A thread about Science! Must see!!!

This is a thread about some people who claim that "ALL science is WRONG", which they then go and claim "Here is the real science". These people, who in my opinion, are uneducated them selves go against everything that they said by just saying the next thing.

Yes I know there might be the one mistake that they had but are they really going to say that ALL science is wrong just for that one scrap of evidence.

The thing that actually showed us how smart they actually are was their criticism of Einstein. I mean it obvious that only an unintelligent person would call a highly intelligent person retarded now is it?

Einstein's theories are one of the most highly tested there are. I think that the only theories that are even tested more than Einstein's are thermodynamics and motion.

Just stop it please it is pointless and, unfortunately for them, shows just us how smart they are.

The all of science is wrong concept doesnt do itself any credit by attempting to be squashed into short statements which lead to it being misunderstood. Its about the paradigm, the reductionist materialistic approach being fundamentally flawed and having a low yet broad ceiling in how far it will take us to understand the big questions, explaninations that "fit" and understanding being two totally different things.

Einstein was his own biggest critic. One would be unwise to call him retarted because he didnt himself cling onto his claims the way people do today, he expressed his dissatisfaction and didnt fall for defending it like a fundamentalist the way many today do.

The biggest misdirection I ever had about science was while studying it at what Americans call "college" I ended up changin to engineering even though I was just about to graduate due to my disatisfaction in the science education but didnt have words for why at the time. Now I realize its a philosophical issue, and the more one specializes in a certain feild the more they loose the big picture. One doesnt even need to learn the intricacies of science to claim the approach as being fundamentally flawed. But one probably does need a certain level of experiance to witness the widespread manipulation of science by TPTB which has been going on for a long time and IMO science gets more manipulation than polotics and economics combined because its the biggest threat in terms of humanity waking up to the hidden knowledge and rejecting their slave status.

Dont forget how lopsided the agrument about science is, many who realize the folly move on quickly and dont bother to stay behind and rigerously defend their belief with the blinding passion scentists do. Its like watching a fundamntalist christian defending the bible sometimes, most athiests just dont bother even starting an argument, so im beginnning to wonder why I posted this it is unlikely my short couple of paragraphs will ever change the view of a fundamentalist, moreover they shoudlnt, out of respect of your intelligence ill say your going to need ALOT of rigorous research to come to the conclusion of just how little science knows, and just how wrong it is. Remember im not claiming its not a good observation predictor and apparent explainer of phenomena. Its leads to a plethora of "toys" like this computer, but in no way am I saying for the toy to work scince is right. Many of explanations can "fit" but not have any understanding of the real situation. The thousnands anomalies are a good hint at why our current explanations are not good enough. Here are 13 I support the "all of science is wrong" claimes in so far as most of mainstream western science being wrong but wouldnt ever say it because there is no way in hell a few little paragraphs on a thread would back up my claim.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by polarwarrior]

The Ether theory of Tesla is locked up.
Thus we do not know science of 20th century as he discovered.
And we will not ever find out if we do not ask for it.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
The Ether theory of Tesla is locked up.
Thus we do not know science of 20th century as he discovered.
And we will not ever find out if we do not ask for it.

Tesla is quite easily solved
with the tools of the philosopher.
By using the approach of what can
we know, what do we know, and lastly
what is it that we do not know, or can't know.

To do this I will tell a little tale of two other
philosophers separated by time n place,
the first being Leibniz and the second
being Einstein. Why relativity?

The following is just a story.


Gottfried Leibniz
advocates the Monad.
If one takes a glass of water
sprinkles particles into it and swirls
the glass around, then places the glass
down on a table top and looks straight down
into it, we see the particles swirl around patterning
like a small galaxy. According to the Monad theory
this is because all other inertia has been neutralized by
the swirl and the only gravity left to affect the particles are
those from the stars of our own universe. Hence they reflect that.

Albert Einstein
advocates Brownian Motion.
If one takes a glass of water and
sprinkles particles into it, but just let
the glass sit undisturbed on the table and
view it from the side, we see the particles settle.
But not all. Some of them move in random patterns
even though the water is still. This is because the atoms
of water are in constant motion but the particles are so large.
Like a huge balloon being randomly bounced around at a concert.


Leibniz' approach contains too many variables and too many assumptions.
Einsteins' approach has fewer variables, is easier to reproduce and
doesn't require some nebulous large unmeasurable group of
forces like the gravity off all stars in our own galaxy.
Teslas' use of the Aether and vortexes within
that Aether is similar to Leibniz' Monad.
It is unmeasurable, and presumed.
Great progress has been made
in electricity by using the
more measurable
approach.

