Illegal Immigration is not the problem.

Before I start, I want to say I'm not attacking, just adding my $.02 in this discussion.

I see where you're coming from, but honestly it's people like you that really tick me off on this issue. I recently got laid off, but I've had my stance for a couple years before I got laid off. I woke up.

Illegal immigration is bad because these people are using resources that are paid for by legal citizens of the US via taxes. Medicare, welfare, and any other service that is meant for US citizens that are making poverty level wages are being used by people who have no intention of EVER becoming legal citizens of the US and paying back via taxes. Did you know that if there were no illegal aliens (or a reduction of 95%), the US would not be in as bad of a shape as it's in now? We'd actually be saving several billion dollars per annum.

Think about this: Why did the housing market crash and why is the actual unemployment in the US between 10 and 15 percent? Why is California, and other states, struggling to keep up with their budget? The answer to all these questions is illegal aliens.

These reasons, and many more, are the reasons why illegal immigration is bad. The anti-illegal immigration movement aren't composed of "racists," in fact I feel it's the other way around.

And for my final rant of my inaugural post in this thread, what's up with being "racist" anyway??? What's a race? We are taught a race is a sub group (read: different colors) of human beings, but this is NOT true. We all belong to one race...the human race. When we ALL figure this out, only then can we fix what we have done to ourselves and our planet. And only then, should we attempt to explore space, in manned missions, beyond Luna.

Ah, but it is to dream. It will happen one day, but I fear it won't happen even in my grandchildren's lives. There are things that humanity does that surprises me and gives me hope that change is truly on the horizon, and then no less than 50 other people make it appear to be an illusion.

reply to post by ponyboyats


I must respectfully disagree .

For me view of the issue is being in contracting we pay taxes ssi medicare state taxes unemployment insurance business license and bond insurance and the list goes on and on . How do you compete with 6 guys from another country not paying any of the of mentioned items bidding on the same jobs as you they bid for 1/2 the cost or less to match their price it be a huge loss of capitol we would loss money . Or compete with a company who pays their employees 1/2 or less of what we pay ours .

These people really want a better way of life but it does hurt companies and the general workers if you have a high population of illegal immigrants .

Come to the border states and talk to workers and companies .

reply to post by digifanatic

Edit to add*illegals don't usually usae food stamps or medicare they pay cash because they have no ssn unles fake one but not all od em have access to that
Well, I don't think illegal immigration is the only thing responsible for things you claim it is. There are tons of other factors involved. Secobdly I'm talking about the root of the problem which is that they use race etc to divide us I never said anything about racists. I like how you ended your response and I completely agree. And that at the end about us all being one race? That's exactly what I'm trying to promote here.

[edit on 17-4-2010 by ponyboyats]

reply to post by Lostinthedarkness

Immigration is only a problem due to a bigger problem.
Immigration is not THE problem u can read thru the thread to get idea of what I'm talkin about

[edit on 17-4-2010 by ponyboyats]

Originally posted by ponyboyats
Everyone today is talking about the topic of illegal immigration, so i thought id start another thread just for kicks. IMHO,

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

Here's something for you to reflect on. I'm assuming you're typing from America, despite the fact that you talk about world populations and so on.

America isn't the world. Things are different elsewhere for various reasons: politically, economically and sometimes geographically. Consider this: England (not Britain or the UK, just England alone) has 1/6th of The United States of America's population living in a land area that's 1/75 of The United States of America's land mass. As a result, our take on immigration, illegal or not, is a little different than America's.

An open door 'mi casa su casa' might be fine and dandy in somewhere the size of America but England, you're #ing dreaming, mate.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


My fault mate I shoulda mentioned I'm talking about america mostly. But the main message that I'm trying to promote that the whole worlds politucal system is corupted and therefore creates da problem of illegal imigration

Originally posted by ponyboyats
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

My fault mate I shoulda mentioned I'm talking about america mostly. But the main message that I'm trying to promote that the whole worlds politucal system is corupted and therefore creates da problem of illegal imigration

I appreciate that - I also appreciate you pointing out that you were "talking about america mostly".

However, you're setting up a false paradigm here. Genuine problems with immigration - illegal or not - and corrupt political systems aren't mutually exclusive. Yes, the latter may use the former as a scapegoat, but that doesn't mean the former is any less real.

Again, to use England as an example, our political system is pretty messed-up, with lots of corruption in various forms; I seem to be a lone voice regarding a catastrophic Private Finance Initiative system on this site. However, at the same time, immigration is a problem here. Often it's not recognised as such as there's such a disparity regarding immigration settlement and some areas simply don't see it to the extent that others do - despite people trying to complain about the situation for a long time and being dismissed as 'racist'.

