Yowies stalk bushwalker in Blue Mountains Australia

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posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by Oz Night Walker
 


Oz, look forward to your new thread. Please link it in here so we can find it.

As far as using the term "experiencer" goes, I was just saying that I don't have first hand experience. However, if ever I do 'experience' an actual sighting I'm sure it would shake my view of the world right to the core.

Theorising that yowies exist is one thing, having a face to face encounter would be quite another I imagine, especially an aggressive one! Anyone who does have one of these types of encounters and then actively encourages another encounter is either certifiable or has a serious pair of gonads IMHO. It is easy to be an armchair/sidline commentator, but to put your own 'hard earned' into what you believe in takes serious commitment. Ridiculing those that 'put up' is a cop out unless your putting as much into field research and resources as they are.

This is not a personal attack, nor am I backing any one researcher over another, just my take on things. It is easy to derail Rex Gilroy's efforts and put down Dean Harrison because of one dubious expedition, but for me these guys have really piqued my interest in yowies and kept me interested all these years.

If any of these abovementioned people or their colleagues ever read this please take this as my personal thanks!




posted on Jun, 5 2010 @ 04:17 AM
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reply to post by heffo7
 


damn those yowies maybe they wanted to eat him because he smelled like he just threw another shrimp on the bar-be. seriously, I think they just wanted the shrimp.



posted on Jun, 6 2010 @ 01:25 AM
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Hmmm... the term "experiencer" is favoured by the supernatural-subculture and is used in association with those who claim to experience repeated psychic events (like astral travel) and repeated visitations from paranormal entities (like aliens and UFOs, and spirits) and furthermore implies that such experiences and entities are somehow drawn to the "experiencer". That the term is also used to describe some alleged Yowie witnesses is hardly surprising.

Although those with an interest in psychic and paranormal experiences (ie the supernatural-subculture) make up only a small proportion of the overall population, they are somewhat over-represented within the ranks of "yowie research". Gilroy set the scene in the mid 70's and early 80's by publishing sensationalist Yowie articles in the now-defunct "Australian Psychic" magazine which had the effect of inspiring the elder statesmen of the current generation of "yowie researchers". The vast majority of Yowie information comes from authors who pander to the supernatural sub-culture and who conveniently overlook the dodgy methodology of the "yowie researchers" who supply them with (often sensational) reports. It is then highly amusing when such authors berate conventional science for not taking their claims seriously.

I applaud the enthusiasm of those who get out into the bush in search of evidence but let's not continue fooling ourselves into thinking that what they do out there constitutes anything even resembling systematic and subjective research. Some "yowie experts" go into the bush armed to the teeth with hi-tech recording equipment and claim hundreds of sightings - often dramatic in nature and in close proximity - yet always have an excuse for NOT having a camera on hand. And what excuse is there for when the yowie-evidence collected shows clear signs of fabrication?

It is a sign that things are not all that they are made out to be. Something is rotten with the state of crypto-zoology...

I suspect that a high percentage of alleged Yowie sightings comes from the supernatural-subculture - people who are highly suggestible, are more likely to have fantasy-prone personalities, and are often closely associated with those who call themselves "yowie researchers". I'm sorry if this offends anyone but there is good reason to doubt the accuracy, reliability, and often the honesty of such reports. Unfortunately, the problem goes much deeper than a single dubious expedition - Harrison's Yowie attack hoax and Tony's video are but the tip of the iceberg.

Much of "yowie research" is little more than folklore in action - the result of personal fantasy and storytelling. It is simply part of the process which propagates the ongoing mystery.

"When dreams come true what happens to the truth?" - Kenelm Burridge

Is there any truth to the Yowie? That's what I'd like to find out but the reality is deliberately obscured by the fiction and folklore.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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There seems to be a notion with some hobbyists/researchers, that whatever claims they make should be accepted, simply because they term themselves researchers. There also seems to be a notion that anyone who might be critical should be dismissed as a close minded “armchair cynic”. On the contrary in many instances from what I have seen. Some with criticisms seem intelligent and with a lot of experience in the bush. They may have been open minded to the possibility of these creatures existing, some still might hold this possibility open. In many instances I find these people more open minded than those who have firm conclusions around a creature, of which in many instances, they know almost nothing of despite their research. Other than conjecture in many cases. Though if someone says they have seen and encountered this creature, that would be hard to argue with. I have heard of much that doesn't add credibility to this field of study.

