Europe divorcing America

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by triplesod

 

Surely, as usual, there's a little truth on both sides.

Yes, we were able to hold off Hitler until his interest switched to Russia. What would have happened if he had ignored the Russians and kept the assault going at full strength is difficult to say.


[edit on 18-4-2010 by DISRAELI]

Well, all War Games done during the war and post war (you can see several versions on different documentaries) by American military, British military and I believe the Germans had a go recently for something, show that German invasion of the UK would have been an impossibility with thousands of Germans being slaughtered before having to pull out.

Of course that doesn't make it fact but I would go along with several different groups many studies which all show the same outcome, especially as the people working on the war games were the very best military and strategic minds.

It would have been an absolute travesty for Britain of course, another lost generation.

EDIT: Of course CHurchill thought we couldn't have won without them. We couldn't. Neither could there have been an allied victory without Britain or Russia.
If any of the three main countries were missing, it is very likely that there could never have been an allied victory in Europe.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by triplesod]

reply to post by triplesod


Of course CHurchill thought we couldn't have won without them. We couldn't. Neither could there have been an allied victory without Britain or Russia.
If any of the three main countries were missing, it is very likely that there could never have been an allied victory in Europe.

Very true.

The fact is Hitler was over confident. Had he continued his attack on england and not attacked russia the war would have had a whole different outcome.
A victory by the allied forces was won by a group.
And looking at the total numbers of death tolls of allied and axis countrys it proves that it was a group effort and makes one wonder, what if.......

Total allied losses military and civilian.
39,963,700
russia lost 20 million, china lost 10 million

Total axis losses military and civilian.
8,268,000
germany lost 4 million

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE

The fact is Hitler was over confident. Had he continued his attack on england and not attacked russia the war would have had a whole different outcome.
A victory by the allied forces was won by a group.
And looking at the total numbers of death tolls of allied and axis countrys it proves that it was a group effort and makes one wonder, what if.......

Looking at my prior post you can see that America brought the biggest fight to the war, but the main point is what if America stayed out of it completely? If we decided to be complete isolationist and let the chips fall where they may, Germany would be ruling Europe today and Japan would rule the Far East with America pretty much untouchable still.
Germany was unstoppable and few extra years without US bombing the crap out of them and meeting their force with a greater force London would be in the place of Hiroshima in the history books, and German would be the main language taught in UK schools.. .


[edit on 19-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

Are ye dumbasses still going on about WW2?

Everyone knows the US's part in defeating the Nazi's was integral.. Anyone with half a brain knows that..

Its just the retarded comments from braindead hicks who like to think that Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers is the definitive idea of exactly how WW2 went in Europe is where the problems arise.. Because simply put, the problems that Europe had to get over with the whole thing only ended in 1989 and listening to a ridiculous amount of Chest beating, flag waving Yanks going on about things that they haven't a clue about gets frustrating after the thousandth time..

The US did NOT win WW2 in Europe.. Britain halted the Western advance, Russia Created the Collapse and the US put the nail in the coffin.. Thats obvious to anyone who has read a history book...

Victory would not have come without all three main players.. And where do you think the Nazi's would have directed their attention towards next? The US? No doubt..

But this idea that the US conquered Europe creates these arguments and to be fair, just reinforces the "Americans are generally quite retarded" views that quite a lot of people around this part of the World have already as a result of previously encountering the sizable and severely undereducated portion of US internet lurkers who like nothing more than to shoot their mouths off online.. Basically reiterating a dumbed down, badly spelt version of Cold War propaganda in youtube comments left, right and center.

So everyone get a bit of scope.. and cop yourselves on..

America has nothing to offer us. They are the slackers of a bygone era , the perpetrators of wars tainted of a religious disposition . Who needs that anymore. Who needs those that seek to sow disharmony , discord and enmity. We need to build relations with nations on a realistic level, ones based on common good will and harmonic relationships . What good is it riding the dragons tail of being in support of the US and off on some crazed terrorist hunt as a basis for international relationships. Terrorists account for a minuscule amount even compared to malaria, yet we are supposed to listen to this nonsense to appraise the nations we commit to do trade with. We need to isolate the US as an ideological source of BS and of dubious sense of reality and work our trade relationships aside from their perpetual whining of enemy out to get them. They can get on with their pseudo crazed religious fear infested world without us.

Originally posted by Drexl
America has nothing to offer us.

More importantly...what does Europe have to offer America?

So who would be divorcing who? I would love for us to pull back and let the world know that Europe is on their own from America no matter what.
And since America really needs NOTHING from Europe we can tax the crap out of all the exports to Europe. Win win situation for America by far.

