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Serpent Mound

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posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 02:19 AM
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Many of us know of Serpent Mound but little has been determined of it's significance or even when it was built with any certainty.

There is much speculation that it is a representation of the constellation Draco. And that may lead to some credence to being built even pre-Adena, when Thuban (Alpha Draconis) was the Pole Star. Which also goes on to claims of present day alignments with solstices and equinoxes along the curves of the body.

But the mention of observing the formation of the Crab Nebula in 1054 is what really made me think.

Is it possible that Serpent Mound could have been built to help calculate solar and/or lunar eclipses. And I have to admit that the swallowing of the egg is what set me on to this idea. That somewhere on the site there would be an observation point to track and calculate lunar max and min nodes along with the the 29.5 day lunar month for determining possible eclipses?




posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 02:35 AM
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Good question and I am no expert but my guess would be no , the snake mound would not be much help for predicting an eclipse .

Most astronomical markers are placed in line with the rising Sun , Star , ext . This lining often focuses on the targeted celestial body during the equinox or solstice .

As for marking the moon , if I am not mistaken there was a time when the world calendar was based on the cycle of the moon . These calendars were based on a 13 month year . This calendar was not that reliable and quite often days had to be added to certain month to bring the calendar back into line with the solstices and equinox .

As for predicting an eclipse it is my understanding that the moon will repeat the exact same cycle ever 19 years . If thats the case then predicting an eclipse only requires one to keep 19 year records marking there local eclipse .

But once again great thread and I look forward to hearing the thoughts of others on this topic



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 02:53 AM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 
I think you can speculate to your heart's content. Very little is conclusive about the place. The wiki doesn't mention that the Serpent Mound is constructed on an impact crater. It's aligned to the solstice, which is a sign of an agricultural society. Perhaps the crater held some significance that inspired the choice of location?

The first time I read about this was in an old paranormal book as a kid. It was claimed the place is haunted by unusual creatures and that night-time visitors can have paralysed moments of terror.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
The first time I read about this was in an old paranormal book as a kid. It was claimed the place is haunted by unusual creatures and that night-time visitors can have paralysed moments of terror.


I've lived near American Indian earthworks all my life and never heard such stories. Could you elaborate?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to track down any stories from my area.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 
'Paranormal book,' Rex. That means probably made up...I should've been clearer. The book was a colourful collection of 'unexplained mysteries.' It was part of a set and I gave them away to kids a few years ago. They're good stuff for a child's imagination...didn't do mine much harm.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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After much searching the following Total and Annular Solar Eclipse Paths occurred along Serpent Mound. It is interesting to note that over 5000 year spread (2000 BCE 3000 CE)that only 40 can be seen from the site. It is also interesting the number of events that occur around equinoxes and solstices.


  1. Oct 25, 1987 BCE Total
  2. May 25, 1840 BCE Total
  3. June 25, 1813 BCE Total...it was the endpoint of the eclipse.
  4. Sept 17, 1799 BCE Annular
  5. Sept 18, 1772 BCE Annular
  6. Oct 21, 1718 BCE Annular
  7. July 12, 1489 BCE Annular
  8. March 24, 1316 BCE Annular
  9. Nov 29, 1282 BCE Annular
  10. June 17, 1199 BCE Annular
  11. July 19, 1126 BCE Annular...near the beginning point
  12. May 30, 1059 BCE Annular
  13. June 2, 929 BCE Total...near the endpoint
  14. Feb 7, 913 BCE Total
  15. July 24, 866 BCE Total
  16. March 13, 813 BCE Annular
  17. June 25, 223 BCE Total
  18. March 24,171 BCE Total
  19. March 21, 98 CE Annular
  20. Jan 28, 138 CE Total
  21. Oct 10, 451 CE Annular
  22. Oct 14, 608 CE Annular
  23. March 21, 619 CE Total
  24. May 15, 831 CE Total
  25. Oct 31, 1008 CE Annular
  26. Dec 3, 1062 CE Annular
  27. Dec 26, 1125 CE Annular
  28. April 12, 1279 CE Annular...near totality
  29. Jan 21, 1395 CE Total
  30. April 3, 1791 CE Annular
  31. Sept 17, 1811 CE Annular
  32. Sept 18, 1838 CE Annular
  33. April 8, 2024 CE Total
  34. July 23, 2093 CE Annular
  35. Sept 14, 2099 CE Total
  36. April 12, 2154 CE Annular
  37. July 15, 2251 CE Annular
  38. Dec 4, 2355 CE Annular
  39. June 21, 2411 CE Annular
  40. July 28, 2614 CE Annular