This brings us
to Maxwell's equations.
Simplified, consistent results
for everyone who reproduces the
experiments, and we wouldn't have
modern electronics theory without it.

So the question is not which one is right,
or which one is closer to reality but
which one can we make progress
with, with the tools we have,
and the science available.

Now if someone could
build up a set of
measurements
for the Aether
then maybe
Tesla can
be used.


David Grouchy

Tesla did measure the ether and we can still read his publications.
The problem is with people not understanding English.
But good typing.
Ether is the medium:
Flunking the Debunker

Boggles if we had the rest of his library and labs.
And think of all the more typing opportunities.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Ether is the medium:
Flunking the Debunker

Interesting link.
Bookmarked for study.
I'll probably be back on in a week
to bump this thread with my conclusions.


David Grouchy

Now Tesla in his own words.

In his younger years Nikola sensed the universe was,

"composed of a symphony of alternating currents with the harmonies played on a vast range of octaves. The 60-cycles-per-second AC was but a single note in a lower octave. In one of the higher octaves at a frequency of billions of cycles per second was visible light. To explore this whole range of electrical vibration between his low-frequency alternating current and light waves, he sensed, would bring him closer to an understanding of the cosmic symphony."

Tesla was critical of Einstein's relativity work, calling it:

...magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king ... its exponents are brilliant men but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists ...

Tesla also argued:

I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can have no properties. It might as well be said that God has properties. He has not, but only attributes and these are of our own making. Of properties we can only speak when dealing with matter filling the space. To say that in the presence of large bodies space becomes curved is equivalent to stating that something can act upon nothing. I, for one, refuse to subscribe to such a view.

A conclusion with Tesla's own words, about why there is no theory to be found in his "missing papers."

“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.”

What Tesla did beleive

Nikola Tesla is discoverer of radio and remote control, so important for computer guided spaceships from mission control centers. Nikola Tesla is the father of radio astronomy, in his laboratory in Colorado Springs, Colorado, in 1899 he recorded cosmic radio waves. The cosmic radio waves were emitted from hydroxyl molecules of interstellar gas clouds and the envelopes of Red Giant Stars. They are very important for the exploration of cosmos. The BBC film Masters of the Ionosphere features Nikola Tesla as the first scientist who utilized the ionosphere for the scientific purposes. The ionosphere is the ionic-charged part of the atmosphere, important for the transmission of radio waves. Nikola Tesla signaled Mars by radio, he spent fifty years of his life to establish communications among of the planets by means of radio.

Here is a link to one of his actual lectures

On Light and Other High Frequency Phenomena


In his sunset years, Tesla believed that all matter came from a primary substance, the luminiferous ether, which filled all space.

That is to say, the vibration we call light. As is clearly shown in his criticism of Einstein he did not beleive that space was made up of anything. But the luminiferous ether filled it. So we are not talking about subspace Ether as is laboriously described in William Layne's "Occult Ether Physics."


David Grouchy

Science isn't wrong. The only thing wrong about science is its exposure to the public eye. Science is purely privatized by the folks who invest in the research. Its purely up to the individual or individuals who made the investment to go public with the data they have uncovered. These folks have two options... benefit MANKIND or abuse MANKIND through scientific deception.

Science might be wrong as all those (I don't know how many)
sticking with Tesla's research are still awaiting answers.

Tesla must have had better detection methods than today
with his high voltage and ether detection methods.

And his deductions more reasonable and truthful than today perhaps.
In his own words:

1935-08-18: Expanding Sun Will Explode Someday Tesla Predicts (Kivonatok a cikkből)

Activating Rays Linked to Sun When radio-active phenomena were
discovered I was prepared to view them merely as secondary effects of an
external radiation, and as no trace of such a disturbance could be detected
on earth I concluded that the primary activating rays were of cosmic origin
and most likely to eminate from suns closely resembling our luminary. As
the first step toward clearing up the mystery I undertook to ascertain
whether the sun was charged to a potential sufficiently high to produce the
tremendous electro-static repulsion which I had found to be the only force in
nature capable of accounting for the phenomena. The subject required
extended investigation, but I finally ascertained with a reasonable degree of
certitude, and to my amazement, that the sun was at a constant positive
potential of about 216,000,000,000 volts. Thus the secret of the cosmic rays
was revealed. Owing to its immense charge, the sun imparts to minute
positively electrified particles prodigious velocities which are governed only
by the ratio between the quantity of free electricity carried by the particles
and their mass, some attaining a speed exceeding fifty times that of
light

Tesla said the Sun is the source and not the universe of suns for the
particles due to its closeness and voltage if one reads further if I
recall. There is a down play of dangers of the Suns radiation as
required by the agenda of the outer space cartels.
You might find in the official science literature that the Sun can not hold
a charge yet it seems to generate charges.
Tesla's findings can not be published or said to be true, he must be
mistaken, as they violate Einstein with 50x the speed of light particles.