It's not an 'either/or' paradigm. You can have genuine problems with immigration as well as broken politics.

Originally posted by ponyboyats
reply to post by Lostinthedarkness

 

Immigration is only a problem due to a bigger problem.
Immigration is not THE problem u can read thru the thread to get idea of what I'm talkin about

[edit on 17-4-2010 by ponyboyats]

Immigration is NOT the problem, so I agree. However, Illegal Immigration IS the problem. Believe it or not, illegal immigration is the cause of all those problems I mentioned and the problems that lostinthedarkness mentioned. These people do have SSN's by way of Identity theft so yes, they are using these programs.

I would like to offer you a thought experiment:
There are currently around 5 million (estimated, could be higher) illegal aliens in California alone. These 5 million do not pay taxes, work for below poverty level income, send their money back to their home countries, use tax paid programs, and crowd hospital ER's. What do you think this has done to businesses, jobs for legal citizens and aliens, emergency health care for legals, auto insurance prices, public roads, health care insurance prices for legals, the state budget bills, rental prices for houses and apartments, and taxes? Now take away those 5 million and what kind of conditions do you think would then exist? (hint: this has been done before in US history)

reply to post by digifanatic


people you dont get the point. the whole system is set up to where alot of the illegals have not much choice but to come here or die. i mean imagine a mother with a 2 year old crossing the desert? do you think she is risking her child's life because she has other options? i dont think so. in mexico only other option is to work construction for 10 dollars a day. can you feed a family on that? i mean the whole worlds system is set up to be unfair towards general population of the world in multiple ways, and illegal immigration is just one of those ways.

reply to post by ponyboyats


I agree...there are very few places in the world where it's actually good to live. Mexico, since you're calling a country out, isn't one of those but it doesn't mean they can break our laws of immigration and just cross the border and then expect to have their voices heard in regards to issues such as amnesty. If they want in, they do have another option and that is to apply for citizenship. Find an employer who's willing to sign off on a work visa so they can be here legally then apply for citizenship. That is the only option I see. Anyone else here illegally are criminals. Plain and simple. This is exactly why we need our military on our southern border.

reply to post by digifanatic


One there's not enough visas for evreyone and dey are hard 2 get. Two I'm talking about this topic in a very broad aspect. Laws are made to controll us so are borders we are all born to this earth equal who's to tell us whree we can live and what to do. The whole world is fd and this discussion is about that. Most laws are unfair and unnecessary

Originally posted by digifanatic
reply to post by ponyboyats

 

I agree...there are very few places in the world where it's actually good to live. Mexico, since you're calling a country out, isn't one of those but it doesn't mean they can break our laws of immigration and just cross the border and then expect to have their voices heard in regards to issues such as amnesty. If they want in, they do have another option and that is to apply for citizenship. Find an employer who's willing to sign off on a work visa so they can be here legally then apply for citizenship. That is the only option I see. Anyone else here illegally are criminals. Plain and simple. This is exactly why we need our military on our southern border.

I believe this is the problem. American's are out of touch with life everywhere else. They think everything is just how it is here. School in Mexico is only for the rich. I know this because I have family in Mexico. They're fortunate enough to be well off, doctors, school principal, etc. the good jobs. Unless you're born into this lifestyle like my relatives were, you're most likely not gonna have money for school. So of course they can't just "legally" apply for citizenship because they have no skills! They have nothing to offer because their country has denied them those things.

Somewhere else in this thread someone referred to the drug violence. Yes, there is terrible drug violence but why don't American's understand that it's US who are causing this violence. We use the most drugs! We're the one's demanding it so of course they're supplying it! Which is why the smart people of California realized it's better to just legalize. We stop the violence and get some tax money from it. I think we also realized how ridiculous it is to punish marijuana smokers. It's pretty apparent now that marijuana is a billion times less harmful that smoking cigarettes or drinking booze. That's a whole nother topic though.

It's also us who forced their crummy lifestyle on them so we can continue living how we like to live. We go down there, cut deals with their government, not the people. We rape their natural resources and exploit their cheap labor because not all countries have the same laws we have here in regards to wages and work hours! Their government is just like ours, made up of the rich guys looking out for the rich.

I do agree that illegal immigration is a problem but it's only a problem because we choose to make it that way. Because we let our government and corporations exploit other countries labor force and resources. Because we're too selfish. I'm with the OP here. It's been set up this way to divide us. They keep us on the issue of illegal immigration when it's they who created these problems in the first place.

