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A Question of Rights

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posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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I have to start by saying this..because in part this thread was inspired by something Semperfortis quoted in his "ASK A COP" thread..
and that was:
"YOUR RIGHTS END WHERE MINE BEGIN."
That single phrase really stuck with me and inspired a lot of thought.
What rights do we really have anymore?
It seems there is quite a conflict out there between we are having more taken away, and we are being granted more for the most ridiculous things.
For example we feel more like we are being monitored in many ways, yet we go and demand all these politically correct protections for our beliefs, sexual preferences...etc.
It's like we are all in a personal bubble, and woe be to anyone who bumps that bubble..or worse the guy running around with a sharp pin.
Do you feel you have more rights now or less?
I realize everyone's experience is different based on your geographic location, government, and life experience.
What I'm looking for is just perhaps a general point of view, from the members depending on what part of the world you live in.

HUMAN RIGHTS
“All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.”
en.wikipedia.org...

I believe we have moved farther and farther away from that….

These are the Universal Human rights as laid out by the United Nations.
www.un.org...

Any newspaper daily, or evening news has at least one story where one or more of those listed are broken…
Most commonly that I see.. are:

ARTICLE 2
• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, color, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.



ARTICLE 4
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.


ARTICLE 5
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.


ARTICLE 13
• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
• (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.




ARTICLE 18
• Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

ARTICLE 19.
• Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.


I could go on…but there are many, and it is all subjective to personal experience whether you have witnessed it or not.
But in my opinion, increasingly, our rights are slowly fading away into oblivion despite the clear cut rules as they are laid out here in black and white.
We are told that we have the power of government..We choose, we vote, they are just the gun that we shoot in whatever direction. They are the one voice for us all, seeking what is in our best interest. I don’t see it that way.
How many are really aware of what your rights as a person, or a citizen of your country really are?




posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied
I have to start by saying this..because in part this thread was inspired by something Semperfortis quoted in his "ASK A COP" thread.


I think we all have rights, everything in nature.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by axiomaticobserver
 


Everything in nature?
Could you elaborate on that please?



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 04:59 PM
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As a white woman, living in the Southwest US, there are no rights that I am aware of, that I have actually lost.

I do choose to be more careful about certain things. Like riding in an airplane. I won't do it because it has become such a hassle. Does it infringe on my rights? No. It's my choice. I am careful what I say on the phone and Internet. Again, my choice. I'm being cautious. And there is no right to talk on the phone or Internet without being observed.

Maybe I'm not sure what specifically you mean, but I'm not feeling or experiencing any issues with my rights. I still have and exercise them when I want.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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The only rights that Americans should be concerned about are the ones protected in the constitution. The declaration clearly states ones god given rights: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Yes, our rights are being slowly stripped from us, and that is why the people of this great nation are waking up and doing something about it. That is why the Tea Party movement has gained so much movement in the past year or so.

Soon people will not just ask for our rights back; They will take them.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Thanks BH- I appreciate your input.
Like I said, some will notice more than others.
My point was in reference to the Humans Rights as stated by the United Nations...
I notice that many of them are being ignored or broken by those who created them for the people, and those who are supposed to be enforcing them.
I don't want to provoke Semperfortis, but Gitmo does come to mind.
Travel restrictions, increased "security" measures that border more on infringement of ones personal rights over National security and safety.
Does that clarify it a bit?



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by ReVoLuTiOn76
 



Soon people will not just ask for our rights back; They will take them.


That has obviously two possible outcomes..success or failure.
We don't even know if enough people are really aware of what they should be fighting for, or against whom.
A mutiny, for lack of a better word..could backfire and create even tougher laws, with more rights taken away.
Martial law does not need a foreign terror threat to be implemented.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:16 PM
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Yes. That's why I spoke only for myself because I do believe that there ARE people whose rights have been trampled by the Patriot Act and since 9/11 in general. Gitmo is definitely a prime example, as well as the protest zones, etc. that been implemented. Also people in New Orleans after Katrina. That was dreadful.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Glad you pointed that out..
After Katrina ,was unbelievable.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
As a white woman, living in the Southwest US, there are no rights that I am aware of, that I have actually lost.


you no longer have a right to NOT have health care

you no longer have the right to grievances
from the SCOTUS in certain cases.

you no longer have a right to Habeus Corpus
if TPTB feel u r a threat to NS.

you no longer have a right to have a court ordered
warrant signed by a judge to invade ur home.

you no longer have a right to purchase a weapon
for self defense unless TPTB approve of it.

You no longer have the right of free speech without
being labeled a terrorist and put on some watch list.

the list goes on and on



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
you no longer have a right to NOT have health care


Sure I do. I don't have to buy health care as long as I pay a fee at the end of the year. (Besides, where is the right to not have health insurance listed again?)



you no longer have the right to grievances
from the SCOTUS in certain cases.


The SCOTUS has been throwing cases out ever since they have been in existence. They do have to read the case before throwing it out, so they are seeing our grievances.



you no longer have a right to Habeus Corpus
if TPTB feel u r a threat to NS.