I agree that many of those that go to great lengths to study this phenomena and put their “hard earned” into it could well be genuine in what they do and in their beliefs. This video could have been titled “strange/unknown encounter in the Blue Mountains”. With a view to finding the cause of it, perhaps with some of that ”hard earned”. Instead it seems to have been simply accepted as a yowie encounter and offered as proof of such, with a lot of tributes and backslapping. Fair enough, yet even if accepted as credible no one really knows what was going on here with certainty IMO. For someone with a simple curiosity fair enough. I don't see a genuine researcher leaving it at that. This is not research.

There are parallels here with the new age movement, which this subject often lends itself to. Unexplained lights or craft seen in the sky (I have seen them too), ergo they must be piloted by aliens. Then all of the bizarre beliefs and cults that follow from this presumption. I find the subject of sleep, the process and what happens at this time in general quite fascinating, with much to be learned from a genuine study of it. Yet I have just about lost count of the number of times I have seen the more mystical term “astral travel” used by many including new age cult leaders to their own ends. Yowies are mysterious, so is magic, so are little aliens. Ipso facto, they are related. This is how I see new age/paranormal research, rightly or wrongly.

I feel I have made a mistake here which I am unlikely to repeat. While I see the possibility that this video is not what it appears, perhaps a simple comment to that end would have been better than posting anything more.I can see where the person that filmed it could be offended at the suggestion of it being staged. In this way I can only apologise. In the end I can't truly know the circumstances around this video, I only know what I have seen and that I am far less than convinced.

I am still very open minded as to the possibility of this creature's existence in some form. Still interesting even if it turned out to be more of a "yowie phenomena" than actual "yowie creature". I am not so sure that all researchers are bogus either. I see many shortfalls as being those of amateurs lacking training and resources. It is beginning to appear that this subject will remain like that of “Nessie”. Though I too would be interested in any new threads on this subject.




[edit on 7-6-2010 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 08:34 AM
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I would just like to clarify to everyone reading this thread that the person known as Oz Night Walker (Ed Skoda) is a well known disinformation merchant in Australia. It seems a few of you are getting sucked in by his garbage but this guy is well known in Australia. He has a personal vendetta against researchers like Dean Harrison and goes from forum to forum trying his darnest to tarnish the images of people who have been investigating the phenomena for decades! NW has by his own account been studying the subject for a whole 2 years!!! WOW!!!! Now he thinks he has become an expert in the field and the master of identifying hoaxes.

In fact, in my opinion it is an absolute disgrace that a guy with such little experience and who conducts flimsy research at best has the audacity to go onto numerous forums and spread absolute BS about researchers who have invested countless hours and years following up reports often at great personal sacrifice. NWs explanations are laughable at best as he spends zero time in the field – conducts no witness interviews (and no Ed your laughable email exchange/attack on Dean is not classed as an interview) and has the incredible ability to identify hoaxes with authority from the comfort of his own armchair. I was actually laughing at his posts as anyone would think he actually went out and followed up sightings or reports of activity and had some authority on the subject.

The guy has been banned and/or given warnings on various forums on the net and creates enemies wherever he goes. One example was his interaction with a prominent Australian witness on the Bigfoot forums. Once the witness told NW that he was more inclined to support AYRs views other than his - NW instantly labelled him a hoaxer based on the fact that he was in support of some of AYRs work. It seems that anyone who has ever logged onto AYR or took an interest in their work is part of some huge crazy scam that seems to only exist in NW`s dense grey matter!

But there is more , he doesn`t stop with AYR - he attempts to attack any person who dares follow the research seriously or publicly announce their sighting or findings. Tony for example, is the latest person on his hit list. I`m sure there will be others to come.

I`m afraid to say NW is simply a debunker with nothing of value to contribute to the field. For instance, he criticises everyone elses work but doesn`t explain how he contributes to the field. Why! Because he hasn`t done any quality research - the very thing he accuses others of!

This guy simply attempts to debunk everything. Thats what he is about. Show us what you`ve done Night Walker other than embellish details, make numerous false assumptions and attempt to tarnish reputations. He rambles on with the same garbage from forum to forum. You guys are just the latest victim to his endless rambling. The majority of people who seriously follow this subject in Australia do not even bother to respond to his garbage anymore. Normally I don`t either, but it seems a few of you guys are getting sucked into the notion that this guy is genuine. He is anything but! His garbage has gotten so bad that people have even resorted to making blogs in his honour:
nightwalker-yowies-netstalker.blogspot.com...


