Originally posted by andy1033
Farage says what we all say here, that both conservative and labour are just the same, but different management.

So right, nothing will change.

I think the parties plans can be distilled down to the basics..

Labour - Let us Tax you high and we will control how you live your life

Conservative - Let us tax you less and give you the power to control your own life.

Lib Dems - We want to change the way you vote so we get more seats, the other policies will come later.

I know who I'm going to vote for. I just hope that there are enough people out there that also feel the same as I do to ensure that we don't end up in hung parliament.

Peace Out,

Korg.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by Korg Trinity]

In the present circumstances, what really matters is doing something to tackle the debt crisis.

Both parties are a little shy of talking about that, for fear of suggesting a method which might lose them votes.

I think the crux of the matter is that Labour are temperamentally incapable of cutting government spending, because the modern party is almost by definition a party for people receiving money from the government. They expect their voters to be the people who would lose out if there was reduced government spending.

The tax-payers, the people giving money to the government, need to be voting for whoever might represent them.

I have to admit that it sounds a little better than I thought.. but there is nothing really there that I beleive they would follow through on..

There is neither passion or depth to the polcitics or policies of the main parties.. It lacks substance and is in my opinion simply a reflection of what people want to hear, while still being devoid of clarity and meaning.

I feel we are heading towards a hung parliment.. which I feel actually represents the stagnation that runs through this country from top to bottom, and until we sort that out we will sit in this stagnant loop of switiching coloured ties and nothing else at each election.

Originally posted by Korg Trinity
Conservative - Let us tax you less and give you the power to control your own life.

In the real world they will be no different than labour, lol. They still want to control your life.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Chevalerous

I find it very interesting that all political parties moves generally rightwards since the 1970's.

One of the effects of that decade was to make it abundantly clear that full-blooded socialism simply doesn't work. Even left-wing parties have been gradually recognising the implications of that.

Yeah! but it's not that simple! lol!

And that statement of yours would not be true since NONE of the western countries in Europe ever had: "full-blooded socialism".

What it actually is - is the slow movement towards more neoliberalism in the economy here in Europe demanded by the lobby of the Corporations and Bilderbergers.

And what you actually can see in these charts, is that all parties at the same time, are drifting right towards both more neoliberalism AND upwards to the Authoritarian Right, which is toward:

Authoritarian Right = Corporatism = Fascism

This reveals to us how much power and influence the Corporations & the elite have these days over the political process.


[edit on 13-4-2010 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by Chevalerous


And that statement of yours would not be true since NONE of the western countries in Europe ever had: "full-blooded socialism".


[edit on 13-4-2010 by Chevalerous]

I must admit that i was really only talking about British conditions.

I was using "full-blooded socialism" as a comparative term, meaning that it was more so than New Labour.

And I can promise you that the British socialism of the 1970's did not work.
I lived through it.
It was a nightmare.
It was a time when people were starting to speculate that the country was becoming "ungovernable".
On that experimental basis, I stand by my statement that socialism does not work.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by DISRAELI]

Originally posted by Yissachar1
I have to admit that I liked many of the things on Cameron's manifesto..




'People power' at centre of drive for 'Big Society'
Residents get power to veto council tax rises
Voters can kick out MPs found guilty of wrongdoing
Parents, charities and businesses allowed to run own schools
Directly-elected police chiefs will set budgets and strategy
First-time buyer stamp duty threshold permanently raised to £250k
Immigration capped at around 50,000 a year


Some good stuff.. I particularly like that MP numbers will be reduced. Ministers pay will be cut and big government in general will be trimmed down.....

Your thoughts? Does it enthuse you and make you want to vote Tory? Or does it just sound like a bunch of old tosh??

To me it sounds too socialist to be a Tory manifesto... Tories the new Labour?

I'm not sure that business ownership of schools is particularly 'socialist'. Not only that, I'm not sure how that is a policy as it's already been effect for about a decade through Private Finance Initiatives. The PFI schemes, back door privatisation, are the thing that's killing the NHS and are starting to impact schools, prisons and so on.

Sure, it's dressed-up so parents and charities can run them, but they won't happen without corporate funding, which means that it will be really be businesses that own schools. It's incredible how they're dressing this up as a good thing.

There's two policies that are directly related too: if you allow council tax payers to veto council tax rises, then due to human nature people will do it - particularly now. Which means, that if there's less going in the pot - and check out your council tax bill rundown for how the money goes towards the police and so on - and therefore, the police will have no #ing choice but to work towards restricted budgets. Again, as with the schools think above, it's being sold as it will all be our choice and therefore ultimately our responsibility if things go tits up.

So, when the service we get from the police gets worse, schools gets worse and we want to protest about it, the #ing Tories will be able to turn around and say 'sorry Proles, it's your own fault!' all the while still raking it in as MPs: all the money and none of the responsibility.

