Ghosts in spiritual terms... a much needed discussion.

reply to post by highlyoriginal



Thanks for posting this interesting topic Highly Original.

Yes, I do believe in ghosts for they are simply manifestations of energy, organic energy inherent in all of our bodies and living things.

My Recent experience:

The other night in the pitch dark, I was heading upstairs to go to bed. Upon my reaching the last step , and much to my surprise, a golf ball sized luminescent orb shot past from right to left in the blink of an eye.
It was a dim gray blue color, and about as bright as a firefly.

I live in a very quiet suburban area, and no cars or traffic were even nearby to have been headlights or anything of that nature.

I have also seen the image of a woman wearing a shaw, with her hair up in a bun in my home as well.

I thought at first glance that it was my wife going to the kitchen for a drink of water, but I soon realized that I heard no sound and/or the refrigerator door didn't open. And also that my wife was asleep upstairs !

Also, upon first moving into our house. I saw several black shadows, one of which stood at the foot of the bed. Until I tried to kick it and it vanished !!


I am not scared of ghosts !! Especially when I am the one making the mortgage payments !


Now back to some of your questions OP.

As far as spirits drawing energy to appear.

First of all, not all energy falls into the visible spectrum of light and in fact, visible light is only about 2% of the entire energy spectrum.

But energy can be stored and later converted/transformed to visible light.

For example: Look at how a firefly creates visible light through a chemical conversion process in it's body.

So a spirit, who exists at a lower vibrational level, and invisible, in order to present itself to us in the visible spectrum in order for us to see , it requires additional external energy of a higher frequency than it can generate by itself.

This is why we are seeing batteries being depleted while in the presence of ghosts.

Think of a light bulb or LED for that matter, all emit light ONLY after a source of higher energy is provided in which to convert that energy from a battery for example to light energy.

You had said:

By doing so they wouldn't draw energy from their surroundings, they would disperse energy - so all of those paranormal shows and investigators out there really should be searching for dispersal of energy, not the drawing of it.

And the electromagnetic field meters ARE indeed measuring the energy emissions of the entities. And once again, The dying batteries are an indication that the energy IS being absorbed by something external to the device in which it was intended.

All in all I believe that ghosts, are simply the electromagnetic life energy that all living things possess, disembodied.

The same energy allowing your brain to perceive and interpret the images of text conveyed to it by your eyes on this page.

Simply look at how our brain and nervous system communicate with one another using electronic impulses of ENERGY.

I have also posted here on ATS my hypothesis of the soul as it pertains to medical science. We all know that the clinical definition of Death is lack of brain activity , or brainwaves.

Brainwaves, as with all WAVEs have an amplitude(strength) and frequency.

They are a scientifically and electrically measurable form of energy that ceases to exist in the body when we die.

Plain and Simple.

Once an individual "dies" that energy becomes part of the nonvisible spectrum of electromagnetic energy. Just like radio waves or the microwave energy entering and exiting your cell phone.

I also feel that this is why the "GhostBox" phenomenon is scientifically plausible.

For Radio waves are at the lower wavelength and subsequent energy level end of the electromagnetic energy spectrum where I feel ghosts and/ or spirits exist.

I feel that we as souls have the option or choice to be recycled, or reincarnated to another body. As well as settling all business before moving on.

I enjoy watching these paranormal shows where psychics communicate with the dead to solve murders and missing persons cases.

Two psychics in communication with a recently murdered teen, actually lead police lead to the arrest of serial killer John Wayne Gacy.

The dead are simply looking to resolve their untimely passing before they move on.

It is unfinished business, and I would likely under the same circumstances do the same.


And thanks OP for posting another interesting topic here on ATS !


Thats what I come to ATS for !!!


Below is an graphical representation of the entire electromagnetic energy spectrum.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9e40f0f26d0f.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 18-4-2010 by nh_ee]

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Thank you for your comments and I'm grateful you perservered through what I later realised were my complicated posts and many spelling and other mistakes. Felt awake when I wrote them, but realise now I was actually badly sleep-lagged

I know very little about the man I saw, other than what his mother in law said. But if appearances are anything to judge by, I always felt him to be what we'd term ' a nice sort of person'. (this is before the second memories emerged 20-plus years later). He just had that look about him. If you were lost in a strange city, or forced to seek help or advice from a stranger, then he's the sort of person you'd look for and would approach

His mother in law said they (meaning her daughter and deceased son in law) had worked to a plan for years and had wanted everything to be 'just right' before they married and began a family. They wanted to be at a certain point in their careers and had their minds set on a specific type of home and inclusions within a particular area, all of which they'd apparently achieved. He must have died during the early months of his wife's pregnancy, so the poignancy is certainly present

