Oklahoma lawmakers and Tea party discuss forming a militia

reply to post by VintageEnvy


Sarcasm only goes so far, you might want to take the time out go visit a militia if they do exist your area. There are plenty of radicals and nuts out there but that doesn't classify every militia. But you would rather believe what you believe because it makes sense to you. Thanks for your very MSM reply.

reply to post by skunknuts


"... anyone about to morph from a pussified wannabe McVeigh to an actual copycat murderous traitor. "


(1) Timothy James McVeigh was not from Oklahoma ., he was from New York . So , How does this equate with civil servants reporting anyone here in Oklahoma ?

(2) Terry Nichols was from Michigan , Also not from Oklahoma .

(3) Michael Fortier was from Arizona , not Oklahoma .

(4) McVeigh insisted that all appeals on his behalf be dropped and asked to be executed . I have trouble equating this with 'pussified' .

" ... pussified wanna be ..." would appear to be a poor choice of words on your part .

To show you how ridiculous they are , McVeigh was not from Oklahoma anymore than those terrorists were from New York .

McVeigh targeted Oklahoma ., the terrorists targeted New York .

Could you , with a good conscience , use the phrase "...pussified wanna be terrorist ..." if the subject of this thread had been New York instead of Oklahoma ?

Think before you speak ?

Proud to be a SOONER .

reply to post by okbmd


I wasn't talking about Sooners, specifically, just pussified McVeigh wannabes, in general, wherever the scum resides. Basically just like this guy (they cheered, by the way):



Violence is wrong, that's not what the constitution is about.



Best,
Skunknuts

[edit on 4/12/2010 by skunknuts]

reply to post by skunknuts



I never encouraged violence... I merely gave my opinion as to how far apart we have come and the possible consequences of polarization. I really don't want a war/conflict/uprising any more than the average person. And yes, these groups aren't as big as some say....

However, John Brown had less than 30 people... The Border Wars of Kansas-Missouri of 1858-59-60 consisted of small irregular but aggressive groups... many small town southern militias consisted of 20-100 men...

reply to post by skunknuts


I must ask the question, but you are free not to answer. What would make you take a stand? To place your own life at risk? To face that which you may only survive by your own doing, a bit of good fortune and faith in those around you to do their best to persevere?

Originally posted by Ahabstar
reply to post by skunknuts

 

I must ask the question, but you are free not to answer. What would make you take a stand? To place your own life at risk? To face that which you may only survive by your own doing, a bit of good fortune and faith in those around you to do their best to persevere?

I am ready to take a stand if it comes to it. There are many armed citizens of this great country that want to preserve our country. Libertarianism is closer to Liberalism than Authoritarianism. If Palin, Bachman, Pence, Beck, Limbaugh and the others are the true leaders of this movement, I am willing to fight it (if they make me). Until then, I fight, as I did to elect the current constitutionally-elected government in power. Sore losers that speak of freedom, while holding closeted authoritarian views are one the threats, imo. Actually, they are being used by the real powers that be. Believe me, I, and many others, will fight, if we must.

Best,
Skunknuts

P.S. It won't come to it, I pray

[edit on 4/12/2010 by skunknuts]

Oklahoma here I come!


A state sponsored or even officially recognized militia only one means one thing! Revolution!!!

reply to post by VintageEnvy


Are you #ing joking me?

REALLY?

Did you just go there?

You've got to be kidding me.

Does anyone else see what this person has just wrote?

Federal infringement has nothing to do with state government BIASES.

The statement you have just made is completely lunatic.

The federal government doesn't have a bias, they don't care if you're black, white, asian, hispanic, etc. They don't care if you're 20, 10 or 40. They don't care if you're hetrosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. They don't care if you're rich or poor. They have one purpose, to destroy your income and make you weak.

That is the WORST attempt at a derailment of a thread I've ever seen in my history of ATS. You should be removed from this thread, completely.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by skunknuts

 

I never encouraged violence... I merely gave my opinion as to how far apart we have come and the possible consequences of polarization. I really don't want a war/conflict/uprising any more than the average person. And yes, these groups aren't as big as some say....

