Originally posted by Annee


Both are fully responsible for the ACT of creating a living physical being. Therefore - both are equally responsible for the financial aspect of that physical beings needs.

Unfortunately your right but if your going to penalize a man financially because the woman decides to keep said child then he should have the right to demand that said child be carried to term and given custody of if he so chose.

The relationship between the man and woman - will determine if both have a say so in keeping or aborting. There have been cases where the parents agreed to full term and the father took full custody and responsibility.

However this is not the norm.

The high percentage of men who abandon women who become pregnant is ridiculous. As a woman - I really have no sympathy for man complaining about abortion. NONE ZERO.

Unfortunately this is all too often the case and is a large part of the problem in our society.

And I have no sympathy for woman who uses poor judgment and gets pregnant, really in this day and age if your too stupid to use birth control your to stupid to be having sex to begin with. I am all prochoice as long as your making that choice before you decide to be a whore and spread your legs.

Originally posted by Jovi1

Originally posted by Annee


Both are fully responsible for the ACT of creating a living physical being. Therefore - both are equally responsible for the financial aspect of that physical beings needs.

Unfortunately your right but if your going to penalize a man financially because the woman decides to keep said child then he should have the right to demand that said child be carried to term and given custody of if he so chose.

The relationship between the man and woman - will determine if both have a say so in keeping or aborting. There have been cases where the parents agreed to full term and the father took full custody and responsibility.

However this is not the norm.

The high percentage of men who abandon women who become pregnant is ridiculous. As a woman - I really have no sympathy for man complaining about abortion. NONE ZERO.

Unfortunately this is all too often the case and is a large part of the problem in our society.

And I have no sympathy for woman who uses poor judgment and gets pregnant, really in this day and age if your too stupid to use birth control your to stupid to be having sex to begin with. I am all prochoice as long as your making that choice before you decide to be a whore and spread your legs.

DEMAND?!?!?

When DNA Paternity testing becomes mandatory by law - - then talk to me.

If you are a real man - - then start legislation on mandatory DNA Paternity testing.

Poor judgment?? Dude - it takes two. WOW! Oh How Surprising - - once again it is the woman's fault and responsibility.

In this day and age - - nothing except complete abstinence is foolproof.

Please read before you post.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
what i hate about all of this is that the guy doesn't get any say, because the woman will say "its my body, i can do whatever i want with it" but if the guy has money, after the baby is born, hes gonna foot some of the bill, so how is that fair? the guy being forced to pay for a child when he didn't have a say in keeping him/her or not. sure, its in the girls body, but it isn't her body, and it takes two.

Both are fully responsible for the ACT of creating a living physical being. Therefore - both are equally responsible for the financial aspect of that physical beings needs.

The relationship between the man and woman - will determine if both have a say so in keeping or aborting. There have been cases where the parents agreed to full term and the father took full custody and responsibility.

The high percentage of men who abandon women who become pregnant is ridiculous. As a woman - I really have no sympathy for man complaining about abortion. NONE ZERO.

ya, both are responsible for the act, so why do women have the final say in whether the baby is killed or not? don't get me wrong, i believe 100% that if its yours, you need to help support it, but it is illogical and wrong to deny males LEGAL rights to an unborn baby.



"2. Each person is entitled to their own belief.

3. Forcing your belief on another is not OK."

there are absolutes in life, which means that no matter your take on the issue, there is a right and wrong. you didn't tell me if its ok for me to key your car, or a man to rape women because he "believes" its ok. most murderers have no qualms against killing, so going by your world view, we aren't allowed to tell them they can't murder, and we aren't allowed to punish them. or rapists.

was it ok for us to intervene in nazi germany where jews and many others were murdered? the nazi's believed that they should be exterminated, who are we to tell them any different.

see? such rhetoric falls apart when you try to put it into play. which again suggestes you addopted the beliefs you have now so they would allow you the ability to abort a child without it contradicting your beliefs. its what humans do, we are good at lieing to ourselves.

Originally posted by Annee
My first pregnancy ended in a fourth month miscarriage. I had 2 pregnancies (2 daughters) following that. Then I had an abortion.


My opinion is not just lip service.

It is no one's business but the person making the decision - PERIOD!

I beg to differ... It is the business of the child you've just murdered - it's a shame they didn't get to voice their opinion on the matter... Oh yeah, and it's God's business as well. But don't worry, you'll have the opportunity to explain it to Him later.

Originally posted by kozmo

Originally posted by Annee
My first pregnancy ended in a fourth month miscarriage. I had 2 pregnancies (2 daughters) following that. Then I had an abortion.


My opinion is not just lip service.

It is no one's business but the person making the decision - PERIOD!

I beg to differ... It is the business of the child you've just murdered - it's a shame they didn't get to voice their opinion on the matter... Oh yeah, and it's God's business as well. But don't worry, you'll have the opportunity to explain it to Him later.

That is your personal belief.

Your God?

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

there are absolutes in life, which means that no matter your take on the issue, there is a right and wrong. you didn't tell me if its ok for me to key your car, or a man to rape women because he "believes" its ok. most murderers have no qualms against killing, so going by your world view, we aren't allowed to tell them they can't murder, and we aren't allowed to punish them. or rapists.

AGAIN - - because you don't seem to be getting it.

VIABLE PHYSICAL BEING

You are talking about actions of viable physical beings.

I stated (my belief) - - viable physical being - - begins at physical birth. Not before.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

yes, demand. you said yourself "it takes two", why then do you deny the man's right to his child?

