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The New Religion

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posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by GrandKitaro777
 


The Book of Grand Kitaro is starting to shape up.

I wonder if at some point the universe actually loops back on itself in a grand circle.

The Circle of Life.

I have often mused that those polarized so far to the Left often end up coming around through the back door to the Right, and those on the far Right and up coming through the back door to the left.

So many things in life seem to be circular and cycler, I often wonder if that is just because we are stuck in a rut or a truly closed loop exists?



Sounds like science fiction to me, but who knows what mystery the universe can pull.

It may or may not be the case.




posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by GrandKitaro777
 


They say sometimes life is greater than fiction.

I would like to see in religion, the real desire to discover all the mysteries of the universe, and to investigate all it's infinite possibilities in a concerted and enthusiastic way.

Its hard not to imagine we would have so much more to gain in that?



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Okay, when incarnating, and at several points in my lifetime,
I've agreed to be a messiah figure.
Though to my understanding there are at least a few others also working on such.

Since at least 12 years old I've been drafting different religions and belief systems.



If there must be a New One World Religion, what should it really be like?

a distributed religion,
one that allows local communities to modify the rules to their liking



Who would be the Heroes of these New Gospels,

that's as yet unwritten.

there's lots of figureheads that the illuminati and others have been breeding,
but typically they turn out to be disappointments.



how would we define our place in the Universe and perceive it?

you be divine creator of your experience.
you perceive with your body and mind senses.

true be personal experience.
know be past experience.
exist be mind experience.
real be agreed upon, or intersection of sets.



What would our Philosophies towards Life be
and what should constitute what is good or evil?

None be prime-creator.
before anything there be nothing.

logical begining of the multiverse:

none (calm),
then not-none so NOT (awareness)
then none, not. so AND (love)
then none not and so OR (choice)

with those logical connectives we can create a computer,
a turing machine capable of computing any conceivable algorithm.

so infinite.


Good be that which is closer to none (prime-creator) than you.
Evil be that which is closer to infinity (infinite-creator) than you.

Stabilize with prime-creator and learn from infinite-creator.

new information from infinite creator be necessary to maintain soul-interest.
if soul is bored or not growing then host-body is sabotaged with disease or misfortune.
so important to pursue learning and spiritual growth.
appreciate what you have,
extend creatively.

Karma or karmic balancing be quite important.
Commonly known as "law of attraction", what you give is what you get.
Orion priesthood mentions "other be part of self manifested".
So what you do to other, be what you do to self,
karmic balancing ensures you get treated the same way,
so you understand what you did.

once lesson be learned can move on to new.





Who should be in charge,

you and the we with you,
family friends community.


and should anyone,
what would the rituals be,

different atom tribes can have various governmental styles,
whatever suits them is just fine.

stable atoms typically have less than 92 (uranium) protons.
protons could be people, and neutrons could be tasks.

holographic analogy of the universe,
atoms being the most stable part of the universe,
having such communities would ensure stability and diversity allowed by the universe.

atoms can also interconnect into molecules, cells, bodies.



and where and how ought they to take place?

each atom tribe to have it's own area,
preferablly a parcel of land,
perhaps a floating island.

self sustaining and replicating.
fabrication laboratories,
allowing each atom-tribe-community to be able to produce any product,
from chopsticks to flying saucers.



How should it be supported in thought, and deed, and in endowment and empowerment?

communites can store records on stone tablets,
of their beliefs, how-to documents, art, history.

trade surplus with connecting tribes.


living in an atom-tribe can have the technology of city life with the community and spirituality of tribal life.




What should the New World Religion that all shared be like, if you could write it?

I'm also working on a human speakable programming language Huspol.
This will allow both computers and humans to interact with the same spoken language.
The various definitions of words will be more evident as they will have tangible effects on computers or robots.


If you'd like a historical perspective on the origins of various homo-sapien species on this planet,
as well as the judaism, christianity a good source is Thiaooubans,
rune.galactic.to...

I've written many beliefs in my gray alien thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I also incorporate Reptilian empire, Lyran federation among others,

feel free to comment or ask questions.
love and harmony
peace and prosperity


[edit on 11-4-2010 by lowki]

[edit on 11-4-2010 by lowki]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by lowki
 


Thanks Lowki for your detailed and well thought out replies.

I think it’s important to point out, here in this Gray Area that there are those amongst us, who are passionate and serious about the evolution of humanity as a species, and seeing it progress in different ways, and towards different purposes than it previously has.

