ohoh" bell started ringing 2 days ago and is getting louder by the day.

Isn`t the quietness quite eerie? Guess its a wait and watch scenario as a piece dosnt quite fit the jigsaw here.


Respects



[edit on 18-4-2010 by captiva]

anybody have some recent pics of the volcano
or the plume cloud???

or maybe an active webcam of it???

would be helpful in determining
accuracy of the reports.

Originally posted by DOADOA
i think there is something up there and somebody don't want people to see it. what a convenient excuse, volcanic ashes. can somebody tell which volcano erupted again?

Originally posted by hesse
Something smells mega fishy here. I just cant figure out what. I dont know what else to say. We will see..... Feels a little like the calm before the storm.

I have to admit, both your statements have gone through my mind the last day or so, almost word for word too!

Something very weird about all this... what, I don't know, but something stinks to high heaven

Originally posted by boondock-saint
anybody have some recent pics of the volcano
or the plume cloud???

or maybe an active webcam of it???

would be helpful in determining
accuracy of the reports.

All you need here

ashalerts.com...

webcams here

eldgos.mila.is...

Operation volcano! Navy armada ready to pick up thousands of stranded Britons after France scuppers DIY rescue mission

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... .html#ixzz0lUqEVjWl


Just found this, is it really necessary?

Its midnight here in Sweden.. and I can clearly see the stars.. Strange how there were no ash clouds for the past several days.. They have to start the air traffic tomorrow !

Some pilots have been questioning why they can't fly underneath the cloud of ash:

www.dailymail.co.uk...
This is the last part of the article:

We have been scared into believing that to fly would be madness, but part of the rationale that is keeping us grounded is an economic equation rather than simple personal safety.
To fly beneath the cloud until clear of it would mean burning more fuel. But not flying at all is surely burning money more swiftly.
Low-flying to simply avoid the danger of ash being sucked into the jet engines is a temporary solution gaining currency on professional pilot’s forum Pprune. One pilot writing there yesterday pointed out: ‘The chances of it even appearing at puddle jumper altitudes is negligible’.
It isn’t just daredevil pilots who are beginning to question the necessity of the current stalemate. Steve Wood, Chief Pilot at Sussex and Surrey Air Ambulance, yesterday described the measures being taken as ‘a complete overreaction’.
Modern jet aircraft engines are amazingly robust. And indeed they must be so. They have to face not only the hazards of bird strikes, but rain, hail and even salt spray on take-off from coastal airports.
All of which can potentially wreak havoc on engines. Furthermore, sand is a common hazard from dust storms and from desert airfields.
Some aircraft are better equipped than others to deal with high-dust conditions, and consultation with aircraft and engine manufacturers might have enabled more precise restrictions to be imposed, rather than a blanket ban.
But a spokesman for NATS admitted: ‘We don’t really deal with particular manufacturers.’ They were more concerned with ‘applying the international regulations’ rather than working on a specific plane-by-plane, make-by-make basis.
The blanket ban under clear blue skies and glorious sunshine is making some wonder whether this ‘one-size-fits-all’ regulation is appropriate to a situation that the regulations did not foresee.
And there will be many among the 200,000 Britons currently stranded abroad, who would be quite happy to take the risk.
In the final analysis, despite the scares, no one has actually been killed in a volcano incident – something which cannot be said for the much more hazardous drive to the airport.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by berenike]

Flight ban 'not over-reacting' say Wiltshire scientists
news.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by Bagatell


Probably because the airspace above where they're taking off might not be as crap-ridden as the airspace through which their flight path takes them... last time I checked, most planes didn't vertically take off and then come right back down. They... y'know, flew places...

And as far as the airlines demanding answers as to why they can't take off... umm, well if I was a greedy git that saw potential lost revenue as more important than passenger safety, I'd bitch too...



[edit on 18-4-2010 by Legion2112]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Operation volcano! Navy armada ready to pick up thousands of stranded Britons after France scuppers DIY rescue mission
....is it really necessary?

