The New Religion

reply to post by GrandKitaro777


Those all do sound like very reasonable and worthwhile things.

What else would you put in the Book of Grand Kitaro if you would be a Hero of the shift to the New Age?

Would you keep it that simple and easy to understand? Or would you write a few more things into it?

I appreciate you sharing, thanks for posting.

You have written an excelent thread S & F

I would say God would be irrelevent in this new reality.

1.
Everybody would have the freedom to believe what they like.

2.
Any promotion and deliberate spreading of this believe outside of the privacy of homes and asigned meeting places for the like minded will be punished.

3.
People will have to follow only a few rules. Which are basicly already around.
You will not steel.
You will not murder.
You will not stick your nose into other peoples life styles.
You will not promote anything what could lead to hate.
You are not allowed to work untill your children are old enough to go to school. ( As long as there is a parent present. any parent.) So no day care.
You will not do anything to anyone you do not want others to do to you.
You are forbidden to pay interest or demand and/or ask for it.
You are not allowed to ignore those in need.
You will not deliberately bring or cause harm to anything living.
You are not allowed to sue for money for emotional damage. Only the true cost of any damage.


You are expected to be a rat but only when one of the above rules is broken.

All of the rules above will be punished by death by the first law inforcer in place on the spot.


I'm sorry I tried.
I can not think of any particular reason what would make a religion ( let alone a forced one ) should be around.

I can only say that we can and should not judge anyone who does not uses religion to violate anyones physical and or mental health and freedom

Thank you for another good thread Protoplasmic!

It seems prudent to include another little roundup of the nwo version of religion, in case anyone still needs it. Lucis Trust HQ are located in Geneva, and work closely behind the scenes to cement the foundations of a global religion.

"Alice Ann Bailey, a leading disciple of the Russian theosophist Madame Helena Blavatsky, formed the Lucifer Publising Company in 1920. 1922 saw the organization's name changed to Lucis Trust though the advancement of the Luciferian beliefs remained true. Beliefs that in Blavatsky's words: “oppose the materialism of science and every dogmatic theology, especially the Christian, which the Chiefs of the Society regard as particularly pernicious.”

Lucis Trust promulgates the work of an "Ascended Master" who was working 'through' Alice Bailey for some 30 years. The Lucis Trust Publishing Company and their many fronts and organizations worship an "Externalized Hierarchy" of "Ascended Masters," who carry out the work of a Luciferian "master plan" for the establishment of a permanent "Age of Aquarius" ruled by one "Sanat Kumara", the "Lord of the World." "

www.conspiracyarchive.com...
www.conspiracyarchive.com...

While we see the Buhddist Maitreya Project travelling worldwide as a wholesome example of love and peace to the world, we have another nwo Maitreya lurking via Johnathon Creme, on his SHARE Intl. website - a mysterious figure heralded as the new messiah, who makes random appearances to small groups of people around the globe. SHARE has had notable dignitaries from among the elite visit his site for over a decade now.

What follows in this link is an excellant breakdown of the nwo religion, as it mirrors Christianity, which it moulds itself as the antithesis of. Just as there is a Holy Trinity, there is an unholy trinity being presented.

www.redmoonrising.com...

Technology will take the place of the Holy Spirit, speculatively using blue beam technology, elf towers (etc) and other forms of widespread brainwashing and mind control. We will apparantly be able to hear the voices of the so-called dieties they groom for power - and to the half of the reign, this is to be a "friendly" religion.

www.educate-yourself.org...
www.educate-yourself.org...

It is my suspicion that plans will change, as now too much might be known.
Either way, as a Christian I will contend that when Satan does spread his foul wings in the guise of a nwo leader, it will be as an empty shell of a tyrant, already beaten intellectually and ideologically, yet in power for a few last years anyway. God is, and always will be in control ! Justice just takes some time to build up I have learned and accepted.