FIRST - - you wanted to deny monetary compensation for a viable human being following birth. Your thoughts obviously are not with the welfare of the child. Therefore - I would flat out deny you the child.

SECOND - - you blamed the woman.

With this sexist antiquated mindset - - YOU want ME to take you seriously on the rights of the sperm donor?

OH WOW SHOCKING - - I give rights to the woman. And OF COURSE - - I'm sure she must be one of those bitchy feminists.

As I said - - which you so casually label as "its not the norm" - - there have been relationships where the woman carried the child and the father took full responsibility after its birth.

Again - if men like you are truly 100% serious - then I want to see you legislate mandatory DNA paternity and mandatory child support for every single pregnancy/child.

Until then - - you have nothing but quick sand to stand on.

Originally posted by Annee
That is your personal belief.

Your God?

Um, not really... That would be the belief of CHRISTIANITY - also known as about 2.1 BILLION people! By the way, that's about 1/3 of the world's total population.

But I wouldn't expect someone who so eagerly defends the murder of unborn babies to understand that. Again, no need to worry... God will explain it all to you in due time. If I were you, I'd be preparing my speech.

Originally posted by kozmo

Originally posted by Annee
That is your personal belief.

Your God?

Um, not really... That would be the belief of CHRISTIANITY - also known as about 2.1 BILLION people! By the way, that's about 1/3 of the world's total population.

But I wouldn't expect someone who so eagerly defends the murder of unborn babies to understand that. Again, no need to worry... God will explain it all to you in due time. If I were you, I'd be preparing my speech.

Oh Brother!

Christianity is your chosen belief - - - and shocking as it may seem - - is NOT the End All of all End Alls.

Personally - I find it interesting - - that on page one I flat out state "I had an abortion".

Of course - I've had God thrown at me - - but has anyone asked me a question?

Its really interesting because this is not the first time I've been open about it.

Its rare that anyone asks me a question.

Originally posted by kozmo
I beg to differ... It is the business of the child you've just murdered - it's a shame they didn't get to voice their opinion on the matter... Oh yeah, and it's God's business as well. But don't worry, you'll have the opportunity to explain it to Him later.

Gods killed more babies then anything ever. Maybe you shouldnt be on his side then.

Abortion is a decision that someone gets to make personally whether it is right for them or not. This is one of the few topics that has more gray area then blak and white. The law is there for a reason and that reason sticks up for the one teenage girl who gets raped. You have people who abuse the systems in every walk of life, this law is for the victims at heart and for womens rights in whole and I will forever support them.

If you use this as a form of birth control then your a horrible person to me and Im not gonna associate myself with you at all. In my eyes your disgusting. Other then that I'll stand up for your right to have an abortion.

As I said my mom works at planned parenthood, I got called a baby killer by a women I worked for awhile back. The irony of this situation is her daughter was raped and they chose to take a morning after pill. The person she was calling a baby killer is the same person who stood up for her daughters right to take a morning after pill. If she had had her way, that option wouldn't have been available.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

yes, demand. you said yourself "it takes two", why then do you deny the man's right to his child?

FIRST - - you wanted to deny monetary compensation for a viable human being following birth. Your thoughts obviously are not with the welfare of the child. Therefore - I would flat out deny you the child.

SECOND - - you blamed the woman.

With this sexist antiquated mindset - - YOU want ME to take you seriously on the rights of the sperm donor?

OH WOW SHOCKING - - I give rights to the woman. And OF COURSE - - I'm sure she must be one of those bitchy feminists.

As I said - - which you so casually label as "its not the norm" - - there have been relationships where the woman carried the child and the father took full responsibility after its birth.

Again - if men like you are truly 100% serious - then I want to see you legislate mandatory DNA paternity and mandatory child support for every single pregnancy/child.

Until then - - you have nothing but quick sand to stand on.

wow. you obviously haven't been reading anything i've said. i've already stated that i think men should pay for their children. i was merely pointing out how hypocritical it is to demand them to pay, yet deny them the right to have any choice in whether to abort or keep the child.

"sperm donor" ya..i don't think im the sexist one here. let me say it again, i believe the sexes to be equal, and denying men rights to their child is sexist (unless the a court has found that he is an unfit father or detrimental influence).

"I stated (my belief) - - viable physical being - - begins at physical birth. Not before. "

yes, and i said that just because you believe something, it doesn't make it true. which you STILL have not tried to refute. so once more for the record, i'll have to try. if you don't try to argue the point, then you are blatantly cherry-picking.

do you think our stopping the holocaust was wrong? do you think a man can rape as many women as he wants and walk free simply because he believes it is ok? MORAL AND ETHICAL LAW IS NOT RELATIVE! all things being equal, what is wrong for one person is equally wrong for another person.

what makes more sense-

babies grow in the womb without a soul until they fall out of the woman's vagina and miraculously has a person inside the body now, OR,

is the soul there from conception until they die?

21 days after conception there is a heartbeat, in a closed circulatory system, with a blood type that is different from the mother's.

"Until then - - you have nothing but quick sand to stand on."

sooo... you're basically saying "until i get guaranteed money from the father, he has no say in if i have HIS child killed"


"Therefore - I would flat out deny you the child."

i actually said the opposite of what you claim i said, then you say you have the authority to to tell me whether or not i have any rights to the child?
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm...seems quite "crazy feminist" to me. i don't know why you hate men so much, maybe you were abused or raped and im sorry, but i want the best for children everywhere, and that means trying to keep them alive. but of course you don't believe that.