Bush vs. Kerry - Educate me!

I thought I would leave the "Mosh Pit" (that is the Political Mud Pit - ) for a bit to try to get some information.

As I have stated before, I have not decided which candidate to vote for. Most of my views are somewhat conservative (except my views on education, which are pretty liberal), so if I see a tie, I will vote for Bush. However, I need to educate myself. Here's a proposition:

Can we use this thread NOT to one-up each other and insult the other side, but rather to educate each other (including me) as to the policies that each side brings to the table? I could use some educating here. Democrats - here's your chance to get a few more votes for Kerry. Republicans - here's your chance to gain support back for Bush. As for me, I will enjoy reading this thread, if we use it for educating each other.

They are both awful leaders natas, both on the right, both souless, politcal spinners fatcats. In fact they are both in the same secret society, do a search on 'skull and bones'.

However, for the good of America and the world, I recommend voting dummycrat. You just have to look at the trail of damage Bush has left already, in Iraq and at home.

You really think that you are going to get away from getting this thread away from the mud pit? you are dreaming.

As to answer well, all you have to do is turn your TV on and see what Mr. Bush is doing every day he is a retarded.

Well Kerry in the other had have not done anything yet to be call retarded so let's way and see.

!!!Mud Pit!!!!

I would like this to be educational - I'm not putting any of you down, but saying Bush is retarded and to bring up skull and bones (secret Yale society - yes, I know all about it) is not going to sway any votes, nor encourage good discussion.

I would like to hear about policies. I know I could probably read up on what each candidate says, but I want opinions on how you think their policies will work.

Please - let's try to stay away from Mud Pit slogans and sayings. I am trying to keep this one educational. We can do this - right?

Originally posted by natas
IPlease - let's try to stay away from Mud Pit slogans and sayings. I am trying to keep this one educational. We can do this - right?

Nope, we only sling large, smelly pieces of mud around here, sorry natas.

Originally posted by marg6043
You really think that you are going to get away from getting this thread away from the mud pit? you are dreaming.

It can stay as long as posters attempt to do legitimate contrast and comparisons without too much empty bashing on either candidate.

And zero personal attacks on other posters please.

There are repurcussions for that sort of thing outside the pit.

www.johnkerry.com...
AND
www.georgebush.com

I've only skimmed the part about National Security because that's mostly what I'm interested in, I have yet to educate myself on the MEANING of the other statements, but...they're both going to keep patriot act and national sec. enhancement in some form.

Bush likes it the way it is, Kerry wants changes to the "Ashcroft Era." I haven't found much talk about the N.S.Enhancement, seems they're avoiding that.

I've seen a lot more mud-slinging from Bush than Kerry, a lot of misconstrued statements and propaganda....

As a stated Republican and not always proud of that I have come to a conclusion. It is probably going to be Kerry that wins this election or another Democrat. The reason I think this, and it is not because I like Kerry, is because I think the government plays a round robin with the White House. Republicans come in kick butt take names and then it is the Democrats turn to make us pay the bills. I on the other hand will vote for ????????????

Originally posted by Jamuhn
www.johnkerry.com...
AND
www.georgebush.com

Good Jamuhn.

Also a pretty clear cut test you can take to see which Candidate lines up on the issues for you...

PresidentialMatch.com

Even when I tried to cheat and make it say Edwards (when still in it), it always came out Kerry for me.

From the comparison portion of the site (since people rarely clicks links that might actually teach them something):

ISSUES..............................KERRY.........................BUSH

Abortion
Appoint Judges Who Will Outlaw Abortions
...........................................Strongly Opposes.......Strongly Favor
Outlaw "Partial Birth" Abortions
...........................................Strongly Opposes.......Strongly Favor
Outlaw Abortions Except for Rape/Incest
...........................................Strongly Opposes.......Strongly Favor
Parental Notification for Minors Under 18
...........................................Strongly Opposes.......Strongly Favor

Gay Rights
Constitutional Gay Marriage Ban
...........................................Somewhat Opposes...Strongly Favor
Equal Rights for Civil Unions
...........................................Strongly Favor............Somewhat Opposes
Allow Gays to Openly Serve in the Military
...........................................Strongly Favor............Strongly Opposes

