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Can Africans Govern Themselves In The Modern World?

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posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 

American indians were enslaved side by side with blacks yet they seem to govern their reservations and affairs just fine. we do not hear of widespread corruption among their populace. We also don't see them chopping eachother up with machetes do we? same experience vastly different results.

In the early days of slavery, indigenous peoples of the Americas and Africans were enslaved together. Sometimes, African slaves escaped to Native American villages on various parts of the American continent, as described in the book "Africans and Native Americans : The Language of Race and the Evolution of Red-Black Peoples". www.colorq.org...


It is time to stop making excuses and be honest with eachother. Show me an example of a black self govrning success and I will change my point of view and admit I am wrong.

(and to those of you pulling the race card, it is not going to work here. I am not racist and neither is the black man that wrote the article in the OP)




posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by De La Valletta
 
Yes yes, we all know the history of Haiti. It is everybody elses fault and not their own.
You sir are a racist, plain and simple. You feel that blacks need an excuse for being failures at governing, that they should not be held to the same standards as other races because of how they were treated. I feel that all races were created equal and all races have a chance to succeed in life.
Just some races have proven that they are not good at governing, some are not good at being governed, some need kings and queens, some need complete freedom...etc
it is just the way the world is.
deal with it, face the facts.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:08 AM
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This is just a reiteration of what others have said, but whether they can govern in the way some would like them to or whether they cannot or do not, is none of our business.

And in answer to your question "should we have left them in their huts with dirt floors", the answer is yes. We should.

I agree to provide them with water and food is a noble humane effort, but to extend further than that, into their politics and way of life, is out of line, and invasive.

I do favor "teaching", and helping them to accept that human life is valuable.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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Why? Because most African nations were not ready for independence, even the United Nations has admitted that it's decolonization program was a mistake and led to premature independence.

According to the timetable set by the various European colonial powers, most colonies were due to gain gradual independence and then eventually be offered either complete independence or direct integration as a province of the mother country (as the French and Dutch are currently doing with their remaining colonies). The thing is that this was not supposed to happen until the 1980s and 1990s at the earliest. Instead, they got full independence in the 1950s and 1960s so obviously they are screwed up.


^ colonial empires still exist.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by ChrisF231]



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 
it is a fine line, when does help end and meddling begin?
maybe we thought we were helping by modernizing them, giving them electricity and making their life easier?



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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I like the way people talk about how "we" should "help" them.
Who is "we"? Each of us personally? Our governments? Our business elite; ie. the ones with the most money?

Just who is we? We, the average citizen have next to no potential for influence; even if we volunteer for an NGO in comparison to the global businesses that are in the process of taking over the rape of Africa from the dictators and colonialists that proceeded them.

Who among us has any control over the global giants of industry? None, I am sure. They are going to do what they want unless and until the people of the world take back some kind of authority.

Nice words but I don't see that happening any time soon. I haven't seen anyone with a strategy to bring about some sort of compassionate rule of the world yet, which is what needs to happen.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:38 AM
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I really enjoy articles like these. At first I thought blatant racism but then I researched the author of the article a little bit and found him to be just your basic left wing liberal who idealizes his view of life while detesting his heritage.

You can see this from his published articles, just search "Ozodi Thomas Osuji" and you will see what I am talking about.

What I find most appealing to this article is many American educated youth just think Africa is a country and not a continent. He plays on this ignorance among our youth. The headline of his article should have been something like "Can Kenyans Govern themselves..." or "Can Congolese Govern themselves...".

Where the author is wrong in lumping a continent together and loses his focus, you just need to look at northern Africa.

Egypt has had problems, but it is fully functional democracy.

Libya has a dictator, whether you like him or not, that has been in place for over 40 years.

Morocco has a king in place but an elected Parliament. Morocco has an interesting resent political history in that an opposing party took control of the government in an election. No real problems here.

There is a religious war going on in parts of Africa, but these are not even mentioned within the article. Just an oversight by the author, as he included Haiti on his African article.

