Tea Party, Where's The Beef?

reply to post by Professor Tomorrow


Don't blame me for your inability to debate.

You're one of the first people to accuse me of spreading emotional propaganda, hell my wife say I'm emotionally dead.

Go figure.

reply to post by truth?


"I feel I am giving people to much credit"


This is an example of my quote..


Instead of hearing the message, from these people from all over, people of oppistion would rather flat out focus on their demography and proclaim since the majority reflect WHITE, it is racist. I think just a guess here, but I think they are mainly against wasteful spending wasting tax dollars and are pissed off the banks got bailouts, and do not want to see anymore wasteful spending. They are not to organized simply because well they are ordinary and fresh... I tend to agree with some of their message, and I would think any hard working man or woman would be a fool for not support people trying to remind the government they work for the people not the lobbyist.

My point cohersion is being applied to a truth.
That truth is people are begining to see the truth.
Has nothing to do with race, YET to be fair I am sure their are some backward thinking country folk who hate yet to be sincere this is on both sides. When I was in school, most people that did not like me did not look like me, and disliked me or bullied me to try to take from me.. This is the only example I have to racism. I remember in High school most black people kept to themselves. Then I grew up in the military, and race creed and religion meant nothing to the military infantry man..

That is where I took a step forward in intellect.. Color mean NOTHING, and until we can unite worship together, eat together, play together, understand one another we will always have people that lead us divide us... Humanitarians respondsibilites is beyond feeding it is educating as well.. I would love to grow old and see all children grow up together and show their parents how it was suppose to be done.. I just do not think as a whole America, has the mentallity to do the right thing anymore.. Oh and I will vote... I will do my best to help. I do not think promoting a new form of welfare in unemployment enpowers our citizens to do better man adapts, and they adapt to a check each month and food stamps, and they settle for less, and production from building to mentalities STOP. Which theirfore makes all that pay their taxes part of a dictomy that all should be ashamed of..



thank you.. Thanks for listening..

reply to post by Flatfish


You just did it again.

What I want you to start thinking about is maybe the people behind your computer screen are people who want to engage with you on the issues, but that requires from you that you at least are willing to change your mind.

You've asked questions based on a false premises about the "tea party." You seem to be completely immune to the evidence indicating that it might not be a large political party-style organization, no matter how we try to talk about that issue.

Where can we start? Help me understand. Offer any non-news-sourced experience at least. Because I suspect you are laboring under more misconceptions than can be addressed right now.

reply to post by Professor Tomorrow


Seems to me that you're the one filibustering here, but that's just my opinion.

reply to post by Flatfish


I'll try this again.

Do you accept the premise that the "tea party" is nothing more than a loose-knit group of loosely-ideologically-affiliated people of all different stripes?

Do you understand that a thing like that is incapable of answer the questions you are trying to ask it?

reply to post by Professor Tomorrow


speaking of cohersion..

I will focus on you two for a freedom of charity..



Again, while a divide in the angst of ones emotions, alone covers the MESSAGE being described. It is a disrespectful indulgence to use hard working people placing themselves with labels of stereotypical ignorance for carrot baited debates as this. Concidering we are in America, we have the freedom, to stand up and assemble, if you do not have the common sense to allow such a thing and would rather utilize your right of free speach to argue about it, does it not make you look like a comunist type of person?

It is better perhaps to keep your opinion to yourself in these instances.. In addition such debate has been debated over a hundred years ago. The wise already see the truth in this childish confrontation...

reply to post by Bicent76


If not this, then what are web-forums for?

Originally posted by Professor Tomorrow
reply to post by passingthought

 

(One should not throw stones in glass internets, especially as far as grammar and syntax are concerned. Of course, I'm not releasing Sheeper on this one either. Both of you need to go to the woodshed, as far as writing conventional English goes.)

I'm satisfied with my writing style on ATS. Clear and concise, with a hint a vague inference thrown in.

Of course, you do know I was intentionally sarcastic at shheeep's post which mentioned some kid's drink...and, no, I normally don't feed the trolls, just took a notion

reply to post by Flatfish

To begin with I should inform you that I created this thread and it was my first here on ATS.

Congratulations.

Next, the Tea Party should not be concerned with my obtaining my approval.

I think it's been made pretty clear that they are not concerned with your approval.

That's the reason I created this thread in the first place, was to hopefully gain some insight with respect to specific changes that the Tea Party movement would endorse.

No it wasn't. You decided to play Clara Peller because you wanted to create a troll thread. You're not interested in reasoned dialogue; you're looking for stars and maybe some like-minded friends.

Let's take some excerpts from your OP and then ask ourselves: are these the comments of a curious individual who is truly interested in the Tea Party Movement?

This Tea Party movement seems very confusing, contradicting to say the least. I'm having trouble grasping just what it is that the Tea Party wants and why they chose now to demonstrate for it.

1.) They seem to be protesting the Obama administration claiming that he is raising their taxes when in fact taxes have been lowered for 95% of americans. Even Geraldo Rivera said the same thing this morning on Fox News.

