Germany may consider Goldman action

.Report: Germany may consider Goldman action

news.yahoo.com

BERLIN – The German government may consider taking legal action in a case in which Goldman Sachs & Co. is accused of defrauding investors, a newspaper reported Saturday.

The U.S. government alleges Goldman Sachs sold mortgage investments without telling buyers they were crafted with input from a client who was betting on them failing.

Buyers included German bank IKB Deutsche Industriebank AG — an early victim of the financial crisis that was rescued by the state-owned KfW development bank among others

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:45:46 -0500 by MemoryShock]

It is one thing for America to have over strived its' resources...and another thing for its' banks to be accused of fraud to the extent that Fraud from an international level is cited.

I think it is sad...that in a time where patriotism is called upon, that the institutions that Americans rely are not only hedging their bets for their profits but are screwing over their international counterparts.

If this isn't a marker point for how bad international financials have gotten...I don't know what is....

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by MemoryShock


This mess really reminds me of the stupidity in the 1920s.

I guess humans never learn. One generation dies out and the next repeats the last generation's mistakes. Its almost like clockwork.

reply to post by MikeboydUS

This mess, in my opinion, is because the yahoos deigning to rule the world didn't (couldn't) factor in the possibility that the internet would increase communications and make their 'secret' dealings public. We still have a long way to go but shame on them for thinking that noone could ever trace their dealings.

Why have a rule of law when it is flaunted?

I'm disgusted...

reply to post by MemoryShock


H.G. Wells predicted a system like the Internet and some people think he was one of the yahoos behind Oz's curtains.

I think the issue might be their offspring didn't learn anything. Dynasties do tend to do that over time. Too much pride and lacking in honor or tradition.

I hope Germany does

I hope any bank in any country
that was defrauded sue the crap
out of them. 3 things will happen:

1) they will run out of money
2) they will lose their trust and nobody will do business with them
3) they will go bankrupt and dissolve

99 bottles of bank beer on the wall
99 bottles of bank beer
take one down pass it around
98 bottles of bank beer on the wall

In my humble opinion, these things don’t repeat themselves through stupidity, they repeat themselves through greed.

The fact is while many individual investors and weaker institutions get hurt, the Oligarchs and their institutions pick up everything at fire sale prices on the cheap when this happens.

They wait a cyclical amount of time, to not just regain people’s trust, from the last time, but to also allow people to build up equity in what they then are going to pick up for even cheaper, once the markets are manipulated into making those people who honestly labored to acquire those things to default.

This makes it even more profitable for them, and of course the political dog and pony show, of the left/right paradigm, eventually so distracts people, in spectacle and drama, no one is really paying attention to just what the bankers do.

In fact initially they spread some of that wealth around, even generously to get more small investors to jump in the pool.

Once that pool gets full enough, and lucrative enough, watch out, like the sharks they are, they move in to devour everything.

Sadly all these legal actions are, is a. the governments demanding a kickback on the scheme which they will keep for themselves, and not share with the actual injured parties, and b. offering up a token pound of flesh, so that the very same governments who turned their heads to the malfeasance can retain their own credibility.

The worst offenders come off richer than ever, a few on the upper mid level are tossed to the sacrificial fires to maintain the illusion of propriety and trust.

This is how the concentrated wealth of the world, ends up in a very few select hands.


[edit on 17/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Germany have alot of good ideas, like they are anti violence, and i agree with them on alot. Germany should start a campaign to to get things like boxing and ufc banned, we are in 21st century and the world still watches things like this.

Amazing, that humans call themselves adults and you people watch stuff like that.

Originally posted by MemoryShock

I think it is sad...that in a time where patriotism is called upon, that the institutions that Americans rely are not only hedging their bets for their profits but are screwing over their international counterparts.

I think that I remember that after the whole toxic fraud blow up in the open in september 2008 - a couple of urgent bailouts went later quietly to Deutsche Bank as temporary compensation for buying repackaged debt derivatives which were essentially worthless.

I remember reading in the European newspapers that the German financial institutions were furious with Wall Street because all of this.

So I think they have until now been trying to find a solution to all these toxic derivatives, but it's impossible to lift them out of the economy without crashing the whole house of cards.

Heck in some cases no one even know how much some of these derivatives are worth because they were repackaged multiple times with worthless crap.

I have a gut feeling that this is only the beginning - maybe NOW it's the time the whole house of cards will fall? - the final blow out!

If the Germans are going through with this - other Banks in other affacted countries who also bought this worthless crap from Wall Street will follow suit immediately because of Germany's action, for sure!

That would be the final end of the globalised economy - and the great extent of the whole fraud will finally be brought into the light & public eye - and everyone will really hate Goldman Sachs and the rest of Wall Street for killing the whole world's economy.

And when that is happening, I am afraid that some of this hate will also spill over as furious hate for America in general.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Chevalerous]

Whether they actually go through with it or not will be a different story altogether..

