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Poland's suspicious second Katyn Massacre trajedy

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posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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25-YEAR-OLD TUPOLEV HAD BEEN ‘OVERHAULED’ IN RUSSIA MONTHS EARLIER
Sunday 11 April 2010 00:30

• UPDATE: OUR SUSPICIONS ARE YET FURTHER STRENGTHENED:
Since we posted this report, we have learned as follows:

(1): President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia has stated on a CNN interview that quote 'something incredibly evil was involved here' without elaborating or explaining what he was implying. The interview can be seen at this link: www.youtube.com...

(2): A close examination of the precise terrain WEST of the Smolensk-Severnyi military airport reveals that for an extended area, the terrain is DISTINCTLY LOWER than the airport itself, which is situated on a sort of plateau. The area to the WEST of the military airport is between 100 and 150 feet BELOW the plateau. In THAT case, the plane COULD NOT HAVE SCRAPED THE TOPS OF TREES, unless the trees were about 400 feet high.

(3): The investigation is being carried out under the supervision of Prime Minister Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, a senior GRU (Soviet Military Intelligence) Officer. Since any preplanned sabotage would precisely have been organised by the GRU, the investigation has of course been placed in the hands of the perpetrators, which is standard practice in these cover-up operations, in both the covert Soviet Union and the United States: in case you didn't know.


Read entire article here - www.worldreports.org...


[edit on 14-4-2010 by WWJFKD]




posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 11:44 PM
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THE KEY FIGURES IDENTIFIED AMONG THE CASUALTIES
Among the dead were the following:

• Blasik, Andrzej, Chief of the Polish Air Force.
• Bochenek, Krystyna, Deputy Speaker of the Polish Senate.
• Chodakowski, Archbishop Miron, Orthodox Ordinary of the Polish Army.
• Deptula, Leszek, Member of the Sejm (Lower House of Parliament).
• Dolniak, Grzegorz, Member of the Sejm.
• Fetlinska, Janina, Member of the Polish Senate.
• Gagor, General Franciszek, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff.
• Gesicka, Grazyna, Member of the Sejm.
• Gosiewski, Przemyslaw, Member of the Sejm.
• Handzlik, Mariusz, Undersecretary of State in President's Office.
• Jaruga-Nowacka, Izabela, Member of the Sejm.
• Karpiniuk, Sebastian, Member of the Sejm.
• Karweta, Vice Admiral Andrzej, Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Navy.
• Kaczynski, Lech, President of the Republic of Poland.
• Kaczynski, Mrs, wife of the President of the Republic.
• Kochanowski, Janusz, Polish Ombudsman for Citizen Rights.
• Kremer, Andrzej, Polish Deputy Foreign Minister.
• Kurtyka, Janusz, Historian and President of the Institute of National Remembrance.
• Natalli-Swiat, Aleksandra, Member of the Sejm.
• Nurowski, Piotr, President of the Polish Olympic Committee.
• Plazynski, Maciej, President of the Polish Community Association.
• Ploski, Tadeusz, Bishop of the Military Ordinariate of the Polish Army.
• Przewoznik, Andrzej, Secretary-General, Council for Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites.
• Putra, Krzysztof, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm.
• Rumianek, Ryszard, Rector of the Cardinal Stefan Wyszynski University.
• Rybicki, Arkadiusz, Member of the Sejm.
• Skrzypek, Slawomir, President of the National Bank of Poland.
• Stasiak, Wladyslaw, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland.
• Szczyglo, Aleksander, Head of the National Security Bureau.
• Szmajdzinski, Jerzy, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm.
• Szymanek-Deresz, Jolanta, Member of the Sejm.
• Walentynowicz, Anna, free trade union activist, member of Solidarity (Solidarity heroine).
• Wassermann, Zbigniew, Member of the Sejm.
• Woda, Wieslaw, Member of the Sejm.
• Wojtas, Edward, Member of the Sejm.
• Wypych, Pawel, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland.
• Zajac, Stanislaw, Member of the Senate
… and several other Members of the Sejm.

