Revelation; Silence in heaven

Originally posted by LiquidCrystalz
God does not have a time frame.
We, on the other hand do. We recognize time because our time line is limited. We have a beginning and we have an end.
So since he never had a beginning and will never hava an end, time as we know it isnt measured in minutes, hours days months etc.

Thank you for that valuable contribution.
Of course I agree with your very sensible exposition of the 2 Peter passage.
As I said to that particular poster, I'm quite content to leave the exact length of the "half-hour" period undetermined, to be completed "in God's time".

I am not scholarly in biblical thoughts or understanding what-so-ever, however, after reading these pages of insights on the "silence" I noticed that no one has taken account that our Sun was quite "unnaturally" silent for a very long time over the past few years.

This 11-year solar cycle was unlike any that most have seen due to such silence (sunspots). Now they are resuming and by 2013 the peak or crescendo should occur.

Here is a NASA page to spell this out more thoroughly: Deep Solar Minimum

Although sunspots have resumed I have noted that the Sun has silenced my mind during Sun-gazing.

I also have felt suspended over the past months during the Gulf Crisis, a silence in itself, being as we do not know the true nature of what is taking place with the Gulf, with the waters or the rupture.

I am sorry if my train of thought is contra to this thread since I am the last person on earth who would know anything about our God or the return of our Lord. I only can accept wholeheartedly now by the cumulative information at our disposal that Yes, the Return of Christ is at hand.

If I have been duped by tptb in some ritual or indoctrination than I am but a victim of my own sense of Hope. Heaven Prevail.

YOU rock so hard I love your post S & F on all of them keep preaching dude I like what I see and often email your posts to 109 friends and family and they love it to

Nice post bro, i just want to share my thoughts about God and Time, it isn't directly connected to the topic but i just thought of sharing anyways. So God is always associated with light, right? And He created 'time'/spacetime and light in 1 instance as we know it ('bigbang'), well i think we should always take in mind that He isn't bounded by time, that's why the past, the present, the future is the same for Him right?, he owns time per se, and it perfectly makes sense 'coz God=light, and our 'science' says that when you travel at the speed of light 'time' goes to halt. So yeah i agree! God doesn't have a time frame 'cause he doesn't exist in 'time'-as we know it.
Sorry for my 'scattered' thoughts, i hope i'm still making sense here. Again nice thread bro.

reply to post by Valkyrie02

Thank you for that comment.
My own angle on God being "outside time" is that time is part of the physical universe (see Einstein), so not being part of the physical universe woud put him outside time for that reason alone.
But of course Einstein also talked about light.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Here is my opinion.

Positive and negative
1 x -1 = -1
-1 x -1 = 1
1 x 1 = 1

2/3 positive 1/3 negative

66.6666 infinite positive
33.3333 infinite negative

99.9999 infinite is highest most negative number
88.8888 infinite is highest most positive number

100.0000 infinite is all that is

all odd numbers are negative
all even numbers are positive

you must have both positive and negative

if you divide 2/1 you get 2
if you divide 1/2 you get half, half an hour, 0.5.

you must also remember that 0 is infinite but it is also 1 but we never get to the 1 because the 0 is infinite and any number you times by 0 becomes 0.

See the creator is everywhere and infinite but will not be seen if you look for something of "Size" or some huge long drawn out equation.

see positive is 66.6666 infinite and negative is 33.3333 infinite that leaves 0.0001 infinite but you will never reach the 1 (the 0.0001 infinite is the creator or "God") because it is infinite.

The almost instant creation calls out to be seen but people don't want to think of the creator as 0.0001 infinite or positive energy as 66.6666 infinite because that is what we have been told "nothing" is 0 and that the devil uses the numbers 6666.

reply to post by Trudge

Thank you for that contribution.
I can't help thinking that my own way of interpreting it was simpler and more straightforward.

1 biblical "hour" = 1.7 months
1 biblical "half hour" = 26 calendar days

how you say?

well IF one biblical week = 1 calendar year...... then...

1 biblical "week" = 1 calendar year.
1 biblical "day" = 52 calendar days
1 biblical "hour" = 1.7 calendar months
1 biblical "half hour" = 26 calendar days

so... there j00 go kiddies.

Originally posted by prevenge
1 biblical "week" = 1 calendar year.
1 biblical "day" = 52 calendar days
1 biblical "hour" = 1.7 calendar months
1 biblical "half hour" = 26 calendar days

Your calculation is open to critique in three different ways.

a) There is a massive flaw in the jump from your second line to your third line.

This is partly because you got confused between days and months.
If a biblical "day" is equal to a certain number of DAYS, then a biblical "hour" will be equal to a smaller number of DAYS, not MONTHS.

