Mental Disorder?

reply to post by Klaatumagnum


appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy. You have not really addressed anything i have said instead you have used emotion to leverage some support. Some people will swear that wearing a dime store crystal around their neck helped them lose weight, but it does not really change the fact that a magic crystal is a work of fiction.

reply to post by zaiger



There's a difference between being depressed due to an event like a parent's death and depressive disorder, which is the diagnosis. In order to be diagnosed with depression you have to be suffering from it for at least 6 months straight. Most people who lose a parent may feel extremely sad for a few weeks, but eventually they will be able to continue on as normal even if the feelings continue. With actual depressive disorder, the feelings continue unabated for long periods of time, and during those period the people suffering are not usually able to function in any way.

As for brain structure, while wiring may differ from person to person, the general anatomy of the brain is pretty set. The size of these structures are in a very specific proportion to one another, so when one is clearly significantly smaller or larger than what they should be, it does create serious problems. And even wiring of the brain can be faulty. For example in OCD the normal communication between the orbitofrontal cortex, the caudate nucleus, and the thalamus, fires continuously. Since these structures have some control over emotions and motivated behavior. So, the person experiences feelings of dread and in response they perform a behavior of some form. This faulty wiring can be detected and after therapy this connection works as it normally should.

Also, to suggest that all research on treatment of mental disorders is done by pharmaceutical companies ignores mountains of literature discussing studies by clinical psychologist, cognitive neruoscientists, and neurologists. In many cases it is the independent researchers that discover the treatments and the pharma companies pick up on this and then work on their treatments. And then even when a medication is released it undergoes further research by these same independent researchers to test that it does what it does, as well as other possible uses.

reply to post by Xcalibur254

In order to be diagnosed with depression you have to be suffering from it for at least 6 months straight... With actual depressive disorder, the feelings continue unabated for long periods of time, and during those period the people suffering are not usually able to function in any way.

Not totaly true
from the DSM

Major Depressive Disorder, Single Episode 296.2x (F32.x)

Presence of a single Major Depressive Episode.
The Major Depressive Episode is not better accounted for by Schizoaffective Disorder and is not superimposed on Schizophrenia, Schizophreniform Disorder, Delusional Disorder, or Psychotic Disorder Not Otherwise Specified.
There has never been a Manic Episode, a Mixed Episode, or a Hypomanic Episode. Note: This exclusion does not apply if all of the manic-like, mixed-like, or hypomanic-like episodes are substance or treatment induced or are due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition.

Major Depressive Disorder, Recurrent 296.3x (F33.x)

Presence of a two or more Major Depressive Episodes.
The Major Depressive Episodes are not better accounted for by Schizoaffective Disorder and is not superimposed on Schizophrenia, Schizophreniform Disorder, Delusional Disorder, or Psychotic Disorder Not Otherwise Specified.
There has never been a Manic Episode, a Mixed Episode, or a Hypomanic Episode. Note: This exclusion does not apply if all of the manic-like, mixed-like, or hypomanic-like episodes are substance or treatment induced or are due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition.

there is a "Dysthymic Disorder" that takes time into account.

For example in OCD the normal communication between the orbitofrontal cortex, the caudate nucleus, and the thalamus, fires continuously. Since these structures have some control over emotions and motivated behavior. So, the person experiences feelings of dread and in response they perform a behavior of some form. This faulty wiring can be detected and after therapy this connection works as it normally should.

But those are theories and they have not agreed on the cause of the problem.www.bbc.co.uk...

Also, to suggest that all research on treatment of mental disorders is done by pharmaceutical companies ignores mountains of literature discussing studies by clinical psychologist, cognitive neruoscientists, and neurologists. In many cases it is the independent researchers that discover the treatments and the pharma companies pick up on this and then work on their treatments. And then even when a medication is released it undergoes further research by these same independent researchers to test that it does what it does, as well as other possible uses.

Im not saying that "all research on treatment of mental disorders is done by pharmaceutical companies " I was saying that the drugs are tested by the pharmaceutical companies. The pharmaceutical companies pay doctors off to give them a good word
www.jsonline.com...
mamedicallaw.com...
www.miamiherald.com...

Emotion puts emphasis on the intention and makes the intention manifest. It's the Law of intention, one of the laws of the Universe. Crystals, modulate, transmit and receive energy, they are not fallacy to the adept. You obviosly think they are a fallacy, so to you they are. It's all a matter of perspective. I humbly suggest that you open yourself to new perspevtives. Think outside your box. It will liberate you from stuffy black and white paradigms. All matter contains the Divine. All is the Divine. So you can mentally muscle yourself out of illness via the law of Intention. Some need help and need meds, some do not.

left brain vs right brain
there is a song about it
by Trace Adkins i think

Originally posted by QueenBob
perhaps a recording or some transcripts would shed some light for us
all due respect

Good idea. My phone does record up to an hour (ample time). I will see if I can ignore the fact that it is recording and just act "natural" (for me).