The Rosicrucian order/ideologies from 15th century Venice is largely responsible directly and indirectly (abeit through a most convoluted passage) for modern day pedophilia and church corruption and fracturing. Please do not blame practicing Christians for the evils of the organized church. There was, and is, an enemy at work. Confessions of Freemasons have revealed that child sacrifices take place in hidden chambers Under the Vatican.

One more important add: Tom Horn, Apollyon Rising ... his blogs start in April (left hand side) at Defenderpublishing.blogspot.com. He outlines the masonic plot for America, the spiritual significances as they relate back to the ancient worship of Apollo, and it's relativity to the book of Revelations.

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.--Rev 9:11

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Northwarden]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

If there must be a New One World Religion, what should it really be like?

Assuming I had a say I'd advocate a Western philosophical approach based on reason. Even though a number of people feel this is rather cold and too analytical, for me, it was through well reasoned philosophy I realized spirituality wasn't entirely hog-wash. To be more specific, this scarcity concept, based on anthropological and physical evidence, struck me as so logically cohesive it basically suggested that God, as a concept, is a future inevitability. Spurring me to investigate a number of older belief systems.

Cross-referencing the Scarcity Hypothesis, based heavily on Sartre's exegesis on the subject, linked above, against some of the worlds oldest holy texts exposes some uncanny similarities suggesting this isn't the first time this has happened either:

1. Tao/ Bā gùa/ I Ching, Kabbalah, Sufism, Bahá'í, Hindu Tantric, & Kabbalistic tie-ins v.1.9.3 (Fig. 2.3, 3.1, & 6)
   
2. Judaic / Christian connection v1.9.8c (Fig. 2.2, 7, & 8)
   
3. `Law of one` tie-ins v1.9.7

Note: the figures above reference a number of other diagrams all of which can be found here.

So I think we do ourselves a disservice by separating things in to discrete unchanging piles. I have a hunch that eventually things that are, truthfully, unknowable will become knowable. Allowing for the world to rationally segue from objective agnosticism (knowledge of God/gods being truthfully unknowable) to gnosticism (objectively knowable). Meaning rather than looking at things as static and unchanging, we should change our position to one of dynamism.

Accepting the possibility that we may live in a world where atheism (the notion that no God or gods exist) may be true, but also realizing that it doesn't mean that things will always be that way. Instead realizing up-front that there is a pathway leading to such a reality.

Put another way it seems more reasonable to say that there must be a time in human history where the conceptions of God are objectively unknowable, but, likewise, the subject must also reach conclusion.

Meaning as a position I'm advocating omni-gnosticism and -theism. Which, admittedly, is a fairly subtle and nuanced orientation, but one that strikes me as rather open-minded and capable of adapting to a changing universe.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Xtraeme]

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

But I digress. Certain beliefs are built upon the desire to bring everyone on the planet into the flock, so my view just isn't possible without a paradigm change in humanity as a whole.

The New Age is about a Paradigm shift. So in reality anything is in theory possible.

Religion is pretty much just Doctrine, God said this, and Jesus said that, and Buddha said this and Mohamed said that, and so on and so forth.

Which in all reality is little different than Grandma said this, and Father said that, and Teacher said this, and Wife or Husband said that, or Tom, Dick and Harry said this or that.

We have simply adopted wholesale other people’s individual perspectives on life, the universe, and our place in it, either voluntarily in some fashion or another, or through some type of pressure of one fashion or another.

So why couldn’t that Paradigm Shift then be about in The Land of The Wandering Scribe, according to the Book of the Wandering Scribe…

1.
2.
3.
4.

a.
b.
c.
d.

While elsewhere in the Land of Skeptic Overlord, according to the Book of Skeptic Overlord…

1.
2.
3.
4.

a.
b.
c.
c.

Why the Paradigm Shift shouldn’t be based upon people who truly share real beliefs in common gravitating towards and being grouped with one another in truly respected and respectful place makes no real sense.

Ultimately these religious beliefs, which are really just doctrines, based on one or a few people’s perspectives, and views on life and the universe, and how we should interact and what we should devote ourselves, manifests themselves into codes and laws.