ALL POLAND’S TOP PEOPLE WIPED OUT IN ONE HIT
To recapitulate, Poland lost, in addition to the President of the Polish Republic and his wife:

• The Chief of the Polish Air Force.
• The Chief of the Polish Army General Staff.
• The Commander-in-chief of the Polish Navy.
= ALL THE MILITARY SERVICE CHIEFS.

• The head of Polish Intelligence (National Security Bureau).

• The three top officials inside the Office of the President of the Republic.

• The Governor of the National Bank of Poland.

• The Deputy Foreign Minister of Poland.


[edit on 14-4-2010 by WWJFKD]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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To me this is a conspiracy whose time has come. I'm not there on the ground overseeing the "investigation", but I know one thing through my years of experience in Executive protection. Absolutely under no circumstances do you transport this many important persons in the same conveyance. It is not done.

A move of this magnitude would involve multiple forms of conveyance, Air. Car, Rail, Tele-Conference, possibly even Sea and it would take place over some period of time. there would even be decoys involved to insure that just such a thing does not occur.

This is the only thing I know for sure but I speculate through some of the reading I have done about the President who was staunchly against the EU assimilation of Poland and had recently hired a new Banking head to help insure it didn't happen made some waves in the big pool and was dealt with - harshly.

It is also reasonable to me that the GRU brought this about as the Missile Defense Shield has been a serious bone of contention with Putin for some time now. Who knows, will we ever? I have my doubts. But I stand firm on my assessment regarding the total breech of security protocol involved in this flight.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 11:59 PM
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Yeah and the Russians made them go around 4 times cause they missed them trees the first 3 times...



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:04 AM
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Wow, governments never carry all their top people like that on the same plane. That is incredibly strange.

My gut instinct when I first heard the story was that Russia did it. And that's still my conjecture. But how does the president of Poland not know to not get on a plane with almost all the rulers of the country?? weird. I mean really. Us very average unimportant people here on ATS even know that.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:05 AM
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All I can say is f......k.

I am still in shock and I am certain Warsaw and all of Poland are scared/shocked/angry/grieving/bargaining/fearful/........



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:10 AM
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Star and flagged

I find it absurd that they placed that many people of importance on the flight. Even for Poland, I'm sure they have enough money to not put everyone together........

Why wouldn't any of the Chiefs object to it? Especially the head of the Air Force.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:11 AM
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Pure conjecture follows


The grounds for suspicion are numerous.

1. The plane was Russian and had recently been "refurbished" in Russia.
One blogger, a pilot, wrote, "Circumstances, however, point to a major accident or intentional blocking of the control system. Such a blockade may be intentionally installed so that it launched at a release from the chassis or flaps on the line immediately before landing." (Most information is from articles linked on Jane Burgermeister's site.)

2. As in the Pentagon attack, where there was no wreckage, there were no bodies to be found. Here is the YouTube. If the plane was at tree height, there would have been survivors. There would have been bodies. There would been luggage. As with the 9-11 passengers, it is possible the occupants were taken off the plane somewhere else, held or murdered. On Saturday, Russian authorities said all bodies had been found. On Monday the story had changed.

A Polish observer wrote: "Given the unlikelihood of Poland's top political and military leaders flying on the same plan, the execution or kidnapping of some of them in Poland cannot be ruled out. To explain their deaths to the general public, their names could have been added to the passenger list. According to media, only 14 bodies could be identified in Moscow with the rest being too badly burned."

A Polish friend wrote to me:"There is no sign of even one body or blood, the Polish cameraman thought that the plane was empty and when he was walking and recording it, he just noticed in shock that the plane was Polish but still didn't know it was President's plane.

"The plane was very low, at the level of trees but they could recognize only 14 bodies, the rest was shattered into pieces or burnt and needed DNA testing.