I appreciate the kind remarks from most of you. To address zaiger, I do not troll. I have never trolled. I do not seek attention; I seek help or at least enlightenment regarding the things that have been happening to me. Yes I know, I should see a doctor, and I am going to. I cannot do that right away, and it just helps to get these things down on "paper" if you know what I mean. I just had to tell someone. I can't tell my family. Not yet. It's too hard to tell them. My father and my wife are the only ones who even know about the dysthymia. I wrote an email to my dad today explaining everything I have explained here. I promptly deleted it after the "Love, (Name)". You can see it is going to be hard to tell them. That's why I am telling you all. I had to talk to someone, and the anonymity of the internet is my only option right now.

I do not seek sympathy, but I do seek empathy. There is a big difference. Empathy is something I consider to be extremely important to the human race for continued survival. Without it, we would not survive. That said, I thank all of you for your empathic responses. Your legitimate sincerity. Thank you.

Now, I hope to overcome the dysthymia (it is untreated right now, which may be the cause of my further troubles) in the future through therapy. I do not wish to be prescribed any drugs if I can avoid it. I have seen a therapist in the past and it helped me a lot. As you can see, I like talking about the things on my mind. It helps to just talk about things.

reply to post by zaiger


Since you have already posted the criteria for Major Depressive Disorder it saves me some time going over that. If you notice the key part of the disorder is that you have had at least one depressive episode. Yet, you conveniently left off the criteria for depressive episode. Here they are:

A. Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either
(1) depressed mood or
(2) loss of interest or pleasure.
Note: Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations.
(1) depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.
(2) markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others)
(3) significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make expected weight gains.
(4) Insomnia or Hypersomnia nearly every day
(5) psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)
(6) fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day
(7) feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick) (8) diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)
(9) recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide

B. The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode (see p. 335).

C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism).

And the final one addresses specifically some of the other points you were making about a death in the family:

E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation.

I will respond to the rest of your post after I finish some work I have to do in order to get ready for a psych conference on Friday.

reply to post by boondock-saint


There truly is no "left or right brain." This is a concept made up by pop psychologists to sell books. While it is true there are different centers on the left and right side of the brain, for most behaviors and thoughts the majority of the brain lights up.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


I did not leave those out those are from a different source, but they still work.

E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation.

2 months is not

In order to be diagnosed with depression you have to be suffering from it for at least 6 months straight

So if a mother loses her child and is not over it within two months she is mentally ill and suffering from depression?

reply to post by OrphenFire


For something like dysthymia you're definitely better off going to a clinical psychologist. As it stands right now most anti-depressants are for major depressive disorder, and aren't really effective for dysthymia.

I don't get it.

Doesn't everyone argue and discuss with themselves?

Me 1: Why are you bothering to respond to this thread?
Me 2: Because I think I could add clarity
Me 1: But what happens if you don't add any clarity, and just muddle things?
Me 2: Perhaps I should read the thread in its entirety.
Me 1: That would make sense. Let's do that.

(10 minutes later, having read the entire thread.)

Me 1: Okay. Having read the thread, what do you think?
Me 2: I think I should respond. I still think I have something to contribute.
Me 1: But you didn't read the thread that carefully.
Me 2: I read it enough.
Me 1: What if you cause damage rather than adding clarity?
Me 2: Yeah. Maybe I should desist. I have other things to do.
Me 1: Are you giving up too easily?
Me 2: Good point. I've already invested time. I might as well respond.
Me 1: But it might be a waste of time, as you say.
Me 2: True. But a small waste only, of no real consequence.

And so -- I responded, as you see here.

So is this type of internal dialog normal? I have always felt it was just part of my life, like daydreaming, humming to myself, discussing something over with a friend.

I left out a big chunk of that internal dialog above. I bet I thought this over no less than two solid minutes before hitting the edit button and typing the above.

Once in a while, I will tell myself a joke that actually laugh over some idea that I thought of. It doesn't happen that often. That DOES actually sounds kind of insane, now that I think about it.

Am I crazy also? I don't know. I would like an answer actually. Maybe I should be worried about myself.

reply to post by Axial Leader


You are doubtfully insane :p. The problem I have is that I am compelled to speak aloud, with differing vocal and tonal patterns. These variations of vocal and tonal patterns also manifest different schools of thought, as I mentioned.

My personal conclusion as of right now is that I am progressing beyond dysthymia. Into what, I don't know yet. My condition has gone untreated for many, many years. I have tried to ignore it, telling myself it is only in my head and not real. I am afraid I may have been wrong about that. With all that said, I am going to pursue psychological therapy in the near future.

The reason I believe I am progressing beyond dysthymia is that my mind has reached a "tipping" point and it cannot ignore the condition any longer. I believe I could be in trouble if I continue to ignore the original problem: the dysthymia.

sometimes i feel the need to talk to myself, i have ALWAYS done it as long as i can remember, i dont argue with myself or anything along those lines, but sometimes i feel the need to spell my ideas and thoughts out in front of me, I do this alone and to be #ing honest (Ive felt like most would call me mad), it helps me a lot, it helps me make the right choices etc.