So rather than create societies where people are in essence criminalized by doing and being what comes natural to them, why not create societies and lands where people dwell within respected borders, based on total voluntary belief in that’s the way to live and be that they most enjoy and is right for them.

If the different major personality and lifestyle subsets all had their own Book, and there was no right or wrong in the choice, and one could freely make a choice, wouldn’t that represent a Paradigm Shift?

Couldn’t we all agree to just let each other be, if we each got to live in a place and in a way, where how we wanted to live and be, was accepted and desired genuinely by everyone within those geographical confines?

Laws by the people, instead of for the people, based on true shared philosophy, lifestyle, and perspective, with the only universal rule everyone had to share, is to respect the other person’s right to live that way in their own house, in their own land?

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Those are all pretty simple basic simple things in theory we should all perhaps be able to agree on!

That in my humble opinion ought to be more or less the kind of system we adopt if and when we must have a new one.

Simple, basic, easy to understand nothing really vague or subject to determination through creative interpretation, would make it hard for someone to need to violate, or live in a state of Sin or Guilt.

I wonder if we could all agree that just having some clear, simple, basic expectations of one another and our responsibilities to one another might in fact be a lot more sensible, peaceful and productive, than page after page, and chapter after chapter and rule after rule, all subject to creative interpretation.

Great post, thanks for staying up and taking the time to share it with us!

reply to post by GrandKitaro777


I agree.

If people come to see the universe as infinent (which doesnt require a tele or micro scope, more correctly those tools cannot prove infinity only hint at the size) Then we will shortly after or simultaneously realize infinity is unity. Manyness is a finite concept, there is no such thing as seperate only the illusion of it. This would mean if people are going to "worship" something they will all worshipping the one infinite creation regardless of race, planet, glaxy or universe they come from. It truely is a universal belief.

"All is one" is almost like an instant cure for the world problems. People will see others as themself. People will see the folly of benefiting the self at the cost to others. Sharing of all things including knowledge will be the only way because after all there is only one of us here, experiencing many different facets of the same being. Our individuality seperation is a temporary illusion to provide the miniscule start of the increadible timeless ride of re-merging with the all that is. Our first step of this mergence is to unite with the other humans on this planet, a difficult one, but the reward will have been worth it. Remember "me" and "we" is the same thing.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by GrandKitaro777

 

Those all do sound like very reasonable and worthwhile things.

What else would you put in the Book of Grand Kitaro if you would be a Hero of the shift to the New Age?

Would you keep it that simple and easy to understand? Or would you write a few more things into it?

I appreciate you sharing, thanks for posting.

I would establish Laws, I won't add more information unless it's ethically positive and this information can be proven with rationale or reasoning.

A positive ethical law is humanity working as one, which your modern day religion fail to consider. Secondly, humanity ought to be self depending/self staining rather than putting their dependency on some shadowy figure in the sky, which stunt their growth as a empowered individual. Thirdly, I don't believe the universe has a "wall" at the supposed end of it, it stretches out infinitely and if so, unity logically consequent that.

reply to post by Northwarden


That’s a lot of great information and background on what's out there, that we all ought to be aware of.

Forewarned is after all forearmed!

Are there any of them you find enticing or elements of any of them you find enticing.

If you were the Supreme Leader of the World, and the people demanded some type of religion from you, any type of religion from you, to fulfill some inherent need in them for that, what would you suggest or create for them?

Some of us in fact would prefer no religion, while some of us really can’t imagine a life without religion.

So assuming many people just wouldn’t be happy or productive or healthy without one, what would you offer up?

Thanks for taking the time to put together those links and synopsis for us.

Big star!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Dock9

 

Thanks for sharing that Dock9, I appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts on what would be ideal for them.

In that regard, there probably are no rights or wrongs.

So you see harmony through uniformity and trustable ultimate authority determining that as the way to go, based on a collective and shared concept of right and wrong on the simplest, base level?

Thanks for sharing.

Thank you Proto

I'll be completely honest here and say that what I wrote in my earlier post is just something I 'see' on the screen of my mind from time to time.

