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WIKI DECEPTION: Iraq video last week edited. Uncut video released.

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posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by SPYvsSPY
I would not drive with my children into an area where shots are being fired. Also seems the rest of the population weren't out and about looking for the picknic!

[edit on 2-9-2010 by SPYvsSPY]

[edit on 2-9-2010 by SPYvsSPY]


He was already in the area. He was in his neighborhood and could not see the chopper. How many brave Americans would watch their neighbors get gunned down in the street and do nothing to help, especially if you thought the coast was clear.

Maybe he did not make the best decision in the world but I am failing to see how that justifies lighting the van up to begin with. People keep calling this a war zone and a battle zone. These are just words you have made up for "home" and "neighborhood." This is where these people live. Calling it a battlefield is just a way to pretend it is ok to invade and slaughter people in their own country.




posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by 3vilscript
 


I have never mentioned anything about quality. I do think the pilot/gunner have a much clearer picture then we have.

But can i ask you this:
The first time the Helli's ID weapons. There was no way they could see clearly if any of them actually were carrying weapons or a camera. The only thing they could see is that they have something hanging from their shoulders as they walk down the street. Its not until they focus on the three people behind the first group, that you can get a good ID of weapons.
And if any of these people were in a engagement with the US ground troops, they sure were very relaxed about it. They didn't even care to keep a focus on were the US ground troops were. It seamed more like they were just minding their own business. One of the camera men on the other hand were interested in something.

I bet the camera guy got a good picture of the heli before he got killed.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by SPYvsSPY
I would not drive with my children into an area where shots are being fired. Also seems the rest of the population weren't out and about looking for the picknic!

[edit on 2-9-2010 by SPYvsSPY]

[edit on 2-9-2010 by SPYvsSPY]


He was already in the area. He was in his neighborhood and could not see the chopper. How many brave Americans would watch their neighbors get gunned down in the street and do nothing to help, especially if you thought the coast was clear.

Maybe he did not make the best decision in the world but I am failing to see how that justifies lighting the van up to begin with. People keep calling this a war zone and a battle zone. These are just words you have made up for "home" and "neighborhood." This is where these people live. Calling it a battlefield is just a way to pretend it is ok to invade and slaughter people in their own country.


You know I was gonna mention that earlier. People saying things like "warzone" and pilots saying "should not have brought their kids into battle." These peoples homes and neighborhoods ARE the warzone, and no battle happened. Something I don't get is why when the heli comes around the building none of the suspects notice it. I mean, there was a guy pointing and RPG 5 seconds before and suddenly they're all just talking amongst themselves. The heli is so far away they don't even know they are getting shot at until they are actually hit. You can tell they realize they are being shot when the bullets hit the ground.

Less and less makes sense about this video. Before it was the Pentagon saying they lost the tape, now they've found it, and now the extra footage. Something's up.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


He was already in the area of fighting, why? And he thought the coast was clear to help men with weapons. I doubt if this was his neighborhood you know, where he lived. If it was I would have moved to a better one long ago and take my family.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 12:41 PM
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hell if you go to www.apacheclips.com... there are hundreds of videos of firing on vehicles even those trying to pick up wounded.

thing is if it's an aid vehicle the rules are it must have that red cross or be painted/visually labeled as such.

some unmarked vehicle flys in and starts grabbing = fair game. Even by the rules of engagement.

and yes you can download the military rules of engagement also at wikileaks.

Never drive some unmarked vehicle in middle of a warzone and grabbing wounded (who were at the time thought to be insurgents of course). They should have at least spray painted the van with red cross or anything that is under the ROE to identify aid vehicle.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Cito
 


I dont know about you. But should every citizen in Iraq paint a red cross on their cars? Just in case they want to help some one.

And how many Iraqi citizens do you think know the US rules of engagement. Or the ROE for that matter.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by 3vilscript
 


I have never mentioned anything about quality. I do think the pilot/gunner have a much clearer picture then we have.

