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Turkey To Challenge Israel, Support Hamas

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posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by plumranch
 


The question is whether it will be compatible with western interests.
From the looks of it so far, the answer is no.

It then gets even more interesting, with Turkey shifting away from the west and to the east, what role America will play in Turkey, especially NATO. This also ties into the issues it has with Greece and Cyprus, both members of the EU and Greece obviously part of NATO.

Greece is more or less the catalyst that was needed(more like created) for Brussels to take away more sovereignty from members, will it also be the catalyst needed for the formation of a true European armed forces?

And to those who think that this has nothing to do with the topic, it has everything to do with the topic, because it's part of the bigger picture.
The topic is about Turkey and Israel and their relationship, well if you understand where Turkey is headed at the moment, you will understand why this other stuff is relevant to the discussion.




posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:25 AM
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Nightmare...total nightmare

My girlfriend and I were going to go to Turkey for a holiday in the next few weeks, but I don't want to be there when it kicks off!!!

Is the timeframe for definite, ie, will it actually happen this month?
Or will the events of North Korea's misdemeanor cause the UN to concentrate on it's next move there?

Actually...to be fair, it'll all happen at once probably anyway - I just want to be out of the room when the SHTF.

Much love...



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by BLV12
 





It then gets even more interesting, with Turkey shifting away from the west and to the east, what role America will play in Turkey, especially NATO. This also ties into the issues it has with Greece and Cyprus, both members of the EU and Greece obviously part of NATO.


Turkey is setting itself up as the regional hegemony (major regional power) to be dealt with on any given issue. All nearby powers, the EU, Russia, the Baltic states will be affected. The challenge will be to limit this hegemony as much as possible to maintain a reasonable balance of power.

Obviously, an ongoing situation!



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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Just as an aside,does anyone know how Turkey got its name?
Are they the only nation on earth named after A BIRD?



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by Dr Conspire
 





Just as an aside,does anyone know how Turkey got its name? Are they the only nation on earth named after A BIRD?


The country already had the name Turkeye in English by 1275 before the bird was known in the Old World! Turkey:


'Turkey was named for the Turks, believe it or not. Turk can mean either 'a citizen of the modern state of Turkey' or more broadly, 'an individual of the Turkic-speaking people.' The many Turkic languages are spoken not only in Turkey but also in a large area of central Asia and in northern Siberia. The real question is the origin of the name Turk. The word is essentially the same in many languages, including English, Turkish, Arabic, and Persian (Farsi). It probably comes from some Turkish root, but there's no consensus on which one. It may be one root meaning 'strong' or 'vigorous' (according to the American Heritage Dictionary) or it may be another meaning 'the people' (according to the Encyclopedia Americana).



There are a couple of other theories of how the country got its name, both wrong. The first has it that the country was named after the first leader of the Turkish Republic, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. But like most Turks, Mustafa didn't have any surname at all until 1934, when he chose Ataturk ('Father of the Turks') for himself. He had already given the country its western-influenced name Turkiye several years earlier. During the period of the empire, the Turkish name for the country had nothing to do with the Turks. Rather, it was named for the Osman (Ottoman) dynasty that ruled it. Another theory has it that the English named the country after the bird, as a taunt. But the country was already called 'Turki' or 'Turkeye' in English by 1275, hundreds of years before the bird was known in the Old World.


[edit on 21/5/10 by plumranch]



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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A very comprehensive reply cheers for that.
But still they are the only nation on Earth whose name is the same as a Bird, even if it is not named after the bird.
I wonder how many puns the English press used during WW1?
Turks get eaten by Anzacs
Tommys attempt to break Turkish neck
Turkeys" forces stuffed
Churchill cant stomach any more of Turkey
Turkey heads off invaders once and for all
A very strange name.



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by BLV12
It then gets even more interesting, with Turkey shifting away from the west and to the east, what role America will play in Turkey, especially NATO. This also ties into the issues it has with Greece and Cyprus, both members of the EU and Greece obviously part of NATO.