Yes. Being as the UK is an island it makes sense to get some of those folks home, clear the ports, STOP THE FERRY AND EUROSTAR COMPANIES PROFITEERING, reunite families, get workers back to their jobs, clear the expat websites of "lift needed" adverts, and do the British thing and carry on regardless.

This pick up mission would have started a while ago if it wasn't for the French pen-pushers and their egos.

Tally-ho...what!

Bring back propellers and biplanes I say..

[edit on 18/4/2010 by nerbot]

If it is proven that it is completely safe to fly within extremely dilute ash clouds, then the skies should be opened again. If flying below the cloud, at the expense of speed and fuel burn, helps the situation, then that should be done also.

Before the flight ban, Finnish Airforce aircraft flew through the cloud. Here's images of the damage:

www.flightglobal.com...





edit: spelling

I will not reschedule until all the ash is gone. I believe what we are seeing is good old fashioned greed. The airlines are losing 200 million a day and now they are lobbying to resume flight.

err... trying to stop your business from loosing 200 million per day doesn't make one greedy. If they can prove it then it should be done.

[edit on 19/4/2010 by C0bzz]

[edit on 19/4/2010 by C0bzz]

Profits over safety??

Europe flights resume, though Icelandic volcano's ash remains

www.usatoday.com...

Originally posted by yellow.sapphirineIts midnight here in Sweden.. and I can clearly see the stars.. Strange how there were no ash clouds for the past several days.. They have to start the air traffic tomorrow !

It might not be in your location, plus it's not visible to the naked eye. You have to also think that it will go through certain flight paths so while it might not be in the immediate vacinity the planes will have to fly through it at some point on their journey!

I'm actually quite glad that for once we are looking out for peoples safety over financial profit. I just hope that if and when they resume flights soon (no doubt they will do) they don't rush it and cause an air disaster and loss of life. I've got uni friends waiting to come back from Ireland and I'd rather see them get back in one piece. I'm normally the first to laugh at knee jerk reactions to certain policies put in place to "protect" us from harm but in this instance I fully respect the decisions made to halt air travel.

It also makes you wonder how we got on in life before air travel and how society would fall to it's knees if anything worse like an EMP hit us due to our realiance on technology

reply to post by Discotech

I'm actually quite glad that for once we are looking out for peoples safety over financial profit. I just hope that if and when they resume flights soon (no doubt they will do) they don't rush it and cause an air disaster and loss of life. I've got uni friends waiting to come back from Ireland and I'd rather see them get back in one piece. I'm normally the first to laugh at knee jerk reactions to certain policies put in place to "protect" us from harm but in this instance I fully respect the decisions made to halt air travel.

Absolutely.

Unfortunately, the airlines are already suffering and so it remains to be seen which airlines are going to put their passengers before profits. The first plane to fall out of the sky due to ash will soon change people's minds about whether to chance it or not - I certainly would cancel all of my flying plans until there was an all clear - not a "it's better" or "lighter" but CLEAR.

I'm amazed at posters who look in the sky and say "can't see anything - get the planes moving"

You have absolutely no evidence that it is not safe to fly in extremely dilute ash cloud, unless you can provide some then judging airlines for apparently putting profits before passengers is simply invalid.

reply to post by MoorfNZ


I think the problem is that in most of the media coverage there's far too little science behind the WHY, which is why people just assume they can't see it so there's nothing to worry about and of course most are too lazy to go educate themselves and find out answers to questions they don't know.

Another thing I don't like is the media is focusing on the financial issues for the plane companies but very little is being said on the whole import/export businesses. Stuff like fruit and veg which isn't grown in the UK isn't getting imported here currently so there's probably going to be mass panic soon because folk can't get their tomatoes or lettuce or bananas which is going to result in people panic buying making it even worse, or the shops are going to jack their prices up to make a tidy profit. While the people who produce the stuff and the consumers are going to be the ones most hurt.

But again it just highlights our whole realiance on outside sources, whether it's technology or need for more food than we can provide, it's pretty sad really as we all managed to cope just fine before the age of flight, yet now one little volcano is affecting so many nations.