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VIDEO: Gunshots Fired In Immediate Aftermath Of Polish Plane Crash

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posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by badw0lf
 


These people with the execution conspiracy also fail to explain how the cameraman got away.

When Russia wants you dead you kiss your ass good bye, no matter where you are in the world you cant hide. Just ask Trotsky or Litvenenko.

If they did something so sinister they would have to execute all witnesses too in some grand well planned event, or else make it look like some one elses soldiers did it. They wouldnt let him get away... unless of course they WANTED to...




posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:01 AM
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Those are most definatly gunshots. You can hear the characteristic impact sound a split second after the shots go off. WOW is all I can say. I am an avid hunter and know the sound of a shot from any distance and know sound when a bullet hits an animal from even a mile away. Some one was shooting some one or thing at that crash site.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
Why are so many people skipping over the supposed verbal evidence captured on that footage? We have a few people confirming that someone says "don't kill me". That seems an unusual request when a rescue operation is underway, don't you think? Don't just ignore it.


I know I don't get why everyone is making assumptions without listening to what the people are saying


Listen, as I stated before, if they did use a gun to kill someone off who did survive how hard would it be to throw their body in the fire and let it burn? There are plenty of ways to get rid of the body, at least enough so that they will not be able to tell that a gun finished the person off.

AND if you want to refute that possibility, then how about the fact that Russia is heading the investigation? How easy would it be for them to lie during that investigation? How easy would it be to hide the fact someone was shot? NOT HARD!



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:31 AM
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but how do you get there and shoot the survivors?

is that possible?

how can you know when/where the crash is, and living people, even if you bring it down?

the clip looks pretty calm for a recent crash, tho.

thinking out loud...



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:43 AM
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I dont understand how the Russians can say that 14 bodies were identified and the rest were burnt beyond recognition considering this video (if authentic) is said to be a taken right after the crash,there is like three small separate fires in this video.

I witnessed Air France Flight 358 overrun the runway in 2005 in Toronto and that plane was burning for hours, even with the little jet fuel it had left coming from Paris (7.5 hour flight), all 200 somewhat passengers left the wreckage unharmed.

The fact that the Polish plane was approaching the runway, it was in a much worse situation. Shouldn't there be a bit more fire to burn around 80 passengers beyond recognition within the short amount of time before the first video was shot?



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by Manincloak
The President (and everyone else there) were on their way to the commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre. This was a very very very significant event, because for the first time ever Russia acknowledged the historical event, and invited the Polish leadership for a joint commemoration.

If the plane did not land, the President, and all the other political and military leaders on the plane would miss it


You think so? I don't. I think they would delay the ceremony for a few hours until he could get there, perhaps by helicopter from another airfield.


The Polish President is known for his attitude to air safety being second to politics.


That's an interesting biographical detail but I would imagine that after the earlier incident you refer to in Tibilisi, the rest of the government and his political allies read him the riot act behind closed doors and told him that their political interests demanded that he let the pilots make the flying judgements from now on, like all the other world leaders do.


This is very very simple, and I cannot understand what you find so nonsensical about all this.


You might be right about the whole incident. Sometimes, however, simpleness is in the eye of the beholder.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by Trigs21
I dont understand how the Russians can say that 14 bodies were identified and the rest were burnt beyond recognition considering this video (if authentic) is said to be a taken right after the crash,there is like three small separate fires in this video.

I witnessed Air France Flight 358 overrun the runway in 2005 in Toronto and that plane was burning for hours, even with the little jet fuel it had left coming from Paris (7.5 hour flight), all 200 somewhat passengers left the wreckage unharmed.

The fact that the Polish plane was approaching the runway, it was in a much worse situation. Shouldn't there be a bit more fire to burn around 80 passengers beyond recognition within the short amount of time before the first video was shot?





Is this true? They can only ID 14 bodies? If so, this really brings the whole gunshot thing into play... they could have easily finished someone off who survived by gun and burnt the body beyond recognition like I've been claiming all along, and I didn't know these details. Wow... this makes me wonder...