But you assume what you say is correct, which is not. Turkey remains committed to EU membership and continues to change domestic institutions to that end. It is not in Turkey’s interest (both economically through the close dependencies with EU states and militarily through their integration with NATO) for them to shift away from the West. Turkey may be focussing more on Middle Eastern affairs which is good because Turkey offers a voice of moderation. Iran is a major nation in the Middle East so it makes sense for Turkey and Iran to come to an accommodation, although one wonders whether this is more to do with the Kurds than any sense of shared values. That said, Iran is a direct competator and a threat and both nations hold a different world view and outlook - Turkey being a democracy for a start!


Originally posted by plumranch
Turkey is setting itself up as the regional hegemony (major regional power) to be dealt with on any given issue. All nearby powers, the EU, Russia, the Baltic states will be affected. The challenge will be to limit this hegemony as much as possible to maintain a reasonable balance of power.


I agree, and Turkish leadership will be vital in knocking some sense into much of the nonsense that has plagued the Middle East for many years. In the great scheme of things Turkey is a balancing influence and everyone will be effected if they can bring positivity to the table.


Originally posted by BLV12
Not even going to bother replying to the fools above who think they are experts on matters they only just realised existed.


I don’t think I should let this one go as I think you may have been referring to me. If you state opinionated and ill-sourced anti-Turkish gibberish, like:

> “... the Israeli's alone will mop the floor with Turkey” and

> “At the end of the day, if Turkey tries anything, it will be torn a part in a more violent way then Yugoslavia was”, and as you get more excited about a war between Israel and Turkeywhich you seem to crave and be longing for

> “Israel will call on Greece to back it up, and Greece will”

You should sit back and appreciate that you are not the expert you purport to be.

The facts are that Turkey is merely asserting themselves against Israel, something that many nations do through actions and words. It’s no big deal. The OP covers a flotilla of ships to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza. This flotilla will have supporters from many nations – it is not just a Turkish thing and it won’t lead to the war that you seem to want!

Regards



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by paraphi
But you assume what you say is correct, which is not. Turkey remains committed to EU membership and continues to change domestic institutions to that end. It is not in Turkey’s interest (both economically through the close dependencies with EU states and militarily through their integration with NATO) for them to shift away from the West. Turkey may be focussing more on Middle Eastern affairs which is good because Turkey offers a voice of moderation. Iran is a major nation in the Middle East so it makes sense for Turkey and Iran to come to an accommodation, although one wonders whether this is more to do with the Kurds than any sense of shared values. That said, Iran is a direct competator and a threat and both nations hold a different world view and outlook - Turkey being a democracy for a start!


LOL the last part made me burst out laughing.
Turkey is not a democracy, not in the sense western countries are democracies. Turkey is more like a hybrid between a military dictatorship and democratic government with limits..the limits are they can do what they want, as long as they don't piss off the military over lords, because if they do, they get removed from power. It has happened several times.

Well, you may think I'm wrong, but your just another outsider who reads a few articles and then thinks he has become an expert.

Turkey is not interested in joining the European Union any more.
They were, because they saw it as a way to expand their economy and gain prosperity.
But they have become fed up with the EU's games, because at the end of the day the EU doesn't want them.
France doesn't want them, they don't view them as European.
Germany doesn't want them in, they want to give them a "privileged partnership"..the Turks don't like this, and is part of the reason why they are fed up.

Turkey offering a voice of moderation is almost as funny as your last line above.
Moderation you say? They have taken the hard line against their so called ally Israel. They are behaving like fanatical Islamists, because deep down, that's what they are.




I agree, and Turkish leadership will be vital in knocking some sense into much of the nonsense that has plagued the Middle East for many years. In the great scheme of things Turkey is a balancing influence and everyone will be effected if they can bring positivity to the table.