However, John Brown had less than 30 people... The Border Wars of Kansas-Missouri of 1858-59-60 consisted of small irregular but aggressive groups... many small town southern militias consisted of 20-100 men...

Well good. I guess I might have misinterpreted your attempting to put in historical context w/ wishful thinking and glee. The civil war was bloody, the scar still bleeds, at times. Ripping it off, is not the answer. This is not the battle for which people think they would be fighting.

Best,
Skunknuts

reply to post by skunknuts


I too fear that the dark days are soon to be upon us all. There will be a winning side. But no clear winners when this time comes. I think we may make it out of 2010, but in 2011 all bets are off.

Some see it from political angles, because that is the easiest way to understand it. To fathom what is going on. Some see it as personal sovereignty, but even that is not the full of it. Even I don't see the whole picture and can at best describe a nebulous desire to be left alone. That the deciders have asked for too deep of an involvement. A commitment that can not be given.

Maybe the best way to describe it being asked for a trust that every bit of your gut tells you not to give.

Originally posted by skunknuts

Originally posted by hawkiye
Well it sounds good but legislators are all talk and no action. This could be just another means to make people feel like they are doing something but in reality render them benign. If they are serious all they need to do is pass a bill reinforcing the county Sheriffs authority to arrest Feds violating the constitution and ordering them to do so!

Can you please show me where in the almighty constitution there is an authority of the good ol' boy sheriff to arrests feds. of which to reinforce?? Didn't they try that when the big bad feds. had to forcefully integrate the schools?? You people hate this country.

Best,
Skunknuts

Don't need to show you and your answer is typical of the dumbed down American populace. There is no delegation of power in the constitution giving the federal government any authority over local sheriffs, states, or the people of the several states. The Constitution is a restriction on the federal government not the people and has nothing to do with the people.

And to back that up since I know you wont be able to overcome your programming Sheriff Jay Printz and Sheriff Richard Mack won a land mark Supreme Court case on exactly that premise!

"Not only do the enactments of the early Congresses, as far as we are aware, contain no evidence of an assumption that the Federal Government may command the States' executive power in the absence of a particularized constitutional authorization, they contain some indication of precisely the opposite assumption."

"We warned that "this Court never has sanctioned explicitly a federal command to the States to promulgate and enforce laws and regulations," id., at 761-762."

"And perhaps most important in the decision Scalia even goes so far as to detail who is responsible to keep the federal government in their proper place, if or when they
decide to go beyond their allotted authority. In doing so he quotes James Madison, considered to be the father of our Constitution, “The local or municipal authorities form distinct and independent portions of the supremacy, no more subject, within their respective spheres, to the general authority [federal government] than the general authority is subject to them, within its own sphere.” (The Federalist # 39)

Thus, the federal government has no more authority to compel the states or the counties to do anything, no more so than the Prime Minister of Canada has. "

www.law.cornell.edu...

[edit on 12-4-2010 by hawkiye]

So how are the militias going to combat apache helicopters? Do they have surface to air missiles?

Do you guys really want this country to look like the videos we see of Iraq and Afghanistan?

I don't.

Nor do I trust these new revolutionaries to establish any kind of new government.

Despite what many state....I believe we can fix the current situation. Crappier days ahead....most likely and don't see how we can avoid it. Interest rates WILL go up. They have to.

And let's say there are 10,000 to 100,000 militian members in the US (Just a guess, have no idea)....do you think the others 330 million people are going to just let these people do whatever the hell they want? Do I really want Billy Bob or C-Bass resetting the tree of liberty?

UM NO. I'd rather fix what we have without breaking down the entire system.

Despite the anger at government...I'm willing to bet that in some regard...99 percent of all Americans are dependent upon it to live...whether they are receiving tax cuts, tax credits, or an INCREASE in taxes.

Yeah...you can count me out of the militia movement. I'd fight for my family...but not for someone else's belief in what they think the Constitution should be.