[edit on 9-6-2010 by SAB 8]

[edit on 9-6-2010 by SAB 8]

[edit on 9-6-2010 by SAB 8]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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To Cogito
Yes, there are a lot of people who call themselves researchers. Because that’s what they are doing. Reading, investigating, following-up reports and looking for evidence. Correct me if I am wrong – but is that not researching. Maybe it would be better if we label ourselves as enthusiasts. Incidentally, none of these guys call themselves experts or professionals – and they laugh at the notion of such a thing. The vast majority are hesitant to say what it is because at the end of the day they aren`t sure. Yes there is speculation and theories – but so is there in a lot ofeveryday common science. For example, black holes, quantum mechanics etc etc – because we haven`t got the tools to measure a lot of this stuff scientists come up with theories based on what available evidence there is!!! I`m still open to possibilities and I know many of your “yowie researchers” are also open-minded to what the true nature of this phenomena is. It seems ironic you guys are slamming “yowie researchers” but have no hesitation to come up with conclusions to cases such as Tony`s! Ha ha Hypocrisy! The only difference is you guys base your conclusions from what you get of the net. Most of the “yowie researchers” base their conclusions from what they see on the net – plus they take the time and effort to interview witnesses and often travel to the site of encounters.

You seem to be very interested in Tony`s case. I can answer some of your queries. I would like to say one thing firstly though, I do not necessarily agree with every enthusiasts or witnesses claims (contrary to self-appointed expert Night-Walkers opinion on "Yowie Researchers"). One thing I do, however (unlike Night Walker), is respect their right to an opinion based on their research. I too was interested in Tony`s case and took the time and effort to go and see him in person. Wow Night Walker - what an amazing concept. Imagine actually leaving your armchair and parting with your mouse to actually talk to a witness or "yowie researcher" in person - even go to the area of reported activity. No you wouldn`t waste your time though - because you can identify hoaxes just by looking at an internet report!


Cogito - Tony has not returned to the site because he was absolutely rattled by his encounter and refuses to go back alone. He seriously fears for his safety should he return to the site alone. Basically he has had the poop scared out of him. Also, he lives in western NSW and areas that are away from the cities and the coast have low population densities. Hence its often hard for him (and me for that matter) to get fellow enthusiasts (god forbid "Yowie Researchers") to team up with (but according to NW there`s an endless supply of Yowie hoaxers at Tony`s disposal with nothing better to do in their free time but hoax yowie videos)!

In regards to Tony being caught out. He was! He had been driving down that road and just having a look at areas of interest (gully`s, creeks etc etc). The area in question is a hotspot area and has a long history of yowie sightings. He actually wasn`t expecting anything dramatic to happen but carries his camera around on the off chance that something does occur (as I do). (Incidentally a lot of reported encounters occur at dusk as the yowie seems to be more comfortable when light conditions are poor to absent). Also, a lot of people get caught out in autumn and winter in Australia as the sun sets so much earlier. Especially in the April period as we lose an hour due to the ending of daylight savings. I constantly hear bushwalkers getting caught out at night because they underestimated the time. Tony freely admits he was caught out.

As far as differentiating boot noises from non-boot noises in the Australian bush well I must say that is impressive. You guys could perhaps get a job with the Australian Forensic Police.

If you look at Tony`s videos he says countless times: “I don`t know guys”. He does make a lot of speculative comments but he always usually throws in something like I don`t know or something along them lines. Becase, as he has told me at the end of the day he isn`t certain! He doesn`t profess to be an expert and he never has. He is simply someone with an intense interest in the subject and wants to know the truth whether that ends up to be a conventional explanation or not. When I went out bush with him whenever something strange was observed (a marking, tree break, etc) the first thing that he would do is try and think of a conventional explanation (as it was we observed a lot of prints but the vast majority was easily explained away as wallaby/roo prints). He doesn`t claim to have smoking gun evidence or definitive explanations - he simply likes to document “possible” evidence which he has come across in his neck of the woods. If people can come up with conventional explanations to his observations than he is happy to accept it.