2.) They seem to be protesting the new Obama Health Care Reform bill claiming that it violates the U.S. Constitution to force anyone to purchase medical insurance while polls indicate that 47% of their membership or movement supports both Medicare and Social Security. If Medicare isn't a federal mandate to purchase medical insurance through the government then I don't know what is. Why aren't they protesting Medicare for the same reasons?

3.) They seem to be protesting the Obama administration claiming that his policies are steering the nation down the path to irreconcilable debt when in fact, this current recession began in 2007 under the Bush administration. Even the CBO projected an 8 trillion dollar national debt at the end of the Bush term.

It seems awfully apparent to me that the common denominator in their protest is Barack Obama and the democratic leadership. I really don't think that it matters what the Obama administration does or doesn't do, these people will protest it just because of the fact that it is associated with Obama, whether it makes sense or not. This, I'm sorry to say, becomes more evident day by day.

To utilize an old adage, this movement seems to be "A Day Late & A Dollar Short." The people responsible for stealing America's wealth are not being held to account and not one word of protest from the Tea Party regarding that fact.

It would seem to me that seeing how they missed the bus when the nation was being robbed, they would now be protesting for "Accountability." You would think that they would be demanding the prosecution of all those that are responsible for bankrupting America.

I think that's enough. But you get the point. You come here with preconceived notions and your mind made up. Then you toss out some pablum in the form of liberal talking arguing points and say you are looking for clarification.

It's pretty apparent that you are a liberal who favors higher taxes and larger, more intrusive government. That is why you get so agitated with free-thinkers like the Tea Party Movement. If they don't fit into your pre-cast mold, you get argumentative and confused.

It is your right to carry the water for bigger government. That's fine. It's also obvious that you know that this creeping socialism you endorse won't work. You want the TPM to answer your questions, instead of asking your leader. It's not their job to answer you, sorry.

This is America. We are all free to express our political opinions. We will disagree. Just do it courteously, please.

reply to post by Flatfish

The reason you see them all now and didn't see it as much with Bush, though it was still there, is that the people have been pushed to the breaking point. Their laziness and apathy have so entangled them though that many aren't going to actually DO anything about it. Too many are also so ignorant of the corruption that they think it's actually going to be solved by simply voting "conservative republicans" back into office.

Not all of us support Medicare and Social Security. And the tax thing is a load of BS. Take a look at what the healthcare is going to do to us and then look at some of the new taxes he is planning that aren't even in affect yet, mostly dealing with sales tax. That affects everyone, including those poor that he promised would not see an increase in tax in any way.

Bailouts for private industry? I'm sorry, but if a company needs more money, they need to sell a better product. Create demand and people will buy your goods. If we don't want your crap, dont take our money via taxes and then give it to the companies that we didnt like in the first place. If you ask me, the American people should all own stock in any business that received taxpayer money. It was our money that they got after all. Anyone who supported those, republican or democrat, doesn't understand the way capitalism is supposed to work at all. Bush and Obama (though it was started long before them) have outright destroyed any semblance of the America that I used to be able to say I was proud of.

Obama's a traitor to the US and deserves the punishment rightly given those traitors. Bush should be treated similarly.

reply to post by Daytomann


Thank you for a reply, I appreciate it. While I may not agree with everything you say, having an opinion is the first step.

My confusion with the Tea Party movement is whats the point? If they are "average" Americans who all have different ideas and no real common ground, what are they attempting to accomplish?

Do they just want people to know they are mad? I keep hearing "vote them all out!" but thats not how our system works. You have to vote new people in. If you dont have a leader or voice or candidates who represent your stance on issues, how do they plan on implementing any change?

You cant change the system by saying I dont like they way things are but I dont have anyone or any ideas to help fix it.

Again thank you for a response.

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW

Like I said, the VERSION of the Tea Party you see now are the true Johnny Come Lately folks. They were Right Wingers, supporters of Bush, John Birchers, Dominionists, Zionists, Imperialists, War Mongers. They had NO interest in "Libertarian ideals until Fox and Friends made it "cool".

Wow you nailed this one. I find it so funny that Ron Paul was considered a fringe crazy by fox when bush was in office and now they have him on all the time.

I think you are right that many TPM are Republicans who lost faith in the Republicans and are looking for something new. I really cant blame them. Bush let many of the Republicans who voted for him down and then the GOP has the gall to run McCain and Palin in 2008. Two candidates that did not appeal to many of the Republicans.

Democrats had their Turd vs. Giant Douche in 2004 and Republicans had their Turd vs. Giant Douche in 2008. And after a big let down in 08, I think many jumped the GOP ship. Now the GOP realizes that they are losing many from their base to the TPM and are doing whatever they can to get some control back.

I think the TPM is going to really hurt the GOP come fall. They are going to have many past Republicans voting for a TP candidate or a Libertarian or some other 3rd party.

The Tea Party Movement might be the downfall for the Republican party.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


then the GOP has the gall to run McCain and Palin in 2008. Two candidates that did not appeal to many of the Republicans.


Why do I keep this?
Let's review, shall we?
McCain wasn't "run" by the Republicans, he won in the primaries, THE REGISTERED REPUBLICAN VOTERS voted for McCain giving him the delegates to be nominated!!!!

