Plane carrying Polish president Lech Kaczynski crashes near Russian airport, CONFIRMED DEAD

rt.com...

In this video, towards the middle, it states that numerous eye witnesses to the crash say they think they saw the plane leaking fuel. I don't know how anyone could have seen anything in that fog, or what anyone was doing in that area. However it would explain why the Polish pilot made FOUR attempts to land at the airfield despite being redirected to Moscow or Minsk airports.

If I was you guys, I wouldn't jump to conclusions until we get at least some info from the one of the two black boxes that was recovered. The Tu-154 in question did just undergo maintenance, but its not the first time we've heard of malfunction in a plane fresh from a checkup. Plus the Tu-154s do have a sketchy record.

Regards,
Maestro

a lot of things came to mind when I read this earlier this morning. what's interesting is hey, the black boxes were found.....OBVIOUSLY, and lotta people have been commenting on how those planes suck. there have been a bunch of crashes with the type of plane they were in, including like 6 crashes in the last 5 years. so it could be all this stuff we're talking about, or it could have just been a $h1tty plane

I do believe this tragedy will prove it's self to be a significant turning point in the history of the world, and not for the good!


My thoughts and prayers go out to the good People of Poland.

Originally posted by felonius

Originally posted by Vitchilo
CONFIRMED.

THE PRESIDENT AND HIS WIFE KILLED.

(on Sky News TV)

Indeed this is really strange... let's hope Poland ain't taking this as an assassination...

Because Poland is in NATO... and an attack on NATO is an attack on everyone, and that means WW3.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Vitchilo]

Our president is a great big Puss! The worst he would do is (after he bent to kiss the ring on Putins hand) polish it wrong with his tongue!

If Reagan or someone were in there? Then you would have an issue.

Vladimir Stalin Putin, he is the one to prove my point of the USSR just sleeping. I like most of the folks from there (and the Nordic Russian women are amazing!) but I dont like their military. Barbarians.

"Whoever does not miss the soviet union does not have a heart, whoever want's it back does not have a brain" Vladimir Putin

Yes putin was in the KGB but he either can tell that the soviet union would be too much work to get back and would be counter productive, or it would be deeply unpopular with russia's people. Heck with the repression of the USSR still burned into many peoples minds who can blame them?

And yes i hate stalin with a passion even more then hitler, killing millions of people your OWN people isn't a good way to inspire confidence neither is stifling freedom of movement of the right to protest ALL of wich stalin and the USSR did.

Anyway back on topic someone mentioned altimeter fiddling by remote control i don't think this is possible as the altimeter is done even now in 2010 by pressure crushing the detector in the instrument the more pressure the higher you are (or vice versa i'm not an FAA pilot )

My condolences to the families of those affected and to the polish people.

Originally posted by highlyoriginal
I'm hearing on the news now that the pilot was told to land at another airport, but he insisted on trying to land at Smolensk... why, after being warned to land somewhere else because of bad weather would you continue to your original destination (in this case the Smolensk airport)? Seems a bit odd.

You would think the person flying this plane full of important people would know what he/she is doing - apparently not?

It seems a bit odd because it's a lie.

The truth is that the fog wasn't that thick. There is a witness who saw the whole thing:
BBC - thin fog witness

Polish TV worker Slawomir Wisniewski said he had seen the crash from his hotel near the airport.

"I saw through the fog, the aeroplane flying very low with the left wing pointing to the ground," he said.

"I heard something being broken and then that thudding sound. Two flashes of fire next to each other."

Plus, maestro46 noted in in this post that numerous witness could see fuel leaking from the plane. Again, this points to the fog not being nearly as "thick" as the official cover story requires it to be.

The pilot of that plane, no doubt, was probably the best pilot in the nation of Poland. These guys don't crash, ever, unless someone tampers with the flight control systems of the airplane.

But they sell the idea that it was foggy, and that the pilot was a risk taker. 100% Bull Pucky.