Religion in Government
Organized Prayer in Public Schools
...........................................Strongly Opposes.......Strongly Favor
Commandments Displayed in Federal Buildings
...........................................Strongly Opposes.......Strongly Favor
Federal Funding of Religious Charities
...........................................Strongly Opposes.......Strongly Favor

Gun Control
Safety Devices on All New Guns
...........................................Strongly Favor.............Strongly Opposes
Background Checks on Gun Show Purchases
...........................................Strongly Favor.............Somewhat Opposes
Require Safety Course, License Before Gun Purchase
...........................................Somewhat Favor..........Strongly Opposes
Allow Lawsuits Against Gun Manufacturers
...........................................Somewhat Favor...........Strongly Opposes

Death Penalty
Abolish the Death Penalty
...........................................Strongly Opposes..........Strongly Opposes
National Review of Death Penalty Fairness
...........................................Strongly Favor...............Strongly Opposes

Education
No Child Left Behind Act
...........................................Somewhat Favor............Strongly Favor
Vouchers for Public, Private or Religious Schools
...........................................Strongly Opposes...........Strongly Favor
Increase Federal Funding for Higher Education
...........................................Somewhat Favor............Somewhat Opposes

Homeland Security
The Patriot Act
............................................Strongly Opposes..........Strongly Favor
Tighter Immigration Controls
............................................Strongly Favor...............Strongly Favor

Iraq
The War in Iraq
............................................Somewhat Opposes........Strongly Favor
Turning Over More Political Authority to U.N.
............................................Somewhat Favor..............Strongly Opposes
Immediate Withdrawal of U.S. Troops
............................................Strongly Opposes............Strongly Opposes

Foreign Trade
Embargo on Cuba
............................................Somewhat Favor...............Strongly Favor
U.S. Involvement in NAFTA
............................................Strongly Favor...................Strongly Favor
Mandatory Labor/Environment Standards in Trade Agreements
............................................Somewhat Favor...............Strongly Opposes

Health Care
Universal Government-Supervised Health Care
............................................Somewhat Opposes...........Strongly Opposes
Medicare Prescription Drugs Coverage By Private Insurers
............................................Strongly Opposes...............Strongly Favor
Expand Medicaid to Cover More Uninsured Americans
............................................Strongly Favor....................No Opinion
Limit Malpractice Suits Against Doctors, Insurers
............................................Somewhat Favor................Strongly Favor

Welfare Reform
Hiring Welfare Workers Tax Incentive
............................................No Opinion..........................Somewhat Opposes
Welfare Benefits for Legal Immigrants
............................................Strongly Favor.....................Somewhat Opposes
Child Care Services for Getting Off Welfare
............................................No Opinion...........................Somewhat Opposes

Social Security
Raise Retirement Age
.............................................Strongly Opposes................No Opinion
Privatize Social Security
.............................................Strongly Opposes................Strongly Favor
Cap Payments to Wealthy
.............................................Somewhat Favor..................Strongly Opposes

Tax Cuts
Roll Back the Bush Administration Tax Cuts
..............................................Somewhat Opposes............Strongly Opposes
Roll Back Cuts for People Making Over $100,000
..............................................Strongly Favor.....................Strongly Opposes
Additional Tax Cuts for Businesses
..............................................Strongly Opposes.................Strongly Favor

Jobs
Raise the Minimum Wage
..............................................Strongly Favor.......................Strongly Opposes
Extend Unemployment Benefits
..............................................Strongly Favor.......................Strongly Opposes

Environment
Oil Drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge
...............................................Strongly Opposes.................Strongly Favor
Mandatory Clean Air Emissions Standards
...............................................Strongly Favor......................Somewhat Opposes
Tougher Fuel Efficiency Standards
................................................Strongly Favor.....................Strongly Opposes

Though the positions shouldn't surprise anyone not living under a rock, I'd imagine the only surprise to some people may be how actually moderate Kerry is on some issues (depspite Bush ads to the contrary) and how extreme Bush actually is on issues he'd just as soon people not know about...like the environment and abortion.

Enjoy.