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by highlyoriginal
 


yea me too. can we get a source on that info? because if true, then kind of supports the crazy theory of ppl being shot.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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I mentioned before that Russians had made that statement. The news media 'Russia Today' just posted an update on their website at 17:10 (about a half an hour ago).

Now they say:
- the pilot knew 10 seconds before that they would crash
- the plane made only one attempt to land, before they said 4 times
- now they have identified 76 bodies

tomorrow they will have another story...

i still stand by what i said earlier about a body burning beyond recognition with just small isolated fires from the video (CANT HAPPEN).. nevermind the crash itself without any passengers would produce a lot more flames then the one in the video.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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Sorry I don't have time to go through 8 pages. Was the video authenticated? If so, there is a lot of strange stuff going on. Also, is there an English translation?

[edit on 16-4-2010 by AllIsOne]



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 12:41 PM
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Hey everyone, just been analysing some google earth shots of the area.....russian media say that the plane was 700 metres from the runway, check, there is indeed a small woodland at that spot.

Next, in news footage, there was a large white wall clearly visible in the background.....check, the wall of the airport boundary.

One thing that doesnt fit, is the sound of the train...now, if you listen to the video how close would you say the train was?.....10 metres?....50 metres?

No, the nearest railway line is 900 metres away from the crash site.

I cant belive that the train sounds so close when it was 900 metres away....anyway

the people being there within minutes is very likely, again google earth shows homes a few hundred metres away.....however, i cant belive that law enforcement were there that quickly so that they could fire warning shots at people coming near the wreckage.


news say that the plane was at a height of 20 metres when it clipped the trees.....i spoke to a pilot friend of mine, and he said that to be at 20 metres you would expect to be directly over the end of the runway...and seconds from landing.

this throws open the speculation of tampering with the display, either at traffic control or on the plane itself.....who knows



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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So, okay.
I want to say something. I wasn't able to go through all post, I've read only 1-5 sites and some posts at 8th. Sorry, maybe I'm repeating somebody's post..
I'm polish. There's NOTHING said in polish in this video, really. That's the first thing. I understand why polish TV didn't want to show this: the 'author' said 'ni chuja sebja' or something like that (russian and polish are very similar, but if you're pole, you will feel the difference). 'chuj' in polish means 'dick', so polish TV station wouldn't show a footage, where the narrator shout the 'baddest' word you can say in polish. Second thing.. (I hope none of polish security services will find me and kill me for insulting the president). There was a situation, when our president, Lech Kaczynski went do Georgia (a country). He wanted the pilot to land in an airport which was completely destroyed because of the war or something. The pilot said 'NO'. And was accused of insulting the head of our country - president said so - do it. Doesnt matter you can kill us.
To the point: The drumhead service was to started at 9.30. Polish plane left Warsaw at 7.20. The flight was to durate about 2 - 1,5 hours. The russian airplane said (reportedly) 'no' for landing, because the plane was too big (it was said by polish specialists that this kind of planes needs more place for start and for landing than it was in Smolensk). The plane was in Smolensk at 8.58 (the crash), russian told them to land in Moscow (200 km away) or wherever but there - so they would be late for the ceremony they organised for themselves (like: you demand a ceremony and then you're like 2 hours late). These are just speculations, but we know our president and his twin brother. It is (not official, but 'beyond people') said, that the president or his brother could exact the landing there.. all polish ppl know, that president felt a bit too important. I think speaking about russians who 'threw a pine cone into the engines to cause the crash' is the same as speaking about guilty president. But i think sometimes we should confess our own stupidity rather than accuse everyone else.. Let's even look at the situation in Poland now. Even if the mourning still 'functions', not every of us, Poles, is agreed with the funeral in Cracow, in Wawel. Some of us knows, that president wasn't always innocent, that is why we are not accusing anyone until someone checks flight recorder. Yes, the pilots knew they will die. I only hope they didn't die on the recuest of president..
PS. the noise you recognised as a train - it was the siren, the airport belongs to army, so they have something like 'warning systems' or something. But it was the siren, that is sure.
Sorry for my english, I can really suck in writing, but that is because I'm better in german.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by AllIsOne
Sorry I don't have time to go through 8 pages. Was the video authenticated? If so, there is a lot of strange stuff going on. Also, is there an English translation?

