The Lost and Hidden connection between Religions

Originally posted by seagrass
If the belief that Ages take on Astrological psychology/energy/influence then a good predictor of the future would be to research Aquarius. It's meaning. How new religions will evolve and what we will choose to take with us as truth. Religion evolves and tells a story just like a good book. The evolution of religions is a natural thing. Just like everything else. With the introduction of Science into the mix, we are ever constantly adjusting along the axis. Someday the two shall meet, and we must reconcile. Both have and carry the Truth.

In a way I agree, but in some ways I think that happened a long time ago and it just hasn't filtered own. I recently read an amazing book by R Gordon Wasson entitled The Russians, Mushrooms and History. The copy I read was an 'illegal' photocopy. Only 512 copies were ever published. Wasson, spent half his life researching the book, but felt that his findings should only be available to the very few, hence the limited print. Not only that, he had it printed on the finest hand made Italian paper, bound in the finest leather, so only those of wealth could afford it and he left instructions in his will that it never be reprinted. Why? Because he did not feel the 'masses' could comprehend the enormity of what his work revealed.

On a side note, as a conspiracist, I found it all the more interesting that Wasson was the Vice President of J P Morgan for more than twenty years and had a most elitist outlook on what exactly the term 'masses' means. I have also read a few books by John M Allegro which shed even more light on the origin of Western religious belief systems, and in all honestly, it is my opinion that Zeitgeist is part of the same subterfuge forged by those that think we can't handle the truth. No one has successfully refuted Allegro's work, and while I do not agree with all his theories, his research is second to none, apart from maybe Wasson, but he never wanted me to read his work, me being one of the great unwashed, Allegro at least did.


[edit on 11-4-2010 by KilgoreTrout]

You should read Helen Blavatsky's, "The Secret Doctrine" - albeit a very critical book of Christianity and Judaism. Incredible reading. Very controversial. Author claims that the Catholic Church destroyed many of the competitive religions, and that there existed - at one time in the ancient world - a dominant universal religion.

Interestingly enough, Hinduism is the world's oldest religion. If you studied Hinduism and its sacred texts, I think you could find quite a number of similarities to many of today's modern religions. If you study Judaism, you certainly learn a lot about Christianity and Islam - as they are all Abrahamic religions. Buddhism, as I understand it, is an offshoot of Hinduism.

Originally posted by seagrass
Where is Saturn ruling Judaism. Tell me more. Saturn is an asshole. But we have to have restrictions if we are to have freedom..yes?

Sorry missed this before!

The Judaic sabbath is Saturday, Saturn gives it's name to Saturday, whereas in Christianity the sabbath is Sunday (as I am sure you know). Babylonian astrology was aware of the seven planets (seven is a sacred number in all Judaic/Christian beliefs), so it is known that Saturn was physically observable at that time. It is likely that the Jews were affected by the movements of Saturn at a particular point in time which created the schism over the Sabbath which is primarily the root of the dissension of the Jews from other Babylonians, ie they formed a cult that seperated them ideologically from others and embedded the belief of being 'Chosen'. Whether it occured prior to them arriving in Babylon or during their stay there is debatable as no written records exist or have been found. That is all I know. As yet

What a great thread !

The name Christ, krishna and kristos can easily be explained.
Our language. From Greek to Indian to English can all be traced back to the same beginning. Sanskrit was it called

As for Christianity and Islam. They are from the same Abraham Isaak and Jacob.
Yet it apears that Allah is a moon god.

The teachings fro christ are very similar to eastern ways.

The old testament was before the exodus completely based on the ancient Sumerian beliefs what is not really strange because Abraham came from UR. An ancient Sumerian city.

The story of Noah is the same one as the Gilgamesh epoch.
It is speculated that Enoch gave the orders to build the pyramids and later disappeared in to Greece as Artemis ( not sure )but it makes it alot more clear how Mozes could be an Egyptian prince.

Early Christianity was more of a spiritually based life like reincarnation was present in it

You say it looks like there is something to hide or to prevent.
The biggest example I can offer is that of the tower of babel.

We as a race were as one and we were heading for greatness.
We were stopped and we were changed we were no able to understand each other any more... Why ? I believe the bible actualy says something like this. we had to be stopped because if we would continue we would be capable of achieving the impossible. We are being kept out of the loop.