It began when I was 6 or 7, with the following vision. Every since, it's remained, similar to a 'real' event

The sense of calm which accompanied the vision was profound

I saw something akin to a laboratory. People in white smocks. Suspended, were tear-shaped, opaque balloon-type things, reasonably large. Inside each was a developing foetus. These were being monitored and had tubes attached which were used to deliver carefully measured and individually prescribed nutrients, etc.

People of my era, if they were told anything at all, were advised as children that babies were delivered by storks and/or found in cabbages. There was no such thing as sex education. Usually, we just arrived home from school to be told we had a 'new' baby brother or sister. We hadn't noticed our mother's pregnancy

So, odd vision experienced by a little kid who only much later learned what a laboratory was, let alone struggled to find reason for a much earlier vision of synthetic wombs growing babies in controlled environment

It's the same with my visions of a future world being organised around a god-free society. Which don't conform at all with my posts in other threads, in which I profess a belief in an indescribable God far removed from the Biblical version

The 'me' writing this post has no reason to believe any ultimate authority could be ever be even 80% trustworthy. So, lots of ground to be covered if what I see for the future is to become reality

How it might be achieved is unknown to me and could only be guesswork: perhaps man-made or natural cataclysms which take the world to the brink of extinction with corresponding and massive decrease in world-population ? This would offer a clean-slate. Or, maybe DNA-banks would be utlizied to create a 'new human', simultaneous with the systematic erradication of remnants of the old model ?

To be considered also is that although we rebel to varying degrees against current authorities, whom we believe very often to be largely corrupt to the point of insanity -- and although millions despise the concept of a new-world order -- we should possibly consider our own decisions, were we responsible for a rapidly-growing world-population amidst a plethora of competing religions, etc. ? It's quite possible that were we in the position of 'ultimate authority', we may make decisions about the fate of billions which would in fact make our current authorities appear benevolent in comparison

The current model has been staggering along for thousands of years like a horror-slasher movie without end. People 'hope' for 'peace', yet most can't even get along with their neighbours or co-workers. There are those who appreciate living under the authoritarian-umbrella for the sense of security and order it attempts to provide, just as there are those whose 'rebel' pedal is stuck to the floor, regardless of the situation. The rest fall somewhere in between and alternate in tune with possible benefits for themselves

'United we stand, divided we fall '

This world could be likened to a ship with dozens of captains and rabble for crew. Only now, perhaps, are we realising what a small ship we sail in and what an enormous (cosmically speaking) ocean we sail upon

Currently, we're like a disfunctional family riven by backstabbing, envy, hatred, revenge. We're sinking ourselves, time after time. We've been made neurotic, paranoid, suspicious, self-serving, cruel, ruthless . This has sickened and weakened us

Maybe it's time we studied the natural world afresh ? Herds of wild animals or shoals of fish. They form herds and shoals for protection, in order the majority will survive. And as such, each individual unit conforms with the rest, of necessity. Watching the maneuvres of a shoal of fish is similar to observing a flock of birds. They move in unison. They conform in appearance. Coral is comprised of millions of individual polyps, rather than each polyp attempting to go it alone. A jellyfish is an organism giving the appearance of an individual entity, yet it's comprised of millions of organisms, similar to a termite mound

It could be argued that in order to survive and progress, we need to pull together, unite. And in order to do that, perhaps, the artificial differences require to be despatched

It might also be argued that in order for this to be achieved will require ruthless programmes devised by seemingly ruthless authorities. A team of surgeons, in fact, who operate in the conviction that in order to save the body, this or that limb or organ requires to be excised. Or, as our grandparents used to say, 'Being cruel to be kind' ?

Simple - would be the face of my new religion.
Respect Humanity above all else - it's one commandment.
Ideas Make Us Human - it's dogma.
That's it.

gj

reply to post by GrandKitaro777


The Book of Grand Kitaro is starting to shape up.

I wonder if at some point the universe actually loops back on itself in a grand circle.

The Circle of Life.

