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CONFIRMED, Greece is cooked!

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posted on Apr, 12 2010 @ 02:28 AM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Do you really feel the establishment can afford to let a single Western market fall? Once one falls the question on the minds of everyone will be who is next! that fear would be like a contagion..

Not to mention the anger that is simmering below the surface in the Western world would be be brought to the fore and if the situation (or fear mongering) gets worse, would be unleashed at the Establishment.

Allowing a single market to fail literally puts the establishments head in the noose, and I really do not feel they would take that risk, not with the own lives, somehow they will find a way of propping up/bailing out Greece.

posted on Apr, 12 2010 @ 02:49 AM
reply to post by thoughtsfull

Well the information coming out of Bilderberg is that they will let the economy get worse so they can have their UN treasury.

So my guess is that they think the people will do nothing since they did nothing since 2008.

posted on Apr, 12 2010 @ 03:06 AM
reply to post by Vitchilo

If they are that silly to make such an assumption, then I think they'll find themselves in hot water.

The only way I think they could get way with taking that path is either creating a new but major conflict to redirect the current anger outwards.. or release some new form of tech that will create new industries/jobs..

Otherwise, in my opinion they are cooking their own goose.

but I have been wondering what the impact would be on the UK elections should Greece fail before we vote..

posted on Apr, 12 2010 @ 05:09 AM
I felt the need to write also to this thread, because i can tell you some things about how we (the Greeks) (a few at least) feel about the economy in our country.

First i would have to answer to my friend NON-CONFORMIST that he shouldn't let his feelings overcome his logic. Surely, you (German) don't have to bail us out of this mess that we created after all. All you have to do is say "NO" to miss Merkel and have a vote for this. Then your problem will end there. See how easy it is? But then you should also say to miss Merkel not to sell us any more guns for our militia, since one of the last loans had this term (we'll give you a loan if you get guns from us). The story "mine is bigger than yours" should already end. We are grown ups after all.

Second, all of us have to think that the public has a part of the situation, but... Let's predent that i'm the prime minister of your country (German, France, USA etc.) knock your door and say "Hello my friend, i'll give you money to vote for me in the elections next week", you wouldn't take it? Come on now. In every problem, there are always two that have the fault. We took the money that "they" gave us. And by "they", i mean the politicians that unfortunatelly, we vote, because they gave us money (by the term money i'm not complitely literal, "money" also stands for a "favor" like having our kids in a position in a public service etc. Politicians don't give money to anyone other than them selfs).

When Greece entered the euro zone most of the Greeks (including myself) said that now we're going to be saved, but i should better say back then that, now we are going to be shaved. And i don't mean that the eurozone would pay anything for us. It was more the feeling of salvation of the problems that a country has, than the salvation itself.
But now, after all the crap that happened to us (and once the shtf since last year) (and i'm sure, the same happened to all the countries that have the euro right now), i'm ready to be "kicked" out of the euro and re-enter the drachma era (by the way, the coin is named "drachme" and at the end is pronounced "me" like "me, myself"). I don't think that the Brits are stupid and never had the euro. All the countries, including Germany and France, had problem including the round-ups but the bigger was that everyone had less money in their pockets (by "less" i don't mean the amount but the worth).

As goes for the bail-out, well, our media (the biggest destruction of human race after the A-bomb) tell us that "we have money to pay the pension until June". Then we could dig a hole and just wait.

Now it's time for a little "conspiracy theory" that goes in my mind.
All of this, the euro zone, the Europe zone, the ONE country thing as it is today, is base on debt, every country owes to the banksters. Some more (like us) some less (like you
). The banksters rule the countries, not the people or the goverments. For me, The Europe is just another experiment to see if something like this is possible. Is an experiment to watch people react in a bigger idea, it is the real "truman show the country edition". And i think that this story is under destruction. Some will say that the Greeks have taken us down the hill. PIGS are responsible of our poverty. But i don't think so. If Greece had alot of money, then it would be someone else. The one globe scenario cannot work. It might work if "they" give away the monetary system as it is today. I don't know, maybe "credits" will do the job. We'll see.

Unfortunately for them, the ONE country theory remained only theory, since the monetary system is based on money and not gold (i really don't think that there is enough gold or silver on this planet to cover the amount of money is printed on the countries of the earth. And since money grants the price of the gold and not vice versa.......)

So for me "MONEY IS DEBT".

Sorry for my bad English. It's not my native language.

posted on Apr, 12 2010 @ 10:07 PM
I think it's just after 6am in Athens. In a few hours , results should be in on the $1.6 billion T-Bill auction. Positive..or..negative...could budge a few currencies around.


posted on Apr, 12 2010 @ 11:08 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

From my understanding of EU law, it is technically illegal for the EU to "bail out" anyone. So the $40billion bailout will be a combined loan from various separate parties .. so yes I believe you are right, each nation will require their governments to pass legislation approving such a law.