Seriously, think about it. Don't you think they would much rather stay in their home country if they could? They wouldn't have to leave family, struggle with a new language, have constant fear of being deported, get accustomed to an entirely new culture etc.

If you really think they're exploiting the system much, I'll use health care for this one. Seriously, go to a public hospital like I had to recently because I lost coverage on my parents plan as I'm 22 now. Take a look around, the system is deplorable. I never want to go back there again. I'm more afraid of getting sick in those hospitals than thinking I'm gonna be cured.

Thanks OP for trying to spread a positive message. It's a shame that people can be so selfish. If you guys want illegal immigration to stop, then tell our government and corporations to stop exploiting the third world. They already exploit us right under our very noses, imagine what the conditions are like in those third world countries. The solution is so simple but people make it out to be so much worse than it really is.

Originally posted by ponyboyats
reply to post by digifanatic

 

people you dont get the point. the whole system is set up to where alot of the illegals have not much choice but to come here or die. i mean imagine a mother with a 2 year old crossing the desert? do you think she is risking her child's life because she has other options? i dont think so. in mexico only other option is to work construction for 10 dollars a day. can you feed a family on that? i mean the whole worlds system is set up to be unfair towards general population of the world in multiple ways, and illegal immigration is just one of those ways.

I respect your compassion for these people. No one wants to see another suffer for any reason. However, let's say you invite an illegal into your home, you share your food, home etc. One day the illegal begs you to allow his wife and children to come. You say ok and continue sharing. Then he wants his parents, aunts and uncles to be able to have a better life. You keep your doors open. One day you realize you no longer can afford to feed your children or keep a roof over your heads. You lose your job because illegals are able to do it for less wages. Now what?

I have to point some things out that I hope you take into consideration. First the whole bit about Americans not doing the jobs that the illegals will do is a lie. I have worked in places that turned my legal friends away and hired illegals instead. I have worked in a high paying factory and the illegals are there as well. They may not have made as much as the legal workers but they still made well over minumum wage.

Here is another thing I'd like you to know. Our once safe and clean neighborhoods are filled with illegals who have changed our neighborhoods drastically. Gunshots, drugs, thefts, murders, pedophiles etc. are the norm. Trash everywhere, graffiti, stores that need metal bars in front of the windows. It is quite the sight.

What about all our citizens who have fallen through the cracks and are living in tent cities? All the while the illegals come and work our system so that they are provided for. I am saddend for the elderly and anyone else who is a citizen who cannot get help with medical or food stamps because they make like 3.00 too much! This sickens me.

Tell me if you can, why are the illegals that are coming over the borders more important than a citizen or a starving African? I have never in my life seen a starving hispanic. I'm not saying they don't suffer, I'm simply saying there are people as bad off and worse. I could go on and on how illegals are affecting us. Truth is, someone always comes along in these threads calling people like myself a racist or whatever. many people easily ignore the facts and rave on and on about the poor immigrants. Many of our people are hungry and homeless. Many of our legal citizens of every race are suffering even though they worked hard their entire lives. It has all been for nothing.

reply to post by conspiracy88


Americans are NOT out of touch with reality. We are well aware of the plight of the third world countries. I can't tell you how many kind hearted Americans have donated money, food, clothing, medical supplies etc to these people. I for one have always given without reservation even when I didn't make much money.

People think that America is an endless supply of resources that can save the world. Here is a reality check for you: We can not! Don't you people think that for one second if it were possible to save the entire world and we could all live happily ever after, we would?

Let me ask you, why do you completely ignore the fact that we have right here in our back yards, people who are homeless and hungry? Have you seen their faces? They are of different colors and races who are legal citizens. Yes, imagine that, oh my God, America has homeless and hungry people. Americans have suicidal people who are so overwhelmed by the lot that life has given them that they choose to end it all. But that's ok. No problem. The rest of the world is ok with that.

People please think before you post! If I could save the world I would but I can't. If other Americans could save the world they would. What is so difficult for you people to understand?? Oh Americans are so selfish and cruel and racist and are the scum of the earth. That is the type of responses we get. Yeah ok, keep singing your songs. keep holding on to fallacies and ignorence. I am insulted and frustrated by people who wear blinders. I will stand up for our legal citizens who are suffering, whos' voice is no longer heard.

