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Tory Manifesto... A step in the Right Direction?

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posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033
Farage says what we all say here, that both conservative and labour are just the same, but different management.

So right, nothing will change.


I think the parties plans can be distilled down to the basics..

Labour - Let us Tax you high and we will control how you live your life

Conservative - Let us tax you less and give you the power to control your own life.

Lib Dems - We want to change the way you vote so we get more seats, the other policies will come later.

I know who I'm going to vote for. I just hope that there are enough people out there that also feel the same as I do to ensure that we don't end up in hung parliament.

Peace Out,

Korg.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by Korg Trinity]




posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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In the present circumstances, what really matters is doing something to tackle the debt crisis.

Both parties are a little shy of talking about that, for fear of suggesting a method which might lose them votes.

I think the crux of the matter is that Labour are temperamentally incapable of cutting government spending, because the modern party is almost by definition a party for people receiving money from the government. They expect their voters to be the people who would lose out if there was reduced government spending.

The tax-payers, the people giving money to the government, need to be voting for whoever might represent them.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 09:53 AM
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I have to admit that it sounds a little better than I thought.. but there is nothing really there that I beleive they would follow through on..

There is neither passion or depth to the polcitics or policies of the main parties.. It lacks substance and is in my opinion simply a reflection of what people want to hear, while still being devoid of clarity and meaning.

I feel we are heading towards a hung parliment.. which I feel actually represents the stagnation that runs through this country from top to bottom, and until we sort that out we will sit in this stagnant loop of switiching coloured ties and nothing else at each election.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by Korg Trinity
Conservative - Let us tax you less and give you the power to control your own life.


In the real world they will be no different than labour, lol. They still want to control your life.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Chevalerous

I find it very interesting that all political parties moves generally rightwards since the 1970's.



One of the effects of that decade was to make it abundantly clear that full-blooded socialism simply doesn't work. Even left-wing parties have been gradually recognising the implications of that.


Yeah! but it's not that simple! lol!


And that statement of yours would not be true since NONE of the western countries in Europe ever had: "full-blooded socialism".

What it actually is - is the slow movement towards more neoliberalism in the economy here in Europe demanded by the lobby of the Corporations and Bilderbergers.

And what you actually can see in these charts, is that all parties at the same time, are drifting right towards both more neoliberalism AND upwards to the Authoritarian Right, which is toward:

Authoritarian Right = Corporatism = Fascism

This reveals to us how much power and influence the Corporations & the elite have these days over the political process.


[edit on 13-4-2010 by Chevalerous]



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


This, unfortunately is true.

If the Tories get in, I may lose my government job through spending cuts.

I'm voting Tory. I can get another job, I can't get another country. People should start thinking about the nation, rather that just about themselves.

We know that whoever gets in, we're going to have a hard time in the future. The money to pay off Laybour's debs has to come from somewhere, and that place is from us! It's inevitable and no party can deny that situation.

The difference is wher the money is saved and where it is spent. At the moment, layabout, sorry, laybour have got it completely backwards! They seem to think that the more organisers they have the more organised the system will become, whereas it just gets more complicated. "Too many cooks..."



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by Chevalerous


And that statement of yours would not be true since NONE of the western countries in Europe ever had: "full-blooded socialism".


[edit on 13-4-2010 by Chevalerous]


I must admit that i was really only talking about British conditions.

I was using "full-blooded socialism" as a comparative term, meaning that it was more so than New Labour.

And I can promise you that the British socialism of the 1970's did not work.
I lived through it.
It was a nightmare.
It was a time when people were starting to speculate that the country was becoming "ungovernable".
On that experimental basis, I stand by my statement that socialism does not work.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by DISRAELI]



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by nik1halo
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


This, unfortunately is true.

If the Tories get in, I may lose my government job through spending cuts.

I'm voting Tory. I can get another job, I can't get another country. People should start thinking about the nation, rather that just about themselves.

We know that whoever gets in, we're going to have a hard time in the future. The money to pay off Laybour's debs has to come from somewhere, and that place is from us! It's inevitable and no party can deny that situation.


I like the way you think. I wish more people could think like you!

I have to say though that although there is no other place ultimately to look for the money, I think it won't be as painful for the populace as many might think.