ED:

"The most probable medium filling all space is one consisting of independent carriers immersed in an insulating fluid." (1)

are Tesla's words from 1892 :

1. T. C. Martin, The Inventions, Researches and Writings of Nikola Tesla; Lecture before the Institution of Electrical Engineers, London (1892).

The ether is composed of something.

1893-02-__: On Light and Other High Frequency Phenomena

[edit on 5/9/2010 by TeslaandLyne]

Ah, don't get me wrong. I read through Lyne's material. Interesting stuff. But I don't require Tesla's lab to test it. Consider this picture. A simple diagram of how the Ether behaves inside and outside of a solid allowing the preservation of inertia and momentum.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/479e25269be1.png[/atsimg]

Page 21 "Occult Eather Physics" William Lyne
www.scribd.com...




Now how does one test this. Instead of spending money and running lab experiments I can use observational data from the solar system. The very planets themselves will be our test subjects for this experiment. Thesis: the larger a body is, the faster it should be moving. Let's see what the 8 planets tell us. The planets are listed by size.

Length of day in earth days (Planet Name)

0.41354 Jupiter
0.44401 Saturn
0.67125 Neptune
-0.71833 Uranus
0.99727 Earth
-243.0187 Venus
1.02596 Mars
58.6462 mercury



The trend says yes, the larger the planet the faster it rotates, with Jupiter and Saturn the two massive giants having more than two days for every day here on earth. But Venus is a problem. Rotating over four times slower than Mercury but being far more massive.

So let's look at Venus with the data Available to Tesla in his period in history. An old listing for Venus puts it around two days of rotation per earth day. Much closer to the number that Ether theory would predict.

Francesco de Vico (1805-1848) which
obtains the incredibly precise value
of 23h 21mn 21.934s,
after an observation campaign carried
out between 1839 and 1841, during
which he could follow planet in full day.

See the current official rotation of Venus is based on it's solid body and not it's atmosphere. But since the solid body is 161 km below it's thick atmosphere, the atmosphere rotates at a different rate. That is how the observation above was made. By following patterns on the surface of the atmosphere. So even though Venus is currently listed as a radius of 6,051.8 km, it's actual hard body radius is 5,890.8 km.


Data from Tesla's period of work

0.41354 Jupiter
0.44401 Saturn
0.67125 Neptune
-0.71833 Uranus
0.99727 Earth
-0.97317 Venus
1.02596 Mars
58.6462 mercury



Seems to work, right? The larger the body, the faster it spins, with tiny Mercury taking almost sixty days to rotate on it's axis once. But here's the deal breaker. What about the sun. The sun, more massive than every body in the entire solar system combined, takes 25.379995 days to rotate at the equator. That's over three weeks.

If the larger a body is, the faster it should be moving. the sun should be spinning at about 0.02 -0.22, or fifty times to five times for each earth day. Not only is it not going that fast, it is going much much slower.


David Grouchy

The ether is quite unknown and apparently only Tesla was testing
it and in response to electrical activity he said the reaction was like
a liquid with electrical carriers.
I just think Tesla was more concerned with using the ether and not
that concerned with defining it.

I can't say one way or another if Lyne is correct as the ether is so
thin how can the components bunch up like that. There just seems
to be power in the ether when used by a controlling means.

I always take an analogy from the action of bar magnets.
Definite invisible force of action working through the ether.
Tesla worked with the electric field.

Its not weather Lyne can define the ether or not, its does the electrical
force Tesla made in the ether work or not.

The magnetic field works OK but so does the electric field in the
special way Tesla made his coils work has the force to fly in the
face of any attempt of Lyne or any one to detail the ether.
The magnetic field is weakened by materials but the electric field
at high voltage and frequency affects the ether.

Einstein may have helped detail the Atom but Tesla gave us the free
energy of the ether.

No one is ready to wake up to this fact with all the Illuminati money
going to anti Tesla causes.

ED: The big questioner of Gravity, the Cosmos and planet activity:
www.varchive.org...

ED+: Yeah what is going on in the Sun. Perhaps the core is spinning
very fast but being an active fusion furnace mass is in turmoil.


He wrote about stars but all I recall is iron is the last element
creates in the fusion and by that time spins faster and when
collapse spins even faster.


[edit on 5/10/2010 by TeslaandLyne]

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne

No one is ready to wake up to this fact with all the Illuminati money
going to anti Tesla causes.