But can i ask you this:
The first time the Helli's ID weapons. There was no way they could see clearly if any of them actually were carrying weapons or a camera. The only thing they could see is that they have something hanging from their shoulders as they walk down the street. Its not until they focus on the three people behind the first group, that you can get a good ID of weapons.
And if any of these people were in a engagement with the US ground troops, they sure were very relaxed about it. They didn't even care to keep a focus on were the US ground troops were. It seamed more like they were just minding their own business. One of the camera men on the other hand were interested in something.

I bet the camera guy got a good picture of the heli before he got killed.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]


I have always been able to make out AK's in the videos. Yes. What I don't get is why these guys were so relaxed as you mentioned. Also could the guys with the weapons be the reporters security detail? Like I mentioned before I don't think the guy peaking around the corner was actually pointing at the Heli. It seems they weren't bothered by it or hadn't even noticed it till they got shot.

In any case I could understand the pilot thinking he was pointing at them, but then again I'm a civilian. I wish someone here would look into how far and high the heli was from these guys and if an RPG can hit the heli from that distance. Somehow I think it would be very difficult but like I said I don't know about these things.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Cito
hell if you go to www.apacheclips.com... there are hundreds of videos of firing on vehicles even those trying to pick up wounded.

thing is if it's an aid vehicle the rules are it must have that red cross or be painted/visually labeled as such.

some unmarked vehicle flys in and starts grabbing = fair game. Even by the rules of engagement.

and yes you can download the military rules of engagement also at wikileaks.

Never drive some unmarked vehicle in middle of a warzone and grabbing wounded (who were at the time thought to be insurgents of course). They should have at least spray painted the van with red cross or anything that is under the ROE to identify aid vehicle.


You think maybe only the military knows this? I mean, is there proof that they've told the Iraqi people this? Because if they had, don't you think insurgents would just start painting a cross on the sides of there cars and they would just drive in there and not get shot at. I mean I know there are many people over there with no education but, to not figure that out would be, well, stupid.




spy66


Hahaha, you beat me to it.


[edit on 4/10/2010 by 3vilscript]



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by 3vilscript
 


The hellis are about 885m ++ from the crowd on the ground. And at approximately 40-45 degree angel. That would put them approximately 350 to 400m up.

The velocity of the round fired is 805m/s and i timed the impact at about 1.1 sec.

That would be 805m/s X 1.1 sec. = 885.5m



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by SPYvsSPY
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


He was already in the area of fighting, why?


It was a neighborhood. Think he might have lived or worked there?


And he thought the coast was clear to help men with weapons.


What is that now? He was helping what men with what weapons? I guess I missed that revelation. Please share.


I doubt if this was his neighborhood you know, where he lived. If it was I would have moved to a better one long ago and take my family.


Such an ignorant statement simply leaves me at a loss for words.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Cito
 


I dont know about you. But should every citizen in Iraq paint a red cross on their cars? Just in case they want to help some one.

And how many Iraqi citizens do you think know the US rules of engagement. Or the ROE for that matter.


Everyone knows this, it's international and part of the geneva convention.

Even countries that do not follow the geneva convention know that white flag or white with red cross = aid.

Even the nazi's used it so that allied troops bombing trains wouldnt bomb trains carrying jews.

so yes iraq does know, everyone knows



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Cito

Everyone knows this, it's international and part of the geneva convention.


If everyone knows this, why are so many people in this very thread just learning about it now?


Even countries that do not follow the geneva convention know that white flag or white with red cross = aid.


Any time you want to prove the every villager and farmer in Afghanistan has been given this knowledge, go for it. Otherwise it is just empty bluster.


Even the nazi's used it so that allied troops bombing trains wouldnt bomb trains carrying jews.


Do you not know the difference between a standing military and um...well just people trying not to get killed every day?


so yes iraq does know, everyone knows



Show me that every person in Iraq knows this. Show me how they were told. I guess every dirt farmer got a text on their blackberry?