I'm coming back on this cause my head won't be up right much longer good night.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Fascinating stuff. I wonder how learning origins of mistranslations and variations on similar ideology can help in subterfuge? Get us angry make us do exactly what they want? Unite us and control us easier? Each new power had to have their own take on an old take. Fear.
Its the motivator.
What if the original story has been diluted so many times it makes no sense anymore?

reply to post by Jomina


The common root of all religions is the worship of the sun.

This is the religion of all of the mysteries.

To primitive man, the sun represented safety, warmth, food, etc... (Horus)

And the night represented danger, cold, death, etc.... (Set)

This metaphor is seen throughout EVERY religion.
Good and Evil. Zoroastrianism.

This was needed for the creation of agriculture, calenders and seasons, and it was therefore worshiped.
*see link to the Elysian Mysteries below.

Religion created math, calenders, and astronomy.
The priests who had this knowledge were initiated in ceremonies where they would communicate with god and then they would be reborn.

This idea of birth and death occurring in cycles (seasonal precession) is promoted when one ingests.....

MUSHROOMS.

These mushroom cults were the basis of all religions.

See this guy John Allegro.
And read his book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.

Or this guy Terence McKenna.
And read his book The Food of the Gods.

This is also the basis of Freemasonry, Mithrasim, and the Eleusian Mysteries.

The Vedas refer to Soma as being God. The flesh of God.

God in the flesh. Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Dionysus, Odin, Mithra, the list goes on and on and on.

Why do you think that psychedelic drugs are illegal?

Why do you think that the Bull or the Cow or the Calf is such a revered symbol?

I wonder if it is because of what GROWS from its DUNG?

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MAGIC MUSHROOMS.

[edit on 4/11/2010 by Josephus23]

Hermtics is over 30'000 year old so
I would say it was the start of religion.

[edit on 12-4-2010 by Theone2000]

Fantastic OP. Someone once put it to me that religions form say, different sides of the same pyramid. A Christian, Muslim, Buddist etc would see only that one side, believing that to the be the whole pyramid. To understand the similarities, borrowings and assimilations would require a humilty about the fragility and transitory state of one's chosen faith.

Not certain if anybody mentioned it, but there are an uncomfortably large number of similiarites between the life/death of Jesus and the Egyptian's story of Osiris.

Gilgamesh and the Adam and Eve stories have striking similarities since in the end of Gilgamesh a snake (Enki I think) takes away Gilgamesh's immortality and a snake cost Adam and Eve their immortality.

Also this:

Symbol of Zoroastrianism (the Faravahar):

Some sources say that the person in the ring of the winged figure is Zoroaster while others just say its a "human figure", I say its Marduk.

Babylonian wizard-god Marduk:

Notice he's holding a ring, has similar hair, and has a similar crown to the person in the Faravahar. I also find the shape of his eye interesting (Horus?) though I may be looking too much into that

god of Assyria, Ashur (who has MANY different names):

and


Note: Ashur and Marduk are the same god, Babylon and Assyria just have different representations of him. Marduk/Ashur was the creator. Nearly all Mesopotamian mythologies had the same or similar gods just with different names and representations. Marduk is also seen wearing the same helmet as Ashur with wings and everything.

Marduk is also Merodach in Hebrew which appears somewhere in the Old Testament (I don't know where though)


The winged symbol is prominent throughout Mesopotamian mythology and Egyptian mythology as it can be a symbol of power or human spirit and also can represent the sun or divine glory among a billion other definitions . Zoroastrianism (founded by Zoroaster as the first monotheistic faith around 6th century BC) just adopted it.

This definitely shows some connections between 3 very different mythologies.

Also Zoroastrianism had a big thing on dualism which is obviously a big thing in "Eastern religions."

Its all neat to look into.

Edit to add: Ok I was reading about Horus and one thing is that the winged sun disk (the mesopotamian winged figure symbol) is A: used in a LOT more ideologies and mythologies than I initially thought. and B: they are also called Shen rings in Egyptian mythology that are often seen being carried by Horus in his falcon form. The funny thing there is that for one Ashur is in a ring with falcon wings and secondly, Ashur's Babylonian form, Marduk always carries a ring either on him or in his hands.

Another interesting fact is that Marduk was the head of the Babylonian pantheon of gods AND was associated with Jupiter (holy crap IT'S ZEUS). *head explodes*

Lastly Enki is amazing, he or she is seen in so many different mythologies it's not even funny.

[edit on 4/12/10 by MoothyKnight]

reply to post by SunIsSon


I would have to disagree with you.

I have seen zeitgeist, and I do understand what it is trying to portray through personification. And I will agree, A lot of of these text have this knowledge ENCODED within them, as it is very important and useful information.