More LOL's.
Turkey is not going to bring balance or sense to the problems in the Middle East.
It's idea of "mediating" is to lash out at Israel publicly, and to side with Iran and oppose sanctions, and then go and make under the table deals.

You are extremely naive.



I don’t think I should let this one go as I think you may have been referring to me. If you state opinionated and ill-sourced anti-Turkish gibberish, like:

> “... the Israeli's alone will mop the floor with Turkey” and

> “At the end of the day, if Turkey tries anything, it will be torn a part in a more violent way then Yugoslavia was”, and as you get more excited about a war between Israel and Turkeywhich you seem to crave and be longing for

> “Israel will call on Greece to back it up, and Greece will”

You should sit back and appreciate that you are not the expert you purport to be.


I've got more of an understanding of the region I come from, then some random outsider who reads a couple articles, watches FOX, CNN, and the rest of the propaganda media networks, and then goes around the Internet making an ass out of him self by trying to tell people that they don't know anything about where they come from.

If you have no understanding of the region, which you don't, then keep quiet. Go talk about Obama, tea party's, and whatever else is going on in America that concerns Americans, and leave topics you don't have a clue about to those who know what they are talking about.

What you have quoted above, completely misinterpreting what I have said, was in reply to someone else on that specific matter.

And if you think multiple forces wouldn't align against Turkey if war broke out between Turkey and one of those forces, you are more naive then I could have imagined. It's a widely known fact that if Turkey starts a war with Greece or Cyprus, it will be fighting on multiple fronts and not just against Greece or Cyprus. Once again, since you don't understand the region, keep quiet.



The facts are that Turkey is merely asserting themselves against Israel, something that many nations do through actions and words. It’s no big deal. The OP covers a flotilla of ships to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza. This flotilla will have supporters from many nations – it is not just a Turkish thing and it won’t lead to the war that you seem to want!

Regards


And why do you think they are asserting them selves against Israel, while buddying up with Iran and Hamas and Syria? Hmm...

Hm, are you even aware the Israeli/Jewish lobby in America which has for years been working for Turkish interests(paid, of course), has now abandoned Turkey? This is basic knowledge you should have if you are going to sit here and try and tell me that I don't know anything.

You're so naive mate, seriously take some advice and leave this topic to those who actually know what they are talking about.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 12:41 AM
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Turkey is Gommer in the bible and is in the Gog-Magog alliance against Israel. This war is coming this year people, Wake up the bible tells us all we need to know.

Israel is smart to cut off any weapons to them. Turkey is on a fast track out of NATO and all because Europe proper knew better then to let them into the EU.

This is all really going down just like Kathleen Keating wrote out in her books Torn Sky, Torn Sky Project Jerusalem. She predicted this exact thing with North Korea starting major attacks on the South as Iran and Israel go at each others throat. Watch for major attacks on the Vatican by Arab Terrorist when the conflicts erupt.

China is telling lil Kim what to attack, don't be fooled. They are thinking we will be weakened so much that they can take us ALL down. Thankfully Russia will see the light at the end of the tunnel and join our side and set China on fire with a massive joint nuclear strike.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by BLV12
LOL the last part made me burst out laughing.


One wonders whether people are laughing along with you or at you.


Originally posted by BLV12
Turkey is not a democracy, not in the sense western countries are democracies. Turkey is more like a hybrid between a military dictatorship and democratic government with limits..the limits are they can do what they want, as long as they don't piss off the military over lords, because if they do, they get removed from power. It has happened several times.
Well, you may think I'm wrong, but your just another outsider who reads a few articles and then thinks he has become an expert.


If you cared to review the EU requirements you will see that Turkey has been required (and has been undertaking) reforms, including the link between the civil government and the military. Your analysis is out of date.

Turkey is a secular democracy with a majority Muslim population. In the 2007 Parliamentary elections the AKA (the Justice and Development Party) got 46.5% of the vote, the CHP got 20.9% etc., etc... There was no question of electoral fraud or abuse and Turkey is recognised as a functional democracy.


