Tea Party, Where's The Beef?

Originally posted by Phedreus
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

I find that people that cannot comeup with a reasoned arguement go straight for the race card, or other pc device.

I'm sorry but painting Obama as Hitler or Lenin in disguise cannot be met with a "reasoned" argument, because it's BS. If you talk about "socialist" Obama, let me tell you, you have not a slightest clue about socialism. It's about as absurd as saying that he's in reality a vampire. I'm sure some of tea party goers would believe that, too.

We are not dimwits, we have made the choice to be educated, work hard, and look to ourselves for what we want in life rather than require others to give it to us.

Where is content in all of this? Most people I know (if not all) are like that, and not a single one is remotely a "tea person".

The fact that I am better able to provide for myself and my family does not give you the right to require more from me in taxes than you would of anyone else.

First of, I didn't steal a penny of yours. I'm in a fairly high tax bracket, by the way. Second, did Obama double your tax or something?

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
but how can you say those horrible things about a group of people you don't know, people like me that just want the government to stop spending and get out of every single thing in our lives?

A recession is a pretty rotten point in time to slash spending. Of course, the tea people are all armchair economists and know better. Bleh.

reply to post by Flatfish


Excellent first thread! Well-done.

And I agree with you. The current Tea Party is just an Obama hate group. Otherwise known as the GOP.

What continues to absolutely shock me, are the survey's indicating the majority of the tea party movement are educated, middle class folks.

I would never have guessed this, and am perplexed to the high degree that I actually question the source of the survey's or their accuracy, at any rate. I would have thought this movement was made primarily of uneducated, lower-class folks. Something about their value systems just simply rings...of lack of education and intellect.

Guess I called this one wrong. *shrugs*. (Maybe).

In any event it becomes clear that it's not just the Right anymore....it's the far, far, extremely almost off the chart Right. The so-right it's -wrong-right.

What can I tell ya. I'm not a fan.

Maybe this isn't the greatest idea i've had, but ....

I have given serious consideration to obtaining a KKK "uniform/costume" and going to a TEA PARTY public gathering dressed as a KKK member while holding up a giant sign:

I LOVE PRESIDENT OBAMA


What kind of reception do you think that would create?
What would TEA PARTY members think, since they hold up Hitler/Obama signs themselves??

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Flatfish


Oh you hit it on the nail there. When the next Republican comes into office watch these tea party folk return to their lives of bliss, and don't expect them to ever come out until the next Democrat (who likely isnt a Southern white male again).

The tea parties are a GOP astroturf campaign, but then again most of ATS has come to that conclusion. Some still deny while others find themselves unable to deny any longer. There are a small minority of folks who have real concerns, who were opposed to the Bush administration who are protesting now, but they are but a small minority, and even they are in denial that this group is just another hack of the party movement. Maybe these folks are tired of being dissappointed and just will take it as it is this time around, but its the fact of the matter.

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
If you are having trouble grasping the stand of citizens who identify with the Tea Party, then you are not that bright.

We are tired of the Federal Government systematically seizing power from individuals and from the States of the Union and centralizing that usurped power into the hands of few political elites and their sycophants.

The election of an obvious anti-American, marxist to the Oval Office was the tipping point for many citizens. That is why the movement has grown so quickly. Because the enemies of freedom and the destroyers of The Constitution have stepped up their game.

Or would you prefer we just wait forever and never act? Obama was a catalyst because of his incredible hatred of America. At least the other criminals at least pretended to love this country.

We're not buying the snake oil Washington, DC is selling.

It has grown so quickly because you are the same batch of brain dead retards who wanted to retaliate against Iraq for 9/11. Same thing, stop playing, you have resigned yourself to group think and clearly you are full of crap.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Phedreus
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

I find that people that cannot comeup with a reasoned arguement go straight for the race card, or other pc device.

I'm sorry but painting Obama as Hitler or Lenin in disguise cannot be met with a "reasoned" argument, because it's BS. If you talk about "socialist" Obama, let me tell you, you have not a slightest clue about socialism. It's about as absurd as saying that he's in reality a vampire. I'm sure some of tea party goers would believe that, too.