That’s bound to seem radical to many, but the underlying current reality is the present path being taken is leading to great and greater conflict that serves fewer and fewer.

Ultimately concepts of true self responsibility and awareness are going to be required if humanity is going to continue to survive and thrive as a species.

In a way one might progressively choose to look at current concepts of God and religion as training wheels for a self aware species, maybe not so prepared to be as self aware and aware as it is, when it comes to understanding its place and space in a vastly infinite universe that appears to be so much bigger in comparison.

Many of us clearly seem to be ready to evolve towards something different, more empowering, more interactive, more reasoned and compassioned, and hopefully better.

Perhaps the Universe and life will truly open up more to us, and bestow so much more upon us, when we in fact open up our own minds more to it, and the possibilities?

Its great to get to communicate with people and or/beings who are looking at the universe, and the challenges and opportunities on multiple levels, with very different perspectives on just what we are seeing in it, and just what it is comprised of and how.

Very nice of you to take the time to share your thoughts, and knowledge and direction with us all, and much appreciated thank you!



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by GrandKitaro777
 


They say sometimes life is greater than fiction.

I would like to see in religion, the real desire to discover all the mysteries of the universe, and to investigate all it's infinite possibilities in a concerted and enthusiastic way.

Its hard not to imagine we would have so much more to gain in that?



It sound as if you desire for all of humanity to cooperate in unity positively and seek the mysteries of the universe in harmony.

From my perspective this will never be achieve if the awareness level of humanity remain near abyss levels.


Your vision is basically wishful thinking if you envision humanity seeking and solving mysteries in unison on this planet.

To jump on my spiritual side, your vision happens in what I like to call 4th density or another existence where the awareness is at high levels. Your vision may never happen here because conscious awareness levels are low to the point conflict exist predominately due to being unaware and ignorant.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Thank you for the compliments. It's quite a mental gymnastics tournament for me. Going from the highly evolved and educated discussions of this board, down to some of the other boards I'm on where people can't seem to comprehend the word "fact". I desperately needed some intellectual thinking, and your thread has provided it.


You have captured the essence of what I was trying to convey, and conveyed it back in the way I ultimately see that as a positive possibility myself.


I'll call this a WIN.


More importantly instead of simply being restricted to a very limited pool of 'Teachers' of a handful of people, long dead and gone, the life experiences and lessons learned of our own contemporaries could serve as a learning tool for others, in a much more adaptive, and intuitive way.

That certainly has the potential to be more productive.


I wholeheartedly agree. Not to cloud an already good discussion with personal anecdotes, but, this is exactly how my own spiritual path has evolved. I had a friend who lived her life a certain way, and she encouraged me to take her footsteps, in the opposite direction. So I did, and together we found so many commonalities between the human experience. Be it man to woman, homeless to home owner, atheist to theist.

The point being that I think contemporary "teachers" are the most important teachers we have. Sure, they may build off of the old, but it takes a special kind of person to make a philosophy of 2000 years ago relevant now. Those kind of people should leave their books open for us to read... and quite possibly write "follow my footsteps... in the opposite direction" on the first page.


Religion and Government tend to corrupt one another, sometimes even evolving to be one in the same in some societies.

Keeping them seperated is no easy task. The attraction of Religion to Politics and Politics to Religion seems to be almost magnetic.

I wonder if there is a way to resolutely seperate the two, or if it's futile and to accept that the two will eventually merge?


Religions with an ulterior motive often seek governmental authority. The ulterior motive is usually to censor and confiscate a culture's way of life. A truly peaceful religion would not worry if it held the majority in the senate and congress, simply because it would not be concerned with politics, only salvation, betterment, and higher education/understandings.

Leave the politics for the dogs. People need voices, not representatives.


Make the tea free, and throw in some fabulous door prizes, and just maybe?


I'm not even going to question this. It is exactly the type of mentality and approach we need to maybe make this have a hope of succeeding.

Well played, well played.


We are in fact very close to sharing the same perspectives.

Thanks for the exceptionally thought out and written replies.


Any time. A man needs a good intellectual discussion every now and then.

At least, this man does.

~ Scribe

[edit on 11/4/10 by Wandering Scribe]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 02:12 AM
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reply to post by GrandKitaro777
 


I understand the Density Concepts and the Law of One, and that Earth is presently considered a Third Density Planet, and that Humans are Third Density Creatures.