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

then the GOP has the gall to run McCain and Palin in 2008. Two candidates that did not appeal to many of the Republicans.

Why do I keep this?
Let's review, shall we?
McCain wasn't "run" by the Republicans, he won in the primaries, THE REGISTERED REPUBLICAN VOTERS voted for McCain giving him the delegates to be nominated!!!!

And who were the other options for the Republicans in those primaries? Mitt Romney? Huckabee? and Paul. Ron Paul was probably the best choice. And with regards to Palin, it WAS the Republican Party that choose her. McCain didnt pick her, the GOP did.

Ironically, if those primaries were re-held today, Paul would probably win by a huge margin.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


Let us drop this left, right, tp, pc, sob, et al, and carry on a discussion.
We can start with your questions and go from there. In this discussion I speak only for myself and do not in any way speak for the tea party movement. That being said, I do find that some of the tea party tenets regarding constitutional limits, agree with mine.

What is the TPM stance on public funding for roads?


Road funding is a good illustration of the federal government working inside and outside its constitutional limits, the use of federal funds to build, expand and maintain an interstate highway system, falls squarely within the commerce, and general welfare clauses. They serve not only to promote commerce across all the states, but also play roles in civil defense, evacuation routes, military troop movements, all things within federal government purview
State, county, and local roads are just that, the purview of the states, the counties and local governments. How and in what capacity they do this is up to them. This has the added bonus of making people more aware of the cost of heavy traffic road networks and puts pressure towards the development of better mass transit systems.

The Federal highway system is big enough in and of itself that controlling the graft, payoffs, memorial rest stops and pork barrel projects on just the interstate highways is a full time job. Throw state, and local road projects into the mix and let the feeding frenzy begin. Let the states explain to their citizens where all the money for roads is going.

The Interstate highway system is overall a good example of how the federal government can fulfill one of its functions under the constitution. Beyond that, the constitution gives no power to the federal government to be involved in state and local road projects other than those where federal parks, bases, and other government entities may impact road requirements,


What is the TPM stance on public parks?

Basically the same argument. Other than Federal Park lands, public parks are just that; public, and the purview of the states and local governments and the citizens of that area. The creation and upkeep of Federal park lands does fall within the powers of the federal government under the constitution.

What is the TPM stance on public libraries?

Again, other than the Library of Congress, whose role has expanded greatly and is another good example of the federal government functioning well and within its constitutional authority, State and local libraries are the responsibility of the state and local governments.
On an aside, throughout history many of the great book collections were to be found in university, and church libraries.

The common thread here is limited federal government. The constitution was written to limit as much as possible the ability of the federal government to involve itself in state matters. The founding fathers even went so far as to include the ninth and tenth amendments to the bill of rights, to make clear that those powers not given to the federal govermnet specifically by the constitution were the purview of the states, and the citizens. The mess we find ourselves in now can be laid at the feet of the federal government overstepping its constitutional authority but is better laid at the feet of the states, and the citizens for allowing it to do so. From the vast amount of bills coming out of state legislatures that deal with state rights overriding federal mandates I believe the states have become concerned and are taking the first steps in the long process of trying to rein in the federal government.

thats all for now.

reply to post by iamcamouflage

My confusion with the Tea Party movement is whats the point? If they are "average" Americans who all have different ideas and no real common ground, what are they attempting to accomplish?

Because big things start out from two guys talking on a street corner. Same thing here. The TPM is young; give them time to grow and set their own goals. They do not have to grow at the pace *you* set.

reply to post by Phedreus

Let us drop this left, right, tp, pc, sob, et al, and carry on a discussion.

Says the member with the right-wing avatar, mocking Obama and the left.

I appreciate your responses and I will address them with more detail tomorrow as I am going to sleep.

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

My confusion with the Tea Party movement is whats the point? If they are "average" Americans who all have different ideas and no real common ground, what are they attempting to accomplish?

Because big things start out from two guys talking on a street corner. Same thing here. The TPM is young; give them time to grow and set their own goals. They do not have to grow at the pace *you* set.

And generally those two guys talking on the corner starting a big movement have detailed opinions on what they believe and what they want to accomplish.

If you dont have a mission, or direction with what you want to accomplish, you are going to have a tough road to hoe.

Guy 1: "Hey, do you dislike bad things?"
Guy 2: "Yeah, I hate bad things!"
Guy 1: "Me too. Lets get more people who dislike bad things and then tell people we want things to be good."
Guy 2: "What a great idea. How do we make bad things good?"
Guy 1: "Well we just tell people that we want bad things to be good."

reply to post by iamcamouflage

And generally those two guys talking on the corner starting a big movement have detailed opinions on what they believe and what they want to accomplish.

Nah, they don't. They may think they do, but they change their minds a dozen times a minute, whether they realize it or not.

My point is, unless you're dedicated to helping the TPM reach it's final form, your criticism of everything about them is pointless. They are a long way from being 'done', and they will have fun along the way, helping to turn this country back from the mess Obama has put it in.

The party that loses the election always becomes the opposition party. Partisan or not, stay away from the opposition party. I don't care if the tea party is dem, pub, green, 3rd or communist, they're the opposition party.