Originally posted by BLV12
Turkey is not interested in joining the European Union any more.


Sorry, wrong again. In fact as recently as 10 May 2010 the Turkish Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Davutoglou) was in Brussels engaged in talks on the very subject. The meetings concluded that there had been good progress towards Turkey fulfilling prerequisites for EU membership, especially the Short Term Priorities outlined in the Accession Partnership agreement 2008.


Originally posted by BLV12
Turkey offering a voice of moderation is almost as funny as your last line above.
Moderation you say? They have taken the hard line against their so called ally Israel. They are behaving like fanatical Islamists, because deep down, that's what they are.


Historically Turkey and Israel have been close. In the recent past Turkey has become increasingly critical of Israeli policy in Gaza. Turkey’s position reflects the position of most other nations – including the EU. Turkey is not behaving like “fanatical Islamists” and to suggest as much is silly and exaggerated and merely reiterates your low opinion of Turkey which is clouding your judgement.


Originally posted by BLV12
More LOL's.
Turkey is not going to bring balance or sense to the problems in the Middle East.
It's idea of "mediating" is to lash out at Israel publicly, and to side with Iran and oppose sanctions, and then go and make under the table deals.
You are extremely naive.


Thanks, but I’m not naive. Turkey has a lot to prove and if that means becoming more proactive in affairs in their close proximity (being closer to Gaza than Iran) then that is all well and good. A Turkey which begins to take notice of what is going on around them is a good thing and if that means Israel is publically “read the riot act”, then so be it.

On the basis that it “takes two to tango” it should be noted that Israel has also been airing their dirty linen in public and among other things, was forced to apologise for their humiliating treatment of the Turkish Ambassador BBC link to this and other stories re Turkish / Israel relations


Originally posted by BLV12
I've got more of an understanding of the region I come from, then some random outsider who reads a couple articles, watches FOX, CNN, and the rest of the propaganda media networks, and then goes around the Internet making an ass out of him self by trying to tell people that they don't know anything about where they come from.
If you have no understanding of the region, which you don't, then keep quiet. Go talk about Obama, tea party's, and whatever else is going on in America that concerns Americans, and leave topics you don't have a clue about to those who know what they are talking about.


... and it goes on and on...


Originally posted by BLV12
You're so naive mate, seriously take some advice and leave this topic to those who actually know what they are talking about.


You don’t know who I am, where I come from or what I read and it is crass arrogance to presume that you do. Just a pointer, but I’m not the American as you imply.

In your posts to date you have demonstrated a serious lack of understanding of Turkey, the geopolitics of the area and made remarks which are clearly clouding your judgement about Turkey, based on an obvious dislike of the said nation. If you cannot add anything to this thread apart from misinformed comments about Turkey and inappropriate statements against those who challenge what you have said then we will have to agree to differ, but please do so in a civil way.

Whatever you do, please stop fantasising about how Turkey will be destroyed in a war. Turkey is not going to declare war on Israel, Greece or the Isle of Wight for that matter and no one is about to declare war on Turkey.

Regards



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:40 AM
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Turks have no reason to start a war with anyone .

But if attacked , then it is a different story all together .

Israel's problem is not the Turks . It is with Arabs .

In fact many pregnant Israelis have been travelling to Turkey to have their kids born in Turkey so that they have a dual citizenship .

Current disagreements between the Turks & Israelis are not that important .

Oh , the Turks are the only people with their own agents in Mossad .

Let's not forget who the Khazar's were and who rules the roost in Israel .

It is in fact funny that the Greek nationalists can be so blind to facts .

Israel is going to attack Turks and Greeks going to join in ?

ha ha ha





[edit on 23-5-2010 by 23432]



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


You don't even know the ruling party, it's called AKP. A and P are on different sides of the keyboard, so don't even try the "typo" excuse.