The Germans are still a bit touchy about doing anything big outside of the EU for fear of the whole NAZI thing being brought up..

But then again, they may have just gotten over it.. but it is a thing that will definitely be discussed in cabinet before making a move on it..

And if Germany go ahead with it.. Wait until the rest of the EU jumps in The governments of a quarter of the worlds economy could end up suing GoldmanSachs and banning them from trading in their markets..

Now that would be hilarious..

This is good and all but I wonder how much crap Duetsche Bank has thrown together and pawned off on less than informed investors from the USA? I am guessing a whole boat load as well. None of these banks are 100% innocent and have clean hands.

So IMO if Germany wants to set this precedent there may an assload of countries going after everyone after this.

Originally posted by Dermo


And if Germany go ahead with it.. Wait until the rest of the EU jumps in

The governments of a quarter of the worlds economy could end up suing GoldmanSachs and banning them from trading in their markets..

Now that would be hilarious..

Now THAT would be justice!

Who knows, maybe this time GS won't get away with it... though I'm not holding my breath. As has been mentioned elsewhere, I think this will end up with one or two sacrificial lambs been thrown to the wolves, a slap on the wrist, a fine, and business as usual!

[edit on 18/4/2010 by Dagar]

reply to post by GreenBicMan


With some very important differences my friend! - this was/is criminal fraud!

The whole gigantic fraud which finally brought down the phony world economy 2008 originated from fraudulent repackaged toxic derivatives and financial instruments from greedy American financial institutions on Wall Street who sold them to other Banks and financial institutions in the world -

Not the other way around!

Europe have much tougher financial regulations than the U.S and the European Banks have not constructed any fraudulent repackaged worthless financial instruments and then sold them to investors in the U.S.

The repackaged toxic derivatives went from Wall Street financial institutions and their "subsidiaries" in London to the European banks and financial intitutions who unknowingly bought the fraudulent repackaged toxic derivatives, which turned out to be more or less worthless.

I don't have any link or printed proof to show you, but I think that many of your urgent foreign bailouts went to foreign Banks and financial institutions in Dubai, Europe and Asia as temporary compensation to cover some of these worthless financial instrument from Wall Street.

These foreign Banks, Institutions and Governments wanted part of their money back until the G20 and the U.S Government came up with some solution to the problem to lift them out from the system without making more damage.

Ask Bernanke! he knows!

reply to post by Chevalerous


Well first of all it is civil

But second of all I must disagree my friend in this instance.

If you think for one minute that Deutsche Bank isn't on "the level" with Goldman and JP & Friends you are mistaken.

It's like our democrats and republicans.. They may seem split but all enjoy snorting off of the same silver platter if you know what I mean.

I am also very much hypothesizing that DBank is heavily involved in OTC Derivatives as well.

Originally posted by Chevalerous
I don't have any link or printed proof to show you, but I think that many of your urgent foreign bailouts went to foreign Banks and financial institutions in Dubai, Europe and Asia as temporary compensation to cover some of these worthless financial instrument from Wall Street.

You know...I have been getting a vibe similar to this as well...Interesting thought...

One of the things that has struck me in the wake of all of these scandals is that it may very well be a by product of the internet and the increased rate of information flow...the implication there is that those whom were confident in their behind the scenes manipulations assumed that retroactive reasoning would never occur.

What we potentially have here is people realizing that their memories aren't nearly as bad as pop culture myth had them believe...and the bigger picture is even bigger than the manipulators thought.

Hi Chevalerous -

You raise some very important little factoids on this topic -

And if any part of what you say is even remotely true, the American Tax payer is going to be in Deep DooDoo in paying off the irate European central bankers (they apparently take the installment plan: as long as they get it all eventually !) who don't like to be cheated by 'swinish, uncultured' American 'pig-dogs' -- least of all by what they derisively like to call the Wall Street ('pay me my bonus now) Crowd in NYC : 'Turko-Ukranian Ashkenazim' i.e. the Goldman Sachs persons and their ultra secret ilk...

So...if the US tax payer was already once forced (TARP bailout fashion in 2008/2009) to pay off an (initial?) installment (can you say BRIBE) to Credit Suisse and DeutscheBank and the Royal Bank of Scotland and Credit Lyonnaise and other European banks/holding companies back in 2008 (to the tune of IUSD $768 Billion) so they would not start naming names subpoena wise in Court - (& that gruesome amt was ONLY the TIP of the bribe/iceberg) then I suppose we would have to ask : How much MORE (ach !! ) will these European Banks demand (pay or we'll name names and more names) from the US Taxpayer in 2010

- i.e. to make up for the AIG type fraudulantly 'rated' Mortgage Backed based ('toxic') Securities ( oh very well, worthless paper) which was foisted upon them fraudulantly as Triple AAA rated (when they were really worthless FFF's) perpetrated by the Paulson-Goldman Sachs Cartel (who are after all, related to AIG by blood, as it were) but also, CitiGroup, Bank of America, JP Morgan-Chase etal. ?