We are not dimwits, we have made the choice to be educated, work hard, and look to ourselves for what we want in life rather than require others to give it to us.

Where is content in all of this? Most people I know (if not all) are like that, and not a single one is remotely a "tea person".

The fact that I am better able to provide for myself and my family does not give you the right to require more from me in taxes than you would of anyone else.

First of, I didn't steal a penny of yours. I'm in a fairly high tax bracket, by the way. Second, did Obama double your tax or something?

I nor the overwhelming majority of tea party members have not and do not compare President Obama with Hitler or Lenin. How many times have I listened as the left decried being characterized by the fringe groups inherent in any political entity?


Yes I do have knowledge of and experience with both the definition and implementation of Socialism. By definition, President Obama along with the current Congress, has finished what has been a slow decent towards Socialism by this country. This country is a Socialist Nation.
On the Cover of Newsweek several months back was a huge headline, “We are all Socialist Now” Now if you can’t trust Newsweek well I just don’t know what this world is coming to.

I am sure that there are well educated, hard working citizens out there that do not agree with many of the tenets of the tea party. The statement in no way implied there wasn’t. What it did imply and disprove, is the MSM’s, and the Democratic Party’s desperate attempt to marginalize this movement. These people are not closet racist or dumb hicks marching to the tune of some talk show host. They too are well educated, hardworking, citizens, just as you find on the other side, and perhaps if you listen first then you might find their premise and arguments to be strong and convincing.

The pronoun “you” in that statement is used in the second person plural, nominative case, signifying people in general. Sorry you took it personally. However you do make a good example, you were immediately offended that I would think of you as one who would take money they haven’t earned. You also were quick to inform us of your high tax bracket and the underlying meanings that statement includes, education, work ethic, ECT. You understand at a core level that to be thought otherwise was shameful. You are proud of what you have accomplished and been rewarded for. So Are We!


Finally speaking only for myself, as a well educated, reasoned, free man, I stand offended that my government would demand of me, without any constitutional authority , that I subsidize others who I would by my own moral and reasoned judgment find unworthy of that help. I stand offended that my government would by continuing to ignore the 9th and 10th amendment, take away my free choice in matters that are the sole domain of free men; not governments. I stand offended that my government would think me of such poor moral character and intelligence that I would stand mute and appeased while the free men of a once free nation are sold into slavery to the government that was suppose to be “by, of and for the people” We have forgotten that as is the nature of the universe, all things, freedom included, come at a price and require effort to maintain. Government is not there to ensure life, liberty and happiness; it is there to ensure free men have the right to seek each of these in their own way, with the least interference from others. It is in no way there to be used to ensure that people succeed in reaching these goals.


“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

Damn these guys were GOOD!!

reply to post by Phedreus


Here's your TPM!

www.youtube.com...


To me that video exemplifies the soul of the TPM!

And as a producer for my local Cable channel, I have covered most of the local TPM meetings in my area and my soundman a young black man has endured the racist catcalling with exceptional grace and style.







[edit on 16-4-2010 by whaaa]

The tea party doesn't exist.

That's the thing both "sides" of this "argument" don't seem to understand.

There is no tea party. There is no organization. There sure as shooting isn't any money, otherwise somebody would have been getting paid last night instead of volunteering.

The political left has already lost this battle. Anymore, when they try and tell "tea-partiers" who they really are, they're met with the same gentle condescension that you have to use with five-year-olds who insist on telling you some rambling kid-story: "That's nice, very nice. I'm so glad you shared."

It's over. The tea partiers don't care about what the MSM says about them; at this point, it has become about as relevant to reality as their reporting that the sky is now green would have been today. They've given up on reporting news, and as such have already decided their fate as news outlets. It's only a matter of time before they and their masters both are set out on the curb.

November is coming.

reply to post by Flatfish


Thank you for making this thread, you beat me to it as I was considering something similar.

I would like to say I'm not opposed to a grass roots movement of a third party whether it be the TPM or anything else but my problem with the TPM is there lack of direction or stance on issues.