I suspect as you do and feel that the circumstances of his death (i.e., the culmination of his dreams and hard work, aligned with the peculiar manner of death) might have resulted in his failure to realise or accept that he was dead

Then, there's the macabre detail provided by his mother in law, re: his organs still being with the laboratory. So, when he appeared before me, the cause of his death had still not been determined. I didn't pursue the issue. In fact, I was shocked that she could be so matter of fact about it. I don't know what procedures re: burial are followed in such cases. Is the person buried, or is a memorial-service held in lieu, with the body remaining at the coroner's until the cause of death has been established ? And would/could any of this influence the progress or not of the soul or spirit -- taking into account, perhaps, of religious beliefs held by the deceased ?

As an aside -- I appreciate that those who for whatever reason dismiss the existence of what we call ghosts -- in addition to those who are convinced that after death we all vanish into oblivion or perhaps Heaven/Hell, etc. --- will find this discussion to be nonsensical. However, in light of claims by organ-recipients that aspects of themselves have been and are being influenced by their donor, for example, I believe the whole area of after-death states to be far more pertinent (to us, all of whom will die) than, say, speculation about the possible intentions of space-aliens or 'ruling elites'

This next was featured in a widely-read Australian women's magazine. Somewhere down in the basement and inside a book (don't know which) is the original article, which I'd ripped out.

It was a several-page feature complete with photographs -- actual photos of the deceased boy and his parents. They were not seeking anonymity, which I consider (and did so at the time) to be very brave of them

The boy was aged around 18. He was killed in an automobile accident. He was his parents' only child. The parents were financially comfortable. The story was published in the mid to late '90s

The parents were naturally grief-stricken at the death of their son, but were making progress when, several months after his death, a series of disturbing events commenced. Their television began malfunctioning ... turning itself on and off. The face of their son began appearing on the tv-screen, even when it was switched-off at the power-supply. The boy began appearing in the glass upper-half of the back-door, calling for his mother and for help. Invisible hands thrust his mother out of her favourite chair when she attempted to sit in it

The father, who was present when most of these events took place ---neither saw nor heard anything. He and his wife had known each other for many years throughout their long marriage and even before. He regarded his wife as honest and mentally-stable. Under the circumstances however, he sought advice from doctors. He wanted to know how to assist his wife through this distressing time. The wife attended doctors, who judged her to be coping normally with the loss of her son. However, it was clear the alleged appearance of her deceased son was having serious affects upon her health. Doctors advised the couple to take a holiday, which they did. The wife seemed stronger upon their return

However, soon after their return, the distressing events recommenced

The husband had brought numerous qualified technicians to test the television (it was a good brand and quite a recent purchase). They'd found nothing untoward on any occasion. When the boy again began appearing on the tv screen after the parents' return from holiday, the husband brought the technicians back who again reported the tv was working perfectly. Finally, the husband bought a new television and had the old one removed. His wife continued to see her deceased son's face on the screen of the new tv, even when it was disconnected from the power supply. The invisible hands continued to prevent her from sitting in her usual easy-chair. And his face continued to appear to her in the glass of the door, and to scream and beg her for help

The husband, distraught on behalf of his son and wife, discussed the situation with a colleague, who suggested the husband attempt to photograph what his wife claimed to be seeing

The husband asked his wife if she was in agreement with this. She was.

Each night, it was the parents' long custom to take a drink each evening in their living room. Each had a favourite arm-chair. The tv was nearby. The husband asked his wife to tell him when she saw or felt their son. The article contained two photos taken by the husband. One shows a face bearing remarkable likeness to their son on the tv screen which at the time was disconnected from the power supply. The other photo shows the wife seated in a very awkward position in her chair -- squashed over to one side and near the edge, drink still in hand, a starled expression on her face. A photo inset in the article shows a photo of their son taken shortly before he died. It is virtually identical to the face of the boy in the tv screen

The photo of the face in the tv screen was taken by the husband after a signal by his wife. This is what they'd agreed -- that the wife would signal to say she could see their son on the tv. Same with the photo involving the chair. The husband was unable to see his son's face in the tv when he took the photo. He was however able to see that his wife was unable to sit normally in her chair (she claimed invisible hands were trying to push her out of the chair and/or were preventing her from sitting in it. Neither she nor her husband could see the hands)

The husband took the exposed roll of film to a reputable developer himself and collected the photos himself. He was then able to see the face of his son in the tv screen, as his wife had been saying for months. He had not seen the face when he took the photo however

The husband next took the photos and negatives to a series of photograhic analysts, who informed him, after investigating both photos and negatives, that in their opinion, all were free from tampering and bore no trace of double-exposure, etc.