I have often mused that those polarized so far to the Left often end up coming around through the back door to the Right, and those on the far Right and up coming through the back door to the left.

So many things in life seem to be circular and cycler, I often wonder if that is just because we are stuck in a rut or a truly closed loop exists?

Religion is pretty much just Doctrine, God said this, and Jesus said that, and Buddha said this and Mohamed said that, and so on and so forth.

Which in all reality is little different than Grandma said this, and Father said that, and Teacher said this, and Wife or Husband said that, or Tom, Dick and Harry said this or that.

The religious mentality, and the familial mentality are different though. The religious minded Father seeks to deceive a child into believing the Church or the Brotherhood are his family. However, there is always an ulterior motivation behind these actions. Be it money, pedophilia, control, or just plain wanting to mislead people. Not that all religious mentalities are bad, not by a long shot.

Family is different though. A father's advice, a mother's love, brotherly pacts and protective instincts towards a sister don't have an ulterior motive. At least they shouldn't. They should simply be what they are: a father wanting the best for his child, a mother's love of her young, brother's bonded through blood, and the urge to protect those you love.

Religion and family can meet, your religious Order can become your family. But you should not confuse the teachings of faith with the actions of loving family.

At least, to me that is how things look.

So why couldn’t that Paradigm Shift then be about in The Land of The Wandering Scribe, according to the Book of the Wandering Scribe…

Concerning the "Book" analogy: I do agree that this is the right path to take. My Book should consist of those spiritual truths that I hold sacred and divine, and Skeptic Overlord's Book should be written off of the same premise. These Books though, should not be based on what we've been told or taught alone. They should be based on what we've experienced, learned and gained through common life tasks.

And we should not use these books to encourage others' down our path. Only leave them as an open book for anyone willing to look. Proselytizing is one of the worst religious convention that I know of.

Maybe I think we both agree somewhat on the nature of these "Books".

Why the Paradigm Shift shouldn’t be based upon people who truly share real beliefs in common gravitating towards and being grouped with one another in truly respected and respectful place makes no real sense.

I think this unity is completely possible, and plausible. Again though, it should not be pressure or forced. Let those of like minds find each other the old fashioned way: honest searching. Any time a "guru" or "preacher" purposefully tries to gather a flock I believe that the spiritual values therein are diminished in nature because they are not born from the initiate, but are instead pushed upon him.

I don't know if that quite makes sense. It's a hard concept to put into words.

Ultimately these religious beliefs, which are really just doctrines, based on one or a few people’s perspectives, and views on life and the universe, and how we should interact and what we should devote ourselves, manifests themselves into codes and laws.

Not to get all "historical" up in here, but it's been, in my studies and college courses, the opposite direction. Religious mentality tends to hold up the laws currently governing a society. The Law Code of Hammurabi get's written into the Epic of Creation. Or the common Egyptian Laws get chiseled into the Pyramid texts. Jewish laws and morals are transferred into the Tanach.

But I do agree that whichever comes first, the other does partially evolve out of it.

So rather than create societies where people are in essence criminalized by doing and being what comes natural to them, why not create societies and lands where people dwell within respected borders, based on total voluntary belief in that’s the way to live and be that they most enjoy and is right for them.

This is the essence of my dream of the "future". Except not as much sectioning off. Why couldn't a Christian and a Buddhist live on the same street, while a Shaman lives in the woods at the end of the road? That's really the "goal" of my future. Let everyone have their own practices, and let said practices be respected, but don't segregate them.

Of course, one look at the state of man in our current world will tell you that even those who believe in the same God cannot make ends meet. Somehow Evangelical =/= Catholicism =/= Judaism =/= Islam. How will we ever get an Evangelical to sit down with a La Veyian Satanist over afternoon tea?

Couldn’t we all agree to just let each other be

I felt like it was worth quoting this part, to reiterate my view, and how I think we both agree upon it, but just have two different aspirations towards it's accessibility.

~ Scribe

reply to post by Dock9


So if I understand you correctly, you feel that drastic measures might need to be and ought to be taken, up to and including surgery or other forms of physical, mental modification in order to render a human free of defects?