This very tiny fact is just a highlight of what I've been saying all along, that outsiders like you go around acting like your experts on everything and everyone else and their country's, yet you wouldn't know the first thing about those country's without having to look them up first.


Outdated? LOL, it's what Turks are saying now.

The only one who is working with outdated information is you.
You are still naive and raw to the real world, so no hard feelings champ.

Come back when you understand things a little better.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by 23432

Turks have no reason to start a war with anyone .

But if attacked , then it is a different story all together .


Turkey is looking for war. No reason? Then why does it have territorial claims against a fellow NATO member, and why has it issued a casus belli? In case you still don't know what casus belli is it is the threat of war.



Israel's problem is not the Turks . It is with Arabs .


You can try and spread your propaganda but it wont work.
Turkey has made it self a problem for Israel, thanks to Erdogan and his Islamist party.



In fact many pregnant Israelis have been travelling to Turkey to have their kids born in Turkey so that they have a dual citizenship .


Sure they do. Turkey is a country with one of the worst infant mortality rates in the world, and people would leave Israel with it's first world health care to have babies in Turkey. Yep. Makes perfect sense.



Current disagreements between the Turks & Israelis are not that important .


No, not that important. Israel's government just felt like insulting your foreign minister as a joke. The Israeli/Jewish lobby in the US has turned against Turkey because it was bored.



Oh , the Turks are the only people with their own agents in Mossad .


Or, the only ones who feel they need to brag about it.



Let's not forget who the Khazar's were and who rules the roost in Israel .


Your point?



It is in fact funny that the Greek nationalists can be so blind to facts .


I'm no nationalist.



Israel is going to attack Turks and Greeks going to join in ?

ha ha ha




When was that said?
Learn to read posts rather then make things up.

Someone brought up the issue of a confrontation.
I simply gave an opinion, one that is likely.
If Turkey went to war with Israel, Turkey would be fighting multiple fronts.
If you think Greece wouldn't, then you have a lot to learn.
I'm not saying this to boast or show off or anything, I'm just stating reality.
If you don't like it, well, that's not my problem. Same goes for the other "expert".


[edit on 23-5-2010 by 23432]



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by BLV12
You don't even know the ruling party, it's called AKP. A and P are on different sides of the keyboard, so don't even try the "typo" excuse.


Yes typo, live with it. I don’t reference your typos. If that’s the only thing you can rail against then that's progress.


Originally posted by BLV12
This very tiny fact is just a highlight of what I've been saying all along, that outsiders like you go around acting like your experts on everything and everyone else and their country's, yet you wouldn't know the first thing about those country's without having to look them up first.


Like I said, try to be civil. I think that others in this thread can judge whether your views on Turkey are one-sided and opinionated with a lack of objectivity; after all, you keep talking about the forthcoming war when Turkey will be destroyed.

You should try not to let your mistrust and dislike of Turkey cloud your judgement, especially as both the Greek and Turkish governments are working so hard to rectify many years of mistrust and bad feeling. I would hope that better Greek / Turkish relations will lead to positive progress over Cyprus which is (as you know) one area Turkey must address as part of their EU membership prerequisites.

Regards



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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I am really sorry but this thread has no credibility .



We are suppose to deny ignorance and not spread it .



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by BLV12
 


Casus Belli = Obvious Spy

Casus means a SPY and Belli means OBVIOUS in Turkish language .



Dear Greeks , pls stop this nonsense about Turks wanting a war and expansion .

It ain't the TRUTH .



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by 23432
reply to post by BLV12
 


Dear Greeks , pls stop this nonsense about Turks wanting a war and expansion .

It ain't the TRUTH .


