It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

VIDEO: Gunshots Fired In Immediate Aftermath Of Polish Plane Crash

page: 9
71
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 08:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by Diddo

I found this footage on polish site. The man is polish, I can translate what is he saying.

www.youtube.com...

0:15 - the black box from the plane, which crashed (polish: 'czarna skrzynka samolotu, który się rozwalił)
0:44 - oh my (polish: o kurde, not very cleary)
(1:01 - we can see the fog)
1:19 - Russian ppl saying "dawaj dawaj dawaj" (what means: come on, repeated)
1:21 - that's the polish plane! (polish: to polski samolot przecież)
(again russian: 'dawaj, bokiem' like, come on, turn it)
2:20 what the #, Poles (ja pierdziele, Polacy)



I can confirm that this translation is spot on. Now if only we could get the Russian video translated.




posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 01:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by ipsedixitYou think so? I don't. I think they would delay the ceremony for a few hours until he could get there, perhaps by helicopter from another airfield.


I don't think so - I know so. The nearest alternative landing destination was Minsk, and it would have taken them more than a few hours to get to Smolensk from that point. They would need to reschedule it to another day at least, which typically cannot happen with events of this magnitude.

Furthermore, there would be no guarantee that the airfield would not fog up again later - the Smolensk airport is often foggy.


Originally posted by ipsedixitThat's an interesting biographical detail but I would imagine that after the earlier incident you refer to in Tibilisi, the rest of the government and his political allies read him the riot act behind closed doors and told him that their political interests demanded that he let the pilots make the flying judgements from now on, like all the other world leaders do.


He was pretty pissed off after Tiblisi, in fact he wanted to have his pilot fired.


Originally posted by ipsedixitYou might be right about the whole incident. Sometimes, however, simpleness is in the eye of the beholder.


Conspiracies sure are fun, but there is no logic (as of yet) to this one.


Originally posted by InterestedParty
however, i cant belive that law enforcement were there that quickly so that they could fire warning shots at people coming near the wreckage.


"that quickly" is meaningless, because you have no idea how quickly "that quickly" really is. That is to say, there is no information about how much later after the crash this video was shot.


Originally posted by InterestedParty
news say that the plane was at a height of 20 metres when it clipped the trees.....i spoke to a pilot friend of mine, and he said that to be at 20 metres you would expect to be directly over the end of the runway...and seconds from landing.


All airports are different, different planes need to be brought down differently, etc.


Originally posted by highlyoriginalWell thanks for that translation, however I do have some questions. Your translation is completely different of that of that one made by another ATSer. So now we have 2 different translations (except you both agree on the one curse word) and only one person backing up each one. So it sounds like we need either a couple more translators, or an actual Russian who can speak enough English to translate perfect for us. The other poster says you can hear more in the background but you have to listen carefully - this is why I think we need someone to separate the sound from the video and boost the background noises so we can hear the guard or policemen or whomever is speaking.


What needs to be translated there from Russian? That video is not very eventful. I can confirm Diddo's Russian translations, but everything else is just background talking noise and there's no way to make out what they are saying - not that I think it would be very interesting.

I mean, surely they aren't doing some secret cover up while reporters are filming them, completely no caring about it.


Originally posted by highlyoriginalIF that is true, and I need confirmation on someone from Russia, or if someone can please call someone they know in Russia and confirm, then that really is saying there is something being hidden here. We all know the MSM (doesn't matter where you are in the world) hides stuff - secret agendas are their favorite things to hide. What I'm concerned about here though is that we're not seeing the whole picture... literally.


Confirmation of what?


Originally posted by Rukas
I can confirm that this translation is spot on. Now if only we could get the Russian video translated.


I already posted the translation of everything audible (at least to me) earlier. They are saying things along the lines of "back", "lets get back", "go back", etc. Nothing to do with guns or killing or any other threats. I still don't know what is said at the end, I asked another Russian friend of mine to check it out, and he can't understand it either.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 04:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by Manincloak

Originally posted by ipsedixitYou think so? I don't. I think they would delay the ceremony for a few hours until he could get there, perhaps by helicopter from another airfield.