That while that might seem harsh to some, it might be preferable and quicker, than the dysfunctional and defective and deficient, eliminating one another through Darwinian measures in ways that often end up claiming the lives of the peaceful and decent caught in the crossfire?

That’s certainly an interesting approach if ultimately that’s what it would require to make the new system/religion/laws work.

Thanks for sharing that, anything else you feel should be added to that?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You're welcome.
---------------------------------------------------------

All things go in a circel.
From atoms and their neclei to the planets the stars and whatever comes next. Even history keeps repeating it self.

So I'd say there is probably something with these circularities we can not ignore.

It would be petty if it turns out to be true. To realise you're stuck in a loop... I don't know.

Originally posted by polarwarrior
reply to post by GrandKitaro777

 

I agree.

If people come to see the universe as infinent (which doesnt require a tele or micro scope, more correctly those tools cannot prove infinity only hint at the size) Then we will shortly after or simultaneously realize infinity is unity. Manyness is a finite concept, there is no such thing as seperate only the illusion of it. This would mean if people are going to "worship" something they will all worshipping the one infinite creation regardless of race, planet, glaxy or universe they come from. It truely is a universal belief.

"All is one" is almost like an instant cure for the world problems. People will see others as themself. People will see the folly of benefiting the self at the cost to others. Sharing of all things including knowledge will be the only way because after all there is only one of us here, experiencing many different facets of the same being. Our individuality seperation is a temporary illusion to provide the miniscule start of the increadible timeless ride of re-merging with the all that is. Our first step of this mergence is to unite with the other humans on this planet, a difficult one, but the reward will have been worth it. Remember "me" and "we" is the same thing.

I've subtly taught myself the ways of unity and how to see unity within a individual.

Before I call someone a name, I put myself in their shoes and I simply know how they would feel if I've done so. If I see a stranger asking for money, I would usually give them money because I realize their suffering and understand their undeserved fate. It's almost as if I have the "golden rule" implanted in my personality.

I see unity within all individual and see each living individual as a different unique version of self expressing it's nature, which is the personality.

I see myself higher than an individual, but I also see that divinely we're no better than the other.

It's quite difficult to express my perspective in words you can say.



[edit on 11-4-2010 by GrandKitaro777]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by silent thunder
There already is a universal religion that has been practiced since the dawn of man and will always be practiced in countless forms. It is found both inside and outside every form of all major religions, and it is not at all sinister or related to the NWO, etc. It goes under thousands of names but its beating heart is the same in all times and places.

Any chance you might share with us say just a handful or less of the most importing guiding points there related to it, so people could see if there are some simple principles they could agree with?

We might have to merge a few different ideas together to make everyone happy.

What would be the most important things to add?

Thanks for posting.

I doubt everyone could agree on everything or even most things, but I do see in every major world religion a mystical strain. Mystical, briefly, involves less textual literalism and more direct experience. It is the experience of the ineffable, the core experience of primal awe in the face of the divine. It cannot be expressed properly in words. It can be found, as I noted, in every major religious tradition and also secularly. It is an immersion, a direct experience of the holy. I would contend it is essentially the same in every tradition and thus links humanity automatically. It is discovered aknew by each generation, clothed in different words and symbols but it is always the same beating heart.

reply to post by Xtraeme

Meaning as a position I'm advocating omni-gnosticism and -theism. Which, admittedly, is a fairly subtle and nuanced orientation, but one that strikes me as rather open-minded and capable of adapting to a changing reality.

Thank you so much, clearly you have put some significant thought into this.

I have a funny suspicious many of us have, and that in a lot of ways what you are advocating is precisely what I am wondering is possible. Can we as a species create our evolving system, a user friendly one that emanates from the ground up to the top of the Pyramid, instead of emanating from the top and forced down upon us?

Is there a path to accession that we can mutually discover through real cooperation amongst ourselves instead of having something omnipresent hovering above us and forcing it down upon us.