Then put it into context, by reading all the other points of this thread, and it becomes crystal clear that this was a black op, and that the "thick fog" was an exaggeration designed to sell the cover story of it being an accident.

Black Ops 101

Also, check this new anomaly out, from the same BBC article linked above:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cad54aae9495.gif[/atsimg]

Check it out! The map states that at 640 GMT, communications with the plane were lost. Then 16 minutes later, at 656 GMT, the plane crashes.

WTF?

Notice how this slipped through, this completely contradicts the official cover story. They claim that the pilot was being told to land somewhere else, but that the pilot didn't heed their warnings.

Kind of hard to hear warnings when your communications systems are down!!

Anyone else seeing this?

[edit on 10-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

It's interesting that the Head of the Bank of Poland was on board. By all accounts (looking at various websites) he was a very controversial choice when he was appointed.

1) He had recently reversed himself on letting the Zloty float in a free market, and had held interest rates low keeping the currency artificially high, against previous policy.

2) I wasn't able to find out what his position was on joining the Euro. However, if he was against it (which I suspect), I'll bet my last dollar that his replacement will be all for joining the Euro.

3) He was also in a battle with the Government over how much profit was declared by the bank.

If there are any conspiracy theories out there, I would think that this man would top the list for possible passengers that needed to be taken out.

I don't really understand how the Polish government works, does anybody have an idea of who is going to be taking control of the Polish government now? And what that person's ideologies are? I don't want to instantly blame the Russians for this, because sometimes planes just crash. Maybe it was an opposition leader in Poland or a Mossad agent or even the C.I.A joint-tasking a mission with M15? We will never know.

This is such a weird event and so tragic. I had a dream about a plane crash just two nights ago, but don't think it had anything to do with this. In my dream a part of a cliff or mountain or rock fell onto the run way and the plane hit it. Also all the victims in my dream were of Asian decent.

I pray for the people of Poland and the families who lost their loved ones in this tragedy.

This recent news should bode well for Russia, and not for the United States.

Considering the revolution in Kyrgyzstan, and now pro-US Polish leadership all but gone, I am sure the big bear is having a field day behind the scenes.

My heart goes out to the entire Polish nation. It makes me cry to think about such tragedy.

You know Lech Kaczynski's death will be grossly exploited. So another piece is moved on the grand table.

reply to post by harrytuttle


I was wondering this too. In Britain, the whole Royal family isn't allowed to travel together (even William cannot travel with The Queen - ever) in case something like this happens.

I also wonder about the State of the Union speech in the USA, when the entire political, civilian, and military leadership is bought together in one place at the same time. Huge security risk I'd say. Take out the Capitol during the SOTU address and you'd wipe out the entire US leadership.

What still makes me think most is this strange coincidence, that Polish political and military elite were there to commemorate 70th anniversary of massacre of Polish politcal and military elite by Stalin. And plane crashed almost in the same place where massacre took place 70 years ago. I don´t want to sound paranoid, but it´s just too weird coincidence.

Originally posted by harrytuttle

Polish TV worker Slawomir Wisniewski said he had seen the crash from his hotel near the airport.

"I saw through the fog, the aeroplane flying very low with the left wing pointing to the ground," he said.

"I heard something being broken and then that thudding sound. Two flashes of fire next to each other."

The pilot of that plane, no doubt, was probably the best pilot in the nation of Poland. These guys don't crash, ever, unless someone tampers with the flight control systems of the airplane.

But they sell the idea that it was foggy, and that the pilot was a risk taker. 100% Bull Pucky.

Then put it into context, by reading all the other points of this thread, and it becomes crystal clear that this was a black op, and that the "thick fog" was an exaggeration designed to sell the cover story of it being an accident.

Black Ops 101

Fair point, but why then didn't the pilot report that there was something wrong with the aircraft.