As far as Night Walkers expert opinion as to why Tony`s case is a hoax I almost wet myself laughing. The guy is dead-set clueless. For example, Tony never said he saw the rock - he heard it. Everyone can tell the sound of a large rock falling nearby. You are kidding me aren`t you. How about you actually go out bush for once Night Walker pick up a large rock and throw it nearby. I guarantee it will make a very distinct noise! Secondly, it wasn`t pitch black you can see the dark twilight of dusk in the video. Remember, light conditions can better be determined by the human eye than a standard video camera. But he saves the best for last with his all-knowing rant that an accomplice was responsible… ha, ha, ha…. seriously your wasting your talents on the forums… you should look into a career as a comedian or something! All these conspiracy/hoax theories Night Walker – you are dead set starting to remind me of Mel Gibsons character on Conspiracy Theory! Clueless but amusing you are Night Walker!

nightwalker-yowies-netstalker.blogspot.com...




[edit on 9-6-2010 by SAB 8]



posted on Jun, 11 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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Fair enough SAB8. I accept many of your points, and I can understand your point of view as well as standing up for someone you possibly regard as a friend. Though I see it starting to become a little personal in some ways, so I will try and avoid this if I can. I guess it is hard to put an opinion to someones work in a way that they wouldn't take personally, unless a positive one, though I have tried as much as I could. I have always maintained that my findings amount to an opinion, no more. I have been at pains to point out that I could be wrong. I have also mentioned that I could not call this a hoax, because in the end I can't.

Surely if someone freely and intentionally puts a video on you-tube for appraisal with accompanying claims, it doesn't seem so unreasonable that some may scrutinize it, possibly even form an opinion on it. This is an alternative/conspiracy website, a lot of claims are put forth and studied here with people often going out of their way to look further. No one is required to agree. Occam's razor is often a favourite here. It was titled as a definate "yowie encounter", after all. As opposed to "strange/ unknown/ possible yowie encounter". This points to conclusions being formed, regardless how many "I don't know's" are spoken. Whatever beef you have with oz nightwalker, it might be best kept between yourselves. With all due respect to both, I'm not interested. I have nothing against either of you, or the originator of this video.

As per researchers/enthusiasts, I don't subscribe to the notion that any effort should be regarded highly, simply because an effort was made. Perhaps wrong of myself, but thats how I feel. Though I do agree anyone research as they see fit, as long as I am not required to have a glowing view of it by default. I don't class all research as nonsense. Perhaps I see the attitudes/conclusions of some hard to understand, methods also. There does seem a (growing) trend on you-tube that I find very iffy, not only where this subject is concerned. This lends itself to same in some ways, IMO. As always just an IMO. When it comes to the "new age" theories, the only interest I have left is in studying the habit they have of forming cults.

I will just have to take your word on the "too shaken up to return" bit. It does seem strange that Tony did after all go out on his own, in another area that he says is known to be active with Yowies, the same weekend. There also seemed much gratitude to the conclusion that little aliens were in the video "cloaking" themselves, yet I wonder if he has enhanced, analyzed or scrutinized it? Have you? Seems worth doing, yet he seems actively disinterested in this and appears not to have even watched it all that closely (as per his comments). It seems to me, serious research should be more likely following an assumed geniune encounter.

I appreciate the difficulty in going to out of the way places alone. I have been to the location of Tony's encounter alone. As was mentioned 12km down Tableland Rd. on l/h side. I tried as best I could to find the exact area going by what was shown in his video. This was difficult, as he seems very reluctant on his site to go into any more detail than the superficial. It would have been helpful to have more to go on. This was in an area that I figured was where Tony visited, either way it would probably be close. I tried to re-enact the video, waiting for nightfall to return etc.

I realise the fact that I found nothing out of the ordinary means little in the end as to whether Yowies inhabit the place.

There are some who, while possibly still open minded, are at the same time skeptical of some of what is put forth on this subject for good reason. It seems a little too easy to dismiss all contrary opinion as coming from lazy, skeptical people. Some (myself included) have been around longer than many researchers appear to have been, with an awful lot of time in the bush, often in what has become supposedly modern day "yowie hotspots". In this way it shouldn't be too hard to understand taking an interest when people appear to be frightening others away from past times others have enjoyed all thier lives. Though I'm certainly open to the possibility that Yowies might exist, or I wouldn't even bother looking.

