Sovereign Citizen vs Diplomatic Immunity

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posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:25 AM
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to go more in detail let's examine the definition of both.



The word "sovereign" is defined in the 6th edition of Black's Law Dictionary, published in
1990, as being, "A person, body, or state in which independent authority is vested; a chief
ruler with supreme power; a king or other ruler in a monarchy."

www.civil-liberties.com...




Diplomatic immunity is a form of legal immunity and a policy held between governments,
which ensures that diplomats are given safe passage and are considered not susceptible
to lawsuit or prosecution under the host country's laws (although they can be expelled).

en.wikipedia.org...


So if you are a Sovereign Citizen then you are the King of your domain
independent of anybody else's authority. So according to this
definition would you not also be considered by the US Government
to be a Diplomat of your domain? If so, then why don't Sovereign Citizens
have Diplomatic Immunity?

I just recently saw where a foreign diplomat aboard an airliner
tried to light his shoe on fire and was tackled by 2 Air Marshals.
Then later released due to diplomatic immunity, then I see how
the Sovereign Citizen is being demonized on the FBI website
as a terrorist threat. This does not make sense to me.
Can somebody please enlighten me.




posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:31 AM
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It really is simple OP. The United States government does not recognize Sovereign Citizens. They do not exist in the eyes of your government or mine. Even citizens that have no nation, they are not considered to be nations unto themselves.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
It really is simple OP. The United States government does not recognize Sovereign Citizens. They do not exist in the eyes of your government or mine. Even citizens that have no nation, they are not considered to be nations unto themselves.


u r partially right

there are some Sovereign Citizens who have their own
Sovereign Land. It is like a country unto itself.
A prime example of this is Indian reservations.
They make their own laws and have their own rulers
and diplomats according to their heritage.

So an Indian on his own land is a Sovereign Citizen.
So why shouldn't a normal US citizen that becomes
a Sovereign Citizen with his own land not be granted
Diplomatic Immunity??



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:52 AM
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I believe the reason I've had explained to me for this one is that Indian Reservations are some form of protectorate in the United States, and so are more like your overseas territories than fully independent nations. I could be wrong about that but I am sure that there is someone here on ATS that knows the laws relating to reservations fully.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by ProjectJimmy
 


it's not just Indian Reservations.
there are the Mormon estates,
there are Amish Nations in PA
the list goes on and on



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 04:42 AM
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Wouldn't they just boot you out of the country?

Ok your a sovereign citizen, we have no formal relations with your government therefore you have to leave till we recognize your government.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


Or would it be more like the Queen of England? As I understand it, the monarch doesn't travel with any kid of passport, much less a diplomatic one. I could be wrong, but I don't think the Pope does either. Anybody know for sure? Maybe being treated as a sovereign is more of a shared perception.

gj



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by ganjoa
 


Probably would have to have the state department of whatever government agree to let you do that. As is my point.

Sure, you can be a sovereign citizen. Guess what? You don't get the protections under the country you inhabit.

Go ahead, be a sovereign citizen. See how far that gets you...

Pulled over? Well you aren't a citizen of the United States, you are a Sovereign Citizen, which means you aren't allowed to have a drivers license. Issued by a State. Have to detain you till the State Department decides what to do with you.

I am just seeing a whole big problem with this plan. Sure if you are the Queen of England or the Pope, you might have some street cred to use, but are you the Queen of England, or the Pope? NO? Well I think the State Department might tell you to go [snip] yourself and put you in a jail until they can either deport you to a country that will have you or you admit you are a citizen of the United States and subject under the laws of the United States.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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A "sovereign citizen" is not a United States citizen, therefore if they step onto US soil they are illegal immigrants. Sovereignty, as Black's Law Dictionary quoted in the OP correctly points out, is a quality of a state, not an individual. A US citizen can legally renounce their citizenship in a US embassy, but they must then acquire citizenship in another country and abide by those laws. They cannot return to US soil without a valid passport and visa from their new country, and are subject to the same laws as any other visitor.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by DJW001
A "sovereign citizen" is not a United States citizen, therefore if they step onto US soil they are illegal immigrants.


see my point

that is where diplomatic immunity
should be applied.