The journalist who wrote the article described the parents as being conservative, retiring, quietly-spoken, etc. Their lives had been entirely normal until the death of their son. The photo of the boy's mother suggests she is aged mid to late 40s. Their home appears to be very well maintained and again, affluent, conservative, comfortable. The family had never before been in the news or attracted attention. The journalist interviewed the photo-analysts concerned. The story appeared to be exactly as presented. The parents did not seek any form of payment for their story or approach any other media seeking attention or financial reward

The mother said she and her husband had been heart-broken initially, at the death of their only son. But they'd been regaining equilibrium as they slowly moved through the grieving-process. They'd accepted their loss. They hadn't stopped living or pulled the blinds down on the future. They'd continued their normal lives with a mentally-healthy approach. For example, they'd recommenced socialising as time passed. They'd continued their custom of their shared drink each evening after dinner, had watched tv, gone to the movies, planned holidays, etc. Then, some time after his death, their son had begun appearing to his mother in what was clearly a disturbing, upsetting manner, such as appearing outside the glass back door, screaming and begging for her help and asking to be allowed inside

' Mum, let me in ! Please .. let me in ! Help me ! ' is what he's reported to have cried repeatedly. Similarly with the appearance of his face in both his parents original and later, new, tv's -- same distraught face of their deceased son, begging for help. The mother doesn't claim the hands which push out of her chair as she attempts to sit are her son's hands. But this began at the same time as the appearance of his face in their tv's and outside the door. The reader is left to draw his/her own conclusions, although why the son would wish to prevent his mother from sitting in her customary arm-chair is a mystery

From memory, the son also told his mother repeatedly, ' Mum, it wasn't my fault - not my fault '. The mother believes this refers to the accident in which their son was killed. Yet there was never any suggestion he was at fault

I've seen no further reference to the case since. Hope it was resolved

reply to post by Dock9


Interesting post DOCK9


The fact that the boy appeared in the television further corroborates my hypothesis pertaining to the electromagnetic energy spectrum.
And the ability of spirits to use their energy to feed a radio or television receiver with their own signal or energy.

There are countless cases of electrical malfunctions attributed to the disembodied ones.

I actually watched a lamp turn on in my own home.
It caught my attention because I could hear the switch engaging as if someone were turning it.
And in an instant, the light/lamp was on !

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Highlyoriginal, I have a question for you. I notice you have "spiritualist" on your avatar. Yet, here you seem to question even the existence of spirits, (way beyond how they might materialize, and for what purpose).

I'm finding a slight incongruence with this, and wondering if you could shed some light on what you mean. Most spiritualists base their entire belief system on the notion that once we die, we just simply pass over into another realm.....the spirit realm.

Yet here, you appear to question these very postulates.

While I don't consider myself a spiritualist per se, I do find the beliefs meritorious and plausible (I tend to find life after death more complicated), but yet I found both Dock's and Mont's experiences very much in keeping with the spiritualist's beliefs of these entity's possible behaviors.

Many stories I tend to have questions and doubts about, but it just so happens there were two stories here on this same thread, that were very believable.

So, I ask you. As a Spiritualist, why do you find it difficult to believe that spirits might present themselves to those incarnate?

Or for that matter...even exist at all?

I think I may have relayed my words wrong, and they may have also been interpreted wrong.

I believe in spirits; entities which our not from our realm (souls if you will). I never said I doubt that they are real, the subject I'm doubting is the whole concept of ghosts. I do believe a spirit can show themselves to those of us living in the physical realm, but I don't know if they actually will be visible to us while we are merely doing everyday things. I would think you'd have to meditate, be at a higher frequency, to see them and speak to them. I have had contact with spirits before, just not in the physical realm. In the astral realm I have.

Also, it seems you are confused about the term spiritualist. The whole point of being a spiritualist is not confining yourself to a set of beliefs, but believing you can find the answers for yourself. So one spiritualist may believe completely different things from another, although a lot of spiritualist do have a lot of the same ideas and values on which they base their beliefs.

reply to post by nh_ee


Thank you. I've just been scrolling through the thread to star all star-less contributions, because they all have something of value to add to the ongoing quest to come to grips with a phenomenon experienced by literally tens of thousands throughout history

Chilling story though, isn't it, the one about the boy appearing to his mother. I can't imagine anything more painful than the ordeal to which his parents were subjected and may still be being subjected

