What is the Identity of the Delta-Shaped Craft in this Video?

Ok, I can see it now. Must have been a glitch with my comp.

Originally posted by Rossa
OP,
I did some checking with my brother who flew guard choppers out of Whitman for about 10 years, he says the lights are landing lights, the pilots think its funny to leave them on while flying night sortis, it makes the UFO folks go crazy , they do it to get a laugh at all the UFO reports that come in.
Sorry to burst your bubble.

Rossa.....

Don't worry about "bursting my bubble".....I don't mind what it turns out to be, if we can identify it.

Can you post any source info to validate it's a B2 with landing lights?

That just doesn't sound right, as per my previous post about the B2.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 15-4-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

reply to post by Truth1000


Truth1000.....

How can it be "an early version of the B2" if the video was filmed in late 2008?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 15-4-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

This may have been asked already, but with ALL of Northern Europe Airspace closed down does that also include Fighter Jets AWACS etc???

Originally posted by Truth1000
Stealth is not a single function, but rather an entire concept of design.

......snipped the irrelevant waffle......Yes, I KNOW what 'stealth' is, thank you. It is your amazing powers of observation I take issue with.

If you take the forward point of a stealth aircraft, and the two end-wing tip points of the leading edges of the wings, these form a triangle shape,

Except where they don't; ie F-22, YF-23, Bird of Prey etc, not all stealthy types are triangles.

and can be used, by those with the capability, to use the subsequent angles to identify the craft and determine the angle of radar reflection, regardless of whether it is a standard or pulse-Doppler radar emission system. No two stealth craft families have the same angles to this triangle, including the UAVs.

,

To what 'ability' do you refer? The ability to see shapes and details that are not even there? Wow, thats not an ability, its a superpower.

So you can determine the external outline of the craft from where the lights are, at night. Oh, the lights may not be fitted in a manner to give away the external shape, or there may be unlit areas that give a quite different shape to that which you imagine (rather overactively if I may say so). But don't let that spoil your interpretation.

Any further discussion of these angles would be classified.

Good grief, talk about making yourself look important

[edit on 16-4-2010 by waynos]

Looks like a microlight to me.

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Looks like a microlight to me.

It looks more like that than anything else to me too, maybe a deliberate hoax using a microlight with some extra lighting?

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Looks like a microlight to me.

RichardPrice.....

According to some members, the argument against the object being an RC plane is the object appears to be flying in a manner that is too smooth & stable for that.

Do you think that argument might also apply to a microlight, albeit to a lesser extent?

Also, the witness states he couldn't hear the object.

Wouldn't a microlight make a fair bit of noise?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Looks like a microlight to me.

RichardPrice.....

According to some members, the argument against the object being an RC plane is the object appears to flying in a manner that is too smooth & stable for that.

Do you think that argument might also apply to a microlight, albeit to a lesser extent?

Nope, stability depends entirely on conditions and the aircraft itself - I've seen RC aircraft that look just like the real thing in flight (this was a large Handley Page Victor bomber, over 4 metre wing span).

An RC or microlight aircraft doesn't necessarily need to be unstable in flight.

Also, the witness states he couldn't hear the object.

Wouldn't a microlight make a fair bit of noise?

Not necessarily, and there are lots of reasons why you may not be able to hear it anyway, even when its directly overhead. I've had a C-130 fly over me at several thousand feet without a hint of noise - wouldn't be able to replicate that worth a damn tho, but it happened.

Plus microlights can glide like hell.

reply to post by RichardPrice


RichardPrice.....

OK.....thanks for that info.

So it appears we still can't exclude the object being an RC or microlight craft.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

It could possibly be an A-12 even tho the progam has been "Canceled" the could have restared the program as they did with the B1 lancer

Originally posted by Angry Mob Justice
It could possibly be an A-12 even tho the progam has been "Canceled" the could have restared the program as they did with the B1 lancer

Angry Mob Justice.....

Thanks for that idea.

There are 2 “A 12” aircraft.

The Lockheed craft which finished active service in 1968:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b01c16f54d24.jpg[/atsimg]

en.wikipedia.org...

www.globalsecurity.org...

The General Dynamics craft which did not enter service, the development project being cancelled by the US Navy in 1991.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4035b3ee9d2f.jpg[/atsimg]

en.wikipedia.org...

Due to the shape, I believe you are referring to the GD craft.