He is warned that the weather conditions are poor. Yet he continues to his destination. No doubt this professional believes he can handle it. Also no doubt he is pressed by the officials on board not to take detours since they do not want to be late to such an important event. He then tries to land the plane the first time. For whatever reason, he is unsuccessful. He tries again - no doubt he notices that something is wrong. Some eyewitness said they saw a fuel leak. Surely the pilot would have relayed something to the control tower right? Third attempt, and then the tragic fourth.

If there was a jamming device functioning in the area it would have knocked out other electronics in the area, or cause them to malfunction. I'm not a pro in this area, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, could we assume that if the eyewitnesses were all from that hotel perhaps they were elevated high enough to see over the fog - where as the pilot could not see the ground?

Mere speculation. Eager to hear your reply.

Regards,
Maestro

PS: sorry bout all the edits. I'm terrible with the quote thing.
[edit on 10-4-2010 by maestro46]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by maestro46]

-The pilot stayed ignorant of repeated calls for flight diversion.

-All the Polish elites were packed in one plane.

-Russia and Poles don't get along very well with each other.

-Poland and its NATO alliance and US missile defence system.

-Russians sending an investigation team to clean up all the mess.

And we are all expected to believe that a millitary aircraft crashed because of 'foggy' conditions.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by merkava]

reply to post by Vitchilo


Thinking about what you just said, Vitchilo. Brezinski's book about the chess game. I actually trust Putin a lot more than I trust the admin here. (he is, at least, consistent and seemingly more straightforward) Considering "our" appetite for military adventures and wondering if the Poles might have been thinking of backing out on the missile shield (we would not know if they were- would this "help convince them"?), AND that Russia is sitting on all those natural resources-right of ways to which Russia has sewn up, and Afghanistan is not going as planned, the US and NATO/ the bankers have far more interest in stirring up some (stuff) than Russia would. You'd think the US would have at least as much (or more) of a presence inside Poland. The US has quite a record for plane crashes itself and meddling in foreign countries.
Just sayin...

Sending prayers for the families there. This is a horrible tragedy.

reply to post by maestro46

maestro46, check out the bottom half of my updated post!!!

You ask why would the pilot not pay attention to the warnings? Well the BBC map I copied from their article claims that 16 minutes before the crash, the aircraft lost communications!!

So there we have it ladies and gentlemen. 16 minutes before the crash, the plane lost communications, so it's impossible for "warnings" to have been provided to the pilot.

You heard it here first, on ATS!

This piece of information has not been repeated anywhere else but on this BBC map. Why? It's so important!


[edit on 10-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

My condolences to the Polish Nation and the families of those who died.


This is a terrible event, and it should not be politicized or made into a nutjob conspiracy theory, and it should not jeopardize Russia-Poland relations. It is disgusting how people jump on the conspiracy band wagon before any facts are known, and use a tragic event to publically entertain their fantasies.

Russia has not ill will toward Poland and its people, and the tragedy is compounded by the fact that it happened during anniversary of the Katyn, which was to be jointly attended by Polish and Russian leadership, to highlight solidarity between the two nations and improve relations.



As was stated many times, by both Russia and Polish officials, that the accident appears to be due to weather conditions and pilot error. The airport in Smolensk indeed had extremely heavy fog. A Russian Il-76 carrying security pesonnel tried landing in the same airport just before the Polish plane, and had to be diverted to another city. The Il-76 was piloted by an expert local pilot, and according to Russian news he stated that even for him landing there was not possible. In fact it appears that after that the airport tried to cancel all landings.

As for the plane with the Polish delegation - it had tried landing 4 times in Smolensk prior to the crash, and had to abort. The control tower strongly advised them to divert to city of Minsk right away, but they tried landing again.

So far there is absolutely no evidence that the crash was caused by anything other than combination of weather and pilot error.