As with all such stories, no matter how genuinely portrayed, we are unable to verify via our own senses. If the boy was appearing to his mother as described though, then it raises even more questions and could be cited as genuine evidence of the reality of ghosts, just as it could be cited as evidence of the claims that 'evil spirits' portray themselves as our deceased loved-ones, amongst other claims

I'm reminded now of the words of Myers (of the famous Victorian-era 'cross correspondences' fame) as allegedly conveyed to Matthew Manning (author of 'The Link' and other books on the subject). Incidentally, if you haven't readManning's books, 70's era, they're well worth the time. Manning, if we're to believe him, had numerous extraordinary experiences, beginning in his early teens. He now focuses his energies into healing. But initially, he was a form of conduit for deceased persons, famous and other. And during this time, he alleges he made contact with Myers (who, along with numerous luminaries of the Victorian era -- including respected scientists, politicians including at least one Prime Minister, etc. --- established the Society for investigation of psychic phenomena ... can't remember it's actual title at the moment, but it's still in operation although it's believed it actually functions to discredit, these days)

Myers' group vowed that if at all possible, they would communicate with others in the group after death. In order to ensure the communications emanated from themselves, they developed a code which would be used. It's claimed people far removed from each other each received a portion of the total message from Myers. When the various fragments were collected and the code applied to the deciphering, it's believed this constituted proof of the fact Myers (and others, I think) had made genuine contact after physical death

Manning claimed he also gained contact with Myers and that in response to Manning's questions as to why contact from the dead is so fragmented and difficult to make sense of, Myers reportedly replied (from beyond the grave) that trying to make contact with the living could be likened to trying to dictate to slightly deaf secretary who was concealed behind a frosted-glass screen. Or words to that effect

Most of us must have asked ourselves many times why this is the case

After all, it would appear that the dead are willing and often eager to communicate with us. And the fact they have done and do so, is what alerted the living in the first place that death is not necessarily the end of consciousness and to the fact that death may even be a form of continuance of life. The living, for various reasons, are often keen to contact the dead. So that provides two willing parties, eager to communicate. Why, then, is it made so difficult ?

Those of a religious bent might claim that it (contact with the dead) is the road direct to hell and damnation. And certainly, religion has issued warnings and threats (to the point it's killed many) about such contact. Did religion forbid contact with the dead because it threatened religion's monopoly on the Death and Afterlife industry ? Or in the genuine attempt to save us from something ? Or a bit of both ?

It could be that religion has part of the truth, as do those who've experienced contact with the dead

And trepidation on the part of many, re: contact --- is it based solely on religion's warnings about devils disguised as deceased loved-ones and angels ? Or is it based in personal experiences of horror stories, which were then handed down, word of mouth ? Or again ... a bit of both ?

The Philip experiment, for example. Philip was a concoction created by the group as an experiment. He'd never lived, apparently. Yet a Philip made himself known to the group. But who was the entity puporting to be Philip ? Or, was it a case ... as claimed ... of human energy manifesting as spirit ?

Then there was the Scole Group, which claimed to be in contact with several spirits which allegedly distributed gifts which arrived out of thin air, still warm from 'wherever'. But most intriguing of all were the Scole photos in which human faces can clearly be seen and which purport to be faces of the dead as they appeared in real life

Electronic Voice Phenomena and associated phenomena -- are they genuinely voices of the deceased, as is believed by many who claim many of the voices provide information which could only be known by the deceased in question ?

All these attempts by the deceased (or purporting to be the deceased) imply the dead are keen to contact the living via any means at their disposal. And it's reciprocated by many of the living. Two willing parties. Yet between them apparently exists the 'deaf secretary behind the glass-screen' impediment to verfiiable success

Every generation hopes and believes the mystery will be cracked during their lifetime. Myers and his influential group believed they were on the cutting edge of discovery. Yet that was over 100 years ago and there's been no discernible progress, despite Uri Geller and Matthew Manning and scores of others. In fact, it seems those who're closest to the truth back away or are warned away, after which they become very vague and speak in the usual generalities

We're all going to be 'the deceased' one day. Yet even if we take our burning curiosity with us into the Afterlife, along with a determination to communicate with those left behind, it will most probably all be lost 'in translation'. But will we ever know why that should be the case ?



.
edited for mistakes all over the place, many of which probably remain, sorry

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Dock9]

reply to post by nh_ee


Thanks for adding that to the thread, very informative.

One thing I want to ask though is how you mentioned that a ghost must draw energy from their surroundings to increase their vibrational frequency to a level we will be able to see them. However, I seem to believe that a spirit can be at a higher frequency and require themselves to disperse energy to lower their vibrational level. This is what makes it all confusing for me, because some of these questions are just something we cannot answer.