Some people believe Wanderers and Watchers of 4th, 5th and 6th Density origins, manifest as 3rd Density Beings are present to aide in the evolution process, that some believe ultimately involves the mass Harvesting of Souls and regrouping them into either Elevated Soul Complexes of a Higher Density (typically the next Octave up on the Vibration Scale) or recycling and reincarnating those not ready to progress towards a higher path of Love, Light, Wisdom and Compassion, into another 3rd Density life experience, dimension and realm.

Conversely, if you are very good at serving your self at the expense of others with great consistency you can also evolve up an Octave but still with an eventual Karmic Debt to pay.

Some believe simple forgiveness of others for their slights, and offenses, imagined or real and acceptance of them stops the Karmic Wheel, and that Service to Others in a compassionate and wise way, can pay off previous Karmic Debt and allow for the Evolution up an Octave of Density.

So now we must ask the question, is it Wise and Compassionate to put true effort into helping those here presently evolve in this fashion.

Are we truly putting enough effort in, in that regard, or are we experiencing a lack of Love, or deficient motivation and over relying on not impinging on the Law of Confusion and Free Will?

While some might say the situation is so hopeless that it is not wise to put in more effort, some might disagree and simply see a supreme challenge as a supreme opportunity?

Are those who believe in this system truly putting forth the full effort they perhaps should and could, or are they allowing the reigning negative polarity of the planet to in essence dissuade them, to humanities detriment and their own higher self.

Is it the lesser evolved souls defectiveness, or the higher evolved souls lack of effectiveness at play, or both?

Ultimately in any system we all must try to perform to the best of our capabilities, and presently I choose hope, and the belief that all hopeful people, who truly do have love and compassion, redouble their efforts to help and serve others on that path.

Do you feel this is unwise?




[edit on 11/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 02:17 AM
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I just wanted to interject here, and commend Protoplasmic Traveler on what I consider an insane ability to keep so many discussions going at once. I've been reading along with most of this thread, and there are a lot of ideas out there, he's hitting 'em all on the head in due time. He is quite a phenomenal member.

Well done.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 02:36 AM
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Protoplasmic traveler you're good.

I'll have a response for you tomorrow, I have to sleep for work.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by Wandering Scribe
 





Thank you for the compliments. It's quite a mental gymnastics tournament for me. Going from the highly evolved and educated discussions of this board, down to some of the other boards I'm on where people can't seem to comprehend the word "fact". I desperately needed some intellectual thinking, and your thread has provided it.


There is a certain cognitive propensity by many people here on ATS to formulate ‘Fact’ based on politicized schools of thought that sometimes are totally oblivious to the multi-leveled complexities of some issues.

In many ways what is being displayed by those people who develop shared selective perspectives then considered to be fact because they are validated by like minded contemporaries and peers, is essentially what we see in the adherence to Religious Books, and Books of Personalities, put forth by Personalities.

Yet ultimately for any of us to get our points across we have to enunciate them in a language our chosen audience understands and in a style and manner that they find engrossing.

It’s about the only way to get them to reconsider and renew the retrospection, introspection process that most need to undergo to start to perceive things on different levels, beyond the one dimensional and often deceiving surface.

In a way that can represent a challenge of sorts all in its own, in formulating that language and those mannerisms that have maximum effect and impact on an audience.

As a great Bard once said, “I am the greatest Actor”.

It’s a shame that truth alone doesn’t always work, but if the act is one committed with honest intent, and purpose, some would argue it’s worth the effort.




I wholeheartedly agree. Not to cloud an already good discussion with personal anecdotes, but, this is exactly how my own spiritual path has evolved. I had a friend who lived her life a certain way, and she encouraged me to take her footsteps, in the opposite direction. So I did, and together we found so many commonalities between the human experience. Be it man to woman, homeless to home owner, atheist to theist.

The point being that I think contemporary "teachers" are the most important teachers we have. Sure, they may build off of the old, but it takes a special kind of person to make a philosophy of 2000 years ago relevant now. Those kind of people should leave their books open for us to read... and quite possibly write "follow my footsteps... in the opposite direction" on the first page.



Actually what inspired me to author this thread, is a fellow member confided earlier today that they were committing some of my posts to paper for safekeeping and posterity in case for some reason the Internet or Freedom of the Internet was lost.

It was a very humbling compliment, but it also got me thinking, is this how in a certain fashion the Religious Books of Personalities and Perspectives really ended up coming into being during previous times of widespread upheaval and change. Could it have been as simple and innocuous at first, of some third party writing down the words of another they felt particularly insightful or helpful, or meaningful so as not to forget them and loose them and share them?

That made me wonder, since I am by no means alone here, what would other Member’s Books look like, read like, what would they want to teach us all, and have remembered, if their outlooks and perspectives were incorporated into a religion, not because they wanted them to be, but others saw some value in doing that, then what would they be.