A Bonesmans is a Bonesman is a Bonesman, only difference in this case is one is and experienced President and they differ on ways on how to spend your tax dollars. Demopublicans, they all dance to Wall Street.

www.prisonplanet.com...





[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Regenmacher]

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Regenmacher]

www.rnc.org/gopinfo/platform

www.democrats.org/about/2000platform.html

Also need those if you want to know your candidates.

Originally posted by RANT

Though the positions shouldn't surprise anyone not living under a rock, I'd imagine the only surprise to some people may be how actually moderate Kerry is on some issues (depspite Bush ads to the contrary) and how extreme Bush actually is on issues he'd just as soon people not know about...like the environment and abortion.

Enjoy.

By abortion I assume you mean sanctioned murder, and by the environment you mean the arctic national wilde life reserve, where they want to drill is a permafrosted frozen waste land and they only want to drill on several hundred acres, out of 19 million square miles.

To give you an example of how big that disparity is, 640 acres is 1 square mile.

I think it's about 900 acres they want to drill on? So let's to a figuring.

Oh my, they want to drill on 1/13511111.1 of the Arctic wild life preserve.

Oh it's 2000 acres so I guess I have to do another calculation.

They want to drill on 1/6080000 of the ANWR.

Oh my god...that's just such a freaking catastrophy!

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Banshee]

errrg I still can't edit my posts, I'll get someone to fix that face thing I expected it to wrap, anyways it's square acres ~.~ still 2000/19000000 or 1/95000 of the ANWR, whatever....still a miniscule amount.

Originally posted by FreeMason
By abortion I assume you mean sanctioned murder, and by the environment you mean the arctic national wilde life reserve, where they want to drill is a permafrosted frozen waste land and they only want to drill on several hundred acres, out of 19 million square miles.

To give you an example of how big that disparity is, 640 acres is 1 square mile.

I think it's about 900 acres they want to drill on? So let's to a figuring.

Oh my, they want to drill on 1/13511111.1 of the Arctic wild life preserve.

The chart speaks for itself. If you're anti-choice and pro-big oil, which you clearly are...then by all means VOTE BUSH! Yippee.

And by all means all fans of prayer in school, no seperation of Church and State in courts, people who can't wait for a background check to get their guns, and don't want saftey devices to protect kids, think tinkering with the Consititution to enforce the second class citizenship of gays is a good thing, are against funding higher education, think reviewing the application of the death penalty is a can of worms not worth looking into, think every god damn thing you can shake a stick at should be privatized including social security and anything having to do with healthcare....basically anyone that enjoys bending over for Pharmaceuticals and Oil.....

Then go for it.


The choice is clear.

I'm not criticizing, or bashing. I mean it. The choice is clear. If that's what you want. You know who to vote for.

The issues are what they are. There's no knit-picking or justification. If you think all abortion is "murder" vote Bush. If higher emissions standards are just "silly" vote Bush. It's a hell of a platform the RNC put together. Go for it.

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by RANT]

Some of the issues that I am concerned about are:

National Security

The Economy

The Environment

Cost of Health Care

For me, on the first two issues I agree with Bush.
National Security is our responsibility and duty.
Kerry would put our security into the hands of the United Nations, which I believe is a corrupt, anti-American organization. People do not realize how corrupt and anti-American the UN is, and all they hear from Kerry is that he wants to "restore our global alliances". But he doesn't say WHY France, Germany and Russia were against us in Iraq. Believe me, it was NOT any great noble humanitarian consideration. It was the fact that they stood to lose BIG TIME if Saddam was gone. But Kerry plays it up like he is the world ambassador for global union. Political expediency for the uneducated.

The Economy
Bush has managed to pull us out of the Clinton-Gore recession, and has helped us to recover from the disaster of 9/11, when the markets lost about $1 Trillion in value. The job market is coming back strongly, and the Dow is now back up over 10,000. Good work by Bush, especially in light of everything else that is going on.

The Environment
I give him a B. I am not a tree-hugger, but I'm not a polluter. I yell at my kids when they throw a gum rapper out of the car window.

Bush has funded hydrogen cell research for autos. I agree with that. I am for drilling in Alaska; FreeMason put out the figures of how liitle land would be affected. I was supportive of windmills in the waters off of Cape Cod, MA., which was shot down by environmentalists.