I do like the idea of a spirit/entity using energy to increase our frequency level so we can appear to them. That seems more plausible in my book, and it also resonates with me well. One time when I was first trying to astral project, I had an entity help me out of body by grabbing the upper arm/shoulder of my astral body and pulling me out. It wasn't until after I came back to the physical realm that I realized what had happened, that I had been helped out of body. It was an amazing experience.

And Dock9, don't take my previous post wrong. I just find it odd that you didn't remember your experiences until a later date, and even many years later you had more details come back to you. That is something that I cannot explain therefore I just find hard to believe, but that doesn't mean you're lying or anything. And I don't believe you are.

reply to post by highlyoriginal



Now that is synchronicity !

I began a post to you close to an hour ago. In it, I explained that my query re: the term 'vibrations' wasn't in any way directed to you personally ... more to the world in general. Because sceptics seem to leap upon the 'vibrations' theory and ridicule it -- often accompanied by mocking illustrations of wavy lines. I was genuinely wondering about its origins and guess I was suggesting we used a different term, one which wouldn't draw immediate guffaws

But, as you pointed out, when I attempted to describe, I used the word 'wavelength' and likened the situation to radios

No offence intended, anyway. Just a not terribly well thought-out remark at the commencement of my first post which went down badly. Please accept my apologies if you felt it was directed at you


I then went on to respond to other of your remarks and was well through 6,000 characters

--- then Microsoft Vista got a migraine, apparently. Claimed it would have to 'Close Down the Program'. And did so, because it always does as it likes. When I got things up and running again, it was to discover that everything I'd written to you had vanished, courtesy of Vista

So then, seething as I was, I read nh_ee's last post and responded to that, all the while intended to start a new post to you as soon as I'd stopped wanting to toss my computer into the fish pond

... and lo and behold --- you posted to me during the same time period



Anyway, the sun's just comiing up over the horizon here, so I'll do us both a favour and respond to your post later on, when my brain's had the benefit of some sleep

in the meantime, thank you and hope the misunderstandings are a thing of the past

best regards

reply to post by highlyoriginal


Ok, back now, although I can't claim to be any more refreshed mentally, due to a variety of circumstances which come with trying to sleep in the middle of the day in a busy and noisy neighbourhood. My fault entirely ...

You say you find it difficult to believe that someone would see what we call a ghost. And then go about their usual business (including a night's sleep) in a form of trance-state as consequence of the experience. And not remember any of that for approx. 10 hours. With further memories of the experience not surfacing for 20+ years

That's the thing about these experiences though, isn't it ? We find them difficult to believe. Even when they're our own experiences, we find them difficult to believe. And no matter how entertaining or spine-tingling we consider other people's ghost-tales to be quite often --- if we were asked to sign a legal document saying Yes, I Believe This --- then most of us would have to decline

Because, (and as we'd say to the person holding the document):
' Look. I liked the story. It conforms with my personal version of how ghosts should appear and behave, etc. But I wasn't there, was I ? They could have invented or copied it from a book or movie, for all I know. I liked the story and how it was told on ATS. I starred and flagged it. But that doesn't mean I believe it. It didn't happen to me, after all, so how could I know if it's true or not ? '

Life isn't always believable, which might account for the numerous sites devoted to 'Incredible' and 'Unbelievable' news, where we read (for example) that a 34 year old woman in the UK very recently died of suspected blood-poisoning after having a stud inserted in her tongue as a 'birthday surprise gift'. Tens of thousands, around the world have had tongue-studs inserted. They will probably roll their eyes and disbelieve that a simple tongue stud could kill a grown woman. But she's dead, nevertheless

On the same theme, we see on Youtube several dozen videos of guys flying and jumping off rooftops and landing without harm or suffering something as minor as a twisted ankle. Yet in the international news a few weeks ago, it was reported that a UK tourist fell down no more than one or two steps when alighting from a plane in Mexico --- and died there on the tarmac, with her family trying to shield her with their jackets -- while the airline and ground crew stood by and refused to assist because it could offend one of the unions -- and with the doctor unable to assist because he'd had to travel to the scene in his old, personal jalopy. How could such a comic-opera occur in this day and age, people ask -- how could anyone die from falling one or two steps ? But the woman's dead. Just as the 22 year woman died in the UK whilst at work. All she was doing was carrying a cup of coffee down a flight of stairs she used dozens of times a day. She only fell a couple of steps near the bottom. She was to be married the following month. Seems impossible she could died from something so minor, doesn't it ? Movies stars throw others or fall themselves, down two or three flights of stairs and bounce up to shoot six bad-guys in a few seconds. We've all seen it. So why ... in real life ... are ordinary people dying from a fall down two steps ? Which are we supposed to believe --- the news, or movies and Youtube ?

