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Crazy skies in the UK - Chemtrails? Contrails?

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posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Northwarden
This is a majour aspect of Morgellons, let alone respiratory diseases.


talking about respiratory deseases, i live in geneva switzerland now and there are chemtrails everywhere- through the summer here you rarely have a cloud in the sky. my missus went to hospital cos she had an asthma attack (she hasnt suffered with it since ive known her which is about 4 years) the doctor told her that geneva has one of the highest rates of infant born asthma 1 in 3! coincidence maybe?




posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 04:55 PM
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Whew, front row seats eh? That would be an exciting place to live.
On a personal note, I hope you're investigating natural remedies for the asthma, if your health agency is anything like ours.

In general ...

As for the chemtrail/contrail issue, I consider it awareness, not fear-mongering. I'm not insensitive to sufferers, see it has a limited effect on the US population, and hope no one gets it, myself included. It's a conspiracy site, and no one's going to admit to chemspraying. This is the, or a place for it.


[edit on 13-4-2010 by Northwarden]



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Why do chemtrail fans take all these photos of them? Why keep collections of them? Why spend so much time outside looking up?



I would also like to know the answer to that. Instead, maybe they should dedicate some of that time to researching meteorology? Just an idea


At very least I think they're pretty beautiful, regardless of what they are. Spending 2 seconds taking a picture with my ever-present camera is something I enjoy doing - I take lots of photos, and not just of the sky. If I'd wanted to be a meteorologist I would be, and I wouldn't be here asking you lot questions now would I? :p

As for spending so much time looking up... what's wrong with that? From what Oz said earlier it's what he does for a living? : )

I spend a lot of my time 'looking up' because it's bloody gorgeous up there - you should have a look sometime Kandinsky, it might help you understand where us sky-watchers are coming from? The view from the top of our building is brilliant - I'll post some photo's here one day.

Oz - I'm STILL trying to find the original photo's as they're date/time stamped in the file name. I have A LOT of photo's and the ones I posted are resized images striped of their original info. I'll do my best to find them tho.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by eightfold]



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by Northwarden
 


Evenin, thanks for your replies.

One thing tho - if this thread shows anything, surely it shows that even the existence of 'chem' trails is heavily disputed and (as far as I can tell), unproven in any objective scientific way. Until someone jumps in a plan, flies up there and gets a sample behind one of the 'spraying' planes, there's absolutely no way to prove it either way. I find the whole subject interesting and they definitely make for some spectacular skylines (especially around sunset), but I don't make definite claims about what 'they' are, because I don't know.

Given the unproven nature of them, don't you think it's a bit of a stretch to claim they're causing morgellons? Morgellons as an illness is also heavily disputed - it's not clear that the 'disease' even exists. How can something that may or may not exist be the agent that causes an illness in people that may or may not exist? You must be jumping over, under and through some serious logical hurdles to come to the conclusion you have. Where's the objective evidence?



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Northwarden
This link outlines the concerns, and draws upon the scientific evidence of leading chemtrail researcher Clifford Carnicom.

www.healthfreedom.info...

Worth review is the following, it claims that there are four government military programs which involve spraying. Even if you are a skeptic, please tell me why anyone would invent this. If you are not sure, here are probable causes. If you are certain you're right about all chemtrails being contrails, then debunk these.

www.holmestead.ca...
[edit on 12-4-2010 by Northwarden]


Interesting stuff in those links, but really the purpose of the thread wasn't to ascertain the global existence of spraying programs - there's obviously stuff going on - the UK gov admitted they were spraying biological weapons on the population in the 60's, plus there are numerous countries that publicly cloud seed - they're clearly spraying stuff up there.

My point was specifically about the photos that are in the original post... are those types of clouds, which I see all the time, created from normal contrails, or is there something else going on?