What would be the Book of the Wandering Scribe, and just maybe in this day and age of Global communication, who all would see some value and benefit in learning through and vicariously experiencing the Wandering Scribe’s and others perspectives, life experiences, philosophies and values?

How many of us might share on a similar core level and not even know it, simply for a lack of communication?

We as a species are communicating more and more, but it’s a lot of talking at people, and not always listening.

I wanted to create a thread where Members would be encouraged to both talk, but more importantly to listen and consider, hoping that perhaps, many would see, deep down at a core level we share so many commonalities its dubious and bordering on insane to let ourselves be divided by driving forces, talking at us, through mass media, religion and government, when we really might be better served truly talking to and with and listening to and learning about one another.




Leave the politics for the dogs. People need voices, not representatives.


We are more and more living in a world where people’s voices are not really being heard and definitely not being listened too.

This is really just causing people to turn up the audible volume and tone of their rhetoric in frustration.

Anger and fear runs rampant, but the truth is that all of us are more inclined to strain to hear a whisper, while alternately covering our ears and blocking out those who are shouting.

I wonder if it’s possible to create a whisper that grows a hush that creates a calm that might deescalate the tensions to where people might consider not just talking but listen to one another too.

We see a lot of threads where people tell us this and tell us that, and predict this and predict that.

It tends to put some on the defensive and others on the offensive, so I thought it might be wonderful to great a thread where someone is just asking, and asking everyone, not for a specific answer, with the intent of rejecting any other answer, but all answers and everyone’s answers with the mind to really listen to and consider them, and to get people talking and sharing, and to get people listening and considering.

I really do believe we all might be able to create a critical mass if we can just stop all the shouting and arguing, and start really talking and listening.

Maybe it’s just wishful thinking and dreaming, but what could such efforts truly harm?




Any time. A man needs a good intellectual discussion every now and then.


We need to feed our minds, and not just our stomachs. As the saying in business goes crap in, crap out.

I am of the humble opinion we need to upgrade the quality of our questions and quality of our answers and discussions so that we do feed each others minds. So much of the present rhetoric taking place is designed to feed emotions, which are primordial and not really intellectual in nature. A lot of crap is being pushed down on people through the media and the government and religion too, and naturally a lot of crap is coming out the other end.

In my humble opinion the more we feed our minds, the more positive, and helpful information is going to get out there into circulation into the pool, and maybe even create some gooses that lay some golden eggs of knowledge instead of just emotional rants and tirades.

The elites have little reason to educate us to our full potential based on their preferred system of manipulation and control, so it does become contingent upon us to educate ourselves, elevate ourselves, and empower one another by helping one another to do this through feeding our minds.

It is perhaps the only way we will evolve.

Thanks for really participating on that golden level!



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 03:02 AM
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Like GrandKitaro, I too must sleep.

But I read through your response just now, and there is a lot in there that I would like to comment on.

~ Scribe



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 03:07 AM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Like GrandKitaro, I too must sleep.

But I read through your response just now, and there is a lot in there that I would like to comment on.

~ Scribe


Thanks for staying up late to share, I really enjoyed it, and I hope we can continue the discussion further when its convenient and appropriate for you.

Rest well, and be well.

Thanks again.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Xtraeme
 


Meaning as a position I'm advocating omni-gnosticism and -theism. Which, admittedly, is a fairly subtle and nuanced orientation, but one that strikes me as rather open-minded and capable of adapting to a changing reality.

Thank you so much, clearly you have put some significant thought into this.

I have a funny suspicious many of us have, and that in a lot of ways what you are advocating is precisely what I am wondering is possible. Can we as a species create our evolving system, a user friendly one that emanates from the ground up to the top of the Pyramid, instead of emanating from the top and forced down upon us?


I think the only way this will happen is if we intellectualize the subject. When something takes on the mental drapery of belief it becomes extremely personal. I'd have to agree with Wandering Scribe that the only way this could work is if we treat our nuanced ideals as "open books." Allowing anyone to peak in with the assumption that there's mutual respect.

This is of course rather difficult when two ideologies are diametrically opposed with one another. It's only through humble appraisal, accepting that there are many possible solutions, that this Unitarian system could occur.

A number of people would be opposed to the idea on the simple premise that unlike science any strange idea could be introduced in to the pot with little to no vetting process.

The way to truly allow for all of these ideologies to flow forward, without curtailing anyone, but allowing them to play off of each other in a constructive manner would be to find common elements that are considered near universally accepted amongst all people.