"They never called any ambulances, no doctors, only one fire engine and immediately they stated that nobody survived.In this video there is nobody searching for bodies, nobody looking if any people needed help, just fire engine and quite quickly coffins were sent. They said first that all the bodies were found and then next day, that only 14 could be recognized and they were still searching for bodies. There is lie after lie. Most of the people on the plane were the president's supporters and belonged to his party, being in strong opposition to prime minister who wasn't there.The cameraman was caught and pushed away from the place, he said later on TV that there was no chance there could be over 80 bodies ( which was cut off later from TV interview), he hasn't seen even one."

3. The entourage was supposed to travel by train. Suddenly the plans were changed and the generals were induced to join the group.

4. Eye witnesses heard explosions. A bomb? Another said the fog appeared just before the landing and quickly dispersed afterward. The Russians claimed the pilot didn't speak Russian which turned out to be a lie. The New York Times peddled the story that the President made the pilot land against his better judgment. This is the same New York Times that hid Stalin's mass murders from the American people.

My Polish friend writes: "Others say clearly about hearing the noise like from a bomb exploding and then silence.Besides, if there are awful conditions the plane is not allowed to land and the airport is closed for landing.

"It seems, that they were just normally trying to land with no worries and problems and suddenly something happened with the plane that lead all of them to death.

"The most valuable, christian and patriotic head of Poland has been wiped out with one blow, now the way is free, nobody will interrupt big brother any more."

I don't know how the Satanists pulled off 9-11 but I know the official story is not true. The same applies here. Accidents like this don't happen by accident. In one stroke, the globalist Masons, who are behind Putin as well as Obama, removed a thorn in their side.

Yes the Poles are in Afghanistan, but they had been steering an independent course on the Euro and the EU, and they rejected the swine flu vaccine and hysteria.

By virtue of its Catholic heritage, Poland is one of the last bastions of civilization in Europe. This will make the struggle of the Polish people, and all those resisting satanic and globalist enslavement, all the more difficult.


www.henrymakow.com...

3. The entourage was supposed to travel by train. Suddenly the plans were changed and the generals were induced to join the group.


[edit on 15-4-2010 by WWJFKD]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:18 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Adding:

Visibility was limited, but not to the point of closing the airport. The airport was not closed. It was said that the tower adviced the plane to fly to a different airport (because of "bad weather"). Adviced? They'd either get permission to land or not. There's no room for negotiations. It turns out that the pilots knew Russian very well, so the reports of communication (language) problems is also not true. It was stated almost immediately that the crash was not caused by any technical failure of the plane. How did they know that, when the debris was still smoking in the forest and had not been examined at all? It would take days, if not weeks, to determine whether a technical failure of the plane was the cause of the crash or not.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by Hellmutt
 


In a sentence - The whole thing sounds very "Cold War KGB" to me - That is purely my opinion. It's not even a good cover-up. Just a simple "Because WE say so. and therefore it is so."

just my .02



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:51 AM
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This video almost deserves its own thread. I believe this is the one that is mentioned above. Note also they were obviously shot at getting this footage. Anything seem odd about this footage. I mean I'm accustomed to all the bodies being gone but don't when planes crash they leave a small smoldering crater in the ground and the the plane itself disentegrates. I'm sure that's how I remember it from somewhere. Hmmmm....

hoping the nuances of my sarcasm are not lost on type...

www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by WWJFKD
To me this is a conspiracy whose time has come. I'm not there on the ground overseeing the "investigation", but I know one thing through my years of experience in Executive protection. Absolutely under no circumstances do you transport this many important persons in the same conveyance. It is not done.


I agree 100%. I was telling my wife this morning, that when I worked for a company that installed lumber handling equipment, when we all went to a site we had to take several different flights. The president of the company insisted on it. there were only about 12 of us that went, but how would a small company recover from the loss of all it's key personnel? Now put that into this context. There almost seems no way anybody would be that stupid. I think there is quite a bit more to this.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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Agreed. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Add to that the fact that Russian history is peppered with occasions when they've split Poland with other countries (Prussia/Austria, Congress of Viena, Nazi Germany) and you start to get a not so very nice feeling in the pit of your stomach.