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by eightfold
 




300.0 9240 -51.5 -59.5 38 0.04 40 34 312.6 312.8 312.7
286.0 9548 -54.3 -61.3 42 0.03 40 33 312.9 313.1 312.9
285.0 9570 -54.5 -61.6 41 0.03 40 33 313.0 313.2 313.1
273.0 9844 -56.3 -65.3 31 0.02 38 36 314.2 314.3 314.2
260.0 10152 -57.5 -68.2 24 0.02 35 39 316.9 316.9 316.9
250.0 10400 -58.5 -70.5 20 0.01 40 41 319.0 319.0 319.0
233.0 10843 -59.0 -72.9 15 0.01 40 44 324.7 324.7 324.7
224.0 11091 -59.3 -74.3 13 0.01 32 46 327.9 327.9 327.9
222.0 11147 -59.6 -74.6 13 0.01 30 47 328.2 328.3 328.2
218.0 11261 -60.3 -75.3 12 0.01 30 53 328.9 328.9 328.9
217.0 11289 -60.3 -75.4 12 0.01 30 53 329.4 329.4 329.4
210.0 11495 -60.0 -76.2 10 0.01 40 54 333.0 333.0 333.0
203.0 11707 -59.6 -77.1 9 0.01 40 43 336.7 336.8 336.7


The temperature (second column) is cold enough for contrails to occur, with little or even no humidity, and the wind speed (eight column, in knots) is high enough to disperse the contrails, and encourage saturation to encourage them to spread out and persist.


Thanks LOADS for your replies Oz, much appreciated. I hope you entertain my possibly ignorant questions....

What do the other numbers mean, and how does the weather balloon thing work? Do they just collect temperture/humidity/wind speed data, and if so what is the data used for? Plugged into the crap models that make the crap weather forecasts perhaps?


I read in one of your other replies that 'every weather station in the world' was about to release a balloon - that's a lot of balloons! Is weather monitoring coordinated worldwide?



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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A big Dito OP....I've been doing a Nibiru thing and while taking photos of the sun at dawn I notice 2 planes making the same patterns in the sky....One flying from North to South and the other flying East to West. It was around sunrise 6am-ish.
Ill get a pic this morning....if I can drag myself up lol.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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One thing tho - if this thread shows anything, surely it shows that even the existence of 'chem' trails is heavily disputed and (as far as I can tell), unproven in any objective scientific way. Until someone jumps in a plan, flies up there and gets a sample behind one of the 'spraying' planes, there's absolutely no way to prove it either way. I find the whole subject interesting and they definitely make for some spectacular skylines (especially around sunset), but I don't make definite claims about what 'they' are, because I don't know.

Given the unproven nature of them, don't you think it's a bit of a stretch to claim they're causing morgellons? Morgellons as an illness is also heavily disputed - it's not clear that the 'disease' even exists. How can something that may or may not exist be the agent that causes an illness in people that may or may not exist? You must be jumping over, under and through some serious logical hurdles to come to the conclusion you have. Where's the objective evidence?


You bring up an amazing point. Why don't planes fly in the wake of the trails with research equipment and see what is up there. I've considered it too, and don't know why some concerned citizen with a little "money to burn" doesn't do this. I don't know why, it's the obvious answer, and it's crossed my mind too. The thing is, to those who have researched this, they figure it's unneeded. To them, the proof already exists, based on particulate reports and the symptoms/diseases arising. Perhaps this has been done and we haven't located the info yet.

I will point out the mold and fungus growth that even excessive contrails cause, as would any effort to block out the sun. As for the Morgellons issue showing up on your thread, it's kind of like those octopi that show up on the ice during a Detroit game. It's part of the territory if you want to talk about chemtrails these days. Spraying is evidently a very valid way to spread an epidemic, and a whole lot of people who have heavily researched the issue claim a strong connection between the two which cannot be dismissed as irrelevant. Burden of proof is actually quite shifty between feet now, in other words, prove it's otherwise. I imagine a food agent which people buy could be the culprit, or perhaps poisoned water, but I'd rather heed what I heard about a billion-dollar-a-year spraying program taking place, that ticks leaders off because operation Gambit keeps getting delayed by whistleblower sites.

As for Morgellons not being a disease, are you aware there is a Morgellons Institute operated by the FDA? There's your official proof. It's real, and that wasn't needed to prove it exists. Science belongs to everyone, not just the people with the papers. Observation, honest witnesses, and valid experiment controls are all that's required. Give the layman due credit. There are high school educations and plenty of CSI shows to watch.
The objective evidence is in the sites I provided, and from some highly educated individuals who care a lot about the sufferers - and for the record I believe I ran a pretty straight course in my logic through this whole matter.