It's a #ing scam.

Regarding my above post - much of which wasn't actually aimed at the poster I was replying to! - one of the issues I mentioned about lack of job opportunities for large demographics in the country ties into the carrot the Tories are waving about capping immigration. It's a nonsense and actually means nothing. 50,000 are stilling coming in a year and the bulk of those won't be middle-class business men; they will be doing the jobs that have traditionally been done by the working classes. Immigration isn't really a middle-class issue in the way it is a working class issue and the main parties won't address this on these terms.

Whilst a 50,000 a year cap sounds great, it's still 50,000 jobs that will be generally coming from a 'working class' pool and it's going to be 50,000 working class people that will find it harder to actually find a job. Don't be fooled by the numbers, just look at the actual issues.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
if you allow council tax payers to veto council tax rises, then due to human nature people will do it - particularly now. Which means, that if there's less going in the pot - and check out your council tax bill rundown for how the money goes towards the police and so on - and therefore, the police will have no #ing choice but to work towards restricted budgets. Again, as with the schools think above, it's being sold as it will all be our choice and therefore ultimately our responsibility if things go tits up.

So, when the service we get from the police gets worse, schools gets worse and we want to protest about it, the #ing Tories will be able to turn around and say 'sorry Proles, it's your own fault!' all the while still raking it in as MPs: all the money and none of the responsibility.

It's a #ing scam.

Nope its not a scam.

here is the reasoning...

I live in Humberside. My council tax bill went up recently. Now I have a family of four with two young children. The amount of rubbish my family produce is more than the total capacity of the bins provided.

I rang the council to get a new larger bin, I said you can charge me for it, i'm just fed up of driving to the local recycle centre ever two weeks.

What the council said was, sorry we can't provide a larger bin because you have less than five people in the house.

This is the sort of totally stupid policy that make voters mad....

I have no problem paying for a service if that service is needed and rendered... but what has happened under labour is we are being massively taxed for services that is either not delivered or there is some long paper trail to go through to get what has been paid for.

Where is all the money going???

I did more research and found that the council had outsourced the Waste disposal to a company not even local to our town and guess what I find??? one of the prominent council figures just happens to be listed on companies house as a non acting director of this waste disposal company....

See where I am going with this??

Also the Conservatives giving power to the people, allowing them to fight against council tax rises and kicking out corrupt MP's is all about ensuring the councils do thier job as Civil Servants...

After all isn't the very meaning of the words Civil Servant = Servant of the people???

Peace out,

Korg,

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Chevalerous


And that statement of yours would not be true since NONE of the western countries in Europe ever had: "full-blooded socialism".


[edit on 13-4-2010 by Chevalerous]

I must admit that i was really only talking about British conditions.

I was using "full-blooded socialism" as a comparative term, meaning that it was more so than New Labour.

And I can promise you that the British socialism of the 1970's did not work.
I lived through it.
It was a nightmare.
It was a time when people were starting to speculate that the country was becoming "ungovernable".
On that experimental basis, I stand by my statement that socialism does not work.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by DISRAELI]

Yes! I really understand what you mean mate!

But!..that was not real true socialism - it was the evil perverse plan of the elite all along in the 1970's to make things worse on purpose and then blame it on their phony socialism - so they could in the next step, implement their plan of more neoliberalism and corporatism/fascism/authoritarianism - to where we are today.

It was a way, to pave way for the "Iron Lady" as the saviour

And fast forward to today! now we are living in the nightmare of the Lisbon Treaty, imagine that!

All of this also happened in the same stages elsewhere in Europe during the same time period from the late 1970's up til today.

And the public bought it from the puppets - hook, lies & sinker

Who benefited most the years of Reagan/Thatcherism and their agenda of neoliberal economical policies which was implemented here in every country of Europe?

It was not the majority of the people in the long run, since most jobs went overseas with the neoliberal corporated globalisation to Asia.

No! it was the damn corporations & banks which benefited the most.

It was a power-grab 'by the corporations for the corporations' by their corrupted henchmen who were acting as our politicians!

Each step, taking away more of our freedom and implemented more power to the corporations & financial elite.

Sure, they gave us an illusion of economic growth & prosperity so that no one would complain until their plan was fully implemented.

They bribed us with the bubble fraud/out of control speculation economy with consumerism and hypnotic crappy TV entertainment, so the masses became dumbed down & were asleep and wouldn't complain while they were robbing us blind.

They cooked their books, bribed and drugged us with this illusion of economic prosperity & growth which was all based on lies & fraud, and therefore wasn't the real economy.

They created more 'credit default swaps' and 'Interest rate swaps' derivatives than the total wealth of the whole world collected - 'The $531 Trillion Dollar Derivatives Time Bomb' - they can now not even cover more than a few percent of them, even if they wanted to.