I can see a greater chasm appearing , with regard to the general amercan mindset and those of that of the european. The european is not acclimatised to the general level of disinformation and propaganda that is bestowed upon the general american. When the European sees the waves of general right wing war monger rhetoric spewing across the ocean , it is observed as a sign of the usual american bs issuing forth. They speak for you , it is your squeaky wheel. The considered and the liberal american are represented by these fools.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Drexl
America has nothing to offer us.

More importantly...what does Europe have to offer America?

What we have to offer each other is the chance of avoiding a situation in which the Eurasian continent is controlled from one end to the other by Russia and China.

Perhaps we need to re-examine the unspoken assumption "The Cold War is over".

Originally posted by Xtrozero
More importantly...what does Europe have to offer America?

More importantly?

Touche? Nein!!

As a 25 year old, I can offer you some scope into what its like not to have your Patriotic bone tickled by your government every time they want money or lives for a new war.. refreshing innit?



But to be fair.. the amount of people in the EU that want to abandon the implosive US empire asap but can't because its so unstable that it would probably explode in an orgy of dead Muslims is unbelievable.. We'll support you guys so ye don't melt all over the place.. Don't worry..

The obvious comeback to this from the Yank end is "We should have left you alone in WW2".. Yea.. Ye probably should have.. I speak German and English as it is.. two languages foreign to my country.. And to be fair, I wouldn't mind blonde hair (oder Blonde Haare auf Deutsch) to go with my blue eyes (blau Augen)..

I still love you guys tho.. Good job!

Tax imports from Europe? And what exactly would the US do if the EU began taxing US financial services in our markets? Em.. thats a simple one..

And there's really no point in getting all high and mighty over there dude, when a massive chunk of your economy is based on War, there's only one way to go.. the way of the Greeks, Romans, French, Germans, Brits etc etc..

I still love you guys tho.. Good job!

As much as I like the US, its the ego is the killer.. We don't care if 62% of your tax money is spent on ensuring your "Safety" (ie. The destabilization of the Eurasian landmass).. Just stop telling us.. Its not something that is in any way impressive to us..

And greatest country? Take it from someone who is proud of the fact that their nationalism isn't an issue... Countries are sooooo 20th century

I still love you guys tho.. Good job!

Did I compliment you guys enough there? Please don't bomb me..

Ich wünsche Ihnen einen angenehmen Abend..

US doesn't have anything to offer , except coca cola, depleted uranium and wars. We in europe need to establish partners that can provide a reliable energy source . What do you offer ? , oh your 'culture', and your threat to bring 'democracy' to any nation that doesn't offer you a sweet deal. Your illusion of being a nation of good and the righteous is shot to hell , for many a decade . If not for good. What you need to do , is withdraw yourself into some kind of inner reflection on your own seni nazi like circumstance, and not bother the world anymore of false accounts of how exceptional you are , because nobody really believed that bs in the first place.

What I do not understand is the aura of sainthood that is placed on these US troops , that nobody, not even non-americans are expected to wish them ill. Well, I do , I wish they went home in a body bag . I am not american , but I do not see my opinions are exceptional. They would be the opinions of americans , say , if it were Iraqi soldiers on US streets, Iraqi Gunships over US cities . I see , sometimes , people give these opinions, then an american will follow with a 'how dare you 'response, then they retract. I would not retract , ever. They think we should always see it from their US perspective, they think that we should think they are exceptional, and their troops are too and beyond condemnation.

[edit on 19-4-2010 by Drexl]

We should ditch the whole package , why do we have to cater for their perpetual insecurities. There is always some bogus enemy they have in the crosshair, it is ok when they keep it at home but when it influences other nations foreign affairs , then we ought to curtail their imaginative fear mongering ways. They can't keep away from it , either it the ruskies or the chinks or the gooks or the islamists or it's lex luther , oh there goes that bogeyman bin laden right there. It won't end. Ever . It has to be extracted from the policies of international governments, else we'll turn into some bizarre bogeyman chasing circus.

There will not be a divorce. If anything we will announce our second wedding. After several days of research on the current political and social trend of the upcoming voters and voters under the age of 30 in Europe(including UK) I now see a bad trend. Europeans are becoming more Americanized. My guess would be because of television and the internet. Before the internet Europeans kept to their own nations and believed strongly in national identity and pride, they respected America for helping in ww2 but that is as far as it went.

Now the young generation wants corporate capitalism, european unity, green issues, and social progressivism. They are now big fans of corporations, against national pride, and against the social welfare model. My guess would be that in about 20 years most European countries will resemble America more than their past. This could be a dangerous path because it will allow more pro-eu propaganda and will probably allow a pan-european army. We could see the US and EU pillaging the world again with a monstrous propaganda machine the spins lies to make people support war, corporations and a corrupt government.