This is somewhat difficult at present because we, as a species, can't even find agreement over whether or not there is such a thing as a higher force (whether panentheistic, deistic, or poly/mono-theistic).

This is why philosophy / gnosticism has been the closest thing to a middle ground. It attempts to use logic and recurring patterns in holy-texts to look for general truths.

What would be necessary for all of these thing to come together as an omni-gnostic / theistic system is a phenomenology that binds science, math, physics, cosmology, cosmogony, history, philosophy, theosophy, theology, everything together.

Edmund Husserl, the man who coined the term phenomenology, sought this himself -- to make philosophy scientifically rigorous.

The scarcity concept / hypothesis (SH) is the nearest thing I've encountered that comes close to actually fitting this bill. It's based on a mathematically-philosophical premise. It fits physical plots of the density of the universe. The concept objectively fits historical / anthropological evidence. It coincides with just about every major belief system I've investigated in rather profound ways; and the concept allows for both atheism & theism.

If there's a common holistic base to be established it's very likely to be found somewhere in that concept.


Is there a path to accession that we can mutually discover through real cooperation amongst ourselves instead of having something omnipresent hovering above us and forcing it down upon us.

If I understand you correctly, you feel its possible we could, in fact do such a thing, and one of the avenues I would like to explore in this thread, is the possibility that not only would such an bottom to top approach be better, but has it never in fact happened before, because we as people, have never openly and honestly communicated amongst ourselves to the extent where such mutual goal oriented partnership could be possible?


This is what worries me the most.

One of the reasons I have such an immense appreciation of the sciences is because we have a mechanism to check ourselves. Any form of spirituality that compels a large enough group of people eventually takes the form of codified religious doctrine. When this eventually occurs it's very difficult to incorporate change and deal with adjustment.

This results in the all too common problem where an orthodox religious leader decrees, "This thing is right!" and "That thing is wrong!"

I've noticed in discussing SH with people it's attracted followers. While most people would find this flattering and desirable, I'd much prefer equals who are interested in helping explore the concept rather than looking for an authoritative source to disseminate information.

This led me to the conclusion that for something like this to be truly grass roots it would require all people to have access to the same tools. Such that each person could help find new interpretations and commonalities that would grow the subject in an open and progressive manner.

I think Terrence McKenna had a rather profound idea when he distributed his Timewave Zero application. By opening it up to the public he was allowing other people to use their own sequences (King Wen, Sheliak, etc) and perform their own analysis.

I think a holistic spiritual system needs some sort of tool-set, whether that be meditation, rationalized comparative analysis, or what have you, all put together in a cohesive text. Allowing for each person to become a fisher of spiritual information and to help bring that information back to the group.

The trick is how do we establish the accuracy of this information? Once we start basing it on perceived honesty it sets the stage for abuse.

It's a tricky problem, but one that I think can be solved.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Xtraeme]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 





I think a holistic spiritual system needs some sort of tool-set, whether that be meditation, rationalized comparative analysis, or what have you, all put together in a cohesive text. Allowing for each person to become a fisher of spiritual information and to help bring that information back to the group.

The trick is how do we establish the accuracy of this information? Once we start basing it on perceived honesty it sets the stage for abuse.

It's a tricky problem, but one that I think can be solved.



That is an excellent observation and question as Religion by Committee likely would have the same pitfalls as Government by Committee.

Where Dictators and Autocrats are generally quick to become corrupt, Committee Rule just takes a bit more time and actually present more ways to corrupt, because the multiplying factor of more people involved, increases the unique opportunities to corrupt, as well as being able to use synergy to corrupt, with different corrupt digits of the quotient sometimes not even knowing what their individual compromise is truly designed to, and will yield.

Expanding the democratic concept further to give all the congregants a vote might not be any more effective in preventing debilitating and limiting distortions because there are so many things out there in the Universe we as humans are yet to understand. So it would be easy then in theory for everyone to agree on something based on current levels of understanding to preclude something that might in fact lead to attitudes and approaches that keep us from ever discovering, and understanding certain elements and their functions and purposes.

For instance there was a time when it was universally and generally accepted the Earth was flat, and it was wrong, and dangerous to dispute that or disprove it. It would be criminal and murderous for a Captain to risk the lives of his crew by risking going past demarcation zones off into the sunset and right off the edge of the world!

So yes, we need a way to guard against those kinds of limiting premises.