There are thousands of people who
get diplomatic immunity here on US
Soil and they are a sovereign citizen
of a foreign nation. Why is that any
different than being a sovereign citizen
of your own nation?



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 04:21 PM
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There is nothing automatic about Diplomatic immunity. Its a courtesy not a right and can be revoked. I've got a buddy who got into the whole "sovereign" thing about a decade ago. Because when he was in his early 20's he was breaking into houses and got caught. So he declared himself "sovereign" and carried a gun (illegal since he was a convicted felon), didn't pay his taxes ( IRS frowns on this), didn't pay his child support (state and ex wife frowns upon this), and drove around without a license. Can you guess how this turned out? I'm sure you can but i'll fill in the blanks anyway. He got pulled over, and taken to jail because driving without a license is illegal. They then charged him because he had a concealed pistol and was a felon. After spending a good bit of time in and out of jail due to these offenses the IRS came after him and garnished his wages, his wife did the same for back child support and after a DECADE he's STILL trying to play catch up. If you don't like taxes, don't like safe roads or services don't use them. But don't be suprised when you DO use them (often extensively) and get called on it. Just my 2cents.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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If you File a U.C.C. -1 against your STRAW MAN SELF, and then file several other documents to encapsulate that U.C.C.-1 claim of controlling Interests over your STRAW MAN SELF - i.e. File Declarations, original birth Cerificates, Liens, Copyright, Negative Averments, and Trusts (plus a whole lot more documents I can't remember off hand)- all geared towards taking back the control of the STRAW MAN SELF, and Make the claim that you are a Citizen of the (State you live in )(Bill of Rights guaranteeing Inalienable Rights) and not known as a Citizen of (the united States of America)(14th Amendment, granting 'Civil Rights' to 'Civilians'), making the claim under Legally accepted documentation that promotes Common Law Governance over you - you'd have made yourself technically into what American's originally were: A De Jour Citizen possessing Inalienable Rights as a Citizen of (The State you live in), A Freeman on the Land, and "Born abroad", outside of the united States.

You would then nullify any licenses, registrations, and permits that would legally interfere with your unbound and Incorporated self

That being done, one would then apply for a passport that represents them as a Natural Born Citizen (of the State you live in), that they then would approach their local U.S. Embassy and apply for an apostille endorsement for said passport, declaring themselves as an ambassador to the united States representing the (State you were born in), having a notorized and A4V Stamped copy of your original State Issued Birth Certificate(s) (Preferably both Corporate as well as Government Certifications, AKA Hospital and State Issued).

That apostille grants you status of diplomat, and the status of diplomatic Immunity would then be without dispute.

I didn't cover all the glorious details about how this is done, but I'm sure folks can get the gist that it's a hard road to take, and an equally as hard road to tread, but it does have it's benefits.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by DarkspARCS
 

thank you Dark
star for u

so it's just a matter of paperwork between diplomatic
immunity and being sovereign.



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ganjoa
 




Pulled over? Well you aren't a citizen of the United States, you are a Sovereign Citizen, which means you aren't allowed to have a drivers license. Issued by a State. Have to detain you till the State Department decides what to do with you.


Actually you dont need a drivers license to travel the land freely.



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by DarkspARCS
If you File a U.C.C. -1 against your STRAW MAN SELF


snip a whole lot of silly claims - what you claim just does nothing at all except make some people money



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by DarkspARCS
 



My good sir can you explain to me how to do the last step of this? i did everything with the ucc1 but i want the card with diplomatic immunity, how do i complete the last steps from the passport as a natural born citizen and beyond?



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 09:21 PM
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457freeman
reply to post by DarkspARCS
 



My good sir can you explain to me how to do the last step of this? i did everything with the ucc1 but i want the card with diplomatic immunity, how do i complete the last steps from the passport as a natural born citizen and beyond?



To get it you would need to be from a country that has US diplomatic recognition and a member of Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. If your nation does not meet both of these, the US can sign a seperate treaty with your nation such as in the case of Taiwan. Of course the US is not going give a treaty to some random guy off the street who thinks he is a nation.





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