So, it's bad enough making sense sometimes of what happens to physical, living bodies which don't behave as we expect them to. Becomes immeasurably more difficult when the discussion's about discarnate, i.e., 'ghostly' bodies

I don't know the percentage of people, worldwide, who claim to have witnessed a ghost. Maybe the figures are out there. What is it, do you know ... 20% ? 40% ? In a thread like this, we might expect that percentage to be higher, just as ATS, generally-speaking, might be expected to attract a higher than average number of people claiming to have witnessed a UFO

But, throughout the general community, the percentage of people who claim to have witnessed a ghost or UFO could be expected to be considerably lower. For example, in real-life, I've only known of perhaps five people who've claimed either to have seen a UFO themselves, or to know someone else who's claimed to have seen one.
Yet I've met literally thousands of people throughout my combined school, working and personal life. And as you might have gathered, I have a strong interest in certain subjects and don't avoid discussing them

The point I'm making is that although a forum like this one might discuss certain topics as a matter of course --- in real life, they're relatively rare

Why aren't there dozens of threads on ATS about eating or cooking meals, for example ? Or threads about changing diapers or being stuck in peak-hour traffic ? Isn't it because such topics are 'ordinary' --- are something with which we're all familiar and therefore of no particular interest ? Seeing a UFO whilst cooking a meal or being stuck in traffic is considered interesting, though, isn't it ?

When movie-producers make movies about ghosts (or UFOs) they're not trying to make a movie which will inform or educate. People don't want to be educated. They want to be entertained. That's why they pay. Nor do they wish to be bored. They want the big-bang, the larger-than-life. They want the drama. They want the 'oooooo' factor.
They want to be kept on the edge of their seats. That's what they're paying for

So when we see tv-ghost-hunters being accused of trickery, fakery, hoaxing --- it's because the producer of their show has told them to 'spice it up ! '. Watching six people sitting patiently in a darkened room clutching their instruments for six hours --- it's not too exciting ! Who has six hours to waste in watching that ? How many people are aware that ghost-hunters often invest months in a row, visiting supposedly 'haunted' places ---- only to be rewarded with no sign of anything at all ? Yet that's the way it is, in real life

People aren't aware of the reality. Instead --- programmed by 'ghost' shows on tv --- the average person believes (wants to believe) that every delapidated old house, every graveyard, is a seething hot-bed of misty ghosts, wailing and whining and swirling around and eager to be filmed. That's why people go on ghost-tours. And they expect their money's worth. So there are hoaxes and outright fakery, to keep the customers happy. And it's what people expect -- for ghosts to behave in a certain way ... to look a certain way. ' Make me happy. Gimme what I want ! ' cries the consumer-society to the dead. As if once you're dead, you have an obligation to become a stereotypical ghost for teh entertainment of the living

Well, ghosts don't appear on demand and if and when they do appear, they obviously feel no obligation to cater to our expectations

And we of the living ? Well, we don't even know what ghosts are, do we ? We don't know if they're residual energy or if they draw energy from source 'X' or in fact impart energy. We call them vibrations and waves, plasma, emanations, spirits, etc. etc. They're an uknown. Yet a large sector of the community expects ghosts to conform to creatures in a B-grade movie or photographic-trickery posted on Youtube

So let's look at 'real life'. Some of the living are quiet -- some are loud. Some are honest -- some are sneaky. Some barge through a door loudly --- others aren't even noticed. Some leap from planes or buildings for kicks --- others collect stamps and butterflies.

They have one thing in common --- they're all going to die

And when they die, perhaps some will appear to the living as ghosts

Doesn't it make sense that the ghost of a daredevil might appear and behave differently to the ghost of a Sunday-school teacher ? Just as the ghost of a murderous paedophile might appear and behave differently to the ghost of a mother of eleven children ?