While another example is that it was once considered the only way to really heal anyone in a way that was not offensive to God was through leeches attached to the person, who would then suck their blood and purge their disease. That then sometimes led directly to death by leeching, while at other times indirectly to death by lack of some more specifically designed effective treatment for the ailment.

So I guess a big question is there a way for a religion to evolve that doesn’t lead to taking us all over the edge of the proverbial cliff and into the abyss as we work our way up and out to a greater understanding of the Universe and our Nature.

Ultimately in my humble opinion that is where religion should mirror the functions of science, in formulating those perspectives and philosophies that allow us to best understand and interact with the Universe and Nature in increasingly effective ways that yield a greater and greater collective benefit for all.

Finding those safety mechanisms might be critical.

For instance many people believe the Maya may have disappeared in mass in some type of self triggered spiritual, mystical or scientific event they initiated.
If that’s true it creates some interesting questions as well as some interesting problems. Did they end up where they intended to go? Did they all in fact really want to go there, and did they all really know there would be no coming back, and where they all in fact truly in agreement on that.

Science like mysticism represents some real gambles, it is alleged that when they tested the first Atomic Bomb that some of the Scientists were not sure if the chain reaction would be contained and stop at some point, or whether it might just expand to destroy the entire planet and possibly even the Universe.

It is said President Roosevelt made the go ahead decision to give it a try.

Yet had he been wrong and that decision resulted in the ultimate and total destruction of the race, planet or Universe, 99.999999% of the people effected would have never had a say or known of the chain of events leading up to it.

So to a certain extent both Religion and Science might need better Safeguard Mechanisms as they continue to develop and grow.

Conversely there is an Indian Sect who believes that the Universe was created by a perfect musical note that created a vibration that led to the chaos that kicked up and then formed the matter of the Universe into the Universe we know.

They also believe that there is a perfect musical note that would reverse the process and effectively collapse the Universe back on itself by modifying the resonating frequency it vibrates and energizes itself, by then audibly resonating that anti-note.

So Religion and Science are both looked at as things and by groups as things, and tools, to both create and destroy.

Can effective safeguards ever really be formulated, or is the nature of the temporal universe such, that its folly to assume safeguards could ever prevent us as a species from creating our own traps, and even ultimate downfall?

Great post, thanks for taking the time to illustrate all those things for us.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."


en.wikipedia.org...

Great thread here my friend. A new religion? I believe the golden rule should be the first priority. I know it that it takes much understanding to implement this into our daily comings and goings but it is something that I try to remember.

We need to understand that by letting go of our desires and selfishness and putting others before them is truly fulfilling. Not that I can do this all of the time, I am human by the way, but I do try to remember this. I find that when I can truly implement this into my interactions with others, those wants and desires that I have are fulfilled ten fold.

This idea you have shows the desire for us to find common ground and unify in a way that is productive for everyone and by the responses in the thread I can tell that you are not the only one who feels this way. We have been pulled apart for far too long and have been kept at eachothers throats by silly misunderstandings and yes, selfishness. I cannot believe that an all knowing and understanding God meant for us to be this way.

Can there be common ground that everyone agrees upon? Yes, and I believe the golden rule is a great place to begin. There was a story in the New Testament where someone who was trying to wrap his head around what God was saying in the Bible was able to ask Jesus Himself what it all meant and what God was saying.


Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


It is amazing because in the these two commandments we are acknowledging a creator and using Him as a catalyst to put others before us. So all the petty divisions can be done away with by using the golden rule. Let me explain further.

You don't like someone because they are gay? Well treat them as you would want them to treat you.

You don't like Muslims or Christians? It doesn't matter, treat them as you would want them to treat you.

You don't like that person because they are dirty? Treat them as you would want them to treat you.

You don't like the attitude of your co-worker? Treat them as you would want them to treat you.

You don't like this group of people because they believe something entirely different than you? Treat them as you would want them to treat you.

I can go on and on in this way, I hope you see what I am getting at. The thing is, when we put ourselves in someone elses shoes for a moment and realize that they are the way they are because of upbringing or societal memes we realize that they are still human beings and in need of fellowship and comfort just like anyone else. The petty differences can be forgotten and we can focus on what it is that makes us all the same.

If God's law can be summed up in those two commandments than God can find no fault in accepting and embracing any other human being on the planet. We know what is right and we know what is wrong. I am not saying embrace inherently evil behavior that some might display but then again I believe we know what is right and what is wrong. By utilizing the golden rule we can also understand that exhortation and imparting wise council is something that we would want others to do for us if we do not realize we are being wrong.

Am I making sense Proto? Star and flagged all the way my friend!



