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How to stop a crazy militant from doing stupid things

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posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 09:51 AM
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Heya ATSers

As we roll around to the 19th, I was considering the people around Tim McVeigh that seen troubling signs. The aftermath was the militia groups that supported him ended up distancing themselves from his actions and seemed somewhat surprised, but not straight across the board. (Some knew he was off the chain)

Now we are in yet another time of our history where there is a D in the office, the gun rights are screaming that they are coming to take your guns away and the red army is waiting in the wings...for the most part, this will be seen as the satire it is by the level headed, but as we all know, not everyone in America is level headed.

So...what do you do. If you are part of a milita and notice there is one more troubled than the rest and is about to do something really disasterous, how would you help solve the problem...pull him aside and talk him down? Explain that such actions will only embolden the opposition, Call a fed? or simply ignore it and hope disaster doesn't happen.

There might also be some here on ATS that are starting to become unglued and so some pearls of wisdom may be appropriate.



Want to also state: I am pro-gun rights...I believe that the state should issue everyone a shotgun and handgun upon completing a gun safety course..I personally do not own a gun, nor plan on it...(more of a sword lover), but I believe that safe gun ownership by the masses would be a crime deterrent.

I also find the milita movement to be a "fun weekend sport" for people to play war in...no, I dont see it as a serious movement (sorry, just my opinion), but its their right to get together, talk about scenes of Red Dawn, and shoot at targets hung on a tree. (I prefer laser tag)




posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:34 AM
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I guess we could simply call the feds...or accept that a fed will be in every militia faction out there to monitor the activities. How many militia groups are out there to begin with? under 200...sounds fairly easy to infiltrate such groups and keep tabs on them.

-kicks the can-



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:41 AM
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I don't think there is a way to logically talk anyone out of something when they live in their own reality.

There are only 2 ways...and thankfully I think these 2 ways take care of most of the problems.

1. Families start to see someone act crazy and turn them in.

2. I am pretty sure the feds keep track of these people fairly well (and for good reason)...and they are just waiting for them to have a credible threat to arrest them. I can think of at least 5 people on ATS that I would be surprised if they aren't being watched...everytime I see them post I am a little surprised they haven't been arrested yet.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


What exactly do you classify as "stupid things"? What you might call stupid, another might call heroic or bold or even necessary.

I'm not going to sit here and say that blowing up a bunch of innocent people is any of the above, but there was clearly a point behind it. There was a reason behind the Oklahoma City bombing other than the cut and dry belief that "Timothy McVeigh was a nutjob". No, he didn't go about things in the way they should have been gone but today the point needs to be made more than ever.

The militia exist to protect the Constitution, and when the day arrives where the government completely decides to scrap that document it will be the "people playing war" who fight to preserve it.

Though I agree that people should do anything rash and "stupid", let it not be a deterrent from useful, and perhaps forceful action if need be - as long as innocent people are not hurt by such actions. However, I cannot agree with your mockery of militiamen because to me, it is a mockery of the second amendment, the knowledge of the Founding Fathers, and the Constitution itself.



With that said, indeed... don't do anything "stupid" in the matches to come. Instead, think it through and to the "smart" thing.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 




2. I am pretty sure the feds keep track of these people fairly well (and for good reason)...and they are just waiting for them to have a credible threat to arrest them. I can think of at least 5 people on ATS that I would be surprised if they aren't being watched...everytime I see them post I am a little surprised they haven't been arrested yet.


I'm pretty sure I'm one of these 5 people, but the reason we haven't been arrested yet is that under the Constitution there is no such thing as "pre-crime". The simple fact is that myself, or perhaps these people you speak of if I am NOT one of them, haven't done anything wrong. You are just diffused with this logic that because we speak out of turn with YOUR thinking we should be arrested for it.

Forget the facts that our words usually mimic that of the Founding Fathers and we usually provide the quotes to back it up. Of course the excuse will be thrown that the Founding Fathers were kooks, wackjobs, terrorists, and that events that happened over 200 years ago don't matter anymore. To each his own I suppose but as for myself, I am going to continue basing my life on the events and actions that happened over 200 years ago.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by gwydionblack]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by gwydionblack
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


What exactly do you classify as "stupid things"? What you might call stupid, another might call heroic or bold or even necessary.

I'm not going to sit here and say that blowing up a bunch of innocent people is any of the above, but there was clearly a point behind it.


Stupid thing...

NO different than the fools blowing people in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc... "heros",
bold and necessary... Allah Akbar yalls



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by gwydionblack
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


What exactly do you classify as "stupid things"? What you might call stupid, another might call heroic or bold or even necessary.