Also your division is inaccurate.
52 days divided by 24 comes to 2 days and 4 hours- not 1.7 of anything.
Did you use a calculator? That may be where you went wrong.
I did the calculation in my head- good old-fashioned mental arithmatic, you can't beat it.

b) One large school of thought will question the premise in your first line.
They will point out that the biblical "week" is based on the phrase in Daniel- "A week of years", and is tradionally understood as seven years, not one.

c) I question the whole principle of calculation from a different angle.
We are told in Daniel that the final "king" rules for a "week".
We are told in Revelation ch17 that the Beast rules for "one hour".
This means that the "week" and the "hour" are exactly the same time period, and any attempt to calculate one as a proportion of the other is completely blown out of the water.

The scroll with the seven seals that only the Lamb is worthy to open are the ownership deeds to the Earth.. Remember that satan owned the earth until this point and here we have God serving His eviction notice to the devil...

The silence then at the breaking of the seventh seal is ownership returning to God and satan being evicted.. The golden censer full of incense that is hurtled back to earth are the prayers of the saints being answered... Incense wafting up to heaven has always been a representation of prayers making their way up to Heaven, but this time they are thrown back to earth... Thus the silence... It is an astonishing moment, even in heaven, when the completion of Gods program of salvation is launched to Earth, and the eviction of the devil comes to completion on the opening of the seventh seal...

How awesome a moment it is when in heaven it is never silent, but this moment silences even heaven!?

Originally posted by Yissachar1
The scroll with the seven seals that only the Lamb is worthy to open are the ownership deeds to the Earth..

I hope to be getting on to the scroll in one of my later threads- probably near the end of September. For the moment, I'll just confine myself to warning that I will have a different theory about its purpose.

At the moment I'm building up the picture piece by piece; but I think my approach makes sense when the picture can be seen complete.

If you look at my various other Revelation threads, you will see what I mean.

reply to post by DISRAELI


--> i hope the 2nd answer is not too oblique to not be considered

reply to post by St Udio

I still think my version is simpler;
Beast rules for "one week" in one version.
Beast rules for "one hour" in another version.
Simple solution; "one week" and "one hour" alternative names for the same thing.
It seems to me that everybody makes Revelation interpretation much more complicated than it needs to be.

Also there must surely be some reason why "half-an-hour" is named with such peculiar precision, and taking it as half of the "one-hour" seems to me to be a very rational answer.

reply to post by DISRAELI


The scroll is pertinent considering its last seal has been broken which has bought silence to the whole of heaven!
God is the keeper of the sealed copy and the open copy, however He opens the seals to redeem what is His, those purchased by the Lamb, written in the Book that only the REDEEMER can redeem in the deeds.. Satan is therefore cast out as the Redeemer claims His Kingdom and people...

reply to post by Yissachar1

Don't forget that all the way through ch6 the effect of opening the seals is that God' s judgement, in the form of the "horsemen" etc, is sent out over the earth. Surely this, then. is the significance of the scroll; it "contains" the events of ch6. The significance of the seventh seal would then be that it releases the events that follow, namely (after the pause) the seven trumpets.

But you are certainly right to say that only the Redeemer can make these things possible, and the ultimate purpose of all these events is the saving of God's people.
And that is why, as you say, it is important that Satan has been "cast out", as described in ch12.







[edit on 18-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by Yissachar1


very thought provoking!

thanks.

reply to post by DISRAELI


That serpent of old is angry because he knows his time is short.. As the seals to the deeds are opened the satan responds by setting out to destroy, each seal opens creates more desparation from the evictee who is being served notice, thus by war, famine death and disease are acts of a desparate tyrant who would take Gods people out on mass rather than them comming back to God before the purchased are redeemed... Note as each seal is opened that on the earth things worsen.. And until the final seal is open, the devil still has authority... Judgement therefore is comming his way so the devils response to the opening of each seal also serves God to cleanse the earth of corruption, using the devils wrath against him to sift the wheat from the chaff, and to refine the Bride, to make them fall, to refine them (daniel 12 v 9)...

Those judgements therefore are satans response to the opening of each seal

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Yissachar1]

reply to post by Yissachar1


There's one thing I'd like to point out however,

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

Now it would seem that before Christ, Satan had control of heaven and not earth since he was cast out into the earth.

Originally posted by iamnot
Now it would seem that before Christ, Satan had control of heaven and not earth since he was cast out into the earth.

I think the New Testament usage of the word "heaven" is ambiguous.
I take it that the "heaven" where Satan rules/ruled is the "heavenly places" of Ephesians ch6 v12.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Those judgements therefore are satans response to the opening of each seal

My query about this is that each "horseman", according to the symbolism of the narrative, is sent by God.
Each horseman comes in response to a summons from one of the four beasts who are servants of God-
John then says things like "they were given power" and "ther were permitted", which are oblique, respectful, ways of saying that God permitted them and gave them power.
That is why I originally took the horsemen to be God's wrath against the persecutors of his people- see
4 Horsemen-Why?

[edit on 18-8-2010 by DISRAELI]