However, A lot of these texts are filtered through what i call an "initiation codex". Basically the mystery societies past and present, have learned how to codify their knowledge into a story so that it can be freely written down and spread out, without giving away their secrets to the laymen. One famous and easy to understand example is alchemy. We have always been told that its purpose was the transmutation of lead or something else into gold. However, to the initiated, it really means learning to transmute our primitive consciousness(lead) into that of god/the godlike(gold). If anyone here is a fan of the band TOOL, I want to post some lyrics from the song THE GRUDGE as it pertains to this very idea.

Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated
anchor.
Give away the stone. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.

My next point is that NOT ALL information in these books is to explain the stars. If a society is intelligent enough to create such a powerful and encoded book, they are surely intelligent enough to make it useful in more than 1 way. These books were so profound that they have become obsessions to billions of people. These books had MANY purposes!

I love religious syncretism and the concept of connectivity between the religions. The more you look, the more you see. A few random observations.

1) All major religions have mystical traditions that, upon close examination, appear to have more in common with each other than they do with the more fundamentalist, text-based branches of their own religions. The mystical strains involve common elements like merging with the divine, loss of ego, ritual positions, postures, breath-work, etc., repetition like Asian mantras or the Christian "prayer of the heart", a focus on direct experience, a focus on silence both east and west, the idea that the core experience "can't be put into words," and so on.

2) Most major religions seem to have heavy astrological/astronomical underpinnings, as well.

Beyond that, some specific odds and ends:

-Barlaam and Josaphat: A medieval Christian retelling of the tale of Buddha?

-Buddhism in Iran and Indo-Iranian influence in Tibet.

-And don't forget Greco-Buddhism.

-Plus, we have a strong awareness of Hindu philosopy in the ancient Western classical world.

-Meanwhile, we have Nestorian Christians in ancient China.

-Alchemy from Egypt to Europe to India to China... just count the similarities.



[edit on 4/12/10 by silent thunder]

Josephus is on to something even more archaic than religion, I think. That gets down to the nitty gritty ancient ANCIENT ancient man... Terence Mckenna=genius

reply to post by MoothyKnight


Yes there are quite a few cool things about the Epic of Gilgamesh. I found out this semester that the meteor in the Kaaba(etymology 'cube') is described in that Epic, along with the ancient gardens that used to surround the Kaaba complex(so I've been told).

Now Gilgamesh got up to tell his dream to his mother, Ninsun, one of the wise gods. "Mother, last night I had a dream. I was full of joy, the young heroes were round me and I walked through the night under the stars of the firmament, and one, a meteor of the stuff of Anu, fell down from heaven. I tried to lift it but it proved too heavy. All the people of Uruk came round to see it, the common people jostled and the nobles thronged to kiss its feet; and to me its attraction was like the love of woman. They helped me, I braced my forehead and I raised it with thongs and brought it to you, and you yourself pronounced it my brother."

And if I remember correctly.. the casing around the stone on the Kaaba has had to be replaced a couple times due to so many people trying to touch it. This passage describes Gilgamesh's dream, in which the meteor is the symbol of Enkidu's birth. Enkidu is a man of the wild, being born into a sort of wildlife sanctuary or wilderness. I can't find anything to verify right now, but my professor said that there used to be a sort of sanctuary around where the complex is now...

I think many also suggest that the black cube represents Saturn.

And it would be nice to find out if this historian is for real, or if he is correct:

Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple?
By P.N. Oak (Historian)

Glancing through some research material recently, I was pleasantly surprised to come across a reference to a king Vikramaditya inscription found in the Kaaba in Mecca proving beyond doubt that the Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire.www.hinduism.co.za...

Awesome thread Skyfloating, BTW.

A good reference for anyone interested in these types of things:

The three declared objects of the original Theosophical Society as established by Blavatsky, Judge and Olcott were as follows:
First — To form a nucleus of the Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste, or color.
Second — To encourage the study of Comparative Religion, Philosophy, and Science.
Third — To investigate the unexplained laws of Nature and the powers latent in man

Is a searchable database here:
theosophy.org...

Great post, Skyfloating... never really thought about the way different languages are portrayed like that.. good work.
I'm an avid researcher of world religions, so this stuff is right up my alley!
Thanks for the post!

reply to post by beebs


I'm fairly certain that everything mythological stemmed from Mesopotamian mythology so I wouldn't doubt that the Kaaba has ties to Hinduism.