[edit on 16-4-2010 by AllIsOne]


Yes the video is real, and it is of the plane crash. Someone posted a screen shot from this footage I came across in the OP alongside a screen shot from the news. The wheels are upside down in both pictures, and there are other details if you take the time to check it out that show it's from the same scene.

The footage is legit no doubt about it. Here's the post showing the pictures Screen shots from news & footage

The translation is as follows:

Originally posted by ponyboyats
reply to post by highlyoriginal
 


holy #! i do speak russian and i didnt hear that at first, but right after the train whistle you can hear a man say GET THE F OUTA HERE! and then someone says w/ pathetic voice Dont kill us! and then you hear a gun shot thats when the camera man starts running back and sais NE HUIA SEBE which means thats some f d up stuff.


That post is from this thread. If you want to debate it, then go ahead but so far no one has refuted it plus this poster noted some other things being said that are hard to hear in the background with all the noise. I'm still hoping someone with audio/video software can separate the noises and get the words buffed up a bit so we can clearly hear everything being said. A full transcript would be great, although what we have already is pretty good - and that being said, look at the translation! That's crazy! "Don't kill us!" Definitely sounds like some people were seeing stuff they shouldn't be seeing... although I do realize this was a plane crash and the public is never allowed near stuff like this, at least not until everything has been cleared mostly by the law enforcement.


Originally posted by InterestedParty
One thing that doesnt fit, is the sound of the train...now, if you listen to the video how close would you say the train was?.....10 metres?....50 metres?

No, the nearest railway line is 900 metres away from the crash site.

I cant belive that the train sounds so close when it was 900 metres away....anyway

the people being there within minutes is very likely, again google earth shows homes a few hundred metres away.....however, i cant belive that law enforcement were there that quickly so that they could fire warning shots at people coming near the wreckage.


news say that the plane was at a height of 20 metres when it clipped the trees.....i spoke to a pilot friend of mine, and he said that to be at 20 metres you would expect to be directly over the end of the runway...and seconds from landing.

this throws open the speculation of tampering with the display, either at traffic control or on the plane itself.....who knows


This is all very confusing, isn't it? The footage I posted in the OP is obviously legit, but it challenges some of the official story. I know the sound of the train in the video is very loud, which yes I know doesn't make any sense... Maybe someone from Russia on these forums can go near that crash site and snoop around - that would be great if we could get some more footage! I really wish the guy who shot the footage I posted were to have shown more to the public, who knows what else he got on tape, or if he got chased away... I have no idea. He's lucky to be alive though in my book, I mean he got away with video taping (literally the first tape I believe) the scene immediately after it happened. This video is most definitely the first shot.

Now, the reason people were able to get there so quick...

The best answer I can come up with is that everyone knew that this plane was due to arrive that day since it was announced to the public that these officials were coming for a celebration from Poland. Although I'm not sure if the exact time was announced (if anyone can verify if the exact time of the supposed landing was announced please share and include your source). I mean look at when Obama lands somewhere, how many people are waiting there to take pictures and video tape the event? TONS! So if people were waiting for this plane to land, and see it crash, what do you think they would do? Run quickly and try to get as much on tape as possible! That's what I'd do, and probably all of you as well.

Anyway, I'm hoping more footage becomes available, I've been trying to find the person who shot this footage and get a hold of them, so far no luck. I found the website the file originated from but the user was not the person who actually shot the footage so... dead end.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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oh, come one. You said you know russian and you don't even understand simple sentence..




holy #! i do speak russian and i didnt hear that at first, but right after the train whistle you can hear a man say GET THE F OUTA HERE! and then someone says w/ pathetic voice Dont kill us! and then you hear a gun shot thats when the camera man starts running back and sais NE HUIA SEBE which means thats some f d up stuff.


"Ni chuja sebja" means exactly the same what polish 'ja pierdolę' , that is 'what the #' or '# a duck' (i found the counterpart in the internet, hope it's real). And, once again, there was no such thing like 'don't kill us'. And the sound was the siren from airport.