If you are building a house you start with the foundations, and I think this is where Labour have it all wrong. They think that paying back our deficit must come from direct taxes. But if they are sucking money out of the economy from the ground up then the economy itself becomes unstable.... This is a bit like pulling material from the foundation of a house to resurface the roof.... the house may colapse...

What I think the conservatives are doing is reducing the overall tax burden on the populace but reducing public spending at a higher rate than the tax burden. This creates a stronger economy as people would have more disposable income while achieving more direct revenue to go to pay off the deficit.

I think one way to think about this is the following example....

I work and earn around £2000 net a month (in sales its up some months down others). Now if I look at my families outgoings I discover that my outgoings are £2200 what do I do???

If I followed labours mind set I would go to the bank and ask for a larger overdraft.....

Is that the right thing to do?? I don't think so!!

If I was the Conservatives I would look through my expenditure and see what things I can do without...

Which is the right way to do it isn't it??

Surely this is really common sense...

all the best,

Korg.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by Korg Trinity]



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Korg Trinity
 


Yep, that's basically what I was trying to say, but it's difficult to be eloquent and reprogramme database links at the same time


Thank you for clearing up my mind for me



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by Korg Trinity
 


Have to say, that after reading though the manifesto with the link you kindly provided, I think I will be voting Tory.. I think Nick is right too.. New management and a new broom is needed to sort out the mess..

We have all fell into the banks traps with mortgages and credit, and now we need to tighten our belts and get rid of the things we don't need but heavily invest in the things we do whilst maximizing efficiency there also... Its just bloody common sense... Labour will just let us sink more in debt..



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
I have to admit that I liked many of the things on Cameron's manifesto..




'People power' at centre of drive for 'Big Society'
Residents get power to veto council tax rises
Voters can kick out MPs found guilty of wrongdoing
Parents, charities and businesses allowed to run own schools
Directly-elected police chiefs will set budgets and strategy
First-time buyer stamp duty threshold permanently raised to £250k
Immigration capped at around 50,000 a year


Some good stuff.. I particularly like that MP numbers will be reduced. Ministers pay will be cut and big government in general will be trimmed down.....

Your thoughts? Does it enthuse you and make you want to vote Tory? Or does it just sound like a bunch of old tosh??

To me it sounds too socialist to be a Tory manifesto... Tories the new Labour?




I'm not sure that business ownership of schools is particularly 'socialist'. Not only that, I'm not sure how that is a policy as it's already been effect for about a decade through Private Finance Initiatives. The PFI schemes, back door privatisation, are the thing that's killing the NHS and are starting to impact schools, prisons and so on.

Sure, it's dressed-up so parents and charities can run them, but they won't happen without corporate funding, which means that it will be really be businesses that own schools. It's incredible how they're dressing this up as a good thing.

There's two policies that are directly related too: if you allow council tax payers to veto council tax rises, then due to human nature people will do it - particularly now. Which means, that if there's less going in the pot - and check out your council tax bill rundown for how the money goes towards the police and so on - and therefore, the police will have no #ing choice but to work towards restricted budgets. Again, as with the schools think above, it's being sold as it will all be our choice and therefore ultimately our responsibility if things go tits up.

So, when the service we get from the police gets worse, schools gets worse and we want to protest about it, the #ing Tories will be able to turn around and say 'sorry Proles, it's your own fault!' all the while still raking it in as MPs: all the money and none of the responsibility.

It's a #ing scam.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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If the Tories get in, I may lose my government job through spending cuts. I'm voting Tory. I can get another job, I can't get another country. People should start thinking about the nation, rather that just about themselves.
reply to post by nik1halo
 


Typical black country mentality


You can be my dad



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by nik1halo
 


The world has turned upside down and inside out... Yesterday.. We had Gordo speaking up for the middle class... A LABOUR guy!!... Now we have conservatives speaking for the working man??? WTF???


Technically, not Labour but New Labour. It's an incredibly important difference that many have been forgetting for over a decade.

The conservatives, and all the parties, speak for the working man. But that's all they do, speak. They don't actually do anything for the working man. It's #ing easy to promise the Proles the moon on a stick, particularly if you've no intention of ever giving it to them.