If he would have stated "Can Black's Govern themselves..." his thought process would have been complete, but then racism is clearly apparent. We can't have this in our politically correct world. To think or say anything else is just ... wrong.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by hinky
 

I believe he makes his point quite clear. He believes, as do I, that blacks cannot govern themselves.
His words:

"Give a black man a leadership opportunity and instead of working his black ass off for his people all he thinks is about enriching his immediate family at the expense of the public. "




[edit on 18-4-2010 by joey_hv]



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by joey_hv
 

So then a physically , emotionally , neglected , sexually abused child or adult should have no excuse? But they , do such violation leaves deep scars on so many levels , sometimes they never fully recover. Now you come here saying their not fit to lead themselves is ludicrous , even more emotional abuse and I interpret as more meddling , who's going to lead them then , the white man , like you who thinks he's superior cuz they can't lead thus eventually racism. If they wanted that let them say it and choose that. To call me racist is far from the truth and if you had read my posts you'd see nowhere did I condone bad leadership in black societies. Just that I realize the crap they went through for 400 years is not going to go away anytime soon especially with racism existing beneath the surface of the world for blacks and more meddling and insults isn't going to help. You forget the law of physics ; action / reaction.

The time for meddling came and went when the world watched as the Rwandan genocide occurred , fomented by what ?, "White leadership". The Belgians using divide and conquer set the Tutsi up over the Hutu. Why? The Tutsi although they were clearly black had more caucasian features , so they chose the tutsi over the hutu. They encouraged the tutsi to commit atrocities against their brethren on this fallacy of racism within a race. The even more terrible act was that when the Belgians left , they put the Hutus in charge , switching the game . Could These immaculate white leaders not have foreseen the chaos this would create?



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by expat2368
Show me a country run by a black leader and I will show you a disaster.


Botswana? Namibia? South Africa? Morocco? Egypt & Libya for that matter? Politics aside there are many success stories that aren't newsworthy on your side of the water. From the above statement am I right in thinking the US is now a disaster?



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by wiseone11
 

In terms of human development index there's Barbados ranked above most of Eastern Europe and Malta and in the same bracket as The United Arab Emirates , whoa. It's also the third in the Americas , with Canada first , America second and Barbados third. Then theirs Antigua and Barbuda above Latvia , Argentina , Uraguay etc. The Bahamas ranking above Libya , venezuela , saudi Arabia etc.

If you're looking for high GDP then that goes to Nigeria , but with a low human development index , they need to develop their infrastructure and take better care of their people. I can argue that these caribbean nations have an advantage over their unfortunate african brothers in that they have homogeneous societies and languages that are not beset by tribalism which is complex and causes a lot of problems in africa . There isn't any big "religious" upheavals in The Caribbean as you have with Africa and Islam , which has slaughtered and enslaved many , and destroyed indigenous cultures even to this day , replacing them with Sharia law and islamic fundamentalism. Sudan , Nigeria and Ethiopia are examples.These caribbean islands are relatively poor in resources and strategic value , so they were mostly left alone(in times of war and oppression beauty is a curse). With few resources other than Sugar they've wisely developed their human resources , investing in education and developing their financial and tourism sectors. The Americas is also a relatively stable part of the world compared to africa , asia and eastern europe.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by De La Valletta
reply to post by joey_hv
 

So then a physically , emotionally , neglected , sexually abused child or adult should have no excuse?
Again you cmpare the black person to a child. Would you like me to research and show you examples of people that suffered similiar atrocities and succeeded or can we just agree that there is plenty of examples out there?

You seem to believe that the evil white man convinced one innocent black tribe to attack another as if blacks being as children, not knowing right from wrong, could not or would not say "no"

why do you insist to babify an entire race?



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Ninja T. Penguin

Originally posted by expat2368
Show me a country run by a black leader and I will show you a disaster.


Botswana? Namibia? South Africa? Morocco? Egypt & Libya for that matter? Politics aside there are many success stories that aren't newsworthy on your side of the water. From the above statement am I right in thinking the US is now a disaster?
I can answer that,
yes, headed that way because of our failure of a president.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by joey_hv
reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 
it is a fine line, when does help end and meddling begin?
maybe we thought we were helping by modernizing them, giving them electricity and making their life easier?