However.. there may be loopholes. Government's treasuries are allowed to invest in various foreign government Tbills.. so if Greece offers up the debt at the set interest, the various treasuries could purchase the debt.

Either way, there is no possible economic way Greece will survive the bailout. First the bailout is "below market price" .. but still 5% is VERY high for government debt. If Greece excepts the bailout, there is no possible way to cut the spending at such severe levels ... not without cutting major programs, which the socialist country would never stand for. But assuming GReece accepts, by the time the debt matures, Greece will either default on it, or require a bailout to pay it back.

posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 12:57 PM
Well yes greese is cooked but the UK is in a worse position and do remember greese only makes up 2% of european money so talk of it pulling the euro down is over done.

I suspect that if the USA/UK/EU goes down then they all go down and so i hold physical silver just incase but you can bet the results have already been planned well ahead of time and our so called politicians will all manage to make vast profits from the situation.

Does anyone know of a place worse than the UK when it comes to silly house prices and if the 3.5 X Income rule worked 50 years ago then it should still work today however due to the printing press i keep as much money as i can away from the british pound and banks.

posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 10:00 PM
reply to post by Dimitrios75

Great post! Starred!

Greece seems to be doing OK so far, but I'm not holding my breath.

We've got elections coming up very shortly here in the UK so things like Greece and the EU are being pushed (kept?) out of the news.

I'll tell you one thing - none of the parties are discussing Europe or the Euro, or the economic crisis in general.

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:29 AM
Update : Greek debt crisis gets worse as EU revises figures

ATHENS, Greece (AP) - Civil servants staged a 24-hour strike Thursday against austerity measures and expected job cuts by Greece's crisis-plagued government, and the EU's statistics agency said the country's budget was even worse than previously thought.

The strike disrupted public services, shut down schools and left state hospitals working with emergency staff. Protesters from a Communist-backed trade union blockaded Athens' main port of Piraeus, disrupting ferry services.

Eurostat, meanwhile raised Greece's budget deficit in 2009 to 13.6 percent of gross domestic product from its earlier prediction of 12.9 percent, while the ratio of government debt to GDP stood at 115.1 percent, the second highest in the European Union after Italy.

In comments that are sure to rattle markets, the statistics agency also expressed "a reservation on the quality of the data reported by Greece." It also said Greek's 2009 figures could be revised further, to the tune of 0.3 to 0.5 percentage points of GDP for the deficit and 5 to 7 percentage points of GDP for the debt.

Markets were shocked last fall when the government announced that the previous conservative Greek government had issued misleading financial data for years.

About 3,000-4,000 protesters marched through central Athens, carrying banners reading "tax the rich" and "Don't take the bread from our table." Scuffles broke out when about 150 demonstrators challenged police lines near the city's central Syntagma Square, and police responded with tear gas.

Greek airports remained open, however, after air traffic controllers suspended their participation in the strike because of the travel chaos caused by Iceland's volcanic ash cloud.

Labor unions fear deeper cuts after the Socialist government began talks this week with the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and the European Commission for a three-year rescue package aimed at easing the country's acute debt crisis.

"The IMF has the same cookie-cutter solution for different economies ... Now they are making a European cookie cutter," said Spyros Papaspyros, head of the civil servants umbrella union, ADEDY.

News of the revised figures sent Greece's borrowing costs shooting up to new record highs. The interest rate gap, or spread, between Greek 10-year bonds and German ones - considered a benchmark of stability - widened to 5.29 percentage points minutes after the announcement, from 5.03 percentage points earlier in the morning. The spreads translate into prohibitively high interest rates of more than 8 percent, more than twice those of Germany's.

Athens said its target of reducing its deficit by at least 4 percentage points in 2010 remained unchanged despite the revision.

"The government has already adopted all the necessary measures in excess of 6 percent of GDP to ensure the achievement of this objective," the Finance Ministry said.

It said the new figures showed the scale of Greece's financial troubles, which it blamed on mishandling by the previous, conservative government.

Greece is struggling to cope with a debt of euro300 billion ($406 billion) and needs to borrow about euro54 billion this year alone. It has a projected public debt of more than 120 percent of gross domestic product through 2011.

On Tuesday, the government shaved its May borrowing requirement by raising euro 95 billion ($2.62 billion) in a 13-week treasury bill auction that was oversubscribed. The public debt management agency said Thursday it had accepted an additional euro 450 million in noncompetitive bids for the treasury bill auction, which has a settlement date of April 23.

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:33 AM
As I Explicitly Forwarned, Greece Is Well On Its Way To Default, and Previously Published Numbers Were Waaaayyy Too Optimistic!