If people would realize that the reason our country's economy is deteriorating is because of our TRADE POLICIES...we'd all be in better shape right now.

But instead people argue about crap that's not even reality nor feasible.

reply to post by David9176


Right on the money!

Fair Trade not Free Trade (which means Free for them not for us).

Solutions are the key... God, sometimes I feel I am going to have to run for something to be heard. It is not difficult to fix it!

See Solutions Below:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here are my plans. (Note: I am making up the titles)

Rule #1 America First: For the people (Of the USA) By the people (Of the USA) Don't forget where your allegiance lies (elected officials).

Rule #2 ALL PRODUCTION / MANUFACTURING of materials used for these Government Stimulus / Public works projects which are being paid for (eventually) by the U.S. taxpayer money must be manufactured IN the United States of America. (Otherwise everything would be outsourced to China)


Step One: Federal Mortgage Refinance Act of 2010

Any private citizen's primary home (primary residence only) mortgage can be refinanced by the Fed or Government at 0.5% with a flat closing cost of $2,000.00 which can be added to the loan / payoff amount. ($500.00 goes to Federal, $700.00 goes to State, $500.00 goes to city or county, $300.00 goes to the institutions processing the paperwork.) No assessments, simple change in financing on whatever you currently owe. Banks receive a flood of money in "pay-offs" as each mortgage is refinanced through the Fed / Govt or fannie

Mortgage holders will save almost 50% of their current mortgage payments and THIS will highly boost spending and the economy. (Thus create jobs as spending dramatically increases and provide a host of short term jobs for the mortgage brokers / reps. States and Local revenues will receive the necessary influx of revenues to get past this rough times.

Step Two: Energy Independence Act of 2010

Federal Money is used to build a HUGE facility in New Mexico to grow Algae oil for domestic liquid fuel consumption. Closed system algae bio-reactors can produce 20,000 to 100,000 gallons per acre per year (for reference corn provides 18 gallons an acre per year, over a 1,000 times less fuel).

This would be a huge public works project requiring pipelines from the ocean needed to reach New Mexico for water. Glass can be made at location (sand) and glass vertical tube closed system bio-reactors constructed to include processing and refining facilities. Any extra water can easily be put through solar distillation and piped to your city of choice as clean water. Rail lines, barracks, roads, support, etc would also be required and the whole thing could be managed by the military with 6 month assignments of active duty personal to oversee the operation and civilian workers bused in and rotated (similar to working on oil platforms currently). Through constant expansion, 1/10 of the state of New Mexico would be utilized to harvest and process the product (carbon neutral liquid fuel).

Rules would have to be in place that the "product" is domestic use ONLY and would not be available to paper traders to speculate on price, etc. Once this is up and running as a NON-PROFIT entity, the cost of the product would be production cost + X% with the X% going to Federal Revenue. Once domestic needs are met, any excess would be sold on the open market.

Garbage Plasma facilities set-up at ALL major landfills. (No need to explain, see Youtube.com

Implementation of "solar-cell" easy-roll roofing materials massed produced in the U.S. (only by law) utilizing current Welfare (now work-fare) recipients who work 20 hours a week as well as "voluntary" prison labor (at their own secured facilities). Voluntary meaning that general prisoners (not your nutcases) can work if they want to for say $2.00 an hour paid in US savings bonds that they receive upon release (better to get out with a few thousand $ than nothing).



Step #3: America FAIR Trade ACT of 2010

Probably won't get great response on this one but common sense should tell everyone we cannot maintain our standard of living if the Chinese (and others) have a very unfair competitive advantage if we do not levy FAIR tariffs on imported goods. We cannot compete with labor cost of $6,000 a year on average vs. Our $45,000 a year. Get a clue and levy FAIR Tariffs!



Step #4 Welfare / SSI Disability home-worker / teleworker program.

Yeah, you may have a bad back that keeps you from heavy lifting or you may be a 3rd generation welfare mom but it doesn't matter, YOU can work from home now processing orders / paperwork and taking queued inbound phone calls. I am sure we can find quite a few Federal / State or even local government work that needs to be done that is currently outsourced to a foreign call center or similar.



