Going a little deeper:

In 1898 Robert Young translated a literal version of the Bible directly from the Hebrew texts. He attempted to stay as close to the literal Hebrew as possible in English, even though some stuff made no sense.

The verse in question (the beginning of the Lucifer crap) translated literally by Young reads:

"How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations."

Nothing there about Lucifer.

In Young's 2 Peter translation about Christ:

"And we have more firm the prophetic word, to which we do well giving heed, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, till day may dawn, and a morning star may arise -- in your hearts;"

And in Young's Revelation:

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."



The whole confusion about the word "lucifer" is simply that at one time Satan was the bright star, above the angels. He then chose to rebel and was defeated.

Now, Christ is the bright star.

Again -- nothing to do with masonry, just showing how easy it is to jump to conclusions with semantics.

This was a cool thread until the endless pages of feeding 1 single troll. In effect.. becoming trolls ourselves..

So..

Don't feed the troll..

why are masons so secretive? is there something that society would deem as "bad" going on in those lodges?
and i understand your secretness a general answer will be fine

Originally posted by ashanu90
why are masons so secretive? is there something that society would deem as "bad" going on in those lodges?
and i understand your secretness a general answer will be fine

I don't think we consider ourselves as secretive as society in general does.

Our "secrets" are handshakes, passwords and modes of recognition.

The main reason we keep these to ourselves is that we promised to do so. It's sort of like a test of our own integrity.


As far as bad things... Nothing goes on in the lodge that society would consider bad. Most of our meeting times are spent doing business. We pay bills, vote on new members, plan events, etc. much like any other service organization.

During our rituals and ceremonies we focus on presenting lessons to help men build their moral character, treat others with respect and compassion, and use symbols and allegories to help each man in his walk with God (or the Supreme Being of his religion).

I will post shortly some of the not-secret parts of our lectures to exemplify this.

[edit on 4/21/10 by emsed1]

Here is an example that is taught to Entered Apprentice Masons regarding the canopy, or ceiling, of a lodge. I believe at some time in the past (maybe some lodges have this) the ceiling was painted with blue and stars.

This quote is from the 1922 Edition of the Texas Monitor. It may vary from what a modern lodge uses but it's very similar to what my lodge uses.

The covering of a Lodge is no less than the clouded canopy, or starry-decked heavens, where all good Masons hope at last to arrive, by the aid of the theological ladder, which Jacob, in his vision, saw extending from earth to heaven; the three principal rounds of which are denominated Faith, Hope and Charity; teaching Faith in God, Hope in immortality, and Charity to all mankind.

Of these, Charity is the greatest; for Faith may be lost in sight; Hope end in fruition; but Charity extends beyond the grave, through the bound-less realms of eternity.

Further in the lecture on the First Degree the whole point of Freemasonry is (in my opinion beautifully) explained:

By the exercise of Brotherly Love, we are taught to regard the whole human species as one family--the high and low, the rich and poor; who, as created by one Almighty Parent, and inhabitants of the same planet, are to aid, support, and protect each other.

On this principle, Masonry unites men of every country, sect and opinion, and conciliates true friendship among those who might, otherwise, have remained at a perpetual distance.

We are also instructed to patiently live according to the laws of government. We all realize that in the past Freemasons have led revolutions but this behavior is not sanctioned. In fact we are not allowed to discuss either politics or religious beliefs in our lodges.

Freemasons understand that our true duty is to mankind, but we must live under the accepted values and laws of our society. I think that once I realized that life extends far beyond this temporary time and place it's easier to just put up with government until we are free of it.

As a citizen, you are to be a quiet and peaceable subject, true to your government, and just to your country; you are not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion, but patiently submit to legal authority, and conform with cheerfulness to the government of the country in which you live.

I hope this helps. These are just a few examples of the many things we learn but they represent our beliefs.

In my jurisdiction and obligation I don't see these quotes as exposing any secret but I will certainly take them down if any brother feels like I've posted something I shouldn't.

[edit on 4/21/10 by emsed1]

Originally posted by ashanu90
why are masons so secretive? is there something that society would deem as "bad" going on in those lodges?
and i understand your secretness a general answer will be fine

Nothing bad going on behind closed doors... we vote on new members, vote to pay our bills, discuss fundraising activities for our scholarship committee, etc.

There's a fine line between privacy and secrecy. You couldn't walk in to the board meeting of a privately held company, and you can't walk in to a tiled lodge meeting for much the same reason. It's none of your business.

Then, of course, at some times, in some countries, Freemasonry has been outlawed and its members executed... Hitler and Saddam Hussein both had death penalty laws against Masonry under their regimes.

there is still the matter that masons should be loyal to theyr government and obey but only if the government is good,as far as i know.
you dont expect me to obey my government and do everything as told do you?
theyr corrupted to the core,theres so many expensive SUVs on the roads,and 90% of the populations starves,and wants to kill you for bananas.
we tryed to steal all the eurofunds until they CUT us.
i cant even join the masons in my country,couse theyr probably not realy masons but rich and evil bastards who only make money from the pain of people,from "support charity" events,which the poor people give money,and the money goes to some rich bastard! you cant ask me to support this kind of government.if i supported this opression i would be doing "EVIL deads"
so i cant even be a freemason,and do charity,and help others,couse i have to move out of my country to even have a normal job aroudn kind people.
thank good its soon

do masons have their own ring companies or do they make them themselves? my great gpa was a mason and had a masonic ring, i never met him so i never saw it but i heard it was relay cool looking

Originally posted by ashanu90
do masons have their own ring companies or do they make them themselves? my great gpa was a mason and had a masonic ring, i never met him so i never saw it but i heard it was relay cool looking

There are various companies that make rings for the Masons (non-Mason owned and Mason owned). There are quite a few private businesses started by Masons that are well known places of supply.

It seems there's more to freemasonry then "being a good citizen to society and worshiping your faith chosen God." (Maybe this applies to low level local masons, who are potentially ignorant to freemasonry true intentions)

It seems to me there's more to freemasonry then what ATS freemasons with their anecdote are telling us. Freemasonry is known to have very intelligent individuals within it's depths, and masons following a societal dentrimenting religion, such as Christianity seems awkward considering my perception of freemasonry as "people who see and know the holistic picture of humanity's problems."

If my perception of freemasonry is wrong, then there must be a different group of people that share the same perception as I have of "a holistic mindset of humanities problems."

On topic, is freemasonry a world wide society?



[edit on 21-4-2010 by GrandKitaro777]

how do you get kicked out of a lodge? like whats the number one freemason no no? and what are some others?
i imagine giving away secrets is at least a major no no if not the highest

ok you are gonna think im retarded but i just read a crazy thread and i would like to hear it from the freemasons themselves before i up and dissmiss it, however you could have a secret agenda and misinform me.....idk here it goes

Lets consider one thing that bonded many founding fathers together. One thing is that they were Freemasons. We have all seen the symbol of the freemasons. Its a Compass to us, but were not "illuminated" as they say. Truth be told it is a pair of fangs representing the dark side of humanity and protecting their unholy secret. Here is Bill Schnoebelen who admits to being a Vampire also he is a freemason.

any truth to this? any at all?

wont anyone answer my question? if the government is corrupt and evil,is a mason allowed to not obey his life to government rules,i dont mean start crimes and such,but you know what i mean. if i see policeman raping a woman,i cant just walk away,couse policeman are "good"

Originally posted by ashanu90
how do you get kicked out of a lodge? like whats the number one freemason no no?

Being convicted of a felony.