Difference is I am me and it's me speaking my thoughts aloud so that I can almost debate with those ideas i just heard from myself, because having just heard them it makes it easier, rather hard to explain but ive always done it, so does my mother, and i don't feel crazy.

I feel your situation is different, it's not a hostile side of you it seem's, only one that want's to be part of you, perhaps seek some help from some of the people described, perhaps it will go away, perhaps you almost enjoy doing it. I am not sure, but i thought you'd like to hear my story.

reply to post by OrphenFire


Well, here is one possibility to consider:

Ever hear of "spirit attachment", or "entity attachment", or "spirit releasement therapy"?

If not, do some online research and buy some books on it. It's fascinating, and you may have this happening.

Some books on the subject are:
1. Remote Depossession, by Irene Hickman, D.O.
2. Spirit Releasement Therapy by William J Baldwin, PhD
3. Remarkable Healings; A psychiatrist discovers unsuspected roots of mental and physical illness, by Shakuntala Modi, MD
4. The Unquiet Dead by Edith Fiore

-Here is a website that has some FAQs on spirit attachment and spirit releasement therapy:

home.mindspring.com...

There are many practitioners out there who are doing spirit releasement therapy.


Another great book to read is called: Spiritual Emergency, by psychiatrist Stanislof Grof, MD. This book discusses other spiritual possibilities besides mental illness.

Hope that helps! Best of luck.




[edit on 14-4-2010 by nikiano]

I used to do this a lot when I was younger, I would slightly mumble it out loud as well, not in a maddening way, just I would be questioning and answering things as you say in a similar way to a script. Still to this day i see something on T.v i just discuss it but in my mind, no longer out loud, I am not necessarily me or anyone else, its hard to explain but i know what you mean. Do i think its a mental disorder ? Well ... i have grown up and because I had a tage of depression and depersonalisation disorder/ disassociation I can tell you that If having a mental conversation is considered mad then I should have been locked away for the depersonalisation i felt. THAT was a true mental illness, if it is an illness to explore conversation and yet to know that you are doing it then so be it. I never saw it as much of a problem, in fact i sometimes enjoy it. It makes writing a lot easier.

As i say, it died down a bit with age, but I wouldn't worry about it if i were you. There are much worse things to burden yourself with, and if its not harming you then don't start worrying about having a mental illness.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by eyesdown]

You obviously know you should get yourself checked out by a professional. You do not necessarily need $100 or $200 to talk to a therapist for one hour. Many therapists have sliding scales. They will see you for much less than $100 per session. If you somehow manage to put together $40, you can have a session with a good therapist.

reply to post by zaiger


It's not a different source, both are from the DSM IV. However, when you posted your criteria for Major Depressive Disorder you did not define what a Depressive Episode was, which is the first criteria for Major Depressive Disorder. As for the 6 months, I slipped up. That's the time required before one can be diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, which considering the comorbidity rates between anxiety disorders and depression it is an understandable mistake.

And yes if the woman is unable to go to work, let alone get out of bed for more two months she is likely suffering from a depressive episode. While grief is a terrible thing and can cripple anyone, the worst of it will abate within a few weeks. While the grief remains most people are able to return to a semi-normal routine after that time. However, if that person is still unable to function after two months and is having thoughts of worthlessness and suicidal ideation, she is clearly suffering from something more than average grief.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
There truly is no "left or right brain." This is a concept made up by pop psychologists to sell books. While it is true there are different centers on the left and right side of the brain, for most behaviors and thoughts the majority of the brain lights up.

well somebody needs to tell the FBI then
cuz they use the left/right brain theory
in their interview and interrogation
techniques.

reply to post by boondock-saint


The FBI's criminal profiling methods were not derived from any scientific models. Instead they were created by a group of agents who interviewed a bunch of violent rapists and from what they learned they came up with a set of characteristics that were similar between different types of offenders. This was then later extended to other kinds of violent criminals. A lot of studies done on their method have concluded that it is not accurate.

reply to post by OrphenFire

Hello,
Wow! I was diagnosed with the same thing back in '96. I was told that I had a fatalist attitude/outlook. They wanted me to take drugs, with therapy. I was in re-hab and so declined the drug treatments.

I don't know exactly how I've completely overcome it, or if. But, I definitely am not who I used to be. Yet, the inner child prevailed, and still lives in my heart. I'm definitely scared of dying now, being married to the girl of my dreams and all. I'm still non-compliant, and incorrigible, two traits I'm kinda OK with, I suppose.

One thing that sunk-in with me was the fact I finally found-out why I was so different... I learned to just think this; "I have dysthymia, but it don't have me." And honestly, I avoid addictions, because I have the addictive traits. I have a physical attribute I can change, but decide against. Because it's only cosmetic really.

The only way to beat this my friend, is the actual desire to beat it. The problem with it is desire in it's self. When I was no longer willing to not allow myself to reach my full potential, that's when I started to come out of it. I have some ways to go until I get where I intend to go...Because I intend to go places this "lack of desire" took from me.

That person you talk with is your inner child. Mine used to tell me that If I was his parent, I'd be doing a lousy job raising him. You'll be fine.