Can Africans Govern Themselves In The Modern World?

Can Africans Govern Themselves In The Modern World?

My simple answer is no.
Call me racist, I do not care.

reply to post by joey_hv

BLACKS CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT GOVERN THEMSELVES.

Self determination is a human right , if you are against them governing themselves you are not only violating their HUMAN rights you are suggesting someone else should.

EVERY TIME THEY TRY IT FAILS.

All races have failed. Exactly what is your definition of failure , define it. Rome rose and fell , The Qin empire rose and fell , The Holy Roman Empire rose and fell , The British Empire rose and fell , all civilizations fail at some point. Corruption is not particular to blacks.

THEY LOOK AT ENRICHING THEMSELVES AND NOT THE BETTERMENT OF THEIR COUNTRY.

By "they" you must also mean , bush , rockerfeller , rothschild , warburger , cheney , rumsfeld , the saudis , goldman sachs , mao , kim jong il etc , etc. There's no racial monopoly on greed.

NO RACISM INVOLVED HERE JUST FACTS.

No those are not facts those are opinions and very skewed ones at that. Here are some facts of good black leaders , from the ancient , middle ages to the modern-
Narmer-Khemet ,
Thutmose III-Khemet ,
Seti I-Khemet ,
Mansa Musa of Timbuktu ,
Tewodros I-Ethiopia ,
Toussaint Louverture -Haiti ,
Sojourner Truth-America ,
Harriet Tubman-America ,
Menelik II-Ethiopia ,
Martin Luther King Jr-America ,
Desmond Tutu-South Africa ,
Sir Arthur Lewis-St.Lucia ,
Errol Walton Barrow-Barbados ,
Clement Payne-Trinidad.

reply to post by De La Valletta
and yet...everything they govern is a disaster.

Originally posted by joey_hv
and yet...everything they govern is a disaster.

Several members have pointed out to you the many African countries run by Africans that are successful and even in these tough global conditions are still growing and prospering - and still you make general statements like the above?

As a proud African I take offence to your rascist and ignorant tone!

reply to post by joey_hv

BLACKS CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT GOVERN THEMSELVES.

EVERY TIME THEY TRY IT FAILS.

Ok. Let's consider that. Let us say, hypothetically, that you are correct.

What exactly do you propose be done about it?

Originally posted by joey_hv

It is time to stop making excuses and be honest with eachother. Show me an example of a black self govrning success and I will change my point of view and admit I am wrong.

I'll give you more than one:

Barbados has had 6 black prime ministers and 1 white prime minister. 90% of the population is black. Life expectancy is 74 years. They have a 99.7% literacy rate. They are ranked 45th in GDP in the world. Would you consider this nation able to govern itself? I would think so.

The Bahamas is 86% black with a black prime minister. They have a life expectancy of 70 years. They have a literacy rate of 98%. They are ranked #32 in the world in GDP. I think they are doing just fine governing themselves as well.

Trinidad and Tobago is another example. They have the 37th largest GDP. Life expectancy is 68 years. 98.7% literacy rate.

Another successful Caribbean nation is Antigua and Barbuda(91% black).

Now I'll move on to the African region, which of course has a lot more problems than the Caribbean region, but there are certainly some success stories.

Botswana has one of the fastest growing economies in the world. It was one of the poorest countries in the world before it became an independent nation. From 1966 to now, it has averaged 9% economic growth yearly. They have a stable government with free and fair elections. According to Transparency International, it is the least corrupt nation in Africa and ranks similarly to Portugal and South Korea.

Is that good enough for you?

reply to post by Bosko




So it does mean that some of these black countries actually beat some white countries doesn't. The Bajan Brain drain has been documented via the University of the West indies. There is no evidence of an American brain drain

Well Tanzania outperforms Iceland in terms of GDP and a racist would make something of that seeing that Iceland is part of the European landmass.

South Korea also outperfoms many European countries and please do not get me started on Japan and China (the next superpower).

Here is my source

en.wikipedia.org...


Sorry but I feel that there is a certain ignorance in terms of arguements or not knowing all of the facts. THis is the reason why my first post mentioned that this was an after dinner diuscussion at a black table because There is genuine black achievement to celebrate that gives further context to the original OP.






[edit on 19-4-2010 by Tiger5]

reply to post by Bosko
oh, you mean the BRITISH West Indies?
BBAAAWAAAHHHAAA!!!!

Well looking at history we must ask whether whites can govern themselves.

Hitler

Stalin,

Bush

Nixon

The Clowns in Enron
The Banking system in America

The fraudsters at Goldman Sachs

The Pedophilia cases coming to light in

The Banking system

White barbarity is also know in the Concentration camps all over the world

Various indian Masacres.

Teaching the Indians Scalping

Rape and sexual assualt of most white people is also done by Those white people.