Step #5 New Farming Subsidies Act

Pay farmers (well farming corporations nowadays) NOT to grow food? Are you crazy, have them grow seed and food at a fair price that is sent to a government cannery which cans the food and is utilized by Government entities (military, school lunch programs, etc.)

Step #6 Container Inspection Act of 2010

ALL shipping containers entering the U.S. will be inspected. An inspection fee will be assessed (whatever price / tariff needed to cover the cost) on all containers entering the US or any cargo coming in via land from Mexico / Canada. We will call it the "price of doing business" in the U.S. and we can employ 10's of thousands of people to make this happen. This need to happen for the sake of "National Security".

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by infolurker

Right on the money! Fair Trade not Free Trade (which means Free for them not for us). Solutions are the key... God, sometimes I feel I am going to have to run for something to be heard. It is not difficult to fix it!

RUN PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need people will are willing to tackle this problem.

I'm constantly talking about it in my posts but it seems like shouting in a quiet room. Instead everyone wants to talk about absurd Obama theories.

I believe WE CAN fix this country! Since we buy almost everything from foreign countries...it's instant tax income to go towards our deficits. Will it raise prices? Yep. But American small businesses and new manufacturing sectors will emerge here...which means jobs and better wages...benefits!!!

It's a MUST. This is something we should all be fighting for. Our standard of living is crumbling and this is one of the main reasons why.

ALso...it's 1000 percent Constitutional. Why aren't we protecting our economy people?!?!?!?!?!?

We need to do this!!!

Stop the bleeding while we still can.

I don't know where you stand on other issues...but I'd nearly vote for you on this one issue alone.

[edit on 12-4-2010 by David9176]

Originally posted by skunknuts
Can you please show me where in the almighty constitution there is an authority of the good ol' boy sheriff to arrests feds. of which to reinforce??

I have a hard time understanding how you could be so close, yet so far from understanding what this county is based upon. If you had read the Constitution you would have seen the Tenth Amendment. But your very questioning shows that you have not examined the issue.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

That’s it. Period. If the Constitution does not give the Federal Government a specific power then it does not have it. Anything else that they do is de facto illegal! And furthering that, any Agents of the government acting in an illegal manner on behalf of said government can be arrested for – dramatic pause – breaking the law!!! (See aforementioned Constitution a.k.a. supreme law of the land)

The U.S., literally, metaphorically and symbolically, is based upon a pyramidal structure: the base and strength rests upon the ground. That means that the strength of the U.S. comes first from local rule in the communities. Then rule of the counties. Then rule of the states and lastly of the Federal Government. The Federal Government is intended, by design, to be the weakest authority. This was well thought out, designed and intended.

The ruling entity that was the most remote was supposed to be the weakest. This was a direct result of a backlash against ‘foreign rule’. The founders of this country understood that those so far removed from immediate issues could never understand those immediate concerns of the base citizenry. (Read the Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers to understand why)

As to why local sheriffs can “arrest feds. of which to reinforce”: Printz v. U.S., 521 U.S. 898 (1997), is a good place to start. There are many other cases but this one stands as a modern examination as to why the Federal Government does not have the right to implement its rules upon the States and Counties. Granted, it does not specifically state that locals have the right to “arrest feds.” But it shows the rationale in which local authorities have the final say so about what goes on in their communities. That is the way it should be.

reply to post by David9176

So how are the militias going to combat apache helicopters? Do they have surface to air missiles?

Some of them are veterens who can fly Apaches, as I have said this won't be peasants in robes with AK's

Do you guys really want this country to look like the videos we see of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Of course not but it is those who think they can fix it by doing the same things that we have been doing for dacades (and that got us here) that will make it inevitable.

Nor do I trust these new revolutionaries to establish any kind of new government.

Well then do nothing and see what happens....

Despite what many state....I believe we can fix the current situation. Crappier days ahead....most likely and don't see how we can avoid it. Interest rates WILL go up. They have to.