So, listen carefully: everybody in Poland knows, that our president 'RULES'. Literally. He organised the ceremony, and 3 days later when Putin invited our prime minister Tusk, Putin was late about 2 hours. Our president said in TV that Putin had no respect, because he didn't respect our time etc. So what you think, if you firstly accuse someone of not respecting your time, and then don't respect someone's time yourself? president organised the ceremony by his own, and then they left polish airport too late (about 7.20am, they was said to start at 7.00am) and they really didn't want being late. If you said something negative about someone, like Kaczyński about Putin, and then you do the same - how it looks like? that's why they refuse to change airport.


Originally posted by ipsedixitThat's an interesting biographical detail but I would imagine that after the earlier incident you refer to in Tibilisi, the rest of the government and his political allies read him the riot act behind closed doors and told him that their political interests demanded that he let the pilots make the flying judgements from now on, like all the other world leaders do.


"He was pretty pissed off after Tiblisi, in fact he wanted to have his pilot fired." - Exactly. The president was a bit selfish, so it's possible that the decision was his.


Originally posted by ipsedixitYou might be right about the whole incident. Sometimes, however, simpleness is in the eye of the beholder.


Later I'll translate something interesting from polish site, I don't have time now.


Originally posted by InterestedParty
however, i cant belive that law enforcement were there that quickly so that they could fire warning shots at people coming near the wreckage.


It was russian army airport, and they were aware that the head of country is coming, that's why almost all of the 'workers' were on duty.


Originally posted by InterestedParty
news say that the plane was at a height of 20 metres when it clipped the trees.....i spoke to a pilot friend of mine, and he said that to be at 20 metres you would expect to be directly over the end of the runway...and seconds from landing.


the airport wasn't made for so big plane to land, it was even said by polish ppl. our plane needed more space to get up and even more to get down, this runway was too short. Everybody knows that (but president didn't want to undrestand it).


Originally posted by highlyoriginalWell thanks for that translation, however I do have some questions. Your translation is completely different of that of that one made by another ATSer. So now we have 2 different translations (except you both agree on the one curse word) and only one person backing up each one. So it sounds like we need either a couple more translators, or an actual Russian who can speak enough English to translate perfect for us. The other poster says you can hear more in the background but you have to listen carefully - this is why I think we need someone to separate the sound from the video and boost the background noises so we can hear the guard or policemen or whomever is speaking.


As I said, I'm Pole. My film was made by polish camera man, so I'm 100% sure what he said. About russian version: I asked my mum, who had learn russian long time ago and she told me that is not possible to exactly say what russian are saying. You hear only voices, not the meaning of words. She admitted the last part could be something like 'father, go back', but she didn't hear anything like 'don't kill us', although I made her listen to it very loud



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 09:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by likeabull
Perhaps someone was shooting a gun to get the people out of the area. Warning shots. What about that?


This has been brought up multiple times already, but I know it's a long thread so I'll address this again. If you listen to the shots they don't sound like they are gunshots into the air, and the reason I say this is because like I said I've shot a lot of different guns, more times than I can count in the woods/wooded areas, and it sounds like the shots were directed on a forwards angel or possible downwards. When I hear the shots, I picture a person hunched over still alive from the crash but unable to move from injury and they are shot. I'm not saying this is what happened, it's just an example to explain the sounds of the gunshots. To sum it up, the reverberation says it all to me, but then again I don't know how far away the shots were from the camera, the quality of the camera, or the muzzle size/bullet size.


Originally posted by Manincloak
I mean, surely they aren't doing some secret cover up while reporters are filming them, completely no caring about it.


Reporters? These people aren't reporters who shot the footage in the OP. And really, if you think that cover-ups don't occur with reporters around you need to do some research. A lot of reporters are involved in cover ups. I'm willing to bet you still watch Fox News, and FYI they are told what to say, and how to say it so they can instill fear (or whatever they're trying to brainwash the masses about) into the American people. I could go on about this subject but I'm not going to bother - point is, cover ups happen right in front of reporters all the time, the only difference with them around is they now need to be paid off or be threatened, both of which are very easy to do.

[edit on 17/4/2010 by highlyoriginal]



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 10:53 AM
link   
I too have fired many weapons in my day and all i can say is that it could have been a gunshot. Stating you can tell the direction the gun was fired in based on a video with poor audio i personally dont believe is possible. There are just too many variables to how sound travels and depending on the distance from where the round was fired the sound could have bounced off a host of geographical areas (hills, mountains, valleys, trees, buildings) and so would be degraded further.