I was posting here asking questions to any TPM supporter and apparently my questions killed the thread, so i hope it doesnt do the same to yours.

The following is re-posted from the thread linked above and I would love for a TPM supporter to do their best answering some of these questions.

Thanks

I would love to know what the Tea Party stands for and I want details. Please for the love of FSM, do not say "smaller govt" and "lower taxes". I want details!

What is the TPM stance on the war? Defense? and Spending associated with it?

What EXACTLY does smaller govt mean? Smaller federal govt? Smaller State govt? Smaller local govt?

With regards to lower taxes, How low? What programs will be cut from lowering all of these taxes?

I recently heard that of each dollar of federal taxes, about 50% is medicare, medicaid and SS. And about 20% is defense/military spending. of that 70% what would the tea party cut out? The remaining 30% represents all other govt agencies and spending. What would the TPM do with that 30%? What will be cut?

What is the TPM stance on financial regulation?

What is the TPM stance on campaign finance reform?

What is the TPM stance on the war on drugs?

What is the TPM stance on public funding for roads?

What is the TPM stance on public parks?

What is the TPM stance on public libraries?

What is the TPM stance on public funding for police?

What is the TPM stance on public funding for fire depts?

What is the TPM stance on public funding for first responders?

I can come up with more questions but this is just a start.



I am not kidding I have been asking these questions over and over whenever i can to posts online or when speaking to people who support the TPM and not once have I received any intelligent responses. They just repeat the Sarah Palin-esque responses of "smaller govt", "lower taxes", etc.

Will someone who supports the TPM, please answer these questions and show me where the TPM has put any of these answers in writing.

I have been to several of the so called "official" TPM websites and not one has an actual mission statement that declares where they stand on any of these issues. They just repeat, "smaller govt" and "lower taxes".

reply to post by whaaa


Oh my god, that was absolutely disgusting.

I know that those retards don't represent the entirety of the Tea Party movement, but if they even represent 5%, then its about time for these fools to stop. There is a warm place in hell reserved for people like that.

I also can't believe that your sound guy catches flack just for being black. Well, actually I can believe it. It just sickens me.

Sometimes I just lose all faith in humanity.

reply to post by Flatfish


Its OK that you are confused. Frustrating, but OK.

I'm a Taxed Enough Already Party supporter. I've been having to do alot of educating on the movement to people I know because of all the attention its getting. Thats good and bad. Good because its alot of attention, causing some interest among people who didnt really know about it. Bad because the MSM and TPTB are doing all they can to muddy the movement...causing some confusion.

Keep in mind...half of the people who claim to be Tea Partyers
are Independants or Democrats..the other half Republicans...so this is NOT some partisan movement. We want to weed out the culprits on BOTH sides.

To your points..
1) Bless Geraldo for doing his part on FOX. He's one of the more left leaning "reporters" on the network. BUT regarldess of the claim and spin that taxes have been lowered for 95% of Americans...thats NOT going to be the case for long. You just CAN NOT do this kind of spending without drastically rasing taxes. Keep in mind..."taxes" doesnt just mean "income taxes"..although they will be raised for all as well. Look for new gasoline taxes, VAT, Cap & Trade for just a few examples, not to mention the Bush tax cuts expire. And even if you are one of the lucky people who dont pay taxes, it isnt fair to un justly tax the top wage earners into oblivion. I've never been employed by a poor person.

2) The main thing about HC is that its over reaching, its too expensive and most importantly, IT WAS REJECTED by the majority of Americans...but that little fact didnt matter. Medicare and Social Security are noble programs but have been mutated into monsters that they never intended to be. They both need reform. SS is now paying out more than they take in. It was never intended to be an entitlement program..the way it was invisioned, it could have actually turned a profit for the Gov. But its never been adjusted to keep with its original intented purpose of helping the lucky few who lived pastthe average age of the time to retire and open up a job for someone younger. The average life expectancey of a male at that time was like 63, SS didnt kick in untill age 65. When the right tried to reform it...the left pulled a hissy fit of epic proportions. Medicare is another bloated program of SS.