Threats to national security have always been taken very seriously. But I have the right to Habeus Corpus.



you no longer have a right to have a court ordered
warrant signed by a judge to invade ur home.


I mentioned the Patriot Act. But it hasn't affected me personally. That's the question I was answering.



you no longer have a right to purchase a weapon
for self defense unless TPTB approve of it.


That is plainly not true.



You no longer have the right of free speech without
being labeled a terrorist and put on some watch list.


I still have the right of free speech. There has never been a right NOT to be observed, labeled or put on a list. If I'm wrong, please show me where this right is enumerated.



the list goes on and on


I'm sure it does. But if the rest is an inaccurate as it is so far, don't bother.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


By your logic, I no longer have the right to vote because I have to register for my vote to be counted.

I no longer have the right to get married, because I have to get a license to do so.

I no longer have the right to drive because I have to buy auto insurance and a license.

I no longer have the right to own a home because I have to purchase home owners insurance.

I no longer have the right to exercise my religion, because my children can't be led in prayer by their teachers.

I no longer have the right to say, "Merry Christmas" because people will complain or put me on a list.

I no longer have the right to free press because I can't print something libelous about someone.

I no longer have the right to peaceable assembly because I can't have a protest in the middle of main street. THAT'S where my rights end where another's begin.

The list goes on and on...



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Do I understand correctly - that although you understand that events happen which infringe rights of certain groups - you personally do not experience the feeling of having your rights violated? This reflects my view as well, the events are facts but to imply some rationality behind aberrations in behavior is not something in which I engage. Nor does accepting any emotive content from outside influences, gettin' riled up over somebody else's opinion isn't for me.

It sounds as if you also live your principles and take measures to protect your rights - as if it's really up to anyone else.


gj



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by ganjoa
 


I would say that you most certainly do understand correctly. Not only that, you have a beautiful way of saying it.


So many people talk about being responsible and accountable, but very few really know it means and few apply it to all areas of their lives, gladly turning into "the victim" when it suits their agenda. My opinion.



[edit on 4/13/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 09:58 PM
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The important part of rights, to me at least, is they have both positive and negative aspects.

The quote you mention, in full is, "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." -Oliver Wendell Holmes

This perfectly displays both positive and negative rights.

"The right to swing my fist" is my positive right TO swing my fist. A positive right, to actively do something.

"...ends where the other man's nose begins" is the other man's right NOT TO be hit. A negative right, not to do, or not to have something done to you.

Freedom of Speech. I have the positive right to say whatever I want. Almost. As others have a negative right not to have "fighting words" hurled at them, or to be slandered.

Freedom of Press. I have the positive right to publish anything I want. Almost. As others have a negative right not to be libeled.

Etc.

For me the most important right, especially the negative aspect, is Religion. We all have the positive right to practice any religion we chose, or to not practice a religion. And we all have the negative right not to have someone else's religion foisted upon us, whether through indoctrination, proselytizing, or others' religious beliefs infringing upon my other rights.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by AskTheQuestion
 


According to the Human rights..yes WE DO have the right to practice our beliefs, to have freedom of speech, freedom of movement..etc.
But it appears that those are slowly disappearing.
More and more often a citizens rights are being violated by those in authority.
I'm not just speaking of law, but government as well.
Perhaps because Iam outside the normal box..I can see it.
Perhaps because I live in Canada, Iam aware of what is going on in the US more-so than those smack in the middle of it.
I'm just speculating...but it's almost as if some see that there is a tree there, not an entire forest.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by AskTheQuestion
 


Thank you very much for that explanation. I was having a hard time understanding what the phrase actually meant in practice and you have educated me.



Originally posted by AccessDenied
But it appears that those are slowly disappearing.
...
I can see it.


AD, I'm assuming you mean in situations that are in addition to those already mentioned (Gitmo, Katrina, etc). In other words, random law-abiding citizens (like me) losing their rights. Could you give me a few examples of what you're seeing? I don't know if I'm too close to the situation or what, but I'm not seeing it. Thanks.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by AccessDenied
 


I never claimed we didn't have the right to practice religions, simply that your right to practice religion shouldn't infringe on my right not to, or to practice a different religion.

This comes up quite a bit in diverse religious populations. The Muslims want Sharia Law, the Jews want things to be Kosher, the Hindus want their system, etc. This creates a problem because Sharia Law (according to Muslims) affects everyone, not just Muslims, so the Muslim right to practice infringes on everyone else's right not to practice Islam, or to practice their own religion. And yes this is an issue because it's in the Koran and Hadith for Sharia to function this way. Any deviation is going against the will of Allah, according to Muslim doctrine.

Same for Christian "ethics" in the West. If the religious chose to practice that way, that's their right, but they don't have the right to force others to live by their religious doctrines.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by AskTheQuestion
 


And THAT was the purpose of my thread.
I see so many complaining about their rights being infringed upon, or taken away by state or government.
Some by way of national security, some by the trend of political correctness.
Not a day goes by that there isn't a headline somewhere about a person being violated or stripped of basic rights as a person.
The tip of the iceberg?




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