I found myself agreeing with him... Truth is.. When the economy is in as bad a state as it is, we need money men and business men running the show rather than social engineers like Liebour... We need less governing and more social responsibility with everyone taking responsibility for themselves and their families rather than taking handouts from nanny government.. I also liked the part in the manifesto that says if healthy people on benifits refuse work then they have them taken off them... This will stop families like THIS from taking the piss....


The problem with this is, whilst it's all well and good raising your fists at the unemployed on benefits and demanding something should be done and cheering when you hear that people in the Daily Hate story will be 'punished', but the real problem is that for huge swathes of the country, there isn't work to be had anyway. What's the point on cracking down on benefit claimants when the real problem, the elephant in the room, is that for decades now, whole industries have disappeared from this country.

Where are the manufacturing industries - the staple work field for the working class proles? They were sold-off and shipped-out by the middle-class bourgeoisie who then told the proles the fantastic lie that there's no classes now and, if there is, we're all middle-class now. "Tell you what, you can work in a office like us now! Look a suit and tie job! Better than dirty overalls! Don't say we never give you anything. Two sugars, thanks mate." Get the proles in lower-end office jobs for a few years and make the lie look real and then guess what? Oh yes, sell on those jobs too. Cut more labour costs and outsource the work to India.

So the bourgeoisie sells out the heavy and light industries and closing down a whole genre of work to the proles. Then they do the same with the service industry they promised would replace it. All the while, other non-skilled work goes right out of the window: check out staff disappearing from the retail industry, warehouses becoming more and more computerised and less reliant on human workforce and so on.

And any prick saying that the proles and lumpen-proles have as good a chance as anyone else getting education, jobs and university places are mistaken: you only have to look at the state of the social mobility index in this country to know that the class divide is bigger than ever.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Yissachar1
 


But it wasThe Tories who encouraged us to go to the banks for mortgages and loans etc.

It was The Tories who sold off all the council houses and didn't replace them thus forcing people to buy private and fuelling soaring house prices etc.

Something we are still paying the price for now!

I know that this bunch of middle-class twerps can't be blamed for the mistakes the last lot of middle-class twerps did.

The problem is that the choice is now a bunch of middle-class twerps or a bunch of middle-class berks running the country with no regard for the well being of the every day man and woman.

As for manifesto's?
They mean very little.
Howmany times have we taken the previous elections manifesto's out and sytematically gone through them to see if the government hasactually delivered on what it said?

The Digital Economy Bill, en.wikipedia.org... recently went through Parliament undebated and unopposed by no-one other than a small handful of cross party MP's.
This policy was not in any parties manifesto at the last election yet it was unopposed by all main parties thus signifying agreement.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 10:54 AM
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Regarding my above post - much of which wasn't actually aimed at the poster I was replying to! - one of the issues I mentioned about lack of job opportunities for large demographics in the country ties into the carrot the Tories are waving about capping immigration. It's a nonsense and actually means nothing. 50,000 are stilling coming in a year and the bulk of those won't be middle-class business men; they will be doing the jobs that have traditionally been done by the working classes. Immigration isn't really a middle-class issue in the way it is a working class issue and the main parties won't address this on these terms.

Whilst a 50,000 a year cap sounds great, it's still 50,000 jobs that will be generally coming from a 'working class' pool and it's going to be 50,000 working class people that will find it harder to actually find a job. Don't be fooled by the numbers, just look at the actual issues.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by Merriman Weir
if you allow council tax payers to veto council tax rises, then due to human nature people will do it - particularly now. Which means, that if there's less going in the pot - and check out your council tax bill rundown for how the money goes towards the police and so on - and therefore, the police will have no #ing choice but to work towards restricted budgets. Again, as with the schools think above, it's being sold as it will all be our choice and therefore ultimately our responsibility if things go tits up.

So, when the service we get from the police gets worse, schools gets worse and we want to protest about it, the #ing Tories will be able to turn around and say 'sorry Proles, it's your own fault!' all the while still raking it in as MPs: all the money and none of the responsibility.

It's a #ing scam.



Nope its not a scam.

here is the reasoning...

I live in Humberside. My council tax bill went up recently. Now I have a family of four with two young children. The amount of rubbish my family produce is more than the total capacity of the bins provided.