Ok so whats your plan? This is more then interest rates going up, this is full blown economic melt down currency collapse etc. the whole nine yards!

And let's say there are 10,000 to 100,000 militian members in the US (Just a guess, have no idea)....do you think the others 330 million people are going to just let these people do whatever the hell they want?

Well it's a lot more then that at least a million (see my thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...). However as to your question the answer is yes the hundreds of millions have done nothing to fix it as long as the have American Idol or the game on and a beer they could care less so why should anyone expect them to do aything about it?

Do I really want Billy Bob or C-Bass resetting the tree of liberty?

Gee not influenced by the media stereotypical BS much are ya... Sigh!

UM NO. I'd rather fix what we have without breaking down the entire system.

Great so whats your plan? Anything different then what go us here in the first place?

Despite the anger at government...I'm willing to bet that in some regard...99 percent of all Americans are dependent upon it to live...whether they are receiving tax cuts, tax credits, or an INCREASE in taxes.

So what? Are you trying to justify the theft? The point is it is unsustainable and will collapse regardless.

Yeah...you can count me out of the militia movement. I'd fight for my family...but not for someone else's belief in what they think the Constitution should be.

Well you can count most people out of the media false construct of the militia. Funny how they manage to make a mockery of the noble institutions that built this country and even make things like truth a bad word. Bottom line is if you fight a lone chances are yu eill not last long. The militia is not a bad word as the media would have you believe it in fact is the only lawful military in this country.

As for thinking what the constitution should be, that is another media construct. It is pretty straight forward and we have many of the founders writings, we know what they meant and intended, it's not that hard for anyone who knows history.

If people would realize that the reason our country's economy is deteriorating is because of our TRADE POLICIES...we'd all be in better shape right now.

The economy is melting down because of our monetary system. All fiat currencies in history have collapsed and ended badly. It is a mathematical certainty. They only last about 40 years. We are at the end of ours.

But instead people argue about crap that's not even reality nor feasible.

From your post as far as reality goes I'd say you have some research to do. Reality is not what you hear in the MSM news channels. It is cold hard facts most of which gets ridiculed in the media if even brought up and the same ridicule parroted by folks even here who don't understand. That vast majority of Americans are in for a very rude awakening since most of them are still trying to ignore the signs of impending collapse all around them. The time to learn self sufficiency is now because it will be a necessity in the very near future! There is no place else the Fiat system can go it is mathematically built in!

reply to post by VintageEnvy


I don't remember the Constitution saying anything about anyone having the right to marry.

I don't think sexual orientation is in it either.

Feel free to support an amendment doing so though.

[edit on 13/4/10 by MikeboydUS]

Militias helped build this country, so it is to bad when "knowitalls" jump in an start in with the hatred and wise cracks.

Would it not be interesting if every state had a police force AND a military force? Honestly that MIGHT be a step in the right direction HOWEVER we as a group would surely fail the idea up and turn it into some monster thing that is far from its intended purpose. But really, a state led militia to protect against "the man". Whew what a thought!


EDIT
I actually just looked around a bit and found out that 20 or so other states have a militia. However, I do not think this is necessarily the same really as this sort of thing was never mentioned in regards to any of the existing militias.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by A-E-I-Owned-You]

Originally posted by VintageEnvy
People from the Oklahoma LEGISLATURE are wanting to start up a militia??
They feel it's that big of an emergency, they think 'their rights are being taken away'. Where were they when gay people were paying (and still are) their taxes to their state but weren't able to get married.

I'm sick of hearing this outrageous fallacy. It seems like regardless of how late to the punch people are in sticking up for the constitution you should be happy and congratulate them that they have decided to do so. But instead you complain about it.

During the Obama bankster bailouts were you telling Republicans that they should happy that bankers were getting filthy rich at the expense of everyone else because "Bush did it too"?

I'm sorry but hypocrisy by Republicans doesn't make having a double standard okay... its still a bad thing. So please, drop it. Both hypocrisy by Republicans AND the double standard of these kind of postings you are writing are BOTH bad reasoning.