The only european country I see that has never really changed throughout time and will probably never fall into what I just mentioned above is Switzerland. They have never lost their values and I think that is due to their direct democracy which takes the power away from politicians and gives it to the citizens.

As the developing countries rise we will probably see europeans who support social democratic innitiatives will probably move to Latin America.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

What we have to offer each other is the chance of avoiding a situation in which the Eurasian continent is controlled from one end to the other by Russia and China.

Perhaps we need to re-examine the unspoken assumption "The Cold War is over".

I know of direct proof that Russia has not dropped the idea of expantion in the least. The old cold war is basically the idea of launching 1000 nukes at each other and I do believe that is over, but Russia will in the future push their agendas as they see fit.

China on the other hand has just started to flex their muscles and as example they have built the greatest navy in the world over the last 20 years while the rest of us have reduced ours. Also how long did it take a country like Germany to go from a friendly European nation to one that wanted to dominate the world? Divorce us and we will see will we not? But in the end America has and will enjoy the physical isolation that prevents anything short of an all out nuclear war, and that is not a piece of mind that Europe can also have..

So all I can say is good luck for America really doesn’t need Europe as anything more than cannon fodder from Russia, China India or a few other countries joining together for they own agendas.

Originally posted by mackey1224uk

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
As an american I would hope America gets allimony and chid support especially for saving them in WWII.

And who did you excactly save in ww2 because it was'nt the brits.

You saved the russians, and the rest of the europen countryts. From what I can remember not one German foot soldier set foot on british soil so can you tell me how you so-called yanks, saved us from Hilter?

technically wrong. Nazi' were captured in Bridgend as POW's and escaped. UK or any other European country dose not need America. If we depart from America we have the Russians and i think I would have the Russians on our side more than i would Americans.
Many people are turning against America.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by anonymousproxy]

Originally posted by Drexl
US doesn't have anything to offer , except coca cola, depleted uranium and wars. We in europe need to establish partners that can provide a reliable energy source . What do you offer ? , oh your 'culture', and your threat to bring 'democracy' to any nation that doesn't offer you a sweet deal. Your illusion of being a nation of good and the righteous is shot to hell , for many a decade . If not for good. What you need to do , is withdraw yourself into some kind of inner reflection on your own seni nazi like circumstance, and not bother the world anymore of false accounts of how exceptional you are , because nobody really believed that bs in the first place.

Just on a side thought....

Maybe America has nothing to offer, but what if America became the next Germany of WWII, wouldn't that be a nasty event, I'm sure there was a time that Europe never thought Germany would do what they did. Maybe being our partner in the end prevents a like situation, and if that situation ever happened it would be like Germany but ten fold...ugly thought...

reply to post by Xtrozero


I do not think it is far from many peoples consideration that the US is the next nazi germany. The only advantage you have is a propaganda machine Goebbels could only dream about.

The ironic reality is that according to expert analytical data, the USA is about to become majority Latin populated within 50 years, without too many angry shots been fired.

Yet millions of fine young Americans died defending Europe.

Human life is only valuable to the living.

Many millions of Americans died fighting the Japanese the Germans,but now the reasons are erased.
Strange it wasnt about ideaolgy at all, nor keeping your country christian or democratic.
Now its about keeping the economy ticking over constantly.
If you are a European by birth or an American by birth and you are unemployed, dont worry the immigrants will show you how to get a job.
They will show you how to buy a house, how to save for retirement, how to buy an investment house to rent out to the peasants.
Just keep stum .Just like those that lie on the forgotten battle grounds.
You are the dead.

Well, Europe does not need America for anything. Infact over the last 15 years the Amercians have pissed off the entire world and the only way they know how to deal with it is start wars that they continually lose.

America is doomed to be controlled solely by the large Corporations, Banks and Texan Oil Kings. They will rape, pillage and destroy their own citizens if they dare to disobey.

Europe will soon shut off all irrelevant contact with the US. Eurpoe has what it needs without the US. Only a few more things to "collect" from the US before American will be shunned from Europe completely. THEy will be the ones searched, victimised and scanned and tagged - just like the rest of the world is when they visit the US of Assholes.
The US a a force is coming to an end...thats why they are starting wars, threatening people and killing innocents all over the world. Nothing but bully tactics. Now no bully ever wins in the long run.

The US has caused its own demise, 44% of people worldwide now no longer wnat to travel there as they must "give notice first" online..yeah right..we don't care about you Americans and watch as you implode.

What a shame really as they US used to be the land of dreams and opportunity.....a beautiful and tolerant country.....NO LONGER....you are hated world wide.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by agent149]

Next they'll be asking Israel which parent it wants to go with, dividing the oil evenly, etc...
such a shame.