So whilst I understand my experience of ghosts seems 'odd' to you, that in itself is perfectly normal. You are not me. You aren't wired as I am. You haven't experienced what I've experienced. You don't share genetic material with me. And the reverse

I may consider your 'real life' to be 'odd'. I might consider the clothes and foods which you prefer --- to be odd. I might consider your friends to be odd. I might consider your lifestyle to be odd. and the reverse

It's said that if 20 people witness an event, they will provide 20 different witness statements, all of them honest. And that's in real-life and in broad daylight

In the same way, someone might see a ghost while the person next to them sees nothing

For example, when I first saw the 'timid' ghost, on almost daily basis and afterwards was struck by the fact he'd had no discernible legs below approx. the knee area -- there was nothing in the literature at my disposal to confirm what I'd noted. This was years before internet. But I had no doubt about what I'd observed and didn't doubt myself, just because no-one had written about the same thing. Fast foward several decades --- and I met someone whose daughter had observed the same unusual detail re: the ghost of her grandmother. Fast forward decades again ... and ... a year or so after I first posted on ATS (under different ID) about the discrepancy re: the legs of the ghosts I'd observed (because by then I'd seen another) --- someone else confirmed it. Then another. In total, a period of over 30 years had elapsed since I'd seen that ghost, but finally, my observations were being validated by others, including by then a couple of authors

So, what might seem 'odd' today, might tomorrow emerge as relatively common, if such could be said of the 'para'normal

reply to post by Dock9


Well I get what you mean... I've had out of body experiences which have shaped my views on my spiritual life greatly, and some of my stories probably sound crazy to a lot of people, but nonetheless I know that they happened.

Anyway, I wish to hear other peoples views on this subject and what they believe ghosts to be, how they appear, why they appear etc... so if anyone has anything else to add, go for it

I do believe in ghosts and the same time I don't.

This is hard to explain in words
Let's start from the assumtion that time/space does not exist, or is only an illusion that is typical for this physical reality.
We know in duality: 'life' and 'death' and believe them to be truths. Let's say that the only thing that is seperating life from death (in essence) is the illusion itself. It's the veil that keeps us in the unknown. We on one side and all the 'ghosts' on the other side.

Everytime on of 'us' gets an impression of someone on the other side, we call them ghosts. (well, some call them angels or entities, ... )

But, if such an impression occurs, is it them or us who cross the veil? Is it them that somehow come to this side, or is it some of us who have the ability to see what is suposed to be hidden? Who sense what is suposed to be filtered out by the illusion?
Maybe it is just the veil, the illusion, that is failing on some of us and because of that, gives us a glimps of what is on the other side... in the same place as we exist.

just my thoughts

reply to post by Dock9


Thanks for more information about the "pants spirit". Admittedly I was wondering if perhaps he was not the best of fellows, or a bad sort. So, he was not. Then, why the confusion upon his death?

Two things. One, perhaps he died in his sleep. Imagine awakening from a sleep, and being in a different reality. It might be difficult to grasp, or even if one did, difficult to accept and difficult to deny. Equals Confusion.

But the other aspect is the most interesting. The fact that his organs were still being retained, or examined when he appeared to you.

This I have read about. There are people who oppose becoming an organ donar for these very reasons. It somehow interferes with crossing, if the body is incomplete. For example, if you lose an arm, the arm dies. The molecules in the arm, (or whatever--- essence from the arm) await the rest of the body, to cross over.

But if you are a donar, for example, and the body dies minus a kidney, then it could pose difficulty in crossing. (I should have looked more into this before posting. I might yet, it's an interesting notion although I somehow doubt it has much veracity. Nonetheless it would be interesting to look into).

But you refer to the "death-state being... more pertinent", and it does bear looking into, as I know others have written about it and examined it also.

But nonetheless he was able to appear without ... some of his organs, so I find that pertinent information in and of itself.

Oh...typically I think organs are released before burial so the body can be buried wholly. At least when possible.

The story about the boy dying and appearing to his mother was interesting also. But, one cannot underestimate the power of bereavement. There is a "complicated grief reaction", in which the sense of the deceased's presence is felt so strongly that it constitutes an illusion or an hallucination.

So who's to say? We know the loss of a child is one of life's most painful occurrences, which of course could easily trigger a complicated grief reaction. But, there are claims of photographs, and witnesses to the television being unplugged, but without those here to see and study, then, who knows.?

Great thread - fantastic input from everyone concerned.

Dock 9 - Fascinating account

Firstly I would just like to focus on the trousers ? I wonder if these were the trousers he was wearing when he died and whether or not you picked up a psychic imprint from them ? I mean they could not establish the cause of death so technically he died under suspicious circumstances ?

The Australian Aborigines have a name for psychic imprints it is called jiva or guruwari, a seed power deposited in the earth. According to Aborigines, every action or event that occurs at a particular place leaves behind a vibrational residue in the earth.

