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New tech sees dead people

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posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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New tech sees dead people
Special imaging can detect changes in light caused by a decomposing body
By Eric Bland
Discovery Channel
updated 2:55 p.m. ET, Fri., April 16, 2010

A spooky sounding technology is finding old, unmarked graves. Using hyperspectral imaging, scientists from McGill University have found unmarked animal graves with special cameras that measure changes in the light coming from soil and plants.

Hyperspectral imaging collects and processes light from across the electromagnetic spectrum, including visible light as well as ultraviolet and infrared light. The research could help police solve missing persons cases or reveal new mass graves from hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago.

"As soon as there is some decay you can see a difference," said Andre Costopoulos, a professor at McGill University developing new techniques to find old graves.

"We suspect that some of these graves are over 40 years old, and are excited to try to find much older grave sites," some of which could be hundreds of years old, said Costopoulos.

The McGill project began in an unlikely place: an African animal safari park in Quebec called Parc Safari. Parc Safari officials wanted to exhume a buried elephant and reassemble the bones for an park exhibit. But the park official didn't know where the dead elephant was buried.


Rest of the story:
www.msnbc.msn.com...




posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 03:25 AM
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reply to post by Pauligirl
 
Hiya PG, very interesting stuff and leaves me with more questions than answers. I'm gonna go and see if there's more information. How large a scale can the tech be used on? For example, is it able to be used from a helicopter? Can it cover whole fields? Is it limited to small locations? Is the writer basing his claim that it can used to find bodies 'from hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago' on the evidence or is he guessing?

One of my interests is archaeology/anthropology so this kind of thing would be a great help in the area. I live an hour away from the moors where the Moors Murderers buried their victims. This is why I wonder about the scale. It'd be welcome news to a couple of families who haven't been able to locate and bury their bodies. I guess a lot of families would welcome this tech.

The one thing that made me smile was this...


"This has a wide range of applications," for local police and international human rights investigators. "If the perpetrators know that what they do will leave long term traces that can be detected, that might have a deterrent effect on them," said Hanson.


Talk about blind optimism! How many murderers think they'll get caught?



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
One of my interests is archaeology/anthropology so this kind of thing would be a great help in the area. I live an hour away from the moors where the Moors Murderers buried their victims. This is why I wonder about the scale. It'd be welcome news to a couple of families who haven't been able to locate and bury their bodies. I guess a lot of families would welcome this tech.


Saddleworth Moor is the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread too. If you're an hour away, I probably live a little closer to the area than you though. I was Winnie Johnson's neighbour for several years.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by Pauligirl
 


Great thanks, now I am almost 100 percent certain that death is the end, thanks, I mean if they're reading the light source, that means all the protons, that form the light are all still there in the place of the burial which = no soul. death is death. Man that really sucks!



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 05:02 AM
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This could be a wonderful tool for investigations like the Haliegh Cummings case going on in fla right now. As of yesterday, Misty Croslin has been taken to some docks to 'show where they threw her in' , with a tool like that, they wouldn't need Misty, who is lying already or the child's body would have been found! And remeber Caylee Anthony? It may not save a life, but it could permit justice for one.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


I wondered about the scale too. How much ground can they cover in a single flyover? Would it pick up on remains not buried, but hidden?

Let us know what you find.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by space cadet
 


This actually READS PLANT LIGHT -- not "sees dead bodies" -- so it wouldn't work for underwater I don't think -- unless the light detection works underwater....

www.msnbc.msn.com...




The McGill scientists borrowed a plane from the Canadian National Research Council and equipped it with two cameras. One camera recorded light in the visible spectrum and into the infrared range. The other camera recorded light in the infrared and longer light ranges. When the hyperspectral camera-equipped aircraft flew over the animal graveyard, the scientists found all seven known graves, plus 25 new graves, some of which were buried up up to eight feet deep. "One flyby of the aircraft gave us four to fives times more information than we gathered in three seasons of digging," said Costopoulos. For the first five years or so a decaying body inhibits plant growth. "Initially it's a pretty toxic environment," for plants, said Kalacska, who, along with Pablo Arroyo and Tim Moore, manages the technological side of the research. Plants that grow over such recent graves don't reflect as much light in the visible and near infrared region, which scientists can detect using their cameras. After five years, however, the plants growing over buried body suddenly reflect light instead of absorbing light. In fact, on-grave plants reflect more than twice the green light of off-grave plants. For a human eye detecting such tiny changes would be "very hard," said Kalacska, but the difference is obvious to the hyperspectral camera. The increase in reflected light comes from an increase in chlorophyll, the pigment that plants use to convert light from the sun. After five years a decomposing body becomes fertilizer, supplying the growing plants with much needed nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus. Bigger plants with bigger, healthier leaves reflect more light.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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Let's stay away from psuedo scientific mumbo jumbo and call it what it really is:

It's called WIKIPEDIA LINK- Thermography - not Hyperspectral - Good lord.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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Proud to be from Quebec
)

Good job guys at McGill!



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by ATS4dummies
Let's stay away from psuedo scientific mumbo jumbo and call it what it really is:

It's called WIKIPEDIA LINK- Thermography - not Hyperspectral - Good lord.


It doesn't appear to be quite the same

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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Thank you Pauligirl!