Then they repackaged many those derivatives with worthless underlaying financial instrument and toxic financial assets to the point that no one now really knows, what the real value was from the beginning.

And now they have the nerve and are telling us to pay for that illusion & fraud and all those debts! - privatise the profits and socialise the losses!

The worst and most outrageous part of these banks & corporations is that they want us to pay for their power-grab.

They want us to pick up the bill!

At the same time, they started behind the curtain the process of killing off the strong middle class.

The bottom line here is - the neoliberal economy during the years of 1980-90's was not real - it was a fraud, pumped up by false bubbles from the false speculation economy by the corporations & banks and their political henchmen, which we, are paying dearly for, today!

Who shaped the policies and told people to consume and to borrow money, greasing their systems so they could rob us blind?

And who fell for it - easy false money from the banksters and seditious rhetorics from their political henchmen - they fooled the crap out of the people!

Look at all charts - there is no difference between Red or Blue anymore, in whole of Europe - they are actually almost located at the same spot on the spectrum if you do the comparative analysis.

This was the plan all along! - we're screwed by the elite! - they are now openly screwing us with an illusion.

Pick the Red or Blue pill these days? it doesn't matter anymore! they are the same 'fracking' thing of the political spectrum analysis.

We are living in a political illusion and in a nightmare of corporate fascism mixed with Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis Hegelian dialectic - all over Europe my friend!

There ain't no 'Red' or 'Blue' anymore! sorry! such discussion would be silly!

Got a Revolution?

[edit on 13-4-2010 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by Korg Trinity

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
if you allow council tax payers to veto council tax rises, then due to human nature people will do it - particularly now. Which means, that if there's less going in the pot - and check out your council tax bill rundown for how the money goes towards the police and so on - and therefore, the police will have no #ing choice but to work towards restricted budgets. Again, as with the schools think above, it's being sold as it will all be our choice and therefore ultimately our responsibility if things go tits up.

So, when the service we get from the police gets worse, schools gets worse and we want to protest about it, the #ing Tories will be able to turn around and say 'sorry Proles, it's your own fault!' all the while still raking it in as MPs: all the money and none of the responsibility.

It's a #ing scam.

Nope its not a scam.

here is the reasoning...

I live in Humberside. My council tax bill went up recently. Now I have a family of four with two young children. The amount of rubbish my family produce is more than the total capacity of the bins provided.

I rang the council to get a new larger bin, I said you can charge me for it, i'm just fed up of driving to the local recycle centre ever two weeks.

What the council said was, sorry we can't provide a larger bin because you have less than five people in the house.

This is the sort of totally stupid policy that make voters mad....

I have no problem paying for a service if that service is needed and rendered... but what has happened under labour is we are being massively taxed for services that is either not delivered or there is some long paper trail to go through to get what has been paid for.

Where is all the money going???

I did more research and found that the council had outsourced the Waste disposal to a company not even local to our town and guess what I find??? one of the prominent council figures just happens to be listed on companies house as a non acting director of this waste disposal company....

See where I am going with this??

Also the Conservatives giving power to the people, allowing them to fight against council tax rises and kicking out corrupt MP's is all about ensuring the councils do thier job as Civil Servants...

After all isn't the very meaning of the words Civil Servant = Servant of the people???

Peace out,

Korg,

You're completely missing the point of my post and misunderstanding Tory policy. Yes, council services are shoddy at the best of times. Yes, we all seem to be paying more and getting less. I think this is typical no matter what party is running local government.

However, you seemed surprise that this is outsourced to private firms - ostensibly an historically Tory approach - and that a councillor was connected to the firm - against historically something that's been far more a Tory issue.

You seemed to be under the impression that Tories are giving more power to the people. This is a smoke screen as, in a superficial sense they probably will, but the other side of this coin is that a Tory government will be in power and in bed with private business in a way that would make New Labour blush. Think of the amount of privatisation that's happened in the last 12 years with the explosions of NHS Trusts, Academy schools and so on - PFI stuff that I've gone on about many times on this board. What this creates is a situation where neither the government or private business take responsibility for faults: they just point fingers at each other.

Now, in the Tory New World, what they want to do is carry on and ramp-up the levels of privatisation (and where they don't express this openly, it's suggested as private firms are going to be needed if they're breaking-up and breaking-down public bodies). So this is a continuation and expansion of much of the #ty New Labour practices - incidentally, a lot of the # that people are complaining about now and looking to other parties for. However, the twist is that the Tories want to involve the public - me and you. Now our role in this is to basically get involved in a three-way finger-pointing and blame-sharing exercise. However, what's interesting here is that the Tories are setting-up a system where, if things go wrong, it's not actually their fault, it will be come our fault.