It doesn't matter which way you look at it, this is bad. The least this will do is cause already high tensions to rise higher. I really do hope there was some thick fog and somehow it was pilot error. That being said, I would not put it past the Russians to take out a plane of state officials without blinking an eye. You don't get crappy pilots and rundown planes when you are the president of the country. So IMHO this pilot had to have made some SERIOUS errors. If this isn't the case then we are left with the alternative scenario.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
You ask why would the pilot not pay attention to the warnings? Well the BBC map I copied from their article claims that 16 minutes before the crash, the aircraft lost communications!!

So there we have it ladies and gentlemen. 16 minutes before the crash, the plane lost communications, so it's impossible for "warnings" to have been provided to the pilot.

According to Russian news the control tower had communication with the airplane. They tried to divert it to Minsk just minutes before the crash, but the pilot attempted another landing.

Either way, the black boxes have been located, and any inconsistencies will come out in the joint Russian-Polish investigation.


As for why the pilot might have tried to land in dangerous conditions instead of diverting:

In 2008 during the South Ossetian War, the Polish President was on the way to Tbilisi, Georgia to meet with Saakashvili. The pilot considered landing in Tbilisi to be too dangerous and diverted to Azerbaijan, delaying the visit by many hours. That even caused much stir and was harshly criticized by the Polish President. What might have happened is that the pilot did not want to upset the President in the same way this time around, or was told by the President to land the plane regardless.

Originally posted by maloy
So far there is absolutely no evidence that the crash was caused by anything other than combination of weather and pilot error.

How can you say that if the aircraft's communications were cut off 16 minutes before the plane crash?

How can you say that when there were witnesses who saw the aircraft leaking fuel and from as far away as local hotels just before it crashed?

Seriously, how can you make statements like that when there is so much evidence suggesting it wasn't simply "pilot error" and "weather"?

DENY IGNORANCE

[edit on 10-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

Originally posted by nuffsaid747

Originally posted by ghostsoldier

www.youtube.com.../watch%3Fv%3Dnucwf6DvpG4

One of the comments that accompanies this video on YouTube is more than a little intriguing:

"This is clearly a cover-up for the Polish governments involvement in the "Ukraine Swine Flu" outbreak that turned out to be a bioweapon made by Baxter . Polish officials were involved in making sure deaths were incorrectly reported as H1N1 . A few weeks after the E U demands an investigation into the fake outbreak , the whole Polish cabinent is destroyed."

Hmmm..............



[edit on 10-4-2010 by nuffsaid747]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by nuffsaid747]

In light of the content in my previous comment, to TRULY EXPAND your worldview on the possible reason to need to COMPLETELY change the uppermost echelons of the Polish Government you MUST READ this article:

"PharmaMedia to Squelch EU Council’s Secret Investigation into H1N1 Vaccine Fraud and Global Genocide"

By Sherri Kane

theflucase.com... enocide&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en

Selected Excerpts:

Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) will hold a secret hearing next week into the apparent manipulation by BigPharma of the World Health Organization’s (WHO) global H1N1 flu campaign. Experts predict the secrecy will be maintained by the PharmaMedia that controls mainstream news.


The PACE hearing currently advancing was prompted by Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg, chief of health in the Council of Europe representing 47 countries. This inquiry will address the drug cartel’s “false flag” pandemic, and the WHO’s scandalous promotions of swine flu vaccinations that were “fast tracked,” inadequately tested, and now causing more harm than good.

“Many countries in Europe are very angry about what the WHO did and how they decided to have a pandemic when there was just a mild flu; and this whole thing was in favor of those companies who had prepared the pandemic plans, and who only needed the judgment of the WHO to have them set in power, and to earn them money,” Dr. Wodarg explained.


The Council is expected to consider the sudden inexplicable proclamations of H1N1 vaccine shortages instigated by BigPharma’s advertising gurus paid to respond to widespread distrust of the manufactured flu fright and vaccine sales hype.