reply to post by conspiracy88

Finally a voice of reason. That is why I have hope in peoples good heart. U put that very well
My friend. I forgot about tha education. Its true anythibg above 8th grade is like private schools. U pay to play. The system is rigged based on special interests. Interests of those who are born into money

reply to post by Night Star


Yessir let me lead you on now. Everyone is suffering africans illegal immigrants even hard working legal cituzens! Now what is the root problem of that? Illegal immigration? No. It also has a root cause. Read the post rite above yours he said it first. From what I see there are a lot of people on these boards that only read the op and the last post, so I have to constantly keep repeating myself and answer the same questions. Just think of THE ROOT of the proble
m

reply to post by Night Star

And to answer ur first question. Yes I live in a similar comunity. We have one big piece of land and 4 trailers/brick houses sit on it. If someones uncle needs a place to stay we let them stay with us and wife and dog. In return they either help out with things around da house, pouring a foundation for the next house or ant kinda construction work like buildibg bridges or fences. Slowly our community is improving and everyones way of life. Just recently we fixed da horrible drive way. That's how all people should live. Helpin each other. That's how I live(and yes it is a comunity of mostly illegals )

reply to post by Night Star


Gosh man wht u go off into attack mode. Noone in this thread said anything about americans being racist or evil. Yes, americans are also suffering just like illegals they are victims.TPTB or the lawmakers or elite they made laws that way so u all suffer and be divided and bitch at each other while da purpotrators get away w 911 and trillion dolar scams. And until americans illegals russians africans and all those groups they separated us into can come to realize they are all on the same side well forever bicker about how bad illegal immigration is!

Originally posted by ponyboyats
reply to post by Night Star

 

Gosh man wht u go off into attack mode. Noone in this thread said anything about americans being racist or evil. Yes, americans are also suffering just like illegals they are victims.TPTB or the lawmakers or elite they made laws that way so u all suffer and be divided and bitch at each other while da purpotrators get away w 911 and trillion dolar scams. And until americans illegals russians africans and all those groups they separated us into can come to realize they are all on the same side well forever bicker about how bad illegal immigration is!

Sorry, I just get so frustrated in these types of threads. I know TPTB are to blame as are the people employing illegals and taking advantage of them by paying less than standard wages.

You have to understand that all countries need borders. To just allow anyone in without a background check is extremely dangerous. Along with the nice folks who want a better living come the gang members, thieves, murderers etc. Too many innocent lives have been lost already.

Legal citizens who need help and are turned away because of 3.00 over the poverty limit are resentful, insulted and feel abandoned by their own country while they see illegals waltz in and recieve free medical, cheap housing, etc etc. It is a slap in the face to anyone who has worked their butts off their entire lives, who were always law abiding citizens and payed into the system. I'm sorry but this isn't right. Nor is it right that so many people need jobs in order to survive while so many illegals are holding the available positions.

How can I be happy for an illegal knowing they are having a better life at the expense of another who has been here their entire lives as a legal citizen? When my Mom was in the hospital a couple of months ago, her roomate who was 86 was denied help with her medical expenses because she made 3.00 lousy dollars too much! To know that if she were illegal she would get the help she needs is so sad.

Back when I had a job, I had friends who had families to care for and needed employment. To see them turned away while illegals were hired made me sad. Yes the company knew they were illegals and should have been punished. The thing is our laws are meaningless sometimes and people are getting hurt at every turn. My heart breaks for these people.

Many years ago my husband and I needed help with medical. We never ever asked for food stamps, cheap housing or free medical, just help paying for the thousands of dollars in medical bills. We made 5.00 too much and were turned away. We never owned a home or a new car or had cable or cell phones, we were making minum wage and barely getting by. we had to work endless hours of overtime to get by and it took us many years to pay those bills. I had one dress that I had to wear at every special function. We didn't have a greedy lifestyle. Now here we are 30 years later and jobless. How is right that illegals can come here and have free medical, cheap housing etc??? AND they own nice vehicals, have cable, fancy cell phones and all the luxeries in life while sending money to families in their own country? Also they would take 3 week vacations from work to visit their countries. And here we have hungry and homeless citizens.

reply to post by Night Star


Yes i do understand because I AM facing the same situation everyone else is in. If it wasn't for my girlfriend I would be homeless! Literally. I thank god everyday that I have her because if it wasn't for her I'd have nowhere to go. The thing is that I don't go around blaming illegals for this problem. The problem is the establishment. If corporate America followed the law then these illegals wouldn't be hired in the first place. If our government wasn't out attacking innocent countries and instead guarded our borders, these illegals wouldn't be here! If our corporations weren't out there taking advantage of other countries' resources and labor they wouldn't be here! The problem is OUR government. Please watch Food Inc if you haven't. It touches on illegal immigration a bit and it shows you exactly what our corporations are doing. I hope it can enlighten you a bit as to what the problem really is.

Edit: Oh and please know a little bit more about the subject before you post. Everything you said is no different than everyone else out there blaming illegals instead of their own government.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by conspiracy88]