If we have done this to the degree that it has been "life-changing" for them, and has altered their culture, then I am unaware of it.

I believe most of our efforts have been towards clean water, food, medical care, and education.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by joey_hv

Originally posted by Ninja T. Penguin

Originally posted by expat2368
Show me a country run by a black leader and I will show you a disaster.


Botswana? Namibia? South Africa? Morocco? Egypt & Libya for that matter? Politics aside there are many success stories that aren't newsworthy on your side of the water. From the above statement am I right in thinking the US is now a disaster?
I can answer that,
yes, headed that way because of our failure of a president.


Dealing with a lot of problems inherited from a series of white man presidents... a bit unfair to put ALL of the blame on his shoulders don't u think?



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by De La Valletta
 


Excellent post.

My only point with development is that investing in Humans is can be a drain as many parts of the Carribean have suffered a net brain drain to the developed countries since the 1950s.

I am one such example.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by joey_hv
 

Joey , you're being woefully ignorant. I used child as a simile or metaphor for the piont in time of the history of most enslaved blacks , their nations were'nt even "born" yet. You can't argue that a nation born into these kinds of abuses , not given the time to heal and the right nurture will eventually end up a failed state. IMF and Big Corpa don't help.

Yes they could have said no and I believe many did , but the Belgians pushed their agenda (divide and conquer) upon these people. They are the ones who encouraged that actively. Being the "civilized immaculate white leader" with more culture , morals and technology , why didn't they say no , we will not exploit our fellow man? Where were they when the chickens came home to roost , for this policy , what army did they send , what diplomat did they send to clear up that ethnic mess they created? None! You place full blame upon these black countries when it should only be partial blame just as much as European colonialism. Your lofty "white leadership" is totally blameless after raping africa and africans for 400 years and counting, isn't it? You ignore consequences.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:55 PM
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Look Africa are quite welcome to govern themselves and keep their culture. But just don't expect the rest of the world to pay for it.

Billions and billions of dollars donated by individuals through aid agencies for over 40 solid years. . Not to mention the untold billions donated in foreign aid by governments. And still no positive long term results. Not LOANS but DONATIONS. FREE MONEY that doesn't have to be paid back. Trillions of it.

I mean, come on. When will it all end? We are now being threatened with an International Tax to give to ....you guessed it ...AFRICA. So the rest of the world has to pay for Africas problems of bad leadership choices and rife corruption?
I don't think so.

Yeah, let them govern themselves. But let them also take responsibility for themselves and their people and don't expect the rest of the world to pay. If they can do that, then they can honestly say that they are up to world standards and can govern themselves in a modern world.

And O.P if you had've said that Africans deserve to live in huts with dirt floors and not be included into the modern world, people would still have called you a racist for that viewpoint too.
You can't win in subjects like this because personal responsibility and owning our actions are only something that white people are expected to do. The same standards don't apply to anyone else.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by joey_hv
 



I can answer that, yes, headed that way because of our failure of a president.


You do know that Barry is half white do you? Also , he's a "Made in America" production. Can't you guy's raise children right any more , you keep pumping out pathological liers , kleptomaniacs , psychopaths , pimps and pervs , drug lords , bloodthirsty , narcissist , greedy people , of caucasian ancestry who end up where ; in Government , Hollywood or Big Business. This was all before B.H.O(Obama). America , u.s.a took a slide in the sixties. I have only one beef with B.O and that is he promised change , but didn't explain change for the worst. I don't participate in the bread and circus that are elections , I usually run for myself , all politicians are corrupt even the ones that aren't and they make false promises , with the entitlements of government I could do a better job taking care of my self and family than they could. So could others.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by De La Valletta
reply to post by joey_hv
 



I can answer that, yes, headed that way because of our failure of a president.

I have only one beef with B.O and that is he promised change , but didn't explain change for the worst.....with the entitlements of government I could do a better job taking care of my self and family than they could. So could others.

well...we agree on something.






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