Interesting stuff in those links, but really the purpose of the thread wasn't to ascertain the global existence of spraying programs - there's obviously stuff going on - the UK gov admitted they were spraying biological weapons on the population in the 60's, plus there are numerous countries that publicly cloud seed - they're clearly spraying stuff up there.


Yup, say on please. Then we'll understand that there really is a self-perpetuating agenda behind the masks. On whatever you like, I'm not into arguing about Morgellons, just raising the awareness levels.



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by eightfold
 


hey i took some local photos for you and stuck them up but I also got the local spinning black orb in it as well.... anyways the pic isn't that close up but if you have the right photo shop you may be able to zooooooooom in..
anyways the photos in the leaded window are take off and the other ones are landing contrails

interesting stuff
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by jumpingbeanz
 


Just posted in your thread about the orb in your photo, it's a bit odd isn't it? I quite like that you were taking photos of trails and accidently photographed some kind of odd shape in the sky while you were at it, nicely done.


On topic... the trails you posted are pretty cool, maybe post them in here too? Best resize them first tho, otherwise the mod-father will bitch-slap you! The main one has tiger stripes almost, it's a bit odd. Maybe the pilots enjoying making patterns in the sky?



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by eightfold
 



how do i resize them nobody wanted to tell me
but wanted to tell me off



[edit on 13-4-2010 by jumpingbeanz]



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 07:17 PM
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I'll U2U you about resizing.

Probably best not post single line off-topic replies in here tho?
The Mods might eat you.


Post your photo's! It'd be cool to see what the ATSers already here make of them, your question is essentially the same as mine. Someone should start a gameshow - "Chemtrail or not chemtrail, you decide!" - with a judging panel of OzWeatherman, Phage and a weekly guest expert.


[edit on 13-4-2010 by eightfold]



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by eightfold

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by eightfold
 




300.0 9240 -51.5 -59.5 38 0.04 40 34 312.6 312.8 312.7
286.0 9548 -54.3 -61.3 42 0.03 40 33 312.9 313.1 312.9
285.0 9570 -54.5 -61.6 41 0.03 40 33 313.0 313.2 313.1
273.0 9844 -56.3 -65.3 31 0.02 38 36 314.2 314.3 314.2
260.0 10152 -57.5 -68.2 24 0.02 35 39 316.9 316.9 316.9
250.0 10400 -58.5 -70.5 20 0.01 40 41 319.0 319.0 319.0
233.0 10843 -59.0 -72.9 15 0.01 40 44 324.7 324.7 324.7
224.0 11091 -59.3 -74.3 13 0.01 32 46 327.9 327.9 327.9
222.0 11147 -59.6 -74.6 13 0.01 30 47 328.2 328.3 328.2
218.0 11261 -60.3 -75.3 12 0.01 30 53 328.9 328.9 328.9
217.0 11289 -60.3 -75.4 12 0.01 30 53 329.4 329.4 329.4
210.0 11495 -60.0 -76.2 10 0.01 40 54 333.0 333.0 333.0
203.0 11707 -59.6 -77.1 9 0.01 40 43 336.7 336.8 336.7


Thanks LOADS for your replies Oz, much appreciated. I hope you entertain my possibly ignorant questions....


Your welcome




What do the other numbers mean, and how does the weather balloon thing work? Do they just collect temperture/humidity/wind speed data, and if so what is the data used for? Plugged into the crap models that make the crap weather forecasts perhaps?


The numbers are
Column 1- Air Pressure (in hPa)
column 2- Height (in metres)
column 3- Air Temperature (in degrees celsius)
column 4- Dewpoint (in degrees celsius)
column 5- Relative Humidity (in %)
column 6- Mixing Rate (not important with regard to us)
column 7- Wind direction (in degrees)
column 8- Wind Speed (in knots)
column 9, 10, 11- Not important for us

The data is used for a range of things, including general forecasting, avaiation forcasting (for freezing level, jetstream location, turbulence likelihood, contrail persistence likelihood) etc).