It also could have been a host of other things from the crash as well, it could have been a cooked round going off, it could have been any host of pressurized containers on the plane going off, for all we know someone could have been hunting in the area and fired at some game. I live in the middle of no where and gunshots can be heard sometimes for miles.

Im not saying there is no evidence of some sort of cover-up but at this point its too difficult to tell, and until someone comes forward and speaks about it i fear it will remain a 'could of been' topic.

I will wait for the (pun intended) smoking gun, or at least a little more evidence before i make a judgement.

[edit on 17-4-2010 by truth?]



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 03:17 PM
link   
another questions from polish site (astral-projection.blog.onet.pl...). Im gonna translate a bit, the main points, only reasuming the points on the site.

1. wreck of the plane - have you seen the wreck of polish plane? in the footage, every footage, there was only about 10-15% of the plane's body. the plane's weight is about 55 tons with the mass about 200 m2, this plane can take max 160 ppl. The main bigger part of the plane seen on the movies is about 3-4 m2. where is the rest or rather - what caused so big destruction? was it really an explosion of fuel? picture made by satellite what remains from the plane: www.fakt.pl...
2. amount of explosions: some withnesses said there were couple explosions. But! one of polish delegate, who was waiting for the plane, wrote to prime minister, that president's plane hit the ground, but there were NO explosion. So what's wrong? other withness said, that he saw something is wrong with the plane. he heard later an explosion, like 'exploding bomb'. Not during the 'landing' in trees. the author writes: is that typical chaos or simply desinformation?
3. the plane was not only too high, but also he was 150 disallowed from the runway.
4. russian said so quickly about pilot's mistake, but he wasn't some lame - he was one of the best pilots in Poland.
5. damage of the plane - he fell down being only 100 or something metres over the ground. is it possible that plane was so dameged, when he wasn't even so high? the plane was hammered 2 metres UNDER the ground. how is it possible?
6. why russians have black boxes? why they decided so quick to start investigation? it was polish plane's crash.
7. what about bodies? where were they? there were NO bodies on footages. noone saw any body, which were probably damaged and in parts. where was it? how the rescuers knew so quickly that noone was alive? and why they denied so quickly, that noone was alive?
8. what about the rests of the plane? it hit the ground, so why so little parts were everywhere? it all looks like the plane explode in the air, that is why the parts are everywhere.
9. there is something about unnaturally tilted plane. the witnesses didn't understand how could anyone land like that?
10. one of specialists said: it's almost impossible that pilot made so big mistake. when you're landing, you don't do anything like tilting the plane or changing the speed of flight. it looks like some serious malfunction or purposeful blocade of the steering systems. that is why pilot could do nothing.
11. State of bodies: only 14 can be recognised, other needed DNA testing. Why president was recognised so quickly, when his wife wasn't? his wife was recognised only by her wedding ring, but they were sitting together?
12-15 is something about politics, some interviews with a woman about her feeling. not very important.

16. is about the film with gunshots. it was examinated by experts, but even they said it is NOT possible to understand what is said in the footage. so nothing is said about 'dont kill us'. they heard 'they're running away!' but who - we dont know.
17. when Tusk (PM) visited Russia and the airport, the additional navigation for polish planes was there. but when Kaczynski came - the navigation was deleted. Russian said president visit was 'not so important' so they didn't have to care about their landing.

That's all, folks.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 05:18 PM
link   
As if any actual proof was needed that the people on that plane were murdered. Well here it is, and it's already being dismissed as swamp gas


American MSM wont touch this with a 10 foot pole most likely, I challenge anyone to find a reputable link reporting this piece of grass roots journalism.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 06:38 PM
link   
We have this all wrong.

There are some new incredible pictures showing that the plane actually clipped a sapling in the middle of a big field and that it could not clear some taller trees at the end of the field which was about a qtr mile away.

These jets are required to climb 30 ft per second so that means the pilots were not struggling with fog or language - its that they could not get the plane to climb 30 ft over a fairly long distance.

Here is a link but check out the links on that site - mind boggling.

cybercossack.com...



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 11:21 PM
link   
reply to post by highlyoriginal
 


Loved the video,
definately not hard proof but many possiblities,
tbh if this was my cover up and there was to be an organised plane crash on such a high profile, id have my top guys on scene asap and i definately would not let any guy with a camera walk away with just a shouting at, especially if i planned on killing the survivors or executing the suffering!!! The train throws a spanner into the mix tho!!!