I rang the council to get a new larger bin, I said you can charge me for it, i'm just fed up of driving to the local recycle centre ever two weeks.

What the council said was, sorry we can't provide a larger bin because you have less than five people in the house.

This is the sort of totally stupid policy that make voters mad....

I have no problem paying for a service if that service is needed and rendered... but what has happened under labour is we are being massively taxed for services that is either not delivered or there is some long paper trail to go through to get what has been paid for.

Where is all the money going???

I did more research and found that the council had outsourced the Waste disposal to a company not even local to our town and guess what I find??? one of the prominent council figures just happens to be listed on companies house as a non acting director of this waste disposal company....

See where I am going with this??

Also the Conservatives giving power to the people, allowing them to fight against council tax rises and kicking out corrupt MP's is all about ensuring the councils do thier job as Civil Servants...

After all isn't the very meaning of the words Civil Servant = Servant of the people???

Peace out,

Korg,



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Chevalerous


And that statement of yours would not be true since NONE of the western countries in Europe ever had: "full-blooded socialism".


[edit on 13-4-2010 by Chevalerous]


I must admit that i was really only talking about British conditions.

I was using "full-blooded socialism" as a comparative term, meaning that it was more so than New Labour.

And I can promise you that the British socialism of the 1970's did not work.
I lived through it.
It was a nightmare.
It was a time when people were starting to speculate that the country was becoming "ungovernable".
On that experimental basis, I stand by my statement that socialism does not work.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by DISRAELI]



Yes! I really understand what you mean mate!

But!..that was not real true socialism - it was the evil perverse plan of the elite all along in the 1970's to make things worse on purpose and then blame it on their phony socialism - so they could in the next step, implement their plan of more neoliberalism and corporatism/fascism/authoritarianism - to where we are today.

It was a way, to pave way for the "Iron Lady" as the saviour


And fast forward to today! now we are living in the nightmare of the Lisbon Treaty, imagine that!


All of this also happened in the same stages elsewhere in Europe during the same time period from the late 1970's up til today.

And the public bought it from the puppets - hook, lies & sinker

Who benefited most the years of Reagan/Thatcherism and their agenda of neoliberal economical policies which was implemented here in every country of Europe?

It was not the majority of the people in the long run, since most jobs went overseas with the neoliberal corporated globalisation to Asia.

No! it was the damn corporations & banks which benefited the most.

It was a power-grab 'by the corporations for the corporations' by their corrupted henchmen who were acting as our politicians!

Each step, taking away more of our freedom and implemented more power to the corporations & financial elite.

Sure, they gave us an illusion of economic growth & prosperity so that no one would complain until their plan was fully implemented.

They bribed us with the bubble fraud/out of control speculation economy with consumerism and hypnotic crappy TV entertainment, so the masses became dumbed down & were asleep and wouldn't complain while they were robbing us blind.

They cooked their books, bribed and drugged us with this illusion of economic prosperity & growth which was all based on lies & fraud, and therefore wasn't the real economy.

They created more 'credit default swaps' and 'Interest rate swaps' derivatives than the total wealth of the whole world collected - 'The $531 Trillion Dollar Derivatives Time Bomb' - they can now not even cover more than a few percent of them, even if they wanted to.

Then they repackaged many those derivatives with worthless underlaying financial instrument and toxic financial assets to the point that no one now really knows, what the real value was from the beginning.

And now they have the nerve and are telling us to pay for that illusion & fraud and all those debts! - privatise the profits and socialise the losses!

The worst and most outrageous part of these banks & corporations is that they want us to pay for their power-grab.

They want us to pick up the bill!


At the same time, they started behind the curtain the process of killing off the strong middle class.

The bottom line here is - the neoliberal economy during the years of 1980-90's was not real - it was a fraud, pumped up by false bubbles from the false speculation economy by the corporations & banks and their political henchmen, which we, are paying dearly for, today!

Who shaped the policies and told people to consume and to borrow money, greasing their systems so they could rob us blind?

And who fell for it - easy false money from the banksters and seditious rhetorics from their political henchmen - they fooled the crap out of the people!