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."



this I can somewhat agree with, it is quite similar to the "law of attraction"
what you put out is what you get.




en.wikipedia.org...

Great thread here my friend. A new religion? I believe the golden rule should be the first priority. I know it that it takes much understanding to implement this into our daily comings and goings but it is something that I try to remember.



from wikipedia link you gave:


The Golden Rule is an ethical code that states one has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others.


I'd have to disagree.
"Justice" is probably one of the worst things that ever happened to this planet.
Justice limits infinite-beings and only applies to the subservient class.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the commandment "thou shalt not judge".
It was the first commandment at some point. maybe thousands of years ago.
Let karma take care of things.
Do not taint yourself with aiding the "punishments" of vengence justice,
if you wish to remain a pure soul of love and harmony.


For infinite beings, must be allowed infinite expression and action.

Though I grok that not all people agree with me.
So I propose atom tribes,
groups with as many members as a stable atom has protons.
each atom tribe having their own belief systems.

they can connect with neighbouring atoms to form molecules, cells, bodies.

keeping distance from other atoms as atoms do,
trading by the use of electron proxies,
an avatar or neutral entity you wouldn't mind never seeing again.

If there is truly a person you wish not to have in your tribe,
then banishment is acceptable, and best.
minimize quantum binding.
having left they can reincarnate elsewhere.

I'm amazed that black people in america can call for justice,
when it's so clear they are the main victims of this institutionalized predator.

Please note, that predators, death and killing are part of the natural way of things.
Look at nature, predators help improve populations, keeping them in balance with nature.
Note that there are many different predators, and any entity that wishes to be one can be.

infinite beings with infinite expression.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by lowki]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


Hey Jackflap my friend thanks for sharing and weighing in.

I personally like the Golden Rule, which is currently being utilized more along the lines of “He who has the Gold rules!”

I think most of us are just about fed up and had it with that approach though.

The Golden Rule seems so simple on the surface, so simple in fact; it’s hard to believe where adherence to that basic concept has gone wrong.

Let’s luck at the Rule itself for clues “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you”.

Now what this Rule failed to address is the often dysfunctional nature of our own individual emotional and intellectual psyche.

There is such a thing as a Masochist.

Masochists love physical and or mental pain and anguish, it has an erotic sexual factor for some, an excitement sensation factor for others, and for others still the ability to trade one unpleasant anguish, for a more preferred and palpable one.

So we must ask ourselves if a Masochist desires pain or humiliation from others, then how can they achieve that through the application of the Golden Rule, and that’s simple to be sadistic and domineering towards others to provoke a sadistic reaction that fulfills their Masochistic needs.

One of the inherent pitfalls we face in formulating Religion, Laws and systems of governance is that we assume that everyone essentially has our own psychological makeup.

Yet, we know this is not true, psychopaths, sycophants, sadists and masochists abound.

Believe it or not they too are utilizing the Golden Rule, which Crawley basically modified the wording off to render a more accurate description of what it is “Do what thou will”.

Now it is true some masochists are masochistic by nature, as a manifestation of traumas experienced in life, that they have never truly internalized in a healthy way, that continue to cause them anguish years and even decades after they have occurred. The loss of a loved one at a tender age or critical juncture and the profound feelings of isolation and abandonment that causes some, the suffering of abuse through incest or rape, or some other violent attack on their person on property by others, and the failure to reach a cherished and highly sought goal or objective, like I really was a good enough painter to be an famous Artist but no one saw the value in my art, so now I wash dishes.

These people go through life focused on pain, disappointment and trauma and live it over and over again in their minds. We all know people like that, 10 years after a divorce they are still bitter and angry, 10 years after the death of a loved one they are still remorseful and grieving, 10 years after loosing a job they are still unemployed and bitter.

These are Mental Masochists who inflict endless pain and suffering on themselves through a lack of desire to healthy internalize, learn from, and grow from their experiences and then productively move on through life.

For the Mental Masochist the only escape from that self inflicted pain that causes them the most anguish is to invite different forms of pain or humiliation to take their minds off of it. This manifests itself in different ways, but the truth is they need to prod others into aiding them in delivering that fresh and different pain or humiliation to take their focus off of the existing pain in a relieving way.

So they are absolutely going to do unto others what does entice and prods them into unpleasant reactions, by doing something unpleasant to them.

There also exists Physical Masochists who purely enjoy the sensation of pain, which it is said there is a fine line between pleasure and pain, and that line is in fact perspective, because both pain and pleasure are in fact sensations.

