Why don't doctors recommend different types of cancer treatments, besides radiation?

Originally posted by Velvet1


**********


You know, this is your first reply that genuinely made me smile in good way.

Answer: Nope!

Reason: Not what you think - I don't have time today. BUT, never say never soo...I'll bite.

I will start a foundational ball rolling though with Q's that you and I already know the answers to, but are relevant in your proposed debate.

1) In order to pass the USMLE, how many of the block MCQ's are dedicated to alternative medical knowledge and application?

It varies year to year and topic to topic. No two USMLE exam years are the same. For instance, anatomy was previously a miniscule (if not absent entirely) portion of the USMLE, but has been making a resurgence in the last two years. CAM (complementary and alternative medicine) isn't a discrete section, rather, it is mixed into other topics, such as renal pathophysiology, neoplasia, etc.

2) Same for 9 clinical case simulations - if you presented a well known and positively researched alternative course of treatment only, would you pass 'without' also cross referencing a classic stock treatment programme?

Yes, you would pass. If you are referring to USMLE Step 2, they accept any treatment that had been verified as medically and ethically sound, which includes many alternative treatments such as acupuncture and green tea, for starters. Green tea is a wonderful CAM for lymphoma, in conjunction with modern treatments.

3) How many, once licensed can and do cut through the tightly controlled use of alternative medicines, within the general system, without invalidating insurance claims or getting sacked? This is getting even more tight under the new Codex Alimentarius rules governing many alternative medicines.

The Codex has absolutely nothing to do with how doctors prescrbine anything. It simply requires clear packaging for mineral/herbal supplements. Also, insurance companies, by and large, love paying for alternative therapies as they often are much, much, MUCH less expensive than standard treatments.

If you also practice personally researched positive alternative medical routes (?), then you are admiral, but certainly not the norm and are usually to be found in private practices.

Most doctors I know prefer to either allow or suggest some pain-relieving or symptom-relieving alternative therapies. I guess my anecdote cancels out yours.

When I debate a topic. Unless I say otherwise I am always using a
general-specific pattern to any argument.

If you are unfamiliar with this standard debating principle (or RFAS
Rhetorical Functions in Academic Speaking) from reasoning and being reasonable, then I suggest you take time to learn, if you want to be taken seriously in your opinions, especially by sage contributors and lecturers.

Does that same debate pattern require you to ignore counter-arguments and babble on about topics not related to the matter at hand?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


WRONG! You haven't cured anything. Do you even know what "cured" means? Obviously not. Hence there's no point in even arguing with people like you or VZD who don't even understand the basics of cancer statistics. Let's see where you are 5-10 years from now and if you're "cured". No one is saying that radiation, chemo, and surgery doesn't work. But you can also kill a headache with a lead bullet to the head. Get the point?


There are LOTS of people using alternative treatments. Just google the various reviews on amazon and you'll hear real stories from real people. Google any number of a thousand alternative cancer treatment sites who have real people having their cancer cured or at least put into remission from alternative. Look up Dr. Simonicini who is using curing people of cancer using sodium bicarbonate and who's book Cancer is a Fungus isn't even available in the USA. Study Linus Pauling and the countless people that have used Ascorbic acid therapy to fight disease and cancer. You like everyone else in this thread have no clue what's out there. Research chelation therapy/EDTA and the list goes on and on. Researc the Syracuse Cancer Institute. Research Mithridatism and longevity........i.e.. Bill Haas who's been bitten by justa bout every poisonous snake and his cancer and disease free at 90+ years old. Google Immune milk and its use in fighting disease that was used decades ago. They don't teach doctors everything in medical school Just about every popular scientific alternative cancer treatments have been introduced by genius doctors who have A HELL OF A LOT more experience, knowledge and intelligence than everyone in this thread put together. I.e. Dr. Jacobs, Dr. Ivy, Dr. Gold. Dr. Ivy was one of the most world renowned Dr. in America at one time. VZD and you are clueless. B12????? Haha that's a weak form of alternative cancer therapy. The big guns are things like DMSO, Krebiozen, 714X, Hydrazine sulfate.

www.preventcancer.com...