[edit on 4/12/10 by MoothyKnight]

As previously stated, all modern major religions are primarily based on the Sumerian/Egyptian religions, so this comes as no real surprise to me, although good work on highlighting a few things that I was unaware of.

I would like to point out that the statement made in the OP:

The reason you dont read and find much on inter-religiousity is because the "Religious" believe anything other than what they believe is not worth looking into and the anti-religious believe all religions are bogus and have nothing of value to learn.

Is wrong. I am anti-religious and have researched religious texts extensively. Many anti-religious people feel as strongly about religion as the religious. Personally, I just find the stories and the inter-connectivity fascinating. It's the earliest and some of the best sci-fi I've ever read!

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
What a great thread !

The name Christ, krishna and kristos can easily be explained.
Our language. From Greek to Indian to English can all be traced back to the same beginning. Sanskrit was it called

sanskrit is not the source of krishna or kristos, they aren't even related, they just seem to be.
krishna means dark or blue mostly in reference to his skin, kristos(i think you mean khristos) means anointed, not a very good connection between the two if you ask me.

As for Christianity and Islam. They are from the same Abraham Isaak and Jacob.
Yet it apears that Allah is a moon god.

you mean judaism? isaac was the patriarch of the israelites.
the claim that allah is a moon god is spacious at best, Al-lah means "the god", he is YHWH according to muslims, calling him allah is like calling YHWH, EL or elohim or Adonai.
all god names are basically titles.

The teachings fro christ are very similar to eastern ways.

some are, but so are a lot of other beliefs.

The old testament was before the exodus completely based on the ancient Sumerian beliefs what is not really strange because Abraham came from UR. An ancient Sumerian city.

true.

The story of Noah is the same one as the Gilgamesh epoch.
It is speculated that Enoch gave the orders to build the pyramids and later disappeared in to Greece as Artemis ( not sure )but it makes it alot more clear how Mozes could be an Egyptian prince.

so enoch became a woman? some people have issues if they believe that.
why would this prove anything about moshi? he was found by the daughter of the pharaoh and raised as a prince.

Early Christianity was more of a spiritually based life like reincarnation was present in it

christianity was a sect of judaism, the most common belief of first century judaism was bodily resurrection after the messiah comes.

You say it looks like there is something to hide or to prevent.
The biggest example I can offer is that of the tower of babel.

We as a race were as one and we were heading for greatness.
We were stopped and we were changed we were no able to understand each other any more... Why ? I believe the bible actualy says something like this. we had to be stopped because if we would continue we would be capable of achieving the impossible. We are being kept out of the loop.

I'm coming back on this cause my head won't be up right much longer good night.

hmm i think you need to read it again, it was a story to explain why we don't share the same languages and why we cover the earth.

[edit on 12-4-2010 by demongoat]

reply to post by Skyfloating


"THE TRUTH" simplified is, that the gods(aliens) damaged all souls and genetically in "the beginning", then spent millennia tricking humans to think it was their fault. one could fill in with yards of explanation, but the simple solution is to abandon ALL "god-thoughts", and just get on with your lives as best u can. they >should< karmically pay eventually, but their total debts to humanity are so collossal, they may never be >able< to, so if youre desperate for any help, turn to other humans, not Them.

if you want to argue god is wonderfull, look at dinosaurs ripping each other to pieces. a nice loving "creator" at work ?

i want to point somethings out to the OP.
the jews do not use the cross for a symbol, they at most use the star of david and even then they just use it to have a symbol.
islam didn't start with the crescent moon, it was a symbol incorporated by the ottoman empire centuries after islam started, the symbol is older than islam.

originally it was a symbol of constantinople, when the ottoman empire took the city, the empire took up the moon as a symbol, after the emperor had a dream of a moon covering the earth.

normally religious tolerance is a good site, but further research shows that the links between krishna and christ are either wrong or made up.
a lot of the links are obviously christian influences, maybe not imposed ones, but a lot could be chocked up to christianity spreading.

Humans + Concept of religion = Lost.
Humans + No concept of religion =Lost.
Humans + All Hope = Lost.

your connection are wrong because islam has nothing to do with cresent moon ,its not its symbol,islam has no symbol, its that simple,islam doesnot have symbol like Christianity has cross.
and how i know that?cause i am muslim.
and also a star and moon is not Islamic symbol,just because some Muslim countries have that in their flag doesn't make it a Islam symbol..
i even remember asking my brother.i said why do they think star and moon is Islamic symbol??he also didn't have any idea why...