I find the sensation of a grainy and sandy textured strawberry on my tongue to be absolute torture, yet others see them as absolutely delicious and pleasurable.

So it becomes a matter of perspective for most of us in varying degrees in varied situations, on varied level what constitutes pain and pleasure, good and bad.

This is why the Golden Rule doesn’t really work, is really more akin to do thou what thoust will, and typically leads to He or She who has the Gold rules and controls. That Gold might be pain for a masochist, pleasure for a sentient, money for a worker, spirituality or knowledge for a disciple or supplicant, or a Fat Burger with Chili, Cheese, onion, mayo, and lettuce, charbroiled for a Protoplasmic Traveler, which as good as it is, can lead to heartburn and anguish in some.

Where we as a species are individually stumbling the most, in my humble opinion is the self belief that everyone else should be able to identify with our own perspectives on fundamental things like pleasure and pain, good and evil, right and wrong, and the truth is that we just aren’t all cut from the same cloth and same mold.

We alternately go back and forth from assuming when we want to get a point across everyone is intelligent enough to see things the same way, and when others are trying to get a point across we don’t agree with, that it’s because they lack our same level of intelligence.

Because people are different, with different perspectives on the fundamentals, it’s hard not to notice the differences that are sometimes slight and some times glaring in their dimensions and size.

Currently the controlled school of thought is we should fear those with different perspectives, and that they are somehow wrong, likely a threat, and one way or another through religion, through government, through war be made to conform to an homogenous standard that a dominant group shares, that becomes so dominant, it assimilates everyone into it of a different mindset by forcing them to alter perspective, behavior, beliefs and habits, or eliminates completely those through violent or other exclusionary means like imprisonment those who don’t share them.

Our fears are thus manipulated by the Powers that Be in Government, in Religion, in Business, to believe in that process of assimilation or elimination by any and all means.

That is what divide and conquer warfare is all about, using divisions to eliminate and assimilate one another.

Where do the divisions ultimately stem from, the Golden Rule, because some of us, do in fact do unto others what we want done to us, but they really aren’t want others want done unto them!

So how then could we make a New Golden Rule, a Primary Rule that eliminates this inherent pitfall?

Any thoughts my friend?



[edit on 11/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



So how then could we make a New Golden Rule, a Primary Rule that eliminates this inherent pitfall?

Any thoughts my friend?


We can simply leave it as "what you put out is what you get".

If someone is a sadomasochist they should be allowed to live such a lifestyle.

If an entity don't fit in with their local atom-tribe community,
An atom-tribe of people with similar beliefs can be found for them to participate in.
If not they could form a new tribe.

All lifes lessons are acceptable for making souls more complete.


[edit on 11-4-2010 by lowki]



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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hey-
what's wrong with buddhism?
it teaches everything we need to know to be truly happy.
it's more a philisophy or psychology than a religion........

honestly though- this thread is masturbation-
there already is a new world religion prepared by the UN and Alice Bailey.
this chatter is really a distraction from working on your self and not on the entire world (and Mars?)

good luck in your spiritual pursuits and if you need an -ism, you're already lost



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by lowki
 





If someone is a sadomasochist they should be allowed to live such a lifestyle.


They are in fact learning, and living and evolving through that path, many rivers leading to one sea.

Yet through that example we can see that the Golden Rule as many envision and believe in it can yield far different results than they imagine and anticipate.

So how can we then through a New Religion safeguard that people can evolve in a way that is natural to them, and should their be a gauge that employs any kind of mechanism that causes intervention when someone becomes stuck in a loop, that causes them to stumble time and time again on their chosen path towards evolution?

Or should we respect that perhaps some people have such an affection and attachment to a certain type of lifestyle and conditions and circumstances, that no matter how unpleasant or damaging they appear to be, to that soul, they should be left alone for an eternity if need be, to stay in that place and state that they so love, even though we can’t really imagine why they so love it, even while they themselves claim not to really love it?

In other words how to we curb and temper our own often inherent propensity to nurture and rescue others, even when they don’t really want to be rescued and nurtured, and how do we learn to stop seeing a threat to ourselves in letting them wander their own path?

The tribal concept is a good one, providing we can create and accept a mechanism that accepts those tribes right to exist and be, as opposed to self fulfilling wishes and desires and perceived needs to rescue them from what we imagine to be themselves and inherently faulty thinking?

How do we teach people all rivers reach the sea, and one is as good as the next one, and concepts of timeliness and efficiency are simply a matter of self perspective, when it comes to the desire to intervene, fueled by hope or fear?





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