Hmm...how about blowing up buildings full of civilians to begin with

or trying to kill a elected official...etc...you know...brain dead dysfunctional things that disrespects the republic and destroys any civil discourse between constitutionalists and the rest of the population.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by gwydionblack
I cannot agree with your mockery of militiamen because to me, it is a mockery of the second amendment, the knowledge of the Founding Fathers, and the Constitution itself.


Thats just it...I am not mocking the militamen or their function. My personal feelings aside, I see them as having every right to be who they are. I do mock the likes of Tim McVeigh...I see him not as an example of the milita but rather of a disturbed and insane loon that used the guise of the milita to express his mental illness. I think any proud patriot would also condemn such a person...America is about having civil discourse, not about blowing stuff up when your in disagreement...that is a tactic that goes against everything the holy founding fathers established and is clearly the definition of the domestic enemy.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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And why not mock the ideas that debase our humanity?
Shake up that frame of reference, "smile it confuses people" (signals).
It's when we let the battles begin that the potential for losing them occurs.
For me, guns & swords all get left on the shelf until I've exhausted all my options, which thankfully includes the ability to run my mouth very fast from trouble! Thanks for the post!

gj



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 




disrespects the republic and destroys any civil discourse between constitutionalists and the rest of the population.


Yes, disrespecting the dead is not a thing to do so I'll go with you there. Unless of course you are referring to some Republic that is still alive and well, and if that is the case, please point the way to this pipe dream.

However, I did agree with you on the blowing buildings up with innocents inside - yeah, it is stupid. However, even some milder actions which could be determined Constitutional might take the form of "stupid" for a number of people.



Thats just it...I am not mocking the militamen or their function.


Well you SAID:



I also find the milita movement to be a "fun weekend sport" for people to play war in...no, I dont see it as a serious movement (sorry, just my opinion), but its their right to get together, talk about scenes of Red Dawn, and shoot at targets hung on a tree.


If you don't see it as serious, then you must see it as either satirical or some kind of joke. Your ignorance and disrespect towards them is obvious by your "Red Dawn" comment.




I think any proud patriot would also condemn such a person...America is about having civil discourse, not about blowing stuff up when your in disagreement...that is a tactic that goes against everything the holy founding fathers established and is clearly the definition of the domestic enemy.


I condemn McVeigh, don't get me wrong, that is a non-issue entirely. However, civil discourse is pretty useless if the governing body won't listen to the voices of the people who are in disagreement.

Thus is the same that happen in the 1770's. Years of "civil discourse" went completely and entirely unanswered and ignored and thus the Founding Fathers saw the necessity to use force to make their voices be heard. Things are no different today. Violence, albeit unsavory and crude in nature, will always prove to, in the very least, open the ears of government to the people. It goes directly in line with the logic of the Founding Fathers and we as a country are following the same path as back then.





The protests coming upon the 19th aren't just first time gigs. They are the culmination of years of protests and dissent by disgruntled American people, those who see the problems within this country. They have been ignored already. They will more than likely continue to be ignored. That is why come the 19th I would not be surprised if acts of violence emerge at the forefront of the protests. The only problem is that people have been so brainwashed and predisposed with violence through the use of terrorism and innocent slaying, that they usually resort to such tactics to prove a point. In the end it proves nothing and furthers the agenda of the government even further in their regulations.

If violence is to be used, which undoubtedly it will in the coming years, it put be done strategically, carefully, with a purpose, and with a minimizing to the amount of casualties that it causes. Violence, contrary to popular belief can solve a lot of problems, however - SENSELESS violence will only create more.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


As far as me mocking the milita groups, here is how I view it.
I see typically these groups are made up of weekend warriors whom would more often than not, freeze in the face of real danger. Alot of these armchair generals talk a good game, but when faced with any real issue, they are quick to fall apart,

If any red dawn type senario did happen, the true militia would be formed up of established inner city gangs, and everyday people whom had something to lose and worth fighting for. Not to say that every militiaman is a spineless wimp overcompensating for their inner fears...

I have some personal stories that would be good for a laugh (I live in the deep south, every 3rd person here is some gun toting redneck...and they dont cope well in pressure situations, like a sudden tornado sweeping through the neighborhood...that all for one philosophy leaves real quick when your own mortality starts creeping in) But, no need to start spouting stories like that.

I am simply worried that the fun weekend warriors could spout off yet another Tim incident...he thought his moves were also highly calculated and would be the starting of a resistance that would remove those evil nazi democrats from office and bring back the joys of a pure republican base...yay politics.



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