It is the truth no matter which way you try to spin the truth. Sorry.
The facts are simple.
Turkey wants to re-draw the borders in the Aegean Sea, in it's favor. Taking with it, many Greek islands, which are as far as International Law etc is concerned, sovereign Greek territory.
Turkey has issued a casus belli against Greece, a fellow NATO "ally", that if it extends it's territorial waters to 12nm(where practical) allowed under the Law of the Sea convention, that it will mean war.
Turkey claims "grey zones" in places which are Greek territory.
Turkey flies it's fighter aircraft into Greek airspace, into the Athens FIR without submitting the proper paperwork as required, and it also flies it's fighter aircraft most of the time armed over Greek islands that are inhabited, often doing mock bombing runs on villages and towns.
Turkey has tried at least twice to search for oil in Greek territorial waters. Once in the 1980's, which resulted in the Greek navy being mobilised in it's entirety and ordered to sink any Turkish ship in Greek waters without asking questions.
And once in recent years, which ended with the Norwegian company and ship they hired apologising to th Greek government because they were not made aware they would be entering Greek waters.

So we have motive, to change the borders in Turkey's favor, and we have hostile & aggressive actions trying to implement that change. The next step is war.

Like I said, pretend all you want, but the above is all factual information.



Originally posted by paraphi

Yes typo, live with it. I don’t reference your typos. If that’s the only thing you can rail against then that's progress.


Oh, I could go through and destroy you posts. But I've got better things to do then sit here and debate whether I am right or wrong with someone who is clueless to the big picture.




Like I said, try to be civil. I think that others in this thread can judge whether your views on Turkey are one-sided and opinionated with a lack of objectivity; after all, you keep talking about the forthcoming war when Turkey will be destroyed.


When did I say Turkey will be destroyed? I never commented on who would win or lose that hypothetical, & briefly posted, war scenario.
I simply pointed out that if Turkey does something stupid like start a war with another country in the region, it will have multiple fronts opened up against it, for the simple fact that it is not a very well liked country in the region. I wonder why that is? They've now alienated Israel, and are slowly turning America against them. If you want to keep believing that Turkey is a peaceful country with good intentions in the region, well that's your prerogative.
But I, as a Greek, have been holding out hope for years, like every other Greek, that someone will come to their sense in Turkey and stop this bs between both country's, because at the end of the day it is Turkey with the aggressive policy and hostile actions not Greece. Past Greek governments have suggested to go to the Hague, but Turkey refused.

I'm fed up with their hostile policy and actions in the Aegean, and their attempts to create a separatist movement in Thrace with the Turkish minority. The Turks there are not the only Muslims, there are Roma and Pomaks, who have nothing to do with Turkey, who are also muslim, yet according to Turkey, these people aren't Roma or Pomak, they are Turk.

I've got an idea. Tell us what country you are from, and I can create a hypothetical situation with one of it's neighbours. Put your self in others shoes before running your mouth.



You should try not to let your mistrust and dislike of Turkey cloud your judgement, especially as both the Greek and Turkish governments are working so hard to rectify many years of mistrust and bad feeling. I would hope that better Greek / Turkish relations will lead to positive progress over Cyprus which is (as you know) one area Turkey must address as part of their EU membership prerequisites.

Regards


Well, see above for your answer to the first part.
Second, as I said before, you are naive.
The governments are working hard to rectify many years of mistrust and bad feeling? ROFL.

Firstly, the only reason Turkeys PM came to Greece and talked out of his backside with false promises and misleading statements, was because they view Greece as being in a weakened state at the moment with the economic situation. They view this as their chance at getting what they want, without war.

Are you even aware that while blabbering about cutting spending(ie cutting procurements is what the Turks are after from Greece), that Turkey has no intention of cutting it's own spending and procurements? Erdogan said prior to coming to Athens, that Turkey will continue with it's weapons programs.

And you think I've got misplaced distrust for the Turkish government?


Like I said numerous times, you are naive and you have no idea about the subject you are posting about.

If I'm coming across as having an attitude, well good, I'm sick of some lame outsiders who think they know everything because they've read a few articles all of a sudden and go around trying to tell us this and that are wrong or right about our country or region, and that we don't know anything.