The Adena existed from 1000 to 200 BCE and would have seen 5 eclipses had they built the site and given significance of the one in 929 BCE. may produce strong argument for recreating what they saw or recreating the event from 1126 BCE. While outside of traditional timeframe, 126 years would be consistent with the idea of the Archaic era (3400 BCE-1400 BCE) migrating or exploring and could have seen at least 10 eclipses. One of which would have been significant.

The Hopewell existed from 200 BCE to 500 CE and would have only witnessed four eclipses.

The Fort Ancient existed from 1000-1650 CE and would have seen five eclipses. With one at near totality.

If part of any the cultures revolved around observation of eclipses, the nearly 600 year gap could have lead to the downfall of the Adena considering the frequency they would have enjoyed in their earlier days. Eclipses could have had a circumstantial relationship to bountiful hunts or winning over warring tribes or even times of relative peace.

The same could be also said of the Hopewell and the Fort Ancient who also had large gaps near the end of their cultures after some frequency near their beginnings.

There is speculation that the Shawnee were descendants of the Fort Ancients. Although the Shawnee are mentioned as early as 1614 by Dutch traders and the ones in Ohio by French in the later 1600's. Also Shawnee legend has them descendent from a group sent to settle in the Shenandoah Valley in the early 1600's. The Shawnee did settle along the Scioto River Valley near Chillicothe in the 1750's and was finally removed from Ohio in the 1830's.

It may be significant to point out that the last observable eclipse in the modern era is 1838 and will not be seen again until 2024.


[edit on 18-4-2010 by Ahabstar]



posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Max_TO
Good question and I am no expert but my guess would be no , the snake mound would not be much help for predicting an eclipse .


I tend to agree. 4 to 5 solar eclipses over the lifespan of the whole culture is not enough data to use to predict anything (unless you know a lot about the solar system and the planetary orbits.) Lunar eclipses run on 18 year cycles, but that would mean they'd have to have more than a few cycles worth of data and some pretty good record keeping.

So we'd see cultural artifacts with these kinds of markings and observatories of some sort set up. I'm not familiar with the cultures mentioned in the article (though I'm generally familiar with some of the Native American cultures), and without further reading about the villages and so forth of these people, I don't have enough information to comment further.


As for marking the moon , if I am not mistaken there was a time when the world calendar was based on the cycle of the moon .


Most, but not all, ancient cultures did this.

However... it could have been built to commemorate ONE eclipse. That's not out of the realm of possibility, if it was the only one they'd ever seen and they felt they were "saved" by some act or another.

The mounds fascinate me, but I'm more familiar with the Caddo mounds (which were used for burial and were associated with the "fire temple" and with the houses of chiefs.)

Most of the recent material has been about the impact crater. I'm not seeing a lot of scholarly papers on the culture or artifacts in the past 15 years, indicating that they don't want to disturb it further and that they've done enough research for now.

So... some questions to ask:
1) are there other "star artifacts", particularly those showing patterns of stars? (note: the star patterns they associate with things are probably NOT going to be the same constellations we identify.)

2) what do we know about the religion of this particular culture (did they have "fire temples", which Europeans first met the people and what did they write about them)?

3) which cultures took their place, and do these cultures have some "common" stories (myths)? If so, they may be derived (in the distant past) from favorite or important stories of this group.

4) Who did they trade with?