3) We all know (most of us anyways) that the recession started under Bush. I am one who couldnt believe that the Reps sold out under Dem control of Congress. And a war that lasted too long did not help. Lowering taxes were the feel good method of economic growth but it was unsustainable. Look, we know this, we're NOT happy about it. The spending was out of control...but now we have this new power in control and they are taking what Bush started and have pushed it into overdrive. So we have to act now, before its too late...hence the TEA party movement.

Theres a ton of problems, this system is broken. Simpley put, we want all the progressive big government wackos out. We want all the RINO pretenders out. We want fiscal responsibility, be it from the DEMS or the REPS. We're just looking for someone to listen and give us the proof that they can be sensible.
Yes Obama and the current progressives and the RINOs in power ARE the common denominators because evrything they do makes NO sense and is pushing us faster and faster over the cliff thatthe last admin steered us towards.
As far as the other stuff you bring up about Bush?? To quote Obama.."Uh, the election is over" Time to move on and look at getting our country back on track.

Many of the people who robbed us are still there, and they continue to do so, plus more have joined them. This whole system is full of theives, leaches, poverty pimps, Marxists, thugs, Fascists, extremists....doesnt matter what party..most of them HAVE to go. They are not listening to us.
We have to fix this.
AND now I'm out of characters..

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Don't you people realize by now that this is all in your head?

Obama obviously isn't a Marxist. Name a single thing he has done since taking office that is Communist. Name one thing.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by drwizardphd]

How about 3 things.....

Americans are a moral people; we care, we have big hearts. So if there's a problem — say, global warming — you've got to sell it to people: You don't want to hurt the planet, do you? How do you fix it? Ecological justice. What is ecological justice? Cap-and-trade: The United States — a country with a lot of wealth — will go to a country with no wealth... and we'll buy their air. Wow, that sounds like socialism or the forced redistribution of wealth, which is Marxism.

Health care: Don't you just want to help people without health care? Yes, I do — I don't want to see anyone hurt. I want to help. Well, they can't afford it — we need economic justice to fix it. Now wait, that sounds like socialism or the forced redistribution of wealth, which is Marxism.

Education: Who doesn't want to help people get an education? Some people didn't have an opportunity to get an education. It's just about social justice and balancing the scales. No, it actually sounds like socialism which is the forced redistribution of wealth, which is Marxism


Well, 2 out of 3....so far...isnt bad.

These people in power may not be "Socialists" or "Marxists" in the literal defenition. But their beliefs have roots there. Their actions sure do resemble them to a point.

[edit on 17-4-2010 by Daytomann]

Originally posted by Flatfish
1.) They seem to be protesting the Obama administration claiming that he is raising their taxes when in fact taxes have been lowered for 95% of americans. Even Geraldo Rivera said the same thing this morning on Fox News.

Even though you are given the perception of lower taxes you must take fisher into account.

real interest

In reality your being hit with a hidden tax that is decreasing the value of your money.

Enough!
enough of the fiction that the "tea party" in not partisan.
enough of the fiction it's not extreme right wing.
enough that it's a meaningful movement.
It was stillborn.
It's about opposing Obama.
The problem is not so much BIG GOVERNMENT, ITS BIG BUSINESS!
Big business that dictates policy to government, that pays millions every day in lobbiest bribes.
You "tea Partiers' are tools of corporations that care nothing about Constitutional restraints, freedom or even this Nation itself!
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtains! The Wall Street bankers, the stock traders, the money maniuplators that came out of this financial mess richer than ever!
Noooo! Fall for the free market is patriotic lie, hate Obama, blame liberals, stay divided propaganda crowd
BS that you swallow from the Republicans, THE VERY CROWD THAT STOLE YOUR MONEY AND IS RICHER NOW THAN EVER!
HINT: Get big business under control, and you will have big government under control.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
A recession is a pretty rotten point in time to slash spending. Of course, the tea people are all armchair economists and know better. Bleh.

So people do not have the right to disagree? We all should be happy that they are questioning government. I like it when people question even things I believe in for it is called checks and balances.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage

I would love to know what the Tea Party stands for and I want details. Please for the love of FSM, do not say "smaller govt" and "lower taxes". I want details!