Look at all charts - there is no difference between Red or Blue anymore, in whole of Europe - they are actually almost located at the same spot on the spectrum if you do the comparative analysis.

This was the plan all along! - we're screwed by the elite! - they are now openly screwing us with an illusion.

Pick the Red or Blue pill these days? it doesn't matter anymore! they are the same 'fracking' thing of the political spectrum analysis.

We are living in a political illusion and in a nightmare of corporate fascism mixed with Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis Hegelian dialectic - all over Europe my friend!

There ain't no 'Red' or 'Blue' anymore! sorry! such discussion would be silly!


Got a Revolution?


[edit on 13-4-2010 by Chevalerous]



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by Korg Trinity

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
if you allow council tax payers to veto council tax rises, then due to human nature people will do it - particularly now. Which means, that if there's less going in the pot - and check out your council tax bill rundown for how the money goes towards the police and so on - and therefore, the police will have no #ing choice but to work towards restricted budgets. Again, as with the schools think above, it's being sold as it will all be our choice and therefore ultimately our responsibility if things go tits up.

So, when the service we get from the police gets worse, schools gets worse and we want to protest about it, the #ing Tories will be able to turn around and say 'sorry Proles, it's your own fault!' all the while still raking it in as MPs: all the money and none of the responsibility.

It's a #ing scam.



Nope its not a scam.

here is the reasoning...

I live in Humberside. My council tax bill went up recently. Now I have a family of four with two young children. The amount of rubbish my family produce is more than the total capacity of the bins provided.

I rang the council to get a new larger bin, I said you can charge me for it, i'm just fed up of driving to the local recycle centre ever two weeks.

What the council said was, sorry we can't provide a larger bin because you have less than five people in the house.

This is the sort of totally stupid policy that make voters mad....

I have no problem paying for a service if that service is needed and rendered... but what has happened under labour is we are being massively taxed for services that is either not delivered or there is some long paper trail to go through to get what has been paid for.

Where is all the money going???

I did more research and found that the council had outsourced the Waste disposal to a company not even local to our town and guess what I find??? one of the prominent council figures just happens to be listed on companies house as a non acting director of this waste disposal company....

See where I am going with this??

Also the Conservatives giving power to the people, allowing them to fight against council tax rises and kicking out corrupt MP's is all about ensuring the councils do thier job as Civil Servants...

After all isn't the very meaning of the words Civil Servant = Servant of the people???

Peace out,

Korg,


You're completely missing the point of my post and misunderstanding Tory policy. Yes, council services are shoddy at the best of times. Yes, we all seem to be paying more and getting less. I think this is typical no matter what party is running local government.

However, you seemed surprise that this is outsourced to private firms - ostensibly an historically Tory approach - and that a councillor was connected to the firm - against historically something that's been far more a Tory issue.

You seemed to be under the impression that Tories are giving more power to the people. This is a smoke screen as, in a superficial sense they probably will, but the other side of this coin is that a Tory government will be in power and in bed with private business in a way that would make New Labour blush. Think of the amount of privatisation that's happened in the last 12 years with the explosions of NHS Trusts, Academy schools and so on - PFI stuff that I've gone on about many times on this board. What this creates is a situation where neither the government or private business take responsibility for faults: they just point fingers at each other.

Now, in the Tory New World, what they want to do is carry on and ramp-up the levels of privatisation (and where they don't express this openly, it's suggested as private firms are going to be needed if they're breaking-up and breaking-down public bodies). So this is a continuation and expansion of much of the #ty New Labour practices - incidentally, a lot of the # that people are complaining about now and looking to other parties for. However, the twist is that the Tories want to involve the public - me and you. Now our role in this is to basically get involved in a three-way finger-pointing and blame-sharing exercise. However, what's interesting here is that the Tories are setting-up a system where, if things go wrong, it's not actually their fault, it will be come our fault.



posted on May, 20 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Yissachar1
 


I like the sound of it also, but anything that gives back power to the people sounds good after 13 years of Big Brother obsessed New Labour. If they repair all the damage New Labour have done to this country, then that's a good thing, but we've grown to know MP's only too well. They tend to tell us what we want to here and then do the complete opposite. Hopefully this time it will be different. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.



[edit on 20-5-2010 by kindred]



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