As was literally guaranteed by the BoomBustBlog analysis, Greece is well on its way to default, or at least the acceptance of significant aid in an (probably futile) attempt to avoid default. For a refresher, see “Greek Crisis Is Over, Region Safe”, Prodi Says – I say Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!. Subscribers should reference the Greece Public Finances Projections. Of particular note is how accurate we have been in forecasting the nonsensical optimism embedded in the Greek Government’s economic numbers, see Lies, Damn Lies, and Sovereign Truths: Why the Euro is Destined to Collapse!. Now, let’s peruse the news of the morning…

In Bloomberg: Greece, Ireland Lead Euro-Area Budget Deficit Widening to Double EU Limit

April 22 (Bloomberg) — The euro area’s budget deficit widened to more than double the European Union’s 3 percent limit in 2009, led by Greece and Ireland. I explicitly warned that these two countries were at the top of the risk chain throughout the year, culminated with a forensic report on Ireland. See Many Institutions Believe Ireland To Be A Model of Austerity Implementation But the Facts Beg to Differ! Subscribers should reference Ireland public finances projections. Ireland is in a particularly precarious position, potentially more so that Greece!

This ain't over by a long shot.

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:41 AM
Looks like Greece is getting another general strike and riots today... Not much in news about it, but tens of thousands people are demonstating there now.

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:50 AM

In Sarajevo, too... Over taxes and ... football

SARAJEVO -- 69 people, including 32 police officers, were injured in clashes in Sarajevo, Bosnia, on Wednesday. This was stated by the Federal Police Administration in that town. The protest was organized by members of the associations of veterans in front of the Bosnia-Herzegovina Federation government building. They demanded a reversal of a decision to tax their income.

Riots also broke out during a Sarajevo-Široki Brijeg match in Sarajevo on Wednesday, during which fans demolished the stadium, while some 20 injured people were admitted into the Koševo hospital.

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:55 AM
Also war in the streets in Thailand.

Explosions and all!

Two blasts hit Bangkok's business district

AT least two explosions struck Bangkok's business district, injuring at least one foreigner.

Correspondent reports by AFP and Reuters said two blasts struck the Thai capital's business area, with one person taken away by ambulance.

The Associated Press reported three small blasts struck the capital, with multiple injuries reported.

The blasts occurred during a standoff between protesters and security forces, reports said.[/URL]

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 10:28 AM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Did anyone just see that on there was a BREAKING NEWS banner at the top of the screen that said the Greece's rating had been downgraded and that the EU had increased the amount of debt the Greece owes?
I left the page and came back a few minutes later and it was gone! WTF.

Is this news or not?

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 10:31 AM
reply to post by CORN IS NUTS

O.K. now it is back as a 1 liner a little lower on the page...

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 10:35 AM
Yep it's there...


Italy, Portugal, Ireland, JAPAN, USA, UK would be good for starters.

Greek debt crisis deepens; rating downgraded

ATHENS, Greece - Markets hammered Greece on Thursday after the EU revised the debt-ridden country's deficit and debt figures upward, sending Greece's borrowing costs to unsustainably high levels and pushing Athens closer to an expensive rescue.

Further bad news emerged as ratings agency Moody's Investor Services downgraded its rating on Greece's debt by one notch to A3 from A2, and warned that further downgrades were a distinct possibility.

"This decision is based on Moody's view that there is a significant risk that debt may only stabilize at a higher and more costly level than previously estimated," the agency said.

Moody's downgrade was likely to make it even more difficult for the cash-strapped Greek government to tap the bond markets for money. The government has insisted that it prefers to access money via the markets to meet its borrowing requirements instead of resorting to a joint eurozone-International Monetary Fund rescue package.

But with investors demanding such punishing rates, the possibility of getting by without the bailout seems increasingly remote.

"Greece is in the midst of another hellish week and now faces no choice but to seek to formally activate the European rescue package," said Ben May, European economist at Capital Economics. "While this may help to ease the markets' frazzled nerves, the latest upward revision to the 2009 budget deficit highlights the mammoth task ahead."

The European Union's statistics agency Eurostat said the country's budget deficit in 2009 stood at 13.6 percent of gross domestic product rather than the previously predicted 12.9 percent, and could be further revised by up to 0.5 percentage points.

Four times the limit
The level is more than four times the EU limit set for the 16 countries that use the euro currency, which has been badly hit by the Greek financial crisis. Eurostat also revised the ratio of government debt to GDP to 115.1 percent, up from 113.4 and the second highest in the EU after Italy.

Athens insisted its target of reducing its deficit by at least 4 percentage points in 2010 remained unchanged.

