Muslim nurses CAN cover up... but Christian colleagues can't wear crucifixes

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by Artanis667
It makes sense that our defenses, if overused, would generate a strain resistant to them. But, if you believe this, why wouldn't the human body adapt as well? Why would our white blood cells be excluded from this adaptation? I don't believe that is the case.

For the exact reason you just said.

If you overuse disinfectants and the like, your not only making the germs more resistant, you are also weakening your immune system because you're not exposing your body to the normal barrage of day to day germs.

It is the same thing as having an overly clean home. This has been linked to the rise in Asthma and other allergies.

It isn't a hoax.

Well, that makes sense. Maybe we should seriously consider a boycott of anti-bacterial products? I just ;have a feeling if something like this happened it would be put on OUR use of such things...

reply to post by Yissachar1


As this thread has decayed from a social into a racial thread, there's no point in continuing.

___________________________________________________

BTW Yiss, in response to your signature:

Ar I am ay I.

Boing Boing!

reply to post by stumason


I'd like to point out your hypocrisy with you saying how we shouldn't resort to immature name calling and calling each other racists and bigots just because we disagree with their opinion.

Perhaps you could take that on board too, as on page 5 you refer to another user's post as "left-wing drivel."

Also as I said in my earlier post, the debate needs to be had but not using some of the language people use. But oh no, if we have a debate according to your rules the words "racist" and "bigot" are strictly off limits.
So perhaps in future you could try to respect people's opinions.

reply to post by stumason

Originally posted by stumason
Namely, the Europeans tend to come here for work, earn some money and then go home again.

The "asylum seekers" of the early century and the current Muslim population are here to stay.

So it's ok if they come here and then go home again, that's ok?
But if they decide to settle here and make a life for themselves, then this is some how an issue.

Asylum seekers are not the problem, it is the duty of Every civilised, developed, first world country to take in people whose lives are in danger, who are threatened with death in their own country just for existing or having differing opinions from their government... and I'm glad we do it, That is one of things we can be proud of England for.
Genuine Asylum seekers are no issue whatsoever, The issue is the bogus asylum seekers and Illegal Immigrants.... those that have evaded the screening process and have gained entry illegally and so on... that is the issue.
Genuine hard working people or people coming here to escape persecution are, in my mind, not a problem.

They are also ALOT more vocal and certainly more demanding of us to conform to their standards. This serves to generate alot more angst towards them than is directed at the Poles etc.
Whilst you might say it isn't the immigrants "fault", this is to an extent true. However, it's the bheaviour of said immigrants (or at least a vocal minority within them) that causes alot of the bad blood.

But exactly, It truly is a vocal minority... and then people say and generalise by saying all Muslims this and "yeah but muslims do this and don't do that"... it's simply not true... as with any group of people/religion or whatever, you're always going to have a vocal and extreme minority, but the trick is to remember that they do not represent the whole religion/people and nor should we label them all together.

As I said before, I don't think everyone who is proud of their country is a fervent nationalist or will have racial tendencies, some will, but the amount is certainly not representative of the whole, and I always bear that in mind.

You have to think most of the problems started around or just after Sept.11th... and there was massive hatred aimed at Muslims in general.
They suffered a hell of a lot of abuse.
I worked with some guys who told me some horrible things... people spitting on them and kids being beaten up and women and themselves being attacked and Mosques being attacked and so on.... and why?

Would we go around beating up all Christians if some religious nutter blew up a building? No...we wouldn't.
But because these people are perceived as "Foreigners" or just "Them" then it doesn't matter.

You have to see this as a two-way thing, Muslims have a difficult time integrating sometimes yes, but do you think it's entirely down to them being unwilling to do so?

I think not.

I also agree that it is both sides spoiling the debate. The wishy-washy left for crying racism as soon as anyone opens their mouth, or the far-right thugs who like to smack a "darkie" just because he has a higher melanin count.

Exactly, that's why there will probably never be a serious debate.
There is too much extremism and too much hatred from all sides.
Nobody can look at the issue subjectively because everyone has something at stake or some kind of personal/emotional involvement.

So it will always be a near impossible debate to have.

Anyway, as we know... the government don't allow the public a say on anything, they just go ahead and pass laws and take away rights and so on without us having a say... Democracy indeed.

I know of incidents where individuals have been arrested for distributing leaflets opposing local mosques, for example. There was never any racist intent, just a desire to protect local culture or what have you, but Fuzz will bust their door in and have them away on "racially aggravated" charges, thereby scaring good, honest folk from even dicussing the issue which many have a great deal to say about.