I have studied the video endlessly, tried to put the circumstances together where relevant, and visited the site. The best I can do with the resources i have. Yet I am in no way a researcher. Out of curiosity, have you studied whatever you can around this affair in depth or detail? Leaving aside whether you know/trust Tony, just take things on their merits as you find them. Did you go to the site under the same conditions to see if yowies were there? I can understand if you have simply accepted the word of someone you know and have talked to.

If differing opinion offends, I am sorry. If you can show me where I am wrong, with more than a simple difference of opinion, I will cede your point. If you can point out anywhere I seem to be too personal, it wasn't my intention. Point it out and I will rectify it. I have tried to understand your points the best way I can and accept your position without necessarily agreeing.

I hope that's enough at this stage.


[edit on 11-6-2010 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 01:35 AM
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Hi Cognito

It seems a few feathers have been ruffled. My criticisms were mainly targeted at Night Walker and in regards to keeping my opinions of him to myself perhaps you should have mentioned the same thing to NW at least a dozen posts a go. You seemed quite content to let him go ahead and attempt to tarnish people`s reputations based on false assumptions and poor investigation. If NW is going to come onto forums and attempt to falsely discredit researchers than I am going to continue to voice my opinion as members of this forum deserve a balanced and TRUE account of the situation. You are attempting to come across as neutral, but your criticisms of “yowie researchers” and even support of NW`s opinions do not reflect neutrality!

In regards to it being personal you are exactley right. I`m sure if you were continually attacked and falsely accused of being a hoaxer on forums across the net than you too would be taking it personal! How can one not take it personal?

In regards to your views on investigating a claim. I would agree that you do not necessarily have to go the full hog to make a worthy contribution. However, if you are going to declare a case hoax and then totally tarnish a persons reputation, then as far as I`m concerned you had better have investigated the case thoroughly. That includes met and interviewed the witness, go to the site, research the area, its background and on and one. NW has declared Tony (and many other people) a fraud and hoaxers all from the comfort of his own armchair.

Cognito you seemed to be massively caught up with the whole "researcher" concept. To me the word researcher differentiates one from an enthusiasts and implies a higher level of commitment to the subject! Now I know that does not define a researcher in the strictest sense of the word. We are not scientists and I for one do not have a Bachelor of Science majoring in Yowie Studies. However, we do attempt to conduct research into the subject (and yes, some do it better than others). You must remember that no one has been backed by the CSIRO to conduct scientific research into the phenomena. Every “enthusiasts” conducts investigations based within their own constraints, be that financial, time, resources, suppport, education etc etc. That being the case there needs to be a bit more constraint in criticism and understanding of people who are willing to go out and look for evidence (or do research in an attempt to better understand the phenomena). At the end of the day yes you can be critical, and yes you can have a differing opinion or point out some questionable findings. What annoys me though is that many people are critical based on minimal investigation and/or only have partial insights into the case. If people haven`t put the effort to find out as much as they can than I think they should be careful in casting criticism.

In reply to your query about my follow-up of the video: Yes, I went to the area (minus Tony) and basically did the same thing as you. (Incidentally I have been to that part of the BMs on numerous, numerous, occasions as well as other spots within the BM). I have actually talked to Tony and we have organised to go and do a follow up investigation (or at least a look around) at the exact site of the encounter at some point in the near future. One thing you have to keep in mind though is that we both have employment and family commitments – not to mention financial and resource restrictions which limit what we can do. That being the case we have had to wait until we can both organise a date where we are both available to go to the area in question. Now the site of the encounter isn`t just down the road – your looking at about a 6-7 hour round trip! In regards to Tony going out alone to other areas, yes he does, but often will stay within certain distances of his car and he never goes out alone at night – not at this point anyway. The area that he is going to now is not as dense in vegetation as much of the BMs are. Hence, its not quite as an intimidating area to investigate in.

In regards to your lack of experiences in “hotspot” areas it has been my personal experience (and what I have learnt from others) that you often need to spend a lot of time in an area. Sometimes, you may get lucky and find or encounter something just on a day trip, but I personally recommend staying overnight (or multiple nights if possible) at locations. That is just my personal opinion – others may differ.

In regards to dismissing “New Age” theories I think its best to keep an open mind. If you look at the past history of mankind than many “New Age” beliefs, science fiction and mythology have often turned into science fact. I think it can be dangerous at times to lock yourself into a certain belief system as to what is and isn`t possible. I think humanity at this point in time has a very limited understanding of the universe and its workings. That being the case I think people should tread with caution in regards to belief systems!