This is the 1st quality evidence i have seen on the situation, thumbs up



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 01:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by highlyoriginal
Reporters? These people aren't reporters who shot the footage in the OP.


Reporters or no reporters, there were clearly people with cameras there, and nobody cared.


Originally posted by highlyoriginalI'm willing to bet you still watch Fox News


I don't even live in America...


Originally posted by Lazyninja
As if any actual proof was needed that the people on that plane were murdered. Well here it is, and it's already being dismissed as swamp gas


American MSM wont touch this with a 10 foot pole most likely, I challenge anyone to find a reputable link reporting this piece of grass roots journalism.


So what is the proof? Sounds like your post is missing a paragraph explaining what it is.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 01:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Manincloak
 


How do you know that nobody cares this footage got away? It went viral within hours of its release, if they all started vanishing off the internet I can tell you that people would suspect foul play even more so then they do now. So I'm assuming this one guy happened to get lucky and get away with this footage. Other than the gunshots in the video I guess officials don't care about this footage getting out, although it makes us all question what really happened on that day.

I'm just going to hope that some more footage comes to light sooner than later that can sync up with this video to prove what some of us are all speculating.



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 02:01 PM
link   
I found possible traslation of this footage, from polish site. (www.wykop.pl...)

I will translate everything what is on this site. Word by word, so when something is not clear, please tell me.



00:10 -- 00:20 dialogue, but you can't hear words, eventually some swearwords. So there had to be another group of staring ppl. The recording below is not a dialogue, only some separate sentences and sounds.
00:30.59 - what the #! (fright)
00:34.27 siren
00:42:00 let's get out from here! (dialogue beyond staring ppl)
00:48:07 get the # out from here! ( order from army)
00:49:52 get them from here (order from army)
00:51:52 oh my god!
00:52.98 Stop! (order)
00.56.81 gunshot
1:00.03 oh #! (fright)
01:06.20 gunshot (i suppose in the air - army is dispersing the 'crowd')
1:12.03 let's get out from here! [thanks for "the one who knows russian"](dialogue between staring people) gunshot

01:15:86 gunshot
1:18.27 father (staring man talks to older man, 'father' is polite way) lets get out from here, come on!
01:20.75 oh #! (fright)


For sure I haven't heard every single word, because sometimes you hear only murmur, but in this translation i present what I HEARD, not what I made up.

By dispersal my translation you are to give a reference to this site.

Yours

Konstanty

upd. 17.04.2010

I filtered (in audacity) this footage, I was able to hear couple of swearwords (in dialogue beyond staring people between 0:12 and 0:20 sec.), which are referring to the fright. There is no laugh in the recording, as well there are no words like 'ubivaj, Sibir'*. I think mentioning these is only causing false sensation, and in this case is at least impolitic...
Referring on someone, who is not interpretator/translator of russian is in case of this recording at least stupid. I'm from bilingual family (greeting for v234vsdf), i can say that russian language is my mother tongue, that's why i'm so sure what I heard.

Whose words to belive in? Everyone can answer this question for themselves. Grey matter needs some exercise too.

K."


So that is the opinion of the boy who speaks russian.
* "ubivaj" = kill, Sibir = Siberia. Poles were sent to "Sibir" during WW2. They were killed there.

I belive him, to be honest.
PS. I was right saying that 'ni chuja siebia' means rather 'what the #' than 'you've screw it'. Who's your daddy? Or rather.. mummy


[edit on 18-4-2010 by Diddo]

and another post by the same man.
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUGtCGvIRUs&feature=player_embedded
on this footage TU-134 is burning, like in the footage from Smolensk we can hear sounds like gunshots. Catastrophy in Smolensk was in the wood, probably that is why we can hear 'gunshots' so loud and clear.
0:01:17.14 first 'gunshot' (silent)
0:01:27.00 we can see the source of 'gunshot'.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Diddo]



posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 10:54 PM
link   
reply to post by highlyoriginal
 


We are not getting the full story - it now seems that the plane was skimming over a brushy field for a qtr mile before it struck a 30' tall tree.