The plane was late, they were expected at 9.30, and russian told them to fly away to Moscow, but they tried to land because Moscow meant being about 2-3 hours late.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by highlyoriginal

Originally posted by InterestedParty
One thing that doesnt fit, is the sound of the train...now, if you listen to the video how close would you say the train was?.....10 metres?....50 metres?

No, the nearest railway line is 900 metres away from the crash site.



I know the sound of the train in the video is very loud,


Regarding "train" sound. I find this explanation highly plausible:


Originally posted by Diddo
PS. the noise you recognised as a train - it was the siren, the airport belongs to army, so they have something like 'warning systems' or something. But it was the siren, that is sure.


[edit on 16-4-2010 by kinda kurious]



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:14 PM
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This explanation is not plausible, but true. I turned the TV at saturday morning, exactly at 9.20-whatever, and I was watching the infos all day long. This sound was repeated several times even during live-reports, the reporters explained that this was the sound of the sirens, because the airport belongs to the army, that's the reason russian reacted so quickly.


also: the situation of this crash is a bit complicated for the ppl 'from the outside'. The 'trip' was organised by the president, the whole event was the president. 3 days earlier our prime minister went to russland for the same reason, he met Putin there, that was something like conciliation with us, Poles, and saying sorry for Katyń. But the president wanted to go too, although it was the meeting of prime ministers. So president decided to organise his own event at the weekend. He took almost the whole polish elite to emphasise the meaning of the event and they flew. They were late, and although the russian tower told them they would be not able to land there, they decided to take the risk.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Diddo]


I found this footage on polish site. The man is polish, I can translate what is he saying.

www.youtube.com...

0:15 - the black box from the plane, which crashed (polish: 'czarna skrzynka samolotu, który się rozwalił)
0:44 - oh my (polish: o kurde, not very cleary)
(1:01 - we can see the fog)
1:19 - Russian ppl saying "dawaj dawaj dawaj" (what means: come on, repeated)
1:21 - that's the polish plane! (polish: to polski samolot przecież)
(again russian: 'dawaj, bokiem' like, come on, turn it)
2:20 what the #, Poles (ja pierdziele, Polacy)

The footage made by camera man from Poland.
Btw, on the airport there were many polish reporters, who wanted to 'catch' the landing. Do you really think Russian would shoot President taking risk they will be caught by polish reporters? In this situation they had to kill even the withnesses.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Diddo]



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


Thanks for clearing that up, that makes complete sense. Sirens here in the US don't sound anything like that, at least nothing I've ever heard and I've been around a bunch from different places for different accidents like fires and such - but I admit my area of expertise is not in 'sirens'



Originally posted by Diddo
This explanation is not plausible, but true. I turned the TV at saturday morning, exactly at 9.20-whatever, and I was watching the infos all day long. This sound was repeated several times even during live-reports, the reporters explained that this was the sound of the sirens, because the airport belongs to the army, that's the reason russian reacted so quickly.


also: the situation of this crash is a bit complicated for the ppl 'from the outside'. The 'trip' was organised by the president, the whole event was the president. 3 days earlier our prime minister went to russland for the same reason, he met Putin there, that was something like conciliation with us, Poles, and saying sorry for Katyń. But the president wanted to go too, although it was the meeting of prime ministers. So president decided to organise his own event at the weekend. He took almost the whole polish elite to emphasise the meaning of the event and they flew. They were late, and although the russian tower told them they would be not able to land there, they decided to take the risk.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Diddo]


I found this footage on polish site. The man is polish, I can translate what is he saying.

www.youtube.com...