Well I've seen these kind of incidents before too.
And It's hard to say anything without knowing the specifics of the cases you're referring to.

I don't see a problem with anyone or any religious group having a place to go and worship... I really don't.
Christians have their place, Jews have theirs... so why not Muslims?

So long as it adheres to noise laws, building regulations and any other "Laws-of-the-land" then I really don't see the problem.

I don't seriously buy that there are that many racists in the UK, at least in relation to the vast majority. Times have moved on, for the most part. What people don't like to see is in the space of ten short years whole neighbourhoods changing character and even some becoming "no white areas" where you actually risk physical harm should you dare to go there and be caucasion.

Times have moved on and now there are laws in place to try and thwart racism and racist abuse.
Doesn't mean that people are not racist, it just means people are less "Openly" racist.
Obviously out of the whole population, the percentage of people who are racist would not be vastly significant or the majority.... but I do think we have a very long way to go.
I still think there are a hell of a lot of racist and ignorant people in this country.

Also pretty much every western country has undergone radical changes in social structure and in regards to their city/town landscapes.... It's globalisation and Multiculturalism.... Go to any European countries... or Australia or America... It's the same there.

And again, if you have an issue with this, I personally don't, then blame the government or the EU for allowing it to happen.
The immigrants don't decide how many of them will come in and how they can change the landscape and so on... The government do.

I don't think this is racism, it is a desire to not have the place you have lived in change simply because a Socialist Government tried it's hand at social engineering and importing many who would likely vote for them in the future.

Whether it's social engineering or The fact that we now have open borders with the EU or just Multiculturalism.... it's here and it's happening.
As I said, look at France and the massive trouble they've had for years... riots and looting... murders and so on.
We're not the only country that this is happening in.

But we are dealing with it in a much more civilised way and the fact that we have so many people from so many backgrounds and so many different ethnic groups here, to me, is a great thing.

It's another thing that I am proud of.... Another thing this country has done well.... not the excessive numbers and not the sloppy way the government has kept track of people, but just the general diversity, I love it.

I will ask if you've seen the Dispatched programme on Islamic extremist parties getting invloved in local politics and how closely linked they are to some senior Labour MP's. Add to that the stated aim of these groups is Islamification of the UK and you get genuine fear from the populace for the countries future. This is compounded by the seeming unwillingness of the Government to address these fears, whatsoever.

Not sure if I saw that or not.
I usually watch Dispatches.... how long ago was it on and do you have any links to the particular program?

I personally think the "Islamification of the UK" is just some first-class scaremongering... dreamed up to keep people ignorant and afraid.
And I know there are extremist groups such as the "Now defunct/under another name" Islam4Uk and other groups whose sole purpose is to wind-up and scare the British public with tales of Sharia law and Out-breeding the populace and so on, In the same way that the BNP and EDL spead their respective hatred and propaganda.

Neither group will ever get in to power.

Sharia law will not be imposed upon people in this country.

If someone commits a crime, irrespective of their race or religion, they go through the Judicial procedures of the UK, and until I hear that this has changed, I pay no attention to any bollocks spouted by any extremist.

I am glad you don't think I am a racist, but I am puzzled by your attitude to nationalism. I am proud of this country, it's achievements and the people who live here. I simply wish to preserve what is left of England, with it's ancient democracy, world reknowned Justice system, it's fabulous history and it's reputation for fairness.

I've mentioned a few things I am proud of in a few posts above.
I'm proud how progressive a nation we are, how we are a nation that is Mainly a Socialist Democracy where workers rights are protected... where also we all chip-in and help everyone out in terms of healthcare... the NHS.

There are many great things about this Nation.
But I'm not proud to be British/English or whatever I'm glad to be a member of the Human-race.... that's what I am... a human.
I'm not a Brit or an Atheist or whatever... I'm a human.

reply to post by stumason

Only in England is nationalism equated with racism, elsewhere people are expected to have a degree of national pride and to want to preserve their way of life. But if the English want to do it, it's boiled down to a desire to "get rid of them darkies", which has nothing to do with it all.

I don't believe that is the case, although I do agree that English Nationalism does have a reputation of being racist and violent.
As I mention above, France have very similar issues and have had for some time.

Spanish Nationalism, Spanish... I think we all remember the treatment our Black football players got in the game against Spian?

However it deemed something joyous and brilliant when you're a proud Scot, welshmen and so on... I don't agree.... I'm not a fan of nationalism as I said... so I don't know how to sort this issue out.

