It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by hotbakedtater
It isnt forced if he made the choice to have sex in the first place.
By having sex a man is by default consenting to whatever outcome happens, because when man and woman have sex, one of two outcomes always happen-pregnancy or not.
If abortion is legal, than females should let the father have equal rights too.
Hypocrites.....
Originally posted by riley
Starred!
Some men posting obviously want final say not equal say. In essence they want the right to blackmail pregnant women with poverty if they do not have abortions. How classy.
edit. If men want the freedom of enjoying sex as a grown men they should man up if that sex results in pregnancy.. or stop winging like little boy and give up that enjoyable freedom of having sex. Women are not theme park rides where you can have fun then just walk away.. and if you choose to use them as such you deserve whatever consequences you get.
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Originally posted by riley
Starred!
Some men posting obviously want final say not equal say. In essence they want the right to blackmail pregnant women with poverty if they do not have abortions. How classy.
You don't want equal rights. You want full rights for women, no rights for men on this issue.
At least be honest. In your world view, because the women is the one having the child, men's input means nothing and unless he meets the demands of the woman, he is blackmailing her.
If women want the freedom of enjoying sex as grown women they should woman up if that sex results in pregnancy.. or stop winging like little girl and give up that enjoyable freedom of having sex. Men are not theme park rides where you can have fun then just walk away..and if you choose to use them as such you deserve whatever consequences you get.
Wow, riley, it sure has a different ring to it when you reverse the genders, doesn't it?
Men are not theme park rides where you can have fun then just walk away..and if you choose to use them as such you deserve whatever consequences you get.
Originally posted by riley
Full rights as in not having men treat women as incubators that can be switched on or off at his convenience depending on if he's ready to be a daddy?
Yeah okay.. now you be honest. You want men to be able to over-rule a woman's decision on if she will keep a baby or abort it. In other words a return to the "good old days" where a woman's fate depended on what a man chose for her. You basically want women to "obey" men again. Yep that sounds like equal rights.
Oh how clever you reversed it! Problem is you reversed this part:
[...]
Women cannot just walk away and are the ones that carry that pregnancy and give birth. They have no choice but to deal with the consequences though cowardly men can just leave town if she doesn't abort it on his say so. If she wants to keep a baby she loves asking her to kill it to be "fair" on him is the lowest kind of blackmail.
To say it's morally okay to threaten her with poverty is disgusting. If he wants full control over the fate over the pregnancies his sperm creates he should be more careful where he releases them. A man expecting a woman to kill her own baby because he only wanted the "fun" part of sex obviously does not give a crap about anyones rights but his own and so deserves none.
Originally posted by hadriana
Women should have the right to choice. It is their bodies.
Men should EXERCISE their right to choice and always be picky about who they sleep with.
It seems pretty simple to me. I really don't understand what the problem is.
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
So then I take it once a woman consents to having sex, she cannot back away from that decision? She knows the outcome is either going to be sex or no sex, so she should consider her decision before she consents to sex in the first place. There go about 50% of rape cases right there.
All responsibilities lie with the man when the consequences are bad, all responsibilities lie with the woman when the consequences are good. Can all of you "strong women" really not see the double standards?
[edit on 16/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]
So once again we have abdication of sexual responsibility for men, another let's blame the female?
Originally posted by Benji1999
but I find it strange that a man carries a financial burden to support a child that he has had no decision in whether they are born or not, and a child that only came into being by the woman's choice to instigate the sexual union with the man.
[edit on 16-4-2010 by Benji1999]
Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
The frightening thing is that forcibly removing a fetus is even an option.
Its a sad thing that we humans have not set aside our infanticidal tendencies and learned to be responsible about our sexual urges. Think about it. If men showed restraint and stopped raping people and both men and women showed restraint and had only safe sex unless trying to have a baby then there would no need for abortion because there would be no unwanted pregnancy. But no, we're so intent on staying an immature species that we've invented a medical way to reach inside a woman and destroy her child before it has a chance to even be a child... Rather than take one iota of responsibility for ourselves and stop the madness we've found it easier to make mass infanticide legal...
Just reaffirms that we are a barbaric bunch of apes abusing our big brains.
Originally posted by hotbakedtater
So once again we have abdication of sexual responsibility for men, another let's blame the female?
The baby came into being because a man decided he wanted to play the game of chance and sleep with a lady he wants to have babies with. The man is the only one who can control where his sperm end up. The woman has zero control over that.
Originally posted by Benji1999
A man only knows those two things because those laws are in place in a Western society.
The fact that that is how the law stands, does not necessarily make it right. The man should not be legally obliged to support the child when he has no say in it !
He is certainly morally obliged, but I can't see why he should be legally obliged to.
I totally agree with child support if the father leaves the mother after the child is born, or he leaves her following a planned pregnancy, but he shouldn't have to pay just because the female shirks the responsibilty that comes with her gender !
It's her choice, and her responsibility, because she is entirely in control of whether the sexual union takes place.
Originally posted by intrepid
Why concern yourselves over an issue that, hopefully, you aren't going through or will have to? Why proselytize on an issue that doesn't concern you?
Originally posted by Benji1999
The problem I have is not with women exercising their right to choice, but with women shifting the responsibility of their pregnancy on many occasions to men, when it is the woman that initiates sexual intercourse in humans by giving consent.
Biologically, when a woman agrees to have sex with a man, she is saying ''you have my permission to impregnate me'', so it is unreasonable to not expect the man to follow up with his biological urges after being given the ''green light'' by the woman.
[edit on 16-4-2010 by Benji1999]
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by intrepid
Why concern yourselves over an issue that, hopefully, you aren't going through or will have to? Why proselytize on an issue that doesn't concern you?
Good point. I wish I'd seen this post before my last response. At my age, I'm certainly not ever going to have to make this choice. And I'm not going to convince anyone who thinks differently.
So, I've said my part. Thanks.
Originally posted by maria_stardust
Originally posted by leo123
If it takes two people to create a pregnancy, that has consequences upon both of them, logic dictates that both should have a say on how it unfolds.
On the contrary, there are different consequences for the man then there are for the woman. Different consequence dictate different choices.
However, if women want ALL the say on how a pregnancy unfolds, which I don't have a problem with, they have to take ALL the responsibilities associated with THEIR actions including the issue that she shouldn't be able to impose upon the man financially if that is not his wish.
You can't have it both ways.
Alas, it is men that cannot have it both ways, much to their apparent dismay. If a man chooses to engage in sex, he knows full well that there is a risk of an unplanned pregnancy. Sex equates risk of pregnancy.
What you're implying is that a man should be able to engage in sex risk-free. There is no such thing as risk-free sex. It doesn't exist.
Originally posted by riley
reply to post by jeanvaljean
Starred!
Some men posting obviously want final say not equal say. In essence they want the right to blackmail pregnant women with poverty if they do not have abortions. How classy.
edit. If men want the freedom of enjoying sex as a grown men they should man up if that sex results in pregnancy.. or stop winging like little boy and give up that enjoyable freedom of having sex. Women are not theme park rides where you can have fun then just walk away.. and if you choose to use them as such you deserve whatever consequences you get.
[edit on 16-4-2010 by riley]