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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go to www.apacheclips.com...

search thru some of the ambush or aid videos shows iraqi and afghan vids with old beat up trucks with white blankets or whatnot draped across them

some have a red cross indicating a makeshift ambulance.

hell I learned this in highschool social studies when we went over the different wars. It's even been used in movies, its been used in all the wars,

and even the old common white flag has been used as far back as civil war and prior.

during ww2, in tokyo ambulance/aid vehicles painted white and red cross on top of their vehicles just in case.

it's common knowledge, just cause a few don't know doesnt make it true, go read your history, go read the geneva convention, go read about foreign aid vehicles or how in many wars countries suspected of not knowing mass leaflets were dropped on them with instructions and the leaflets dropped in first iraq war show the white/red cross for aid and how to surrender without getting your head shot off

hehe



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by Cito
 


Its ignorance to actually claim that this is common practice and common knowledge among common civilians.

It doesn't really matter what you claim. It should rather be common knowledge that what you see is people actually trying to help someone who is hurt. You dont need a damn cross to see that.

Claiming that you need a painted red cross is a poor excuse. We should be able to tell the difference between who is helping and who is fighting.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


You a loss for words, I doubt that. Watch the video again and get yourself educated to the fact that the van was droping off armed men. Do you think the chopper just showed up to pick on these men. It was called in for support, a fire fight had just happend. The coast certainly looked clear but wasn't. The Iraqi fighters are not stupid dirt farmers they use cell phones and short range walki to keep track of troop movements and shuffle their fighters around in civilian vehicles. Also they use the mosque for protection when the heat is on. If the men worked for Reuters I am sure they are educated to the point as not to bring children unless they were just ignorant and expected to meet just ground forces and the kids make a perfect cover from attack on both sides. You wouldn't last a day on either side.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by SPYvsSPY
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


You a loss for words, I doubt that. Watch the video again and get yourself educated to the fact that the van was droping off armed men. Do you think the chopper just showed up to pick on these men. It was called in for support, a fire fight had just happend. The coast certainly looked clear but wasn't. The Iraqi fighters are not stupid dirt farmers they use cell phones and short range walki to keep track of troop movements and shuffle their fighters around in civilian vehicles. Also they use the mosque for protection when the heat is on. If the men worked for Reuters I am sure they are educated to the point as not to bring children unless they were just ignorant and expected to meet just ground forces and the kids make a perfect cover from attack on both sides. You wouldn't last a day on either side.


All I see are BS talking points. Not one fact or anything even relating to the actual evidence in the video. Save your ranting for the drunks down at the VA hall.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Seems your on a rant and the VFA hall is not my style. Walk in one and speak like that young man and an old soldier might hand your ass to you and send you on your way. Maybe not...just make you pee your pants and laugh. Watch the vid again.



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by SPYvsSPY
 


The Van that is shown by the second Apache in the beginning only looks like the one at the location. The Van that arrives by the wounded has a distinct white roof. The Van that is shown in the beginning is all dark.

Since Liveleak has edited their version i dont trust it at all.

If i am not mistaken. Wikileaks version is already approved by military authority.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by Raud
 


I would consider myself EXTREMELY critical of our military's BUT if you are in the vicinity of a group of individuals as in talking and walking with them you deserve every stray bullet.

Just like hanging with a bad crowd, you are guilty by association, now if you happen to be passing by and were obviously on your way the HECK out of trouble I would completely agree they need to know what they were shooting at, but come on press or not they were IN a crowd and obviously indistinguishable from the others. they don't say "all fair in love and war" for nothing.

Flame out



posted on Apr, 10 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by highlyoriginal
Just to clarify things, the two children were not killed - they were injured - however they were supposed to be sent to get care at a nearby US military base, but instead were not allowed to be and they were sent to a nearby Iraqi [hospital] facility where more than likely they were given not as good of care as they could have been given by the US, and the US are the ones who injured them in the first place.


That's not true. FWIW, the results of the 15-6 state that the children were sent to FOB Loyalty to the 28th CSH. A day later they were then sent to "Medical City", an Iraqi hospital or something. So they weren't just punted into some s**thole Iraqi clinic down the road.



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