Perhaps if it weren't for our own "Racist-skinhead-football-thug-England-flag waving-hooligan" thing, perhaps we would have a better feeling for English Nationalism...Perhaps if the Far-right groups hadn't hijacked "English Nationalism" back in the 70's, we wouldn't have this problem.

The NF, Combat-18... all this led to Nationalism being a dirty word in England... how to reclaim it for those decent people, is a puzzle that is a tricky one to solve.





I work with a Ghanain, 2 South Africans, 2 Russians and a Ukrainian. I have mates from all ethnic groups and even have a couple of Gay friends. I am as liberal as they come, but I still love my country.




Well I'm not going to reel off my friends in corresponding ethnic groups and sexual persuasions, 'cos I don't really think like that.
But whatever floats your boat I guess.

Surely, as a nation, we should be looking out for ourselves first? Other nations certainly do. Our Government has let us down in this regard, majorly. Especially with examples like this article where the "needs" of one group are being placed above the needs of another.

Well as I said, This is something that for which our government is at fault.

Blaming the people for something that the government does, Is not the right way to deal with it.

But I agree... if this whole "Nurses/religion" thing is such an issue... just make it so all have to adhere to a strict dress code of a Uniform only, no religious Garb and nothing religious involved at all.

I don't see work as the right place for religion anyway.... unless you're a priest or Imam or Rabbi?



[edit on 13/4/10 by blupblup]

The title of this thread is a lie.

The nurse in question was told she could wear a crucifix, just not on a chain around her neck as necklaces are forbidden there.

Get that?

Crucifixes are not forbidden in that hospital, neck-chains are.
If the nurse felt wearing her crucifix was so important she could have continued to wear it, as a broach.

This is like the tale of the American woman supposedly thrown out of her flat for being Christian, when the truth was she was evicted for nailing marshmallows, (Peeps,) to the outside of her door, and refusing to remove them. This was her idea of an Easter decoration, perhaps she thought it was a Peep on the cross in Galilee.

I can only guess at why some Christians have to twist stories to support a "poor me, I'm a persecuted Christian," tale of tortured woe.

I don't think people read the entire article, rather a lot of people posting didnt read the entire article. They still have to go through the same hygeine procedures as every other staffer. The only difference is that if they don't want forearms exposed they have to wear disposable sanitary sleeves. That in itself isn't a big deal. The sleeves aren't a religous symbol but they have a religous purpose. I'm not sure why everyone is having a hissyfit.

The nurse with the cross NECKLACE. If you look at the cross it hangs loosely. That is a health risk. Get a tighter necklace or wear it as a pin like the hospital suggested. She isn't being discriminated against. She just thinks she is.

I don't disagree with the hospitals reaction to the necklace or the sleeve issue. I saw them as being very accomadating to both. And just because the nurse has worn it for 30 years doesn't make it ok. She may not have injured anyone with the cross but who knows the germs she spread?

Folks need to take a valium and stop making a federal case out of the smallest nuances.

The last two posts sum this up - it's a non-issue.

The OP and his lovely fascist friends tried to use the article, as a non-issue, to preach hatred about Muslims. I can't wait for Britain to be purged of your ilk I really cant - Fascism has no place in a civilized society.

Parallex.

reply to post by Parallex


Whats my ilk? And who is going to purge what?

reply to post by Parallex

Explanation: You must have me on ignore!

Way to go by not giving credit where credit is due!

Personal Disclosure: I value my research time that I invested into my post to this thread and so YES I'm going to blow my own horn as you certainly didn't!

I provided several links to evidence that proved the case [regardless of my rant..we all seem to agree now that this was a BS issue to start with!],
where as the 2 members you refer too DIDN'T! I'm pretty about that!

My post wrapped this issue up nicely and I'm completely insulted that you would TOTALLY overlook that!

My Post to this thread!

P.S. If anybody thinks my ego isn't invested in my ATS membership and reputation then they need to think again!

THANKS TO ALL THOSE MEMBERS WHO ST*RRED MY POST! You Rock!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


I agree with your post, OL, and I like how you actually give solutions instead of just another ranting post about how life is unfair...

We used to wear our name badges, which were also used for clocking in, on lanyards around our necks. They would dangle onto a patient bed when we leaned down, in which case we'd sling them over our backs for a few minutes. Then some astute person realized that might not be the most sanitary solution, and we were given retractable lanyards that could be pulled out to clock in and out, and would stay by our neckline where we attached them the rest of the time...Amazing what a little thinking will do, huh?