Kerry is too two-faced. Look at his contradictory statements about SUV ownership in his family. Plus, I know his ways well, having lived here in NE for 25 years. He will say and do whatever is politically expedient.

Health Care Costs
I am not finished studying that yet.

I dont like either of the idiots! But Bush sticks to what he says...

The only way that you will come to a decision is to educate yourself on the matter of who to choose. Information is vast on the two candidates that you listed. Trust is the major issue of choosing. Who do you trust the most? That question is the tough one when you know that you can't trust either as they are politicians and cannot be. Think about the future.

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by FreeMason
By abortion I assume you mean sanctioned murder, and by the environment you mean the arctic national wilde life reserve, where they want to drill is a permafrosted frozen waste land and they only want to drill on several hundred acres, out of 19 million square miles.

To give you an example of how big that disparity is, 640 acres is 1 square mile.

I think it's about 900 acres they want to drill on? So let's to a figuring.

Oh my, they want to drill on 1/13511111.1 of the Arctic wild life preserve.

The chart speaks for itself. If you're anti-choice and pro-big oil, which you clearly are...then by all means VOTE BUSH! Yippee.

And by all means all fans of prayer in school, no seperation of Church and State in courts, people who can't wait for a background check to get their guns, and don't want saftey devices to protect kids, think tinkering with the Consititution to enforce the second class citizenship of gays is a good thing, are against funding higher education, think reviewing the application of the death penalty is a can of worms not worth looking into, think every god damn thing you can shake a stick at should be privatized including social security and anything having to do with healthcare....basically anyone that enjoys bending over for Pharmaceuticals and Oil.....

Then go for it.


The choice is clear.

I'm not criticizing, or bashing. I mean it. The choice is clear. If that's what you want. You know who to vote for.

The issues are what they are. There's no knit-picking or justification. If you think all abortion is "murder" vote Bush. If higher emissions standards are just "silly" vote Bush. It's a hell of a platform the RNC put together. Go for it.

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by RANT]

Woooo weeeee!!!! Way to show how much you don't now...there is no "seperation of church and state" that is ONLY an opinion held by certain judges who believe they are following Jefferson's idea of America. The reality is the Constitution states NOTHING about "seperation of church and state" only that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT may not establish religions.

I capitalize the federal government because until 1833, states still had established religions.

If you don't even know what an established religion is you're not in the right forum.

Anyways, I have no problem with people who honestly believe in liberal ideology, problem is I have not met one liberal yet, who knows as much about American history and government as a conservative does.

Which leads me to one conclusion, liberals not knowing as much, side with a stupider and thus more incorrect platform.

America is before the French Revolution...so why are you trying to peddle ideologies that the French created by butchering their Peasants (I bet you thought they actually killed aristocracy in their Revolution too...)

You can knit pick all you want Freemason, and for that matter "Big Quote" too (I'll let another mod cite you there since you're quoting me).

But like I said, no point in knit picking it. I'm not arguing for or against hanging the 10 commandments in courthouses. I'm not even arguing for or against Bush giving money to Churches or any of that crap.

I'm just laying the issues out plain as day. If you like that sort of thing...vote Bush.

You may legitimately argue whatever you like about the pros and cons of the issues (somewhere else). But each politician's stands are clear.

I'm not trying to sway people, just illuminate the stands. What are you trying to do? Justify Bush's stands? Bash liberals? Bash me? Take it to the Mudpit then.

As for the history lesson, thanks but no thanks. I stand by my degrees, and find I get nothing from debating people that think their liberal history professors from college are all just stupid and Ann Coulter's reinterpretation of history is the paragon of truth. Yet saying you've never met a single liberal that knew anything about history says alot about you.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter if the ghosts of Forefather's past come visit me in my sleep to show me the error of my ways, and explain what they envisioned for America, how abortion is wrong, how prayer should be taught in schools, how there's only one true God and we serve Him...whatever.

Screw 'em. Things change. Too bad, so sad. There's no historical interpretation that will make me Christian or make me want to support it's Federal indoctrination with my tax dollars.

Are we clear? You and I have nothing to discuss.

[edit on 6-6-2004 by RANT]