Dock 9 you said :

From above him, I see he has a balding spot at the top back. I did not see this detail from my original memory whilst sitting on the sofa

I found your information pertaining to the OBE really interesting and this could definitely explain your perceived feeling of missing time - I have often wondered if there is a connection between Synethesia and psychic phenomena? Sharing a root with anesthesia (meaning “no sensation”), synesthesia means “joined sensation” (Greek syn = together + aisthesis = perception), wherein two or more senses are coupled such that a voice, for example, is not only heard, but also felt, seen, or tasted. Could synesthesia explain the phenomena of seeing " Auras " or " Out of body experiences "

As children, synesthetes are very like children with extra sensory perception - they are often quite shocked to discover that others do not share their sensory experiences. Often ridiculed and disbelieved, they learn to keep their atypical perceptions private. Nonetheless, the phenomenon remains involuntary and consistent throughout their lives.

OBE's could coincide with a form of spatial synesthesia ? This could possibly then account for your vision ( which became a projection of the psychic imprint your were picking up on )

David Abram, following Merleau-Ponty, finds this synesthetic unity in the very nature of perception itself.

Although contemporary neuroscientists study synaesthesia the overlap and blending of the senses as though it were a rare or pathological experience to which only certain persons are prone (those who report “seeing sounds,” “hearing colors,” and the like), our primordial, preconceptual experience, as Merleau-Ponty makes evident, is inherently synaesthetic. The intertwining of sensory modalities seems unusual to us only to the extent that we have become estranged from our direct experience (and hence from our primordial contact with the entities and elements that surround us.)

So in a sense we could perceive these moments of interaction with other dimensions as a lifting of the veil ?

Edit to say I am tired lol hope this makes sense ?



[edit on 20-4-2010 by destiny-fate]

It is funny, I was raised as most of us are in the western world under the belief that Ghosts did not exist.

As a kid always interested in science, at around 10 years old I began building radios and it began to open my eyes to the concept and possibility of things existing even though they were invisible to the naked eye.

Later on in high school I became interested in martial arts, practicing meditation and began reading books by T. Lobsang Rampa, about life as a Buddhist monk in Tibet in the city of Lhasa.

They as with most Buddhists have a very strong belief system in reincarnation as well as what we would describe as the after life.

This made more sense to me than our existence simply ending once we had died, for everything in our existence was comprised of equal and opposites as the yin yang portray, making a whole.

I feel that our western knowledge of science and the relatively recent capability to communicate with the dead using EVP's and Radio's will inevitably prove to those whom doubt the existence of ghosts as to what the Buddhists have been saying all along.

reply to post by GypsK

Let's say that the only thing that is seperating life from death (in essence) is the illusion itself. It's the veil that keeps us in the unknown. We on one side and all the 'ghosts' on the other side.

But, if such an impression occurs, is it them or us who cross the veil? Is it them that somehow come to this side, or is it some of us who have the ability to see what is suposed to be hidden? Who sense what is suposed to be filtered out by the illusion? Maybe it is just the veil, the illusion, that is failing on some of us and because of that, gives us a glimps of what is on the other side... in the same place as we exist.

First of all , my perspective is that the spirits are all around us. Just as with everything in the non visible electromagnetic spectrum are invisible.

I find this interesting for more Women than Men seem to be sensitive to seeing spirits.

My Wife for example, saw her first spirit as a little girl at about 5 years of age.

She was going upstairs to put on her pajamas, and there in the hallway appeared a woman spirit or ghost in front of her.

As I have always asked as a scientist, WHY ?

My hypothesis is:
I feel that Women are gifted with a stronger 6th sense as a natural measure against danger to protect themselves as well as their young.

We call it instinct.

Another facet of this is my Wife is also very telepathic and so am I.

We have learned to communicate with ourselves as well as our animals via telepathy.

I have experimented on other dogs and they give you this very surprised look...like hey, you speak our language !

On a side note:

My wife competes in dog agility, which is, if you don't know, where a dog is trained how to interact with various obstacles, and competes a course of said obstacles under the clock.

The fastest dogs through the course without any errors win.

So years ago I asked my wife, as a scientist, and having experimented with her and my own telepathy, to try envisioning telepathically as to which obstacle on the course she wanted the dog to go next.

And it worked.

She has completed a Master Agility Title, which is the highest one can achieve and is working on another Master Title with our younger dog.

In fact, just this past weekend our younger dog was the fastest competitor and she is only around 12 pounds , the smallest competitor at the event. And Out running all of the other larger dogs.

In summary, I feel that our ability to communicate telepathically is an organic form of radio transceivers so to speak.

AND when it comes to spirits, those of us whom are "tuned in" are more likely to sense and possibly communicate with the spiritual realm.

Good thread....lets keep it going !!

reply to post by highlyoriginal



I think that simply stated is that the entities do not possess the energy necessary in which to communicate. Either by sound or by sight.

It is analogous to asking you to jump over a 7 foot wall for example.
You would need considerably more energy to attain such a feat.