What is the TPM stance on the war? Defense? and Spending associated with it?

What EXACTLY does smaller govt mean? Smaller federal govt? Smaller State govt? Smaller local govt?

With regards to lower taxes, How low? What programs will be cut from lowering all of these taxes?

I recently heard that of each dollar of federal taxes, about 50% is medicare, medicaid and SS. And about 20% is defense/military spending. of that 70% what would the tea party cut out? The remaining 30% represents all other govt agencies and spending. What would the TPM do with that 30%? What will be cut?

What is the TPM stance on financial regulation?

What is the TPM stance on campaign finance reform?

What is the TPM stance on the war on drugs?

What is the TPM stance on public funding for roads?

What is the TPM stance on public parks?

What is the TPM stance on public libraries?

What is the TPM stance on public funding for police?

What is the TPM stance on public funding for fire depts?

What is the TPM stance on public funding for first responders?

I can come up with more questions but this is just a start.



I am not kidding I have been asking these questions over and over whenever i can to posts online or when speaking to people who support the TPM and not once have I received any intelligent responses. They just repeat the Sarah Palin-esque responses of "smaller govt", "lower taxes", etc.

Will someone who supports the TPM, please answer these questions and show me where the TPM has put any of these answers in writing.

I have been to several of the so called "official" TPM websites and not one has an actual mission statement that declares where they stand on any of these issues. They just repeat, "smaller govt" and "lower taxes".

LOL!!! Uh dude, I think youre over analysing TPM movement juuuust a little. Keep in mind its made up of Indys, Dems and Reps. Theres just too many variables in the details to get consensus on the "details" you are wanting. It really is as simple as wanting "smaller govt", "lower taxes", "fiscal responsibility", "accountability", etc. Its a movement to get some freakin honor and integrity back into the beltway. I dont understand whats so hard to understand about that.
Dont you understand that if a Democrat stood up for these BASICS, that they could easily get a backing from TPM?
Please, dont over analyze......All those "stances" you list are afterthoughts and better left to the career politicians to answer rather than us simple Tea Partyers.

If you want a broad representation of where an average TPM stands, think Libertarian..with a conservative lean.
Well thats about where I stand anyway, the guy standing next to me at a rally might be something completely opposite...oh well thats the TPM for ya.

[edit on 17-4-2010 by Daytomann]

[edit on 17-4-2010 by Daytomann]

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by buddhasystem
A recession is a pretty rotten point in time to slash spending. Of course, the tea people are all armchair economists and know better. Bleh.

So people do not have the right to disagree? We all should be happy that they are questioning government. I like it when people question even things I believe in for it is called checks and balances.

Questioning is the easy part. Providing alternative answers to those questions is what takes intellect and critical thinking. I am all for people pointing out what is wrong with govt but if you dont have any alternate suggestions or cannot get behind someone who does, you might as well be arguing with your refrigerator.

Any Tea Party supporters care to answer any of the questions I have listed?

We cant really have an honest discussion if I dont know where the members of this movement stand.

reply to post by OldDragger


I just sat down for five minutes trying to craft a response to OldDragger's post above. I really, really wanted to make the attempt to engage, to figure out which logic-centers might still be firing and which ones were fully abandoned to emotive self-congratulation. "Facts," I thought. "I'll start there!"

So, I went looking for facts. Lo and behold, all I came away with were well-weathered talking points and false dilemmas.

I know it's fun to think without boundaries. It may feel as though you live in a borderless world where the only thing that matters is how much that you care. But listen. If you want to communicate with people, it takes more than just being really passionate. It takes critical thinking.

You're going to have to go out and find out how to do it yourself, this critical thinking. They don't teach it in the gubment schools, and you're definitely going to have a hard time deriving its essential axioms from absorbing pop culture and regurgitating it to your acquaintances. Start with Plato, work your way up. That's how we did it in the old days, before everybody went stupid.

Oh, Dialectic. How I long for the days when people still cared about you.