Finally, in reference to the “alien claim” I think your are referring to Road Runner`s work on You Tube and his findings on some of Tony`s videos. Neither I nor Tony have analysed the video in detail as we don`t have the software (at this stage) to do so – other than basic media files. It is not so much a lack of interest, more a lack of resources! As I have previously mentioned, there are restrictions into what we can and can`t do. At some point in the future I hope to go back and have a look over the videos in detail. I guess that’s the beauty of sharing work though websites like You Tube and forums such as this. Other people who have the capibilities that you don`t can look at things in depth and present their findings. I`m slowly but surely building my collection of equipment but this is a work in progress. What do I think of Roadrunners findings? I find it interesting but obviously it cannot be presented as ‘smoking gun’ evidence. The problem with obscure images or blobsquatches is that they can never be presented as outright evidence. Its just to hard to say yay or nay, so you are often left with “I don`t know for sure”. Is it an effect of pixulation? is it pareidolia? Or is this how these things may actually appear? Is this blurring (often partially transparent) image demonstrative of an unknown technology or science? You see where I`m going. Many times you are only left with speculation and speculation is not conclusive evidence. However, one thing I will say though is to outrightly dismiss such a possibility would be (as far as I`m concerned) naïve and foolish. Truth is often stranger than fiction!


[edit on 12-6-2010 by SAB 8]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by srsen
So i think i'm getting a little Google Earth happy, but whatever, I have another map that's worth discussing.



The area in question is the Wentworth Falls sighting. I have highlighted a region with a yellow circle.

This area seems to be the only route to gain access to the 'gorge' region without having to scale the cliffs to get down there.

I am pretty happy with the assumption that Yowies use cave networks to navigate the area and avoid the high cliff faces, but also think that at times they may need to traverse the landscape on the surface (cave flooding or similar circumstances could cause this need).

If this is the case, the area highlighted in yellow would a seemingly perfect way to reach the valley/'gorge' floor. Hence this area would be a great spot to look for Yowies and/or evidence of their existence.

(This is based on the assumption that the Yowie's main territory would be the area bordered by the high cliffs and plateaus. The valley or 'gorge' is fairly remote despite it's proximity to the highly 'touristy' areas up high on the plateau (Katoomba, Three Sisters, etc). Just throwing some ideas out)


SAB8, welcome and thanks for registering with ATS to contribute to this thread. There is a lot of misleading information out there and I thank you for helping us clear up any apparent misconceptions.

Can you please give me your opinion on the above post by Srsen as you are familiar with this area?

edit to add: Also I'd be very interested to know if you've had any first-hand encounters with yowies and if so, would you mind telling your story here??

[edit on 12-6-2010 by heffo7]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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Here is an interesting 4 part series I found called "Bigfoot - Best Evidence". I believe that these are very similar creatures to our Yowie.

This is No. 3. The very last comment that one scientist gives is the most interesting IMO.

www.disclose.tv...


[edit on 12-6-2010 by heffo7]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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My apologies... there are actually 5 short clips:

No. 1: www.disclose.tv...

No 2: www.disclose.tv...

3 already posted earlier.

No 4: www.disclose.tv...

No. 5 here: www.disclose.tv...

Brought up some very interesting points and also some of the same conjecture already raised in this thread.



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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Holy crap! I hadn't seen this before...

www.disclose.tv...

The Comment below this video probably says it all:

"The Yeti de Bourganeuf was investigated by two men of science. They both concluded it was a genuine cadaver. Of what they weren't sure, but it was a real creature.

Unfortunately, no other scientists would examine the body."

I wonder what happened to it! Is this proof that these creatures exist?

edit to add: Damn It's a Hoax... had me going then!

perso.wanadoo.fr...[/url] ]
The frozen mannikin of Bourganeuf
In 1997, what looked like a new version of the affair of the frozen man (this cadaver of a frozen hairy man shown in the US fairs, which Bernard Heuvelmans was able to study in 1968) occured... in France !

It was indeed a hoax, and amusingly, our Belgish friends of the ABEPAR (which publishes the journal Cryptozoologia) are (unvolontarily) responsible. Emmanuel Janssens Casteels, animal sculptor and a collaborator of the magazine, relates in the June to August 1998 issue of Cryptozoologia that two friends of him have helped people who wanted to make a giant copy of Bernard Heuvelmans's frozen man :

"In fact, it was a sculpture made with sponge rubber on which hairs of horse tail have been pasted. The eyes have been simply bought to a provider specialized in taxidermy."
Of course, a crazy story was associated with the "show" of Bourganeuf, whose creator had obviously read Bernard Heuvelmans's book.