0:15 - the black box from the plane, which crashed (polish: 'czarna skrzynka samolotu, który się rozwalił)
0:44 - oh my (polish: o kurde, not very cleary)
(1:01 - we can see the fog)
1:19 - Russian ppl saying "dawaj dawaj dawaj" (what means: come on, repeated)
1:21 - that's the polish plane! (polish: to polski samolot przecież)
(again russian: 'dawaj, bokiem' like, come on, turn it)
2:20 what the #, Poles (ja pierdziele, Polacy)

The footage made by camera man from Poland.
Btw, on the airport there were many polish reporters, who wanted to 'catch' the landing. Do you really think Russian would shoot President taking risk they will be caught by polish reporters? In this situation they had to kill even the withnesses.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Diddo]


Well thanks for that translation, however I do have some questions. Your translation is completely different of that of that one made by another ATSer. So now we have 2 different translations (except you both agree on the one curse word) and only one person backing up each one. So it sounds like we need either a couple more translators, or an actual Russian who can speak enough English to translate perfect for us. The other poster says you can hear more in the background but you have to listen carefully - this is why I think we need someone to separate the sound from the video and boost the background noises so we can hear the guard or policemen or whomever is speaking.

And I agree, if anyone saw anything, they'd have been shot as to not go and tell the public. However this guy got away with this footage somehow so I don't know what to think. I am willing to bet he got the first footage of the crash, I'm almost 100% positive on that, at least it's the first public footage available at this time, and since the gunshots are a little bit away from him (I estimate anywhere from 50-200yards away, it's hard to tell without knowing the density of the forest and what weapon was used) he more than likely got away in time if they were indeed killing witnesses. There is much to speculate on here, so we really need to get to it and analyze this video completely and figure everything out for sure.

If anyone is willing to help, I'm willing to try to pick this video footage apart. And as I stated I'm trying to track down the owner of the video - only found the person who has the original copy (no idea how they got it though).



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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oh, also about the video of russian:

There was something like "we're changing our plans" (zmiana planów) at 1:12 (at least at polish sites)

Primary it was said by Russian, that everyone is dead. That's what polish TV news reported. But then there were some rumours, that 3 people are still alive. Maybe then they shout 'changing plans', because they wanted to save them, and firstly they just wanted to 'clean up the mess'. I mean the plane.

To be honest: many Poles suppose, that it was the fault of.. our president. Blaming Russia could have very bad follow-ups. We are aware, that our president was a bit.. specific. So maybe I show you one of the opinions, which are common in Poland

" [..]Another reason is for sure that the pilot could be under pressure or was ashamed (he flew with the most important ppl in country, who were pressed for time), he was reportedly the best pilot in Poland and he couldn't land (he didn't want to land anywhere else, because people
would talk about it all the time, eg. coming with the bus from Moscow). The truth is usually ridiculously stupid and people don't want to belive in it, because it's not very convenient."

I'm just feeling like the little president caused big case. all accuse Russia, because we won't belive that someone could be so stupid to risk lives of many important people only because it was late. Maybe you don't see it like me, because you are not aware, what was happening in Poland all the time Kaczyński was the president. But some people from my country would say there is just one person to blame.. And it's not Putin



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by Diddo
 


Well I find it odd that the facts are being skewed so much. At first the reporting on the tragedy was horrible; I know it's hard to get a body count in an accident, however everyone was told to be dead, therefore how hard can it be to look at the manifest and say "OK there was this many people on board, and there is no survivors so that means *blank* people are dead total."

But okay I can understand some confusion (although in another thread I posted how one guy believed the number of dead was a message from the Skull & Bones, I have no idea whether or not he was right but the number thing was sorta interesting), especially when something like this occurs.

The thing I wanted to bring up again though specifically is how I heard that the footage I supplied in the OP has been played on Russian/Polish TV (it may have just been Russian, I admit I forget exactly) - however, when they relayed the footage they took out some sounds, obviously the gunshots. From the way I read what this guy was saying, basically they left the audio of the video, but tampered with it to exclude the curse words and the gunshots.

IF that is true, and I need confirmation on someone from Russia, or if someone can please call someone they know in Russia and confirm, then that really is saying there is something being hidden here. We all know the MSM (doesn't matter where you are in the world) hides stuff - secret agendas are their favorite things to hide. What I'm concerned about here though is that we're not seeing the whole picture... literally.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:04 PM
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Perhaps someone was shooting a gun to get the people out of the area. Warning shots. What about that?



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