"The government has already adopted all the necessary measures in excess of 6 percent of GDP to ensure the achievement of this objective," the Finance Ministry said in a statement.

The revision came as the civil servants' strike disrupted public services, shut down schools and left state hospitals working with emergency staff. Protesters from a Communist-backed trade union blockaded Athens' main port of Piraeus, disrupting ferry services.

But demonstrations in Athens were far smaller than those of other recent strikes, with just 3,000-4,000 protesters marching through the city center. Scuffles broke out when a group of about 150 demonstrators challenged police lines near the city's central Syntagma Square. Police responded with small amounts of tear gas.

News of Eurostat's revisions sent Greece's borrowing costs skyrocketing to alarming levels. The interest rate gap, or spread, between Greek 10-year bonds and German ones — considered a benchmark of stability — widened to a record 5.67 percentage points minutes after the announcement, from 5.03 percentage points earlier in the morning.

The high rates reflect market concern about the country's ability to pay back its debts. A default by a eurozone country would be a serious blow to the euro, which also has other members who face financial woes — notably Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

The spreads translate into prohibitively high interest rates of more than 8 percent — levels way too high for Greece to endure for long — making it increasingly likely that Greece will ask to make use of the joint eurozone-International Monetary Fund aid package which would provide the country with much-needed cash at lower rates. That would enable it to avoid default, at least for now.

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, whose country has been extremely reluctant to provide a bailout for a country that has repeatedly flouted eurozone rules, indicated he does not believe Greece will ask for assistance before mid-May.

Asked in an interview with Deutschlandradio broadcaster whether he thought Athens would ask for the rescue package before mid-May, Schaeuble replied "I don't think so."

The Greek government began talks Wednesday in Athens with the IMF, the European Central Bank and the European Commission this week to hammer out details for the three-year rescue package.

Debt pile
Struggling to cope with a debt pile of €300 billion ($406 billion), Greece needs to borrow about €54 billion this year alone, with about €10 billion of that next month. It has €8.5 billion worth of 10-year bonds maturing on May 19.

Prime Minister George Papandreou said his country was going through an "unprecedented crisis, ... a crisis the likes of which no other government has faced in the past."

The government's duty, Papandreou said during a Cabinet meeting, "is to take every decision which prevents the worst for Greeks, every decision which solves problems that for decades we preferred not to touch, every decision which serves the national interest."

He stressed that the rescue package would provide €30 billion in bilateral loans from other eurozone countries "if and when it is needed." The package would also provide about €10 billion from the IMF, bringing the total to at least €40 billion for this year — more than Greece needs at this stage.

"With the EU-ECB-IMF talks underway in Athens, speculation persists that Greece authorities will soon activate (the) recently established aid package," HSBC said in a note to investors. "What is less clear is whether that action, if and when it happens, will be viewed as helpful to Greece debt markets and the euro."

Greece is not the only eurozone country facing financial problems, HSBC noted. "Hence, saving Greece via the EU/IMF aid package may not stop the market from assessing that other countries may encounter similar difficulties in tapping capital markets and servicing their debt going forward."

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Vitchilo]

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 10:45 AM
reply to post by CORN IS NUTS

And CNN doesn't have aa word about it. MSM is such a joke!

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 11:05 AM
Markets Pushing Greece to the Brink

Financial markets are pushing Greece to the brink Thursday –- just begging it to activate the European Union and IMF’s financial rescue package.

There’s been a barrage of bad news: This morning, the European Union’s official statistics agency said Greece’s budget deficit for 2009 was 13.6%, higher than previously forecast by either the EU or Greece. Now, credit-ratings firm Moody’s Investors Service has lowered Greece’s rating by one notch to A3 and warned of further downgrades.

Traders in the derivatives market are pushing the cost of insurance against a Greek sovereign debt default to fresh record highs. The cost to insure $10 million of Greek government debt for five years is now $637,000, a 30% jump from $486,000 on Wednesday, according to data provider CMA DataVision. Needless to say, Greece’s cost of borrowing from the private markets has shot up to even more unsustainable levels.

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 11:08 AM
the most laughable story ever!!!
Obama asks Wall Street to join him in bank reform

President Obama travels to New York to tell Wall Street to join him in efforts to reform the nation’s banking regulations to make sure a second Great Depression never happens

posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 11:13 AM
Greek workers strike, warn of social explosion

Thousands of striking Greek civil servants marched on Thursday to protest against austerity measures, warning of a social explosion if the government agreed further cuts in aid talks with the EU and IMF.

More than 10,000 civil servants and students marched to parliament, calling for cutbacks to be scrapped, beating drums and chanting: "No more illusions, war against the rich."

Nurses, teachers, tax officials and dockers stopped work during the 24-hour strike, which paralysed public services

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