More details on the French page.

References :

DEVILLETTE, Anita
1997 Bourganeuf : un yéti dans la ville. Limousin Magazine, n° 402 : 66-68 (mai).

HEUVELMANS, Bernard
1974 L'homme de Néanderthal est toujours vivant. Paris, Plon.

JANSSENS CASTEELS, Emmanuel
1998 L'homme congelé de Bourganeuf : la solution de l'énigme. Cryptozoologia, n° 25-26-27 : 40-41 (juin-juillet-août).

JEAN, Gérard
1997 La chose dans la glace. Limousin Magazine, n° 402 : 69-70 (mai).
1997 Sur la piste de l'abominable homme des neiges. Anomalies, n° 3 : 17-25 (2° trimestre).

www.cryptozoology.com...


[edit on 12-6-2010 by heffo7]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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Just a quick reply at this stage.

Heffo I will get back to you next week in regards to reports on and around the area. Haven`t got the time to give a detailed reply at this stage.

Also just a quick note - this is not the first time I have heard reports of rock throwing on Kings Tableland. Seems it might be a trait for this area.


[edit on 12-6-2010 by SAB 8]



posted on Jun, 12 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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Hey, im not as familar on the Yowie as I am Bigfoot (Which I still need to learn lots about)

Are there any video's that perhaps show an actual Yowie? Or what is supposively a Yowie?

Cheers



[edit on 12-6-2010 by FoxMulder91]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by SAB 8
 


Thank you SAB8. A very good post and a good attitude, even if I haven't been swayed. I accept your vouching for credibility though at the same time I realize you are defending a fellow researcher/mate.

I don't necessarily care what people call themselves (researchers/hobbyists etc). Only that they stick to fact or make it obvious when they are putting forth speculation. To simply be honest and without wishing to cause offence, from the videos I have seen of Tony's I completely disagree that the most rational explanation is always considered first. I see much the opposite at times. I will point out examples if you like.

Though perhaps it might be better to amicably agree to differences of opinion on this affair, as I doubt we'll sway each other. I see no need to anyway.

I have no problem with you or oz nightwalker. Though you did continually mention him, in a post adressed to myself. This seemed confusing. I simply have no interest in your beef with each other.

I'm not sure why you would think I have never camped for any length of time in the Blue Mountains. I have the impression from your post that you are quite youthful, though could be wrong. Which is neither here nor there. Just something fresh and enthusiastic about your post, nice in itself, gives this impression. Can I ask have you ever seen a yowie, unambiguosly, without anything that could leave doubt?

As for the new age angle, perhaps you might have a wrong impression. I actually looked to this in hope of answers to personal experiences that were unexplainable amany years ago. This opinion comes from too many decades of first hand experience. Roadrunner might be a well meaning fellow, though I would ask that you study things the best way you can by yourself. Then tell us what you think. I agree, it isn't "smoking gun" proof


Though I also thank you for your contribution, and look forward to future posts.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]



posted on Jun, 13 2010 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by FoxMulder91
 


www.google.com...:en-US
fficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

[edit on 13-6-2010 by -Blackout-]



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 03:47 AM
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[edit on 15-6-2010 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]



posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by FoxMulder91
Hey, im not as familar on the Yowie as I am Bigfoot (Which I still need to learn lots about)

Are there any video's that perhaps show an actual Yowie? Or what is supposively a Yowie?

Cheers



[edit on 12-6-2010 by FoxMulder91]


Have a look at any of the videos on youtube posted by yowiehunters:

www.youtube.com...

Some of these interviews are spine chilling stuff, no denying that the interviewees are credible witnesses IMO. Enjoy!

edit to add: I saw somewhere a picture that Dean Harrison posted of a yowie standing on a embankment looking down at him. Can anyone help me find that picture and post it here?