I don’t think it would be either of those craft because the Lockheed craft hasn't flown for 40 years & the GD was cancelled before any craft were put into service.

Kind regards
Maybe…maybe not

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

Dear Mr. Waynos,

How many aircraft have you flown at night, in formation, in weather, taking your cues on aircraft type and aspect from the shape and lighting patterns of the aircraft you were rendezvousing with?

How many aerodynamics classes have you attended?

How many pre-flights have you performed where you noticed everything possible about your aircraft before-taxi?

How many threat briefings have you attended, to learn to identify an enemy aircraft, at the greatest distance from your aircraft as possible, while to the untrained eye they would just be a spot on the horizon?

Do you know what design aspects of an aircraft present an enhanced or diminished picture to Doppler radar versus standard radar vs various targeting radars?

How many classified briefings have you witnessed to learn how we do what we do, while denying those same capabilities to the enemy?

Would you ridicule a veteran NASCAR driver because he stated he could simply glance in a rear-view mirror and instinctively know whether the car behind him is in position to attempt to pass him?

When you can exceed my capabilities in these questions, I'll accept your rebuke.

Nice video...I don't see how anybody would be able to determine what craft that was expecially the model and time frame it was made...Do you get a lot more activity with the night vision...I am thinking about getting some goggles but they are very expensive...any suggestions would be great

reply to post by Truth1000


I always think that whenever anyone comes over with 'I cannot say' on a web message board it comes over all self-important and whiffs of BS so I have never ever stated any kind of credentials on ATS in the 6 years I've been here, and never will. Which is probably why your own similar sentiment 'drew me out' Sorry. Call me an enthusiast and accept or dismiss my opinion on that basis. Its the best I can do. I accepted to live with that a long time ago.

I am here more for the historical exposition than the 'conspiracy' side of things which a search of my own threads should quickly show, so 'background' is not entirely relevant to THAT aspect anyway.

In any case, with this discourse looking in danger of getting personal I went back to your original post that I reacted to, and my reaction, and I can only conclude that I was in a bad mood. It happens. Sorry for laughing.

However the point I singularly failed to get across still stands. In short I agree with your assessment of what the light formation suggests. But I would say that it can only be a suggestion and a two dimensional row of lights on a low res video DOES NOT provide enough information to assess the 'design' of a vehicle. Whatever your, or my, personal experience. It puts me in mind of all those fuzzy photos of secret soviet types we had to assess in the past and reports were published giving role, performance and capability assessments when later, clearer photo's showed we had even got the SHAPE wrong! Look at 1977-79 impressions of the MiG 29 and Su-27 for specific examples of this, they are only the tip of the iceberg. This is my contention.

edit - 'we' in a 'NATO' sense

[edit on 21-4-2010 by waynos]

[edit on 21-4-2010 by waynos]

Originally posted by Truth1000

If you take the forward point of a stealth aircraft, and the two end-wing tip points of the leading edges of the wings, these form a triangle shape, and can be used, by those with the capability, to use the subsequent angles to identify the craft and determine the angle of radar reflection, regardless of whether it is a standard or pulse-Doppler radar emission system.

And your argument falls flat on its face when you consider the F-22 and F-35 in the same light - both stealth aircraft (the F-22 has a RCS as good as the F-117) and neither are triangle shaped - indeed, if you followed your 'guide' you would come out with a significantly wrong impression of the shape of the aircraft...

reply to post by Truth1000


I design and develop fly-by-wire software for the aerospace industry for a living - and I consider Waynos to be one of the most credible people on ATS, and certainly worthy of listening to.

I'll say I think it is a "V-Shaped" military drone with some sort if infrared lights on it. Infrared lights are invisible to the human eye, but would allow for nightscopes (also used in the video you show in the OP), used by military, to identify it and see it flying.

[edit on 21-4-2010 by thepixelpusher]

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by Angry Mob Justice
It could possibly be an A-12 even tho the progam has been "Canceled" the could have restared the program as they did with the B1 lancer

Angry Mob Justice.....

Thanks for that idea.

There are 2 “A 12” aircraft.

Interestingly enough, that came about because the original Lockheed A-12 was not a military project (the later SR-71 was) but a CIA one, and as such the A-12 designation was still unused by the Pentagon.

reply to post by RichardPrice


RichardPrice.....

I was wondering about that.....

Thanks.....your explanation makes sense

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not