General clive of India etc

I am not a racist I like vanilla Ice Cream, Eminem, Have dated white girls, Play Golf. Belive Led Zep are Brilliant and like several white actors and have white friends.

This was another B/S racist OP. Has Knowledge really been extended? Nope Has ignorance been denied yes against the OP. Those who opposed the OP gave reasonable responses and cited sources. THere are also black countries that outperfom white countriers in terms of GOP. However we can value the mineral wealth extracted in terms of the products that are produced.

I am sorry that I even participated in this dog and pony show.



[edit on 19-4-2010 by Tiger5]

reply to post by joey_hv


Sorry I'm not sure what is funny there. Please elaborate... Are you saying those nations are not self governing? If so, then you would be mistaken. They are all self governed, and are made up of a majority of black people. Those same black people that you believe are incapable of governing themselves.

Please, instead of making ridiculous posts like that one, explain why what I posted is humorous to you.

reply to post by Tiger5


Great points. And you're right, it's not worth posting in this thread to be honest. The OP has been proven wrong and yet he still won't accept it. There's not much else you can do really.

This is going to be very controversial to some people and I dont mean to offend. I dont mean this in a racist way, it is merely my observation which may conflict with the politically correct in here.

I think the white countries in the world (by this I mean, EU, US, Australia etc) have a much more advanced and intelligent attitude towards life, work and one another. This higher level of intelligence (in terms of the decisions made that affect society) allow us to advance to levels of wellbeing that just arent possible with the African mentality. This also applies for middle eastern countries although slightly less drastically. Now I am not saying that a black man is not as intelligent as a white man. A black man born in the UK for example will be equally intelligent as his white friend. It has nothing to do with skin colour, but rather the self destructive culture and cumilative decisions of the black race. This extends throughout history. I'll give you an example. The british peacekeeping force installed a water purifying system in Sudan. This would supply people with clean water necessary to survive. It survived about 2 weeks before the village elders decided they could use the metal and melt it down. Now that is quite a local example but I think it explains the african mentality there very well and is almost a metaphor for their political system.

The african people (not skin colour - their culture, beliefs, values and morals) are not advanced enough to live as people do in the US/EU. Without trying to be offensive, it is like trying to teach a child astro-physics. Again, I dont want people to misinterpret this post, I am not claiming white superiority on a race level, but on a cultural and ethical level. Their culture is incapable of developing, because it has so many flaws which are holding it back.

Ok thats my opinion, here come the flamers.............

Originally posted by Pryde87
I think the white countries in the world (by this I mean, EU, US, Australia etc)

Australia is a "white country?" Tough call since the British all but wiped out the aboriginal population when they invaded it - no blacks left to run it!

Originally posted by Pryde87
The african people (not skin colour - their culture, beliefs, values and morals) are not advanced enough to live as people do in the US/EU

Who/what qualified you to make such general BS statements? When last did you visit an African city first hand instead of trusting everything you see on your TV screen?

reply to post by Tiger5


Very good points, but in reality, this seems to imply, should we ever give our power away and allow others to lead us, even elect a king? Or should we be self governing, with no need for money, give and take, high education and volunteering, guilds for every craft and science exploration, art and talent imaginable, open and transparent, with rotating shifts of adults, all taking their part, in some very reduced village management roles, in teams, that have to agree and get along, like jury duty?

I actually don't endorse tribalism or pockets of those not being upgraded by clean technology, nor do I endorse, elite rule by the corporate minority, I kind of endorse something else, that we should all start to think of. But it has nothing whatsoever to do with eugenics race issues. The 20th century had IQs raised with increased standards of living. This is just one link and it doesnt show the other reasearch I found, but one point here I will quote:
en.wikipedia.org...

In other words, half of the children of 1932 would be classified as having borderline mental retardation or worse during 1997

www.gnxp.com...

Its related to industrial countries, increases in each decade. Keeping people dumbed down. Knowledge is meant to be shared. Self governing is what people do with information.

reply to post by Ninja T. Penguin


Yes, Australia is a white country. The majority of people there are white. Fact.

Nobody qualified me to have my opinion. Who qualified you to have yours?

Why dont you add something to the debate instead of mindless comments, tell me what you believe why dont you.

reply to post by joey_hv

Can Africans Govern Themselves In The Modern World?

...here is the disclaimer:
Neither I nor anyone in my immediate family is racist. I am half Mexican half Caucasian and have many black friends and date blacks without any problems.

I recently read an article that made me start looking further into this subject and considering the way Obama is governing us into the third world I am starting to believe that the writer may be right.

Ok...

All the other BS aside...president Obama is not African.

So your premise is not whether "Africans" can govern without corruption etc., but rather whether people of color regardless of nationality can govern themselves?

Despite your disclaimer that seems a rather ignorant question.

The African continent has serious issues politically and there are many answers to the question of why...

A Tribally rooted culture and national borders that don't correspond with those tribal distributions causing fiercly partisan patronage?