What if the Tunguska explosion was the first nuke,
from Tesla's experiments in Shoreham New York
and physical nukes are actually a cover story.

In this scenario Tesla's absence of written
theory becomes an asset to be used in
the ensuing flurry of disinformation.

The state builds this elaborate
system whereby people are
lead to belive that nukes
require "delivery" by
plane or missile.




Tesla used
8 cycles per second
as the perfect harmonic
with the circumference of earth.
I don't require any of his lab equipment.
I can look at the what's in the historical record.

1908 the Tunguska event decimates 2,150 square km.
1908 Wardenclyffe foreclosed, located in Shoreham, New York

distance between towns randomly pulled from www.infoplease.com...
these are my two entries Tunguska, Russia (Khabarovskiy Kray) Shoreham, New York



8339.0 kilometers



What did Tesla know in his era. Let's look at the system in place during his work.
The French had recently established a standard measurement system based
on the size of the world and called it the metric system. Earth = 40,000 km

check here to see a quick history of the www.speed-light.info...

Using Hippolyte Louis Fieau's speed of 313,300km/s (1849)
we get 313,300 / 8 = 39162.5 km circumference. Not bad.
Tesla says 8 cycles per second is the perfect harmonic
with the circumference of the earth. So it looks like
he would have favored Fieau's light speed. Now
lets turn it into a weapon and aim it at the
north pole. Legend holds that Admiral
Peary was sent back there by Tesla
to observe just such an event.

Lyne states that Tesla held
a quarter (1/4) wave was best
to deliver an exploding cold wave,
Add onto it a death ray frequency of
an additional 0.666 and heres the answer.

39162.5 / 4.666 equals 8393.0 km

almost exactly the distance
to the center of the
Tunguska event.
8339km away

So there we are.
Tesla's "theory" is
the metric system,
and his death ray is
a 0.666 rider on a 1/4 wave.


David Grouchy

I'm quite vague on the condition of the Tower and any beam
equipment at the time of the Tunguska event.
By 1940 Tesla announced his Death Ray and nothing since
until he died at the start of 1943.
Some how Tesla researches might think the Nazi had a flying platform
in the works beyond the Foo that the Ray was to be integrated.
Assuming beam equipment was ready at the Tunguska event there
might be a way such an event might happen.
Well since 1900 after Colorado Springs, and some think repeated
experiments at that location for up to seven years, I think Tesla
pushed the same equipment for years.

Here is a way the explosion works.
Yeah its from the ether.
Diatomic atmospheric gases may all exhibit a 1000 x input power
as hydrogen does.

lahf · Lyne Atomic Hydrogen Furnace

A group seeking to control the process.
Thus a beam, which only Tesla could make (and not HAARP) with
pressure - electrostatic waves might do the job. I suspect the half
sphere focusing termination on top very powerful coil voltage.

freeenergysurprise · Free Energy Surprise
Another group putting high frequency on an iron pipe for a flame.
Don't think it will make a new type stove.
There is a stove using EM but again Tesla did not make EM waves
he made electric waves some think could also be used to make things
like Tesla's airship fly around.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


I got a new read on the speed of ether idea.
Tesla suggested the condensation of ether requires some activity
increase on some adherence factor.
This as he used gases and made them rigid by increasing the
frequency of their motion by radio or lower electrical frequency.
Thus he says a solid must have a high rate of ether activity.

So its not more massive solids will be speedier than one another
its just that a high rate of ether activity makes rigid objects.
Also because he made gas (air / ether) rigid by electrical forces
that allow movement of his ship through the air he though the same
for actual existence of solids.

Although as you pointed out solid objects of more mass are
speedier or depress the metric of space as Einstein would say.
The people that read Tesla sort of stick with Tesla and Lyne is
the prime example. He won't go past Tesla unless there is good
understanding of principles not covered by Tesla.

reply to post by davidgrouchy

Tesla used 8 cycles per second as the perfect harmonic with the circumference of earth. I don't require any of his lab equipment. I can look at the what's in the historical record. 1908 the Tunguska event decimates 2,150 square km. 1908 Wardenclyffe foreclosed, located in Shoreham, New York

I don't see Tesla going near 8 cps in his Colorado Springs Notes.
Is the 8 cps some sort of unpublished information about Tesla.

Tesla would beam with the half sphere focus with the exact wavelength
to excite the atmosphere into lighting as he said he would do for
the ships at sea at night, he would light up the night sky so he could get a
Navy job, but if true the beam non Relativistically expanded and imploded
the atmosphere, see Lyne Hydrogen torch anywhere on the net, and
bent Tunguska out of shape. Tesla realized this and found the true power
of atomic gases for his overunity electric generator for submarines.

Thats the way I figure what might have happened.