Dr. Samuel Epstein's Politics of Cancer Revisited documents the corporate control of the medical industry and the cover up of the real causes of cancer -- and the minimal focus on PREVENTION.

www.preventcancer.com...

In this report, the experts estimate that up to 38 percent of all cancer deaths during the years 1978-2008, would be linked to six 'high exposure,' occupational carcinogens: asbestos, arsenic, benzene, chromium, nickel oxides, and petroleum fractions. The estimates consider the effect of these carcinogens on workers only. It does not include their effect on the workers' families or household members (Workers bring carcinogenic chemicals and dust into their homes via clothes and skin), nor the effect on community members who are exposed to these substances via industrial pollution. Also, the report disregards the effect of radiation and all other known occupational carcinogens.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

who's book Cancer is a Fungus isn't even available in the USA.

Yes, it is:

Amazon

Abebooks

Textbook Exchange

Alibris

Are you finished manufacturing a conspiracy, now? No one is trying to silence Dr. Simonici. It's just that none of his ideas have merit.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

WRONG! You haven't cured anything.

Both of my points stand as fact.

You presume to know better because you read something on the net? You are calling out a cancer survivor, and apparently an MD as well?

Isn't that special.

And how are those anger management sessions going for you?

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


THOSE ARE USED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can find The Federal Mafia by Irwin Schiff on ebay. That doesn't mean it's available in the USA. Do you know the difference? The Federal Mafia has been banned by the US government. Hence my point. And you have some pretty big balls to say Dr. Simoncini's theory is invalid and shows just how arrogant and brainwashed you are. Sodium bicarbonate directly affects the body's pH levels making it more alkalinic. LOTS of people have beaten lots of different diseases with an alkaline diet.

And let's not forget Linus Pauling and his research on vitamin C. A whole institution is named after him at Oregon State University and he was awarded the nobel prize for research MULTIPLE times!!! There are PLENTY of great doctors who've shunned the system in order to bring true scientific breakthroughs to humanity. Vitamin C has been proven to be affective against cancer.....the problem is most doctors and many people in general don't understand how to use it.

Some of you are absolutely clueless.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


No I presume to know better because I've talked to, interacted with and met 20-30 people who've all cured cancer and are alive today after shunning traditional cancer treatment, many with stage IV tumors and metastasis. I've also corresponded personally with Dr. Gold SEVERAL times regarding hydrazine sulfate. I've talked personally with several people in Toronto who've cured cancer with 714X injected into their lymphatic system. I know A HELL of a lot more than you obviously do about alternative cancer treatment.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

THOSE ARE USED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And? Your argument was that the book cannot be sold in the United States. Clearly, it can, and Amazon just hasn't been provided with new copies by the puiblisher. That sounds like a publisher problem, not a legal problem.

I can find The Federal Mafia by Irwin Schiff on ebay. That doesn't mean it's available in the USA. Do you know the difference? The Federal Mafia has been banned by the US government.

It's interesting that you only tell the parts of the story that fit your world view. Schiff was convicted of tax evasion and tax fraud in at least 6 instances, and owed over $2 million in back taxes. Due to his felonious past in regard to taxes, the court ordered an injuction that forces him to disclose his convictions whenever selling books related to taxes. Thus, he stopped selling books himself.

The motto of the site is "Deny Ignorance", not "Tell Lies of Omission".

Hence my point. And you have some pretty big balls to say Dr. Simoncini's theory is invalid and shows just how arrogant and brainwashed you are. Sodium bicarbonate directly affects the body's pH levels making it more alkalinic. LOTS of people have beaten lots of different diseases with an alkaline diet.