Natural resources that are unusually singular, concentrated and sequestered creating a fertile structure for corruption.

Draughts and famines and an advancing desert.

A quick retreat by colonial powers and the natural dictatorships that step into a power vaccuum.

Etc. etc. none of which a correlated to skin pigmentation...

It's very telling that after me and other people have put the examples of bad leadership by blacks , especially Africans into context , by being objective about the analysis instead of jumping off into racist diatribe , you continue to hold fast. Then after providing examples of GOOD black leadership and black nations that are doing better than most asian and european nations, you refuse to digest these self evident facts and continue to trumpet the fallacy that blacks cannot lead themselves and lead well. It seems many of you have been going to your KKK rallies and reading your Mein Kampf. Again why are so many of you dismissing the examples of good black leadership and countries to continue with this fallacy of an argument , is it you can't stand to have your superiority complex shattered? No black leader or country can ever amount to anything in your eyesights , is that what you're saying? It's a shame so many of you are too cowardly to even admit , from the views and opinions you harbor that you are racist.

@ Pryde87
So , the actions of a few coo-coo old men who probably smoke too much Hashish or chewed too much khat in the afternoon , gives you the right to generalize and bastardize the whole continent and race , for the actions of a few. Then by that criteria we can say whites are racist , imperious , exploitive , genocidal maniacs , narcissist crooks in sheep's clothing. Ivan the Terrible , Hittler and Stallin , Benito Musolini , Al Capone , Presscot Bush , George Bush 1 and 2 are just some of the displays that can be seen in the Museum of Dictatorship and Psychopathic Criminals.

@ maybereal11

All the other BS aside...president Obama is not African.

I brought this up earlier too , Barry O was raised mostly by his white american mother and an indonesian muslim stepfather , then later by his maternal grand-parents in the usa , how then can they justify blaming African culture for this guy's failings. His African , Kenyan father had little contact and input in Obama's life. If anything it'd have to be placed at the foot of American and Indonesian culture.

reply to post by De La Valletta
Hiya DLV, you've made some educated and reasonable points in this sorry thread. I'd say we share some common ground here. At the same time, it's important to point out that the OP is trolling. He's enjoying the responses. He doesn't appear to have the balls to come out and be honest about his perspective. He relies on weasel words, suggestions and innuendo...basically gossip.

In my experience, it's better to leave the thread and let it die. Ignoring trolls makes far more of an impression on them than debating them.

Governor Aycock on "the negro problem"
Speech to the North Carolina Society, Baltimore, December 18, 1903, in R. D. W. Connor and Clarence Hamilton Poe, eds., The Life and Speeches of Charles Brantley Aycock (Garden City, New York: Doubleday, Page & Company, 1912), pp. 161–163.

I am proud of my State… because there we have solved the negro problem.… We have taken him out of politics and have thereby secured good government under any party and laid foundations for the future development of both races. We have secured peace, and rendered prosperity a certainty.

I am inclined to give to you our solution of this problem. It is, first, as far as possible under the Fifteenth Amendment to disfranchise him; after that let him alone, quit writing about him; quit talking about him, quit making him “the white man’s burden,” let him “tote his own skillet”; quit coddling him, let him learn that no man, no race, ever got anything worth the having that he did not himself earn; that character is the outcome of sacrifice and worth is the result of toil; that whatever his future may be, the present has in it for him nothing that is not the product of industry, thrift, obedience to law, and uprightness; that he cannot, by resolution of council or league, accomplish anything; that he can do much by work; that violence may gratify his passions but it cannot accomplish his ambitions; that he may eat rarely of the cooking of equality, but he will always find when he does that “there is death in the pot.” Let the negro learn once for all that there is unending separation of the races, that the two peoples may develop side by side to the fullest but that they cannot intermingle; let the white man determine that no man shall by act or thought or speech cross this line, and the race problem will be at an end.

These things are not said in enmity to the negro but in regard for him. He constitutes one third of the population of my State: he has always been my personal friend; as a lawyer I have often defended him, and as Governor I have frequently protected him. But there flows in my veins the blood of the dominant race; that race that has conquered the earth and seeks out the mysteries of the heights and depths. If manifest destiny leads to the seizure of Panama, it is certain that it likewise leads to the dominance of the Caucasian. When the negro recognizes this fact we shall have peace and good will between the races.

But I would not have the white people forget their duty to the negro. We must seek the truth and pursue it. We owe an obligation to “the man in black”; we brought him here; he served us well; he is patient and teachable. We owe him gratitude; above all we owe him justice. We cannot forget his fidelity and we ought not to magnify his faults; we cannot change his color, neither can we ignore his service. No individual ever “rose on stepping stones of dead” others “to higher things,” and no people can. We must rise by ourselves, we must execute judgment in righteousness; we must educate not only ourselves but see to it that the negro has an opportunity for education. www.learnnc.org...

[edit on 19-4-2010 by joey_hv]