These jets must be able to climb 30' per second so obviously all this talk of fog and language is moot. They sure as hell knew they had to climb but for a distance of a qtr mile, they could not get over some 30' trees that finally caused it to flip and crash.

cybercossack.com...



posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 02:31 PM
link   
There WAS a fog, obviously some of you won't belive it, because 'where was the fog, i didn't see it?'. Polish reporters admitted there was a fog above the runway. Planes like TU-whatever, which crashed, need 2 km of the runway to start and even more to land. The runway on this airport has only 1,6 km. Because of the fog, pilot had to follow his nose. The fog was quite high, so pilot guessed where the runway was - the airport had no 'leading systems', so it turned out, that the plane was about 15 metres off 'the track'. The pilot understood that he mistook way but it was too late and they hit the tree.



posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 09:26 PM
link   
Hi all,

I am polish and read all of your posts on this subject today. I was ready to accept that the shots are coming from the military to scare off the crowd and it all started to make sense but... I stumbled on information that Andrij Mendierej has been murdered. This is the guy who created the video posted here earlier. I don't know how reliable this information is as I can not confirm it on any major websites. I provide a link to a page for which you can use google translate.

Link to information found

[edit on 19-4-2010 by FreeTruth_9]



posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 09:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by Diddo
There WAS a fog, obviously some of you won't belive it, because 'where was the fog, i didn't see it?'.


I've always thought - so what? There is fog all over this planet and commercial planes ferrying nobodies are still landing. A presidential plane of a major country carrying its leader and dozens of other important government officials crashes because of fog? I don't buy it.



posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 09:55 PM
link   
We should know more on Thursday. Information from two of the three black boxes is scheduled to be released. Russian government only said that there was no explosion or mechanical failure prior to the crash.



posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 09:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by highlyoriginal
This has been brought up multiple times already, but I know it's a long thread so I'll address this again. If you listen to the shots they don't sound like they are gunshots into the air, and the reason I say this is because like I said I've shot a lot of different guns, more times than I can count in the woods/wooded areas, and it sounds like the shots were directed on a forwards angel or possible downwards. When I hear the shots, I picture a person hunched over still alive from the crash but unable to move from injury and they are shot. I'm not saying this is what happened, it's just an example to explain the sounds of the gunshots. To sum it up, the reverberation says it all to me, but then again I don't know how far away the shots were from the camera, the quality of the camera, or the muzzle size/bullet size.


Okay, I'm gonna say it...

Yes, you are implying exactly that.

I admit that when I saw this reported I immediately thought "Russia did it". And I guess we'll know if that's true over the next year. Certianly if they want to kill the heads of state there has to be a power issue or control aspect to it.

I have no reason to question you opinions on firearms, but there is absolutely no way you can determine a sound as a gunshot from a YT video clip!
And to even consider that you could assert what position the gun was in, where it was pointing or what it was being fired at from that clip is insane quite frankly.

There is no EVIDENCE to suggest that those sounds are of a gun being fired. They could just as easily be hydraulic components of the plane, ammo from security detail, or even burning wood. There would be absolutely no chance of proving that those are gunshots, certainly not without professional analysis and recreation.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that video proves only one thing; that there were popping sounds heard in the woods around the crash on that day.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 03:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by FreeTruth_9
Hi all,

I am polish and read all of your posts on this subject today. I was ready to accept that the shots are coming from the military to scare off the crowd and it all started to make sense but... I stumbled on information that Andrij Mendierej has been murdered. This is the guy who created the video posted here earlier. I don't know how reliable this information is as I can not confirm it on any major websites. I provide a link to a page for which you can use google translate.

Link to information found

[edit on 19-4-2010 by FreeTruth_9]


Wyślij mi proszę link do tego artykułu po polsku i napisz kilka słów w tymże języku, bo jakoś Ci nie wierzę
Let's check if you're really Pole.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 06:23 AM
link   
Hi. I stumbled across ATS a couple of days ago when looking for conspiracy information about this plane crash as i was born in Poland and have lived there most of my life. The "crash" just didnt seem right from the start. lets face it we knew the officail story would be pilots error.

The reason i joined ATS was because ive stumbled across information about Adrij Mendierej on Polish forums, who was supposed to have made this film with the gunshots. They say that he was attacked in the Ukraine and while in hospital someway disconnected the respiratory machine and knifed 3 times. He died on 16th April.

Just wanted to ask if anyone has heard of this ? ( it dose seem a little too far fetched ). For any Polish speaking ATS members just google Adrij Mendierej and youll get quite a few forums about this

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Bolus80]



new topics

top topics



 
71
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join