5) what theories have been published by archaeologists/anthropologists/historians about this? (I'm limiting it to historians and archaeologists and anthropologists because they have a standard method of deciding what's reliable information and what isn't. If we go on "Uncle Joe told me this" or "This newspaper had a story about..." we can end up in a mess of bad information -- particularly given the quality of news reporting in the 1800's.)

(I'll think of more, but those would be interesting as a start to exploring the idea of the mound)



posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Thanks for stopping by, Byrd.

While my idea of a calculator may have been more in line of hoping fro a deeper purpose. A homage to an event may not be out of the question either. Determining which event that inspired it may narrow down the builders.

The strong evidence for the Fort Ancient culture hinges on the carbon dating of charcoal found in the mound excavated at the tail. It still could have been any of the cultures though that visited the site for any period of time.

What is evident is that the mound was sacred and should have been known of throughout many different tribes and people in the region after its construction.

I still lean towards the Adena as the original builders if only for the 4 eclipses in a 116 year period. Even with the shorter lifespans of hunter gathers, those 4 could have feel within a timeframe of a grandfather, father and son collective of shamans. Again, knowledge of these cultures is fairly limited compared to more modern tribes. I also feel it is noteworthy that each culture died out during times of extended non-viewings. And that new cultures of mound builders replace them as eclipses become more frequent in relation to the site.

Admittedly, even this observation may be no more relative than names being found to connect using the Bible Code as self-proving.



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 09:58 AM
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Remember that in carbon dating, and human activities, things can change because of culture overlap and replacement. I'd have to look more into the dates and material (it's the end of the school year, so I am a bit busy) to see how things fit.

The hardest part of this kind of research is trying to find the cultural materials (specifically the tales) that will give us some sort of context. With the Caddos, some of their culture survived long enough for some decent records of them by Europeans. With my favorite group of Texas Indians, though, they vanished 3,000 years ago and the land itself is so harsh that wandering hunter-gatherers were the only ones who could live there. Consequently there's very scant material to tell us about them.

I'd like to continue this line for a bit (you've piqued my easily-piqued curiosity) and see what else can be found out about the people, the area, and the culture.

Historical (document) research can sometimes turn up things that add to what's been done with archaeology.

Although archeoastronomy is a very controversial sub-field, it is a very real one. The main problem is that some of its proponents are doing archaeology the old fashioned way -- looking at a site and then attributing things to what THEY think makes sense to them. Modern archaeology (having had a lot of egg on its face from the old style archaeology) simply measures and describes and doesn't go into the culture until some hard facts are known about it.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 09:36 PM
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Despite being fairly nearby, a 2.5 hour trip, I think I haven't visited the site nor even Fort Ancient which much closer.

There is typical mound, most likely Adena at Hueston Woods State Park, which is practically in my back yard that I have visited a few times. It is pretty much just a mound and a sign. However a short hike away there is a circular meadow in the middle of the forest that I strongly feel may have been the village of the people that did build the mound so many years ago.

Miami University Archeological Dept. has performed some minor excavation and did resort what they disturbed on that site. You may be able to contact some there for their review and catalogue of what they have found as well as some insight to the Serpent Mound via professional courtesy as you have more time.



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 08:44 AM
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So they are going to take another look closer look at things in Adams County
I'm interested in viewing the findings: "We expect to generate a new and detailed understanding of the serpent's internal structure," Romain wrote in seeking a permit from the Ohio Historical Society, which owns the site. "Our goal is to provide a series of graphic illustrations."

news.cincinnati.com...|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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I did not realize it was built around 1070. I wonder if the "white gods" of america have anything to do with this. Possibly Vikings?

I have always wondered around what time period the "white gods" could be from. It would make sense that they came as close to the spanish arrival because they claimed to think they were their gods returning so that would make me think that the gods had visited sometime within the last 500 years, just guessing.

I am not trying to discredit the native americans by any means, i just saw that date and it made me think of the Vikings and also the Templars. Since the 1070 date is + or - 70 years, it could have also been the Templars that influenced the builders.

That 1070 date +/- 70 years is very interesting.



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