I recant my criticisim of the the term "Hyper-spectral" and I am gratefully educated by you. I appreciate that very much. I never heard of it before.

Best regards,
Ats4Dummies (a real life dummy now and then - but that's good.)



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Pauligirl
reply to post by Kandinsky
 


I wondered about the scale too. How much ground can they cover in a single flyover? Would it pick up on remains not buried, but hidden?

Let us know what you find.


It's really very cool indeed. It's a meeting of minds between Margaret Kalacska and Andre Costopoulos. He runs the Anthro Dept at McGill Uni, she's associate Professor of the Geography Dept.

The techniques can theoretically identify mass graves up to 5 metres square from aerial and/satellite imagery. Initial tests examined animal graves and back-filled pits without animal carcasses. The hyperspectral imaging was successful in identifying only the animal burials and not reflecting any data (false positives) from disturbed earthworks.

I imagine they'll be looking to define what time limits there are in regards to increased 'green light' reflectivity. The article mentions 16 months as a minimum limit so it could end up being used on older cases I guess.


Detection of mass graves utilizing the hyperspectral information in airborne or satellite imagery is an untested application of remote sensing technology. We examined the in situ spectral reflectance of an experimental animal mass grave in a tropical moist forest environment and compared it to an identically constructed false grave which was refilled with soil, but contained no cattle carcasses over the course of a 16-month period.

....This experimental study has demonstrated the real utility of airborne hyperspectral imagery for the detection of a relatively small mass grave (5 m2) within a specific climatic zone. Other climatic zones will require similar actualistic modeling studies, but it is clear that the applications of this technology provide the international community with both an early detection tool and a tool for ongoing monitoring.
The Application of Remote Sensing for Detecting Mass Graves: An Experimental Animal Case Study from Costa Rica

Kalacska has also edited a book on the subject of Hyperspectral Remote Sensing...here. It's hard science and a lot to try and take in...I skimmed a couple of chapters and needed paracetamol and a dictionary.


Ultimately, it looks like this new approach has the potential to help the Police and archaeo/anthropologists discover lost grave sites. Eurasia will light up like a shop window with it's history of murder and mass graves...



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 



Ultimately, it looks like this new approach has the potential to help the Police and archaeo/anthropologists discover lost grave sites. Eurasia will light up like a shop window with it's history of murder and mass graves...


This is exciting news, there may already be similar technology in place as it seems that more and more artifacts are found in recent years. If this can be used to find not only bodies but clues to who may have murdered them that is great, very hard to convict anyone without a body.




posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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Title is a bit deceiving, no?

Other than that, cool.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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this only thing I am wondering is ..theres are all kinds of plant and animal decay all over the place...from forests to swamps..jungles etc..how can they differentiate the diffrence between animal and plant decay? mebbe I should just shut up and read the article ya? lol



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by Pauligirl
 


Great thanks, now I am almost 100 percent certain that death is the end, thanks, I mean if they're reading the light source, that means all the protons, that form the light are all still there in the place of the burial which = no soul. death is death. Man that really sucks!


wow ... what one thing has anything to do with another, did u even bothered to read the d thing? they can see the light from a chemical process ...

LOL ... I must be dreaming ... is kobe playing football?



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 06:01 PM
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The case of the windmill getting hit in the 1800s by a flying saucer could be solved with this technology. They have been searching for that grave for years now and if they get their paws on it, it could lead to closure on the U.S.'s oldest reported UFO crash. Way to go OP for bringing this to our attention.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by dreadphil
this only thing I am wondering is ..theres are all kinds of plant and animal decay all over the place...from forests to swamps..jungles etc..how can they differentiate the diffrence between animal and plant decay? mebbe I should just shut up and read the article ya? lol

Apparently plants get much more nutrients from corpses of non-plants that have been berried rather than left to rot. Also apparently those nutrients cause increased chlorophyll which then reflect much more different "invisible" lights like IR or UV. So, with these devices you can see those lights, thus much "brighter" grass means it's growing on someone's grandma or a larger carcass of an animal.

I am still in shock and awe over this. It is a major step in forensics, and... well, many other things. Too bad tho that those cameras cost a fortune.

The technology isn't as new as the actual finding that plants emit different light depending on what they grow on.

[edit on 17/4/2010 by SassyCat]



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by Kandinsky
One of my interests is archaeology/anthropology so this kind of thing would be a great help in the area. I live an hour away from the moors where the Moors Murderers buried their victims. This is why I wonder about the scale. It'd be welcome news to a couple of families who haven't been able to locate and bury their bodies. I guess a lot of families would welcome this tech.


Saddleworth Moor is the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread too. If you're an hour away, I probably live a little closer to the area than you though. I was Winnie Johnson's neighbour for several years.


Good thinking, MW! If Keith could be found before she was to pass away... well, I just think it is so, so important that he is found!

P.s. I'm in Hyde.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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Great thanks, now I am almost 100 percent certain that death is the end, thanks, I mean if they're reading the light source, that means all the protons, that form the light are all still there in the place of the burial which = no soul. death is death. Man that really sucks!


How in the world do you deduce this from the simple fact that a decomposing body acts as fertilizer which changes the chlorophyll content of plants above (of which the light spectrum gets detected)?


[edit on 17-4-2010 by whatsup]



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