[edit on 15-6-2010 by heffo7]



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum
 


Hi Cogito

Wow. This is actually a bit of a surprise. I was expecting people to come on here and vent ignorant cynicism as occurs on other forums like UM. Incidentally forums like UM are not even worthy of serious discussion as it is so heavily biased. The people involved with that forum try to give the impression that they are genuine in attempting to find answers, but unfortunately they are not. It is simply an avenue for members of the sceptic society to spread ridicule and personal attacks on people who attempt to seriously investigate the Yowie phenomenon. But it looks like ATS has managed to hold onto some very worthy contributors! Congratulations Cognito, one of the few people I have come across who is sceptical yet has managed to remain respectful, objective and open to different ideas. You have presented yourself well.

Yer I see where you are heading with the rationale explanation approach. Although I didn`t say it was the first consideration. In fact, it is often considered later upon reflection. This is more reflective of Tony`s personality rather than a purposeful attempt to hoax or manufacture material as others seem to think. He is a character and as has been previously stated he isn`t claiming to be a scientist or expert... just someone with a passion for the phenomenon. Again, if I had a dollar for every time he has concluded an initial observation or video with "I don`t know" or "I can`t be sure guys" than I would have a tidy sum sitting in front of me. Why would a person make the effort of conducting a hoax or manufacturing evidence and then spread doubt into a viewers mind by stating that he "doesn`t know" or highlighting the possibility that it could have a conventional explanation??? That doesn`t make sense to me. If one was to orchestrate a hoax than the hoaxer`s opinions would be reflective and supportive of the hoax. You would not cast doubt on your findings if you were conducting a hoax! It would defeat the whole purpose!

In regards to conducting my own investigations and forming my own opinions - I already do. Just because I support another enthusiast or associate myself with an organisation does not mean I share their exact beliefs or viewpoints. In fact, I can recall many exchanges which have led to a difference of opinion and/or viewpoint.

Me youthful? No unfortunately I am not "quite youthful" (although I wish I was). I have been investigating the subject approaching 20 years and have got more seriously involved from around 12 years ago. There is a young guy on some of Tony`s videos of whom I know that you may be thinking I am - but that is not me.

Have I ever observed a 100% bonafide, flesh and blood yowie? No I haven`t. Have I had strange (often unexplainable) experiences in various fields of the paranormal? YES I have.

Sorry, about my assumption in the camping department - I actually misinterpreted your statement. My bad.

Lastly, just another shout out to NW (this bit is not directed at you Cogito)! Your current absence from this forum NW is very telling and reflective of your personal character... or lack of! It seems without the backing and support of sceptic society cynics attempting to fight your battles for you, you conveniently disappear into your little cave and wait for the cavalry to come to the rescue. As I said, very reflective of the type of person you truly are!

Excuse the editing - I am using a laptop which has a small keyboard. As a result I`m bumping wrong keys everywhere!!!! lol

[edit on 18-6-2010 by SAB 8]

[edit on 18-6-2010 by SAB 8]

[edit on 18-6-2010 by SAB 8]

[edit on 18-6-2010 by SAB 8]


[edit on 18-6-2010 by SAB 8]



posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by SAB 8
 


Don't be too quick to build me up SAB8. I did actually post castigating you for some comments I saw on another forum. Then I thought better of it, as I realised I have no way of knowing whether they were directed towards this thread. It never helps to assume. Even if it was, I realise it's not such a big deal. The best thing is to take you as I find you on here, you seem genuine enough and pleasant.

I actually find Tony comes across as likeable in his videos, in a "what you see is what you get" kind of way. Let's just say I find his methods different to what I would go for and leave it at that. But that's what makes the world interesting I guess, viva la difference.

I might not be as closed minded and stuffy as you think. I can tell you this is honest, I would like to view the video and be completely convinced, in fact I was excited at first, but I guess I'm a tough audience. You have helped clear up some misconceptions and I thank you for that. I have an interest in the area more than anything, though not so much yowie related. I have observed some strange things in the region. Maybe I will get to tell you about some of them one day.

It is nice that we can discuss without bickering. I find the whole idea perhaps frustrating to see a claimed encounter put on you-tube as a finale. To me it should be a prelude, though I take note of your explanations for such. I would be thinking more along the lines of....wow, now I know something is there, I will see if I can find out what it is and put on you tube.... It's hard for me not to be skeptical for this and other reasons. Different ways of thinking I guess.

I don't mind Oz Nightwalker. Though I understand you have some history. It would be nice if we could at least tolerate each others opinion, we don't have to agree. In fact it helps to be broadminded here. Have a look around, you will get to talk to many aliens


I do look forward to future posts.





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