The decision by our current leader to pull the rug out from under our allies on the whole Missile Defense Shield may have played into it. I know Poland was UNHAPPY about that decision. I recall one of their leaders saying he felt betrayed. This decision may have set the stage for certain countries to feel they could get away with things in the theater and encounter no American response.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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I am from Poland.
Please, US citizens - do not talk about things you have no idea about.

Please admins, remove that topic.

WWJFKD, you have no data to make such topic, imho.
You made another BS without knowledge.


[edit on 15-4-2010 by potential_problem]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by potential_problem
 


are you saying that this is incorrect information? The president and many cabinet members were not on the same plane that crashed?

Please clarify.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 03:03 PM
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It does beg to question: Were they actually on the plane?

Where are the bodies?



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by potential_problem
 


Really? really? Because the topic & OP look fine to me, it's your post that seems to be the BS.

Care to enlighten us?



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Hellmutt
 


An airport is never "closed" to a pilot. Air traffic controllers only give "advice." The pilot in command of his plane is the final decision maker in all cases, without exception. If he crashes, without mechanical failure, then it is always "pilot error." NTSB may list a lot of contributing causes like visiblity, and wind shear, and improper loading of the plane, but the PIC (pilot in command) knows from day one that every decision is his.

I agree with all of the suspicious looking facts, but I ask the OP, how would Russia make Poland do the stupid thing of putting all those people on one plane? Bringing it down is the easy part, but how do you get the people on it?



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Well, we are being told here in the mainland by the MSM that they were all on the plane. We have video that shows no bodies at the crashsite (something we should all be accustomed to by now). Perhaps they were removed earlier. It seems clear that some authority was on the site when the cameramen arrived. We have the assertion that some effort was made to split the party conveyance - as well there should have been - but the rail plan was cancelled and that puts everyone on the plane. It seems clear that there was at least a plane. The plane crashed. I'll even give you fog on that video. and that is really all that I am sure of.

Blackwater alone had 22,000 men on its call list in 2006. that's one company and 22,000 men at least, who know that you never transport that many assets by one conveyance. Mossad knows it. Spetnatz knows it and I'm quite certain the Polish security forces know it. The MSM has told the American public and some very well versed Executive Protection personnel that Poland moved basically their whole leadership in one plane. It doesn't wash, not even a little bit. under no circumstance. Yet someone wants us to believe this is what happened and apparently very badly to contrive such a ridiculous scenario riddled with holes.

in the realm of speculation. The date was certainly significant in Polish history. The missile defense shield has been a thorn in the side of Putin for some time. And after a little research I find that the former Polish President was staunchly against the idea of Polands assimilation into the EU and even hired a new Banking head to try to avert it - who incidenty was also on the plane and one could imagine how enticing it would be to certain entities to remove this kind of fervent opposition.

I don't know what happened. I don't know if anyone was even on the plane. The only thing I know with absolute certainty is Executive Protection and this is not how it is done. My gut tells me something very evil has occured.

And to Potential-Problem please regale us with the facts if we have it so wrong. Were trying to reconcile this and if you have any information you would care to share with us to keep us on the right track please do, or was that code for its none of your business?



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 


I totally agree with the outrageousness of the claim that they were all on one plane. I have worked for small corporations that insisted their people fly on separate flights. I have had my plans bumped to a later flight when another executive decided to attend and even the regular staff assistants and travel liasons knew that we could not fly together. And we were not CEO types, just regional management.

So, no matter what type of rail problem there was, I can't believe that a government of this size and age would make such a stupid decision.

I do fully believe the account of the crash however, so where does that leave me?

I have heard a lot of pollock jokes in my lifetime, a lot of stereotypes are based in fact you know?


I mean honestly, it has to be one of the stupidest and most bone-headed tragedies of all time, or a conspiracy? Those are the only two plausible scenarios.



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