Your body doesn't become more alkaline by ingesting a bicarbonate solution. In fact, bicarbonate is the main buffer in your plasma. Your system is maintained at a very narrow pH, with a physiological margin of error of about .2 units. Taking excess alkaline into your body simply causes you to convert it to carbonic acid and excrete it. That is physiology 101.

And let's not forget Linus Pauling and his research on vitamin C. A whole institution is named after him at Oregon State University and he was awarded the nobel prize for research MULTIPLE times!!! There are PLENTY of great doctors who've shunned the system in order to bring true scientific breakthroughs to humanity. Vitamin C has been proven to be affective against cancer.....the problem is most doctors and many people in general don't understand how to use it.

Some of you are absolutely clueless.

Vitamin C is a well known and longstanding ancillary treatment in cancer, and is necessary to prevent wasting disorders. Who, exactly, is denying the importance of vitamin C?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


That's right, Johnny. Zosyn knows better to you because he/she has "talked to people" and they "did stuff". You're probably just imagining your remission.

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


What are you talking about? IV vitamin C therapy is hardly mainstream or a common ancillary treatment in cancer. Wow you really have no clue what you're talking about. Many doctors have no clue how to use intravenous vitamin C the way Pauling did in his research.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

What are you talking about? IV vitamin C therapy is hardly mainstream or a common ancillary treatment in cancer. Wow you really have no clue what you're talking about. Many doctors have no clue how to use intravenous vitamin C the way Pauling did in his research.

Ascorbic acid is commonly monitored when giving chemotherapeutics and and anti-retrovirals. This is because lipid dystrophy and opportunistic infections are more common when you lack ascorbic acid, due to problems with connective tissue and mucous membranes.

Again, physiology 101.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


Zosynspiracy.....

In order that I can understand the context of these discussions regarding these complex areas of medicine & healthcare, may I ask you a question?

May I ask for an overview of your background, experience & qualifications regarding these medical issues?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

No I presume to know better because...

Sure sign of a fool.

Zosy, make sure you take Anatomy and Physiology, both I and II. Maybe Microbiology. When you are done, then form an opinion on the material you are discussing.

It is obvious you have taken neither, and are not aware of chemical interactions within the body.

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


I can't help but respond that it's awesome how you pwned in all your replies. It's kinda like watching Neo's fight with the oodles of Agent Smiths. (especially since I don't think you're insulting anyone, so that continuous accusation sounds rather silly)

Anyway, I'm all for trying alternative medicine. I do some myself (not for cancer so I can't comment on that part); some stuff works and others don't. Most importantly, it looks from my experience that 90% of the alternative field are either scam artists looking for a quick buck or just don't understand what they're doing, but simply regurgitating something they learned in a biased manner. However, if and when you find genuine healers, you can thank your lucky stars.

There are doctors who suggest alternative treatments, even skeptical doctors would say if you want to, you can try it out if it doesn't scientifically neutralize whatever medication you are taking. Either way, you get to make the final decision yourselves and decide what you want to do. But if I were to have the misfortune of having cancer, I would go for what has the highest chance of survival, and like it or not, chemo is at the top of the list. I'd still try alternative medicine, but I'm not willing to bet my life on it.

OTOH, I do know of 2 family friends who don't know each other and ended up finding the same man in China who makes an herbal powder that supposedly can cure cancer. One had 3 months to live, the other less than a month ... as diagnosed by world renowned doctors. They both ended up finding this man as a last resort, and both have been in remission for 6+ years. I have no info on the medicine man though I believe he is still alive; he keeps a very low profile because he believes the cure should be available to the poor and if the drug companies found out, it would not be the case. This is all hearsay, of course.

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


First off it's LIPODYSTROPHY ONE WORD........not lipid dystrophy.......that's like kindergarten medical school terminology. Lipodystrophy has no bearing on cancer and alternative cancer treatment nice try. Second, what the hell does retroviral medication have to do with cancer treatment and chemotherapy???????? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! ART is not commonly used in cancer treatment unless it's AIDS related. You have no clue what you are talking about and at this point I highly even doubt you are an actual "MD" when you can't even grasp the basics yourself.