Stick to thing's you understand in the future.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by BLV12
Oh, I could go through and destroy you posts. But I've got better things to do then sit here and debate whether I am right or wrong with someone who is clueless to the big picture.


Give it a rest. This thread has been ruined by your anti-Turkish opinions, however well founded you may think them to be - and I know they have foundation, so I am not out to discredit what you say.

The thread was about the shift of politics between Turkey and Israel and should not have given voice to your well rehersed dislike and mistrust you have against Turkey, based (I assume) on your own worldview and experience.

It is bad form to accuse people of being clueless and naive because they hold a contrary view than you, but then that type of behaviour is often associated with a poor ability to debate and back up one's position with fact.

Regards

[edit on 24/5/2010 by paraphi]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by paraphi
Give it a rest. This thread has been ruined by your anti-Turkish opinions, however well founded you may think them to be - and I know they have foundation, so I am not out to discredit what you say.


If it's coming across as anti-Turkish, well that's because it is, anti-Turkish government in fact. Anti-Turkish foreign policy & hostile actions.
You go live on an island in the Aegean and have your home buzzed by F16's weekly while they perform mock bombing runs on your village or town. Of course you wont, and you live in a peaceful region of the world were such things don't happen to your country, so you can't have an understanding of what is going on and how people feel. So don't even try and paint me as some anti-Turkish bigot.



The thread was about the shift of politics between Turkey and Israel and should not have given voice to your well rehersed dislike and mistrust you have against Turkey, based (I assume) on your own worldview and experience.


Yes, that's what the thread is about. But part of that discussion is also how Turkeys relationship with Israel, its detereoration, will and has affected relationships with other countries, and possible outcomes.

If you can't see the link, well, tough titties my friend. But Israel, Turkey, and Greece all see the link. Do you think it's a coincidence that as soon as Turkey told Israel to shove it and wouldn't allow them to train with their airforce in Turkey, that Greece and Israel started getting close, and Israel now trains with the Greek air force? In 2008 it was Israels biggest exercise outside of it's borders, with over 100 F16's and F15's taking part.



It is bad form to accuse people of being clueless and naive because they hold a contrary view than you, but then that type of behaviour is often associated with a poor ability to debate and back up one's position with fact.

Regards

[edit on 24/5/2010 by paraphi]


Well, the link is bleeding obvious. I'm someone who actually comes from the region and understand and know whats going on. You on the other hand are not. Maybe you should listen more instead of trying to be a wise guy?

And fyi, Turkey has made "threats" to Israel if Israel stops the "aid fleet" headed for Gaza.

How does that fit in with your attempt to paint Turkey as a mediator and what not?

The sooner people wake up and realise the nature of Turkey, the better off the west will be. There are a few million Turks living in western Europe, a ticking time bomb in every sense.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 11:47 PM
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Oh, btw paraphi, since you are so adamant that Turkey has honest and peaceful intentions, here is a bit of an FYI...

During Erdogans visit to Athens, he said that Turkey does not 'attack' other countries.

A few days later, about 20 Turkish F16's spent over 6 hours bombing Northern Iraq.


You see, you really are out of your depth here. The double speak from Turkey may fool those who aren't knowledgeable on the regions politics, but those who are, well, we don't fall for it.

And now, Erdogan has burnt Turkey's bridges with Israel, and is doing the same with America. Turkey siding with Iran, Syria, Hamas.

Keep thinking that Turkey will be part of the western sphere for ever, because the time is fast approaching when it will pick a side, and it wont be our side, the west.

Turkey was used for it's strategic position. In turn, Turkey used the west for support and military hardware. This relationship is coming to an end. Only the blind can not see it.

And this isn't anti Turkish. This is someone talking about the facts, about what's happening out there. Me being Greek should have no relevance.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by BLV12]



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