I mean, after all, (according to their own warped Weltanschauung) why should Goldman-Sachs be forced pay a single sheckel when they can get their string pulling cronies in the Fed & the US Govt and in the Treasury to get the overworked (and under-focussed) American Taxpayer Slob to pay for their crimes against Humanity - while they give $5 Billion in bonuses to their inner 'soykel' (or as the Germans like to chant about them lately, quoting Trito-Isaiah--oddly, for them--I mean, of all people:

('In that Day you will Milk the Blood of the Gentiles...')

Maybe WWII is not quite over, at least in some people's minds...but Germany is not about to roll over and play dead and let Goldman and Co. get away with a single Reichs-Mark., if you ask me !

the whole board of directors and all the department heads/team leadership at Goldman Sachs should be sued on criminal & fraud charges by the soverign state of Germany.


then the USA Treas & controlling agencies like the SEC should undertake RICO KingPin prosecution on those samr cabal of crooks & swindlers...
Felony charges on each & every one of them---no skating out of accountability by the shareholders or corporation treasury paying a fine to keep their sociopathic asses out of ther big-house (no club Fed for these traitors/saboteurs)

after all they schemed and orchestrated a financial/fiscal pearl-habor -or-911-event on the American government and citizens.
and cauised Trillions in damage, lost lives & modest fortunes...
but they were aided by the FederalReserve itself --->>byebye Bernanke
(IFPresident Øbama even has 1 hair on his behind)

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

Well first of all it is civil

But second of all I must disagree my friend in this instance.

If you think for one minute that Deutsche Bank isn't on "the level" with Goldman and JP & Friends you are mistaken.

It's like our democrats and republicans.. They may seem split but all enjoy snorting off of the same silver platter if you know what I mean.

I am also very much hypothesizing that DBank is heavily involved in OTC Derivatives as well.

Aha! but I am talking about the bigger picture here - the main reason which started the 'Chain Reaction' and all this mess for Europe and the rest of the world 2008 - was all these worthless toxic Wall Street Credit Default Swaps of repackaged subprime and other mortgages sold in tranches with fraudulent AAA ratings - which were then sold to the rest of the world as healthy financial instruments by financial institution on Wall Street.

And all of wall Street were involved in this scam - Lehman was one of these firms - before they ended up in Europe and elsewhere they had been repackaged multiple times at Wall Street institution and Moody's, S&P and Fitch's gave the repackaged toxic worthless CD Swaps crazily high AAA ratings before they got exported and sold to Europe and the rest of the world.

So before they ended up in the rest of the world they were maybe constructed at Goldman and then sold further down the line to other financial firms as Bear&Stern, Lehman & others where they were repackaged and sold back to Goldman and JPMORGAN who probaly sold the contracts further with phony AAA ratings? - or something like that?

Sure! Deutsche Bank ain't no saints, but at least they didn't sell these repackaged toxic and fraudulent CDS to Wall Street - and they certainly did not start this chain reaction 2008 which brought down the world's financial system - that was the greedy work of fraudulent Wall Street financial institutions.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by Chevalerous


I really don't know personally, nor do many, but if you believe in the international banking cartel I would imagine these guys talk to each other quite a bit on MSN Messenger if you know what i mean.

I do actually have a really good book called "The Quants" by Scott Patterson that goes into detail quite a bit about the "genius" behind most of these investment banks. It does go into detail about DBank as well, but I do not remember all the details.

You can find this on the internet in a EBook like "D-Bo" would if you know what I mean. It is an excellent book actually if you are interested in the genius behind some of these "scams". As well it details about the mess these geniuses have gotten us into in the past (1980's). It goes up till 2008 as well.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by GreenBicMan]

[edit on 18-4-2010 by GreenBicMan]

I can't verify if this is correct, but this is said to be the numbers of the bailout via AIG.


These are some of the foreign Banks and Institution which got paid through AIG:


Société Générale $11.90 billion

Deutsche Bank $11.80 billion

Barclays $8.50 billion

UBS $5.00 billion

BNP Paribas $4.90 billion

HSBC $3.50 billion

Calyon $2.30 billion

Dresdner $2.20 billion

DZ Bank $1.70 billion

Bank of Montreal $1.10 billion

Rabobank $0.80 billion

Royal Bank of Scotland $0.70 billion

KFW $0.50 billion

Credit Suisse $0.40 billion

Santander $0.30 billion

Paloma $0.20 billion

Citadel $0.20 billion

Danske $0.20 billion

Reconstruction Finance Corp $0.20 billion


And apparently $13 billion went to Goldman Sachs.


@ GreenBicMan! thanks for the book recommendation!


[edit on 18-4-2010 by Chevalerous]