So what actually happens is we release a weather balloon at 23z (or 23:15 GMT time to be exact) and also at 11:15z (or 11:15 GMT). This is a world wide standard time, meaning all balloons in the world are released at the exact same time. The reason for this is mainly for forecasting purposes, so you can see what weather is coming, and you can see which layers of the atmosphere are becoming cold and humid enough to indicate the possible strength or severity of a weather system.




I read in one of your other replies that 'every weather station in the world' was about to release a balloon - that's a lot of balloons! Is weather monitoring coordinated worldwide?


Well the upper air network is a world wide network. It has to be so that Mean Sea Level Analysis' and synoptic charts can be created. Forecasts in general are done country by country, and state by state

[edit on 13/4/2010 by OzWeatherman]



posted on Apr, 13 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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Here's the connection to tonights other Morgellon Threads. The first is the better.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Last octopus; As you were



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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Okay....contrail or chemtrail?


Yesterday the sky was very busy for my remote northern California location....

Is it common for a contrail to do a barrel-roll?



*sigh* Just checked my post with a preview and the pics are chopped off both sides, defeating my purpose of showing you these photos (and others). So....if there is no way around this, please check out my album--they at least show up whole there.....
media.abovetopsecret.com...&action=list_photos&album_id=12725




posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Neytiri
Okay....contrail or chemtrail?


Contrail


Check out my gallery of other contrails here on ATS


(and yes, I am indeed a saddo who goes round constantly looking up at the sky and photographing silly clouds ......
)


[edit on 14-4-2010 by Essan]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:14 AM
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They're usually pretty bad over my house as well.. Quite interesting... If they are "contrails" than perhaps they should exist EVERY day as there are always planes flying over... Or as I take photos of 2 airplanes flying in the same path, 1 leaves trails that linger ALL day and eventually turn in to "clouds" while the other evaporates within a visible inch or 2 of the plane.... It doesn't take a PhD in physics to understand that something isn't natural...

I had intended to post some of my pictures on this reply but, apparently you can't post pictures on replies?!?!? Or maybe i'm too dumb to figure out how to do it!



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Ouroborus2012
They're usually pretty bad over my house as well.. Quite interesting... If they are "contrails" than perhaps they should exist EVERY day as there are always planes flying over...



No, it all depends on the atmospheric conditions - particularly temperature and humidity - which can vary considerably from day to day and even over altitude (so an aircraft at 31,000ft may produce a contrail but one at 33,500ft does not)

Try reading this for more info



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by Neytiri
Okay....contrail or chemtrail?


Contrail


Check out my gallery of other contrails here on ATS


(and yes, I am indeed a saddo who goes round constantly looking up at the sky and photographing silly clouds ......
)

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Essan]


LOL! It's been dramatic sky lately, and I can't keep my eyes off it either. We don't normally have so many trails in the sky. I've found it interesting that a day or so after a clear day with contrails the weather turns yuck and rains and blows. We just got over one of those storms, and this sky pictured is the aftermath. Must be wet up there.

What I find the most interesting in the series of pics is that one contrail that streaks across the sky, then blanks out for a section, before resuming like the craft got kicked in the tail and rolled, and all at cloud level, not high-sky thousands of feet up. When aircraft make contrails, aren't they usually consistent without sudden cessation of vapor? And then all of a sudden, there is the vapor again, stronger or lighter than before (can't tell which way the aircraft was going, so hard for me to tell if the gap came after the barrel roll or before). Just interesting stuff I wanted to share....




posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by Ouroborus2012
They're usually pretty bad over my house as well.. Quite interesting... If they are "contrails" than perhaps they should exist EVERY day as there are always planes flying over...



No, it all depends on the atmospheric conditions - particularly temperature and humidity - which can vary considerably from day to day and even over altitude (so an aircraft at 31,000ft may produce a contrail but one at 33,500ft does not)

Try reading this for more info


From that article:

If the contrail stops, then starts up again, creating a broken line, chances are the airplane flew through a dry patch.

Ummm...as wet as it's been, and as full of clouds and vapor as the sky *is* how would a "dry patch" up there even be possible? I can see if it's in the tens of thousands of feet up there might be--but this one is right down here with the lower clouds just a day after major wind and rain....



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