Global pandemic promoters used frightful messages to convince scientists, doctors, and global populations that pandemic H1N1 threatened to kill millions. Instead, the virus caused only a tiny fraction of deaths reported during a normal flu season.


Many observers believe the urgently needed investigation is unlikely to make any significant difference in public perceptions since drug industrialists have a knack for steering their allies in the media clear of controversy; especially this kind of explosive scandal.

Who Ordered the Shortage Marketing?


To diagnose this surreal tragedy accurately, one need only consider the source of the shortage marketing directive. There was a dramatic orchestrated change in global media promotions the third week of October. Investigators must ponder why adequate supplies of vaccines widely acknowledged before October 16, 2009, suddenly disappeared following a Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) meeting on this subject held in New York on this date.


The “H1N1 Pandemic Study Group” meeting was led by Laurie Garrett–a noted journalist whose works exemplify PharmaMedia’s methods of conducting white collar bio-terrorism and psychological warfare. Her messages, like other authors “selected” for media stardom, create markets and stimulate sales for the petrochemical-pharmaceutical cartel, especially through lucrative sales of vaccines and drugs following frights.


Garrett’s study group decided that the most effective response to the public’s overwhelming aversion to getting vaccinated was to feign a vaccine shortage. One week later, the media, led by Thomas Glocer’s Reuters News Service and Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation, suddenly declared the alleged shortages.


It turns out that Murdoch, directing most powerfully the influential media, including Fox News, the Associated Press (AP), Twentieth Century Fox, Time Warner, and much more, controls the Murdoch Childrens’ Research Institute (MCRI) in Australia, responsible for the first H1N1 Swine flu tests on children 6 months to 8 years of age.


Murdoch’s son, and heir apparent, James, the Chairman and Chief Executive of News Corporation for Europe and Asia, is an overseer of GlaxoSmithKline’s Board of Directors. They are one of six companies that make H1N1 vaccines.


Rupert’s mother, Elisabeth Murdoch, is the grand matriarch of the Royal Victoria Women’s Hospital in Melbourne. Its staff collaborated with CSL Pharmaceuticals, another H1N1 vaccine maker. CSL is owned by Merck & Co. They used flawed testing methods on pregnant women, doctors say. Their safety tests lacked legitimate placebo controls and evaded long-term surveillance and data collection. The missing data prevented credible scientific analysis. Thus, BigPharma had nothing to substantiate their liberally-issued safety assurances. In other words, PharmaMedia conducted an obvious case of scientific fraud and public deception for vaccine market proliferation.


Thomas Glocer, the CEO of Reuters, is also on the Board of Directors of Merck & Co., and a partner with Rupert Murdoch in the Partnership for New York City that personifies the heart of this drug ring. The partners profitably advance biotechnology and “genetopharmaceuticals” globally, more than any other consortium.


This PFNYC was founded by David Rockefeller who controls the CFR and World Health Organization (WHO). Rockefeller-approved Co-Chairs of the PFNYC include Rupert Murdoch and Lloyd Blankfein, the chief of Goldman Sachs who financed the merger of MedImmune and Astrozeneca, producers of FLUMIST–the nasal spray H1N1 vaccine. Blankfein holds millions, perhaps billions, of dollars of the company’s stock.


“Now these unholy alliances have yet to be acknowledged adequately because these H1N1 vaccine investors have zero reason to expose themselves,” Dr. Horowitz said. “So regardless of what PACE investigators find, these PFNYC partners will either spin their stories suitably, or neglect them entirely, leaving populations clueless about what is really happening behind BigPharma’s deceptive media.”


“The goal of our work,” Dr. Wordarg revealed, “is to reinstill trust into very important health organizations we need–such organizations who will cooperate internationally, and who are important in the network of international knowledge about possible health dangers.”


“But this influenza was twice blown up,” the German medical chief continued, “once as a bird flu, and the second time as the swine flu. There was no scientific evidence for either.”