If I understand you correctly, you feel its possible we could, in fact do such a thing, and one of the avenues I would like to explore in this thread, is the possibility that not only would such an bottom to top approach be better, but has it never in fact happened before, because we as people, have never openly and honestly communicated amongst ourselves to the extent where such mutual goal oriented partnership could be possible?

Could it be possible now, in the day of instant and instant global communication to create such a groundswell and forge something that progressive out of it?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Dock9

 

So if I understand you correctly, you feel that drastic measures might need to be and ought to be taken, up to and including surgery or other forms of physical, mental modification in order to render a human free of defects?

That while that might seem harsh to some, it might be preferable and quicker, than the dysfunctional and defective and deficient, eliminating one another through Darwinian measures in ways that often end up claiming the lives of the peaceful and decent caught in the crossfire?

That’s certainly an interesting approach if ultimately that’s what it would require to make the new system/religion/laws work.

Thanks for sharing that, anything else you feel should be added to that?

I'm not sure I believe drastic measures 'should' be taken, so much as suspecting such a decision might be that of the 'authorities', whose overview vastly exceeds our own in proportion to the information and perspective, etc. that's provided them (as opposed to our own, which is interrupted very often by the necessity of coping with the difficulties brought about by our individual little ships, 24/7)

It might be compared somewhat to the programmes conducted by the military, when thousands of recruits arrive

In order to create an efficient fighting force which will obey orders without question, the military-machine strips each individual of his egoistic-shell and turns that individual into a 'number'

Gone are the idosyncratic hair-do's and clothing, etc.

Down on the ground ! Now ! Do the dead-ant ! Gimme 50 ! NOW ! ' and so on

Most grow to enjoy it. It breeds comradship

Just musing ....

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Concerning the "Book" analogy: I do agree that this is the right path to take. My Book should consist of those spiritual truths that I hold sacred and divine, and Skeptic Overlord's Book should be written off of the same premise. These Books though, should not be based on what we've been told or taught alone. They should be based on what we've experienced, learned and gained through common life tasks.

And we should not use these books to encourage others' down our path. Only leave them as an open book for anyone willing to look. Proselytizing is one of the worst religious convention that I know of.

You have captured the essence of what I was trying to convey, and conveyed it back in the way I ultimately see that as a positive possibility myself.

More importantly instead of simply being restricted to a very limited pool of 'Teachers' of a handful of people, long dead and gone, the life experiences and lessons learned of our own contemporaries could serve as a learning tool for others, in a much more adaptive, and intuitive way.

That certainly has the potential to be more productive.

Not to get all "historical" up in here, but it's been, in my studies and college courses, the opposite direction. Religious mentality tends to hold up the laws currently governing a society. The Law Code of Hammurabi get's written into the Epic of Creation. Or the common Egyptian Laws get chiseled into the Pyramid texts. Jewish laws and morals are transferred into the Tanach.

Religion and Government tend to corrupt one another, sometimes even evolving to be one in the same in some societies.

Keeping them seperated is no easy task. The attraction of Religion to Politics and Politics to Religion seems to be almost magnetic.

I wonder if there is a way to resolutely seperate the two, or if it's futile and to accept that the two will eventually merge?

Of course, one look at the state of man in our current world will tell you that even those who believe in the same God cannot make ends meet. Somehow Evangelical =/= Catholicism =/= Judaism =/= Islam. How will we ever get an Evangelical to sit down with a La Veyian Satanist over afternoon tea?

Make the tea free, and throw in some fabulous door prizes, and just maybe?

Somehow there must be a way for people to find common ground based on their true commanalities.

The Key is removing the Fear from the equation that becomes the primer for divide and conquer warfare.

Could Hope be the Key to unite and rejoice celebration?

Could the celebration be based on what is shared in common between the parties, like good tea, and door prizes?

I felt like it was worth quoting this part, to reiterate my view, and how I think we both agree upon it, but just have two different aspirations towards it's accessibility.

We are in fact very close to sharing the same perspectives.

Thanks for the exceptionally thought out and written replies.