[edit on 12-4-2010 by Zosynspiracy]

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

First off it's LIPODYSTROPHY ONE WORD........not lipid dystrophy.......that's like kindergarten medical school terminology.

It can also be referred to as lipid dystrophy. But, yes, lipodystrophy is the more common phrasing. I apologise for using a relatively archaic term.

Lipodystrophy has no bearing on cancer and alternative cancer treatment nice try.

I never said it did. I was referring to the usefulness of vitamin C overall. Please read my post in it's entirety.

Second, what the hell does retroviral medication have to do with cancer treatment and chemotherapy???????? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! ART is not commonly used in cancer treatment unless it's AIDS related.

I never said it did. I was referring to the usefulness of vitamin C overall. Please read my post in it's entirety.

My post was simply demonstrating that, in conditions where there is a chance of lipodystrophy (ART) or connective tissue breakdown (radiation/chemotherapeutics), ascorbic acid is commonly measure and maintained at a physiologically normal level to prevent wasting. I really can't be held accountable for your lack of reading comprehension, so I'm not really sure what you want me to say in response to your post.

You have no clue what you are talking about and at this point I highly even doubt you are an actual "MD" when you can't even grasp the basics yourself.

That's fine. You've shown yourself time and time again to be nothing more than a whining child. At the end of the day, I know I'm still a doctor, as do my patients, and that's all that matters.

By the way, Zosyn, some cancer treatments that are non-chemotherapeutic will, in fact, lead to lipodystrophy/lipoatrophy. You should look into the consequences of long-term INF and steroid therapy.

Originally posted by Velvet1

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
reply to post by Velvet1

 

Having a debate would require you to answer counter-arguments, which you seem incapable of doing, as I've presented the same argument three times now and you have yet to even acknowledge it.

Thanks for playing and have a great day! =)

How many times have I already asked you to quit the insults. I will not debate or acknowledge any of your arguments whilst you continue with the flying swipes like above, again. (incapable of doing).

You are obviously not in the right frame of mind to be academically subjective, let alone graceful in 'argument', so you too have a nice day.

Note: Often personal vibrations cross another's path on the wrong frequency. The wise will re-tune accordingly, the rest will start a war!

You are certainly one of the most ignorant people I've seen on ATS. Why don't you answer his questions, instead of going on a clear rampant attack on his personality because you don't agree? It is quite clear that he knows what he is talking about, and I also back him up fully in regard to his resources and statements, being an academic myself with a masters in cell biology and physiology.

ATS has become such a bad place for arrogant people, that only believe in themselves and their own theories...

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


A real MD would never use the term lipid dystrophy plain and simple. Anyone with ANY familiarity of the terminology used in AIDS/HIV which is where it is so commonly applied knows it's lipodystrophy. Along with your complete irrelevant discussion of ART/LIPO dystrophy and cancer you are at worst a fraud and at best an out of the loop primary MD with little knowledge of cancer and oncology in general.

Ascrobate plays many roles in many physiological pathways.....for you to insuate that intravenous vitamin C therapy is commonly used in cancer treatment among mainstream oncologists is downright laughable and shows just how out of touch you are. In fact with MANY oncologists Vitamin C therapy especially intravenously is contraindicated due to research showing it can actually protect cancer cells as it does healthy cells and can lessen the effectiveness of chemotherapy. MANY oncologists are apt to prescribe it concomittantly with chemo drugs. That came to light in 2008. Now they are saying vitamin C doesn't affect cancer cells. so again they the medical establishment has no clue what they are talking about. And 40 years later the war on cancer is producing MISERABLE results.

[edit on 12-4-2010 by Zosynspiracy]

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


Zosynspiracy.....

In order that I can understand the context of these discussions regarding these complex areas of medicine & healthcare, may I ask you a question?

May I ask for an overview of your background, experience & qualifications regarding these medical issues?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not