U.S. Vice Admiral Apologizes and Surrenders Himself for Afghan Deaths To Afghan Family

Originally posted by zarp3333
This may not be an empty PR gesture. Soldiers are not immune to the global awakening.

The men who stared at goats!

good film, but I don't think new age philosophy took him there with 2 goats, more likely his superiors got wind of the Frack-up and made him do the jesture in front of the media.

I Note that there was no apology tho

[edit on 10-4-2010 by dalek]

reply to post by rbilly001

Explanation: There was no sincerity on the part of the Admiral as he was ORDERED to go by his BOSS!

From Source article linked in the OP!...

McChrystal ordered McRaven to go for Nanawati, according to a U.S. military official, who said this was not the first time American troops have performed such an act.

Note: All bolds are my edits for emphasis.

Personal Disclosure: Its a PR exercise on the part of the US military and THAT IS ALL! The fantastic honour of the Afghan father in question, was USED AGAINST HIM and against us all!

P.S. The father may have accepted their apology but I HAVEN'T!

reply to post by GobbledokTChipeater


I'll hug onto that American Military.

Despite some idiots, its not all bad.

Without that military, our enemies would have invaded and tortured you a long long time ago, for nothing more than their own pleasure.

I hate sensationalism. Your post wreaks of it.

It's good to see the American military actually admitting that it did something wrong.

It would be better, however, if those who killed the women and children were brought to justice for their crimes. I doubt we will ever see that happen though.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Unless you are a US citizen, or a member of this persons family, forgiveness is not yours to give.

reply to post by altamash


I'm not even going to try and equate a gift of livestock to the death of this man's family members - there is no equivalency and those responsible should be drawn and quartered, if only the uniform code of military justice allowed for that.

That being said, what this Vice Admiral did was one of the most heartfelt displays of compassion and genuine contrition I've heard of since these two effed up wars began even if it was ordered down from on high - and was NOT simply damage control. DC for the Pentagon typically takes the form of "missing" evidence and the occasional, ubiquitous statement to the press that neither accepts responsibility nor shows a clear understanding of events.

Far as your insinuation that he somehow nabbed these sheep by nefarious means, what do you suppose he did? Butcher the farmer next door along with his family and steal them? Because that, y'know, is the typical MO for a Vice Admiral in the U.S. Navy. I can't count the times I've read about Halsey sitting in his state room figuring out the best way to... pilfer livestock.





[edit on 9-4-2010 by Legion2112]

Afghanistan is 4th world. I could tell you stories.....

The Taliban see women as dirty and treat them as if they were property, so they would view their death in many ways as a loss of income only. The value of human life is much different there than what we see it as. They have a high infant mortality rate that I’m sure this desensitizes them a great deal too. With us there or not it is a harsh life for them. It doesn’t help that they will do some stupid things like fire off a few clips from over their compound walls then just go back to farming/feeding their animals like nothing happened. Compounds don’t get invaded or attacked as some random action, I would bet as tragic as this was there was a verifiable reason why they were there.

I agree with former posts, that it is merely a Public Relations Exercise. If they wanted to truly apologise, offer the guilty soldiers over or have them tried for war crimes.

Originally posted by acrux
I agree with former posts, that it is merely a Public Relations Exercise. If they wanted to truly apologise, offer the guilty soldiers over or have them tried for war crimes.

Is it a war crime anytime a civilian dies in a war?

Yeah, I read about this "cover up" in the UK Times.

Sounds like a cover-up by the bad guys trying to explain the knife wounds on the dead bodies they dropped and possibly shot up with AKs.

Not buying the BS explanation in the article.


[edit on 9-4-2010 by jerico65]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Explanation: EPIC FAIL!

Here is why...

These US Special forces who perpetrated this obscene act of TERROR are not the only forces involved in Afghanistan!

The US is SUPPOSED to be Australia's allies and this means that you made us look bad as well and the consequences could have affected Australian Diggers LIVES! I note that suicide BOMBS are not discriminating... JUST like the lack of appropriate discrimination displayed by the US Special forces that perpetrated this obscene act of TERROR!

Bloody OATH the US OWES Australia and the other forces involved in this coalition on the War on Terror!!!

2ndly I'm a Human Being and those who were SLAUGHTERED and their bodies BUTCHERED and DESECRATED are and were my far distant relations by default of their state of HUMANITY!

3rdly I personally and unreservedly APOLOGIZE to this Afghan family for allowing this unconscionable act to have been perpetrated by the US allies of my country, Australia! I ask TPTB to arrest me ASAP and send me as a sacrificial lamb to help pay down Australia's own blood debt in this terrible and tragic criminal act! It's my fault as well that I ever allowed this to happen during my lifetime!

Personal Disclosure: I still want an APOLOGY from the US as they have offended my sense of fairness to the freaking N'th degree!

P.S. This act of utter bastardry by the US might [

I think people tend to forget what the Afghan culture is capable of in terms of inhuman treatment of fellow Afghans
and have done to each other long before the US started operations there. After all when a culture holds farm animals over a female family member and pregnant at that you have to realize
were they are on the evolutionary scale.

An act of compassion as some call it from the US military side?

Lets look a moment at the backdrop to this mans life.

Extreme poverty, lack of medical care, lack of infrastructure.

Grew up in his childhood as the US pumped billions of $ in to the region in arms, created the terrible Afghan war with Russia, trained and created the Taliban, who the CIA created and funded.

The Afghanis beat and push russians out, then the CIA & America abandon the Afghan people, this man probably in his early 20s then shell shocked already, to the murderous Taliban.

Sees the total totalitarian control of the Taliban as Russia and USA just watch the chaos they have caused.

Got beaten by "police" for 15 years if his beard was not the right length (by the poeople the CIA funded and armed) or he did not keep his wife covered and locked up.

Then a few years ago the Americans some back with much more firepower than the russians ever reigned down, and he sees hundreds of thousands of tons of bombs carpet bombing the entire country esp the mountains/caves.

Then they come by foot, he cant side with the taliban or the USA both will get him shot, attempts to feed and bring his family up in the midst of that, then one night, the most highly trained (supposedly) forces in the world kick his door in, even though wearing night visions etc and can see they are just women and pregnant ritualitically murder his daughters and unborn grandchildren, most of his family.

They then mulitate the bodies and leave.

A couple of years later when he saw more US troops arrive, with the Afghan Army in tow with another Special Forces guy they probably were terrified they would be next. I can imagine he thought it was all over, how the man is still sane and not licking dust of the desert floor I dont know.

This coward then gives him money, but wont let him know who is responsible.

This MAN offers forgiveness and does not hold hatred in his heart, even though he knew he was being used seeing the cameras for an PR stunt.

This MAN is one of the only true MEN in bloody afghanistan and certainly the only one at the meeting.

My god in America you spill coffee on yourself, or someone writes a comment about you in the press and Precious will sue for millions of $ and get it, and then probably life counselling for PTSD or reactive depression.

They gave him less than $10,000 dollars compensation, blood money for the life of each of his his daughters and unborn grandchildren?

You get more in the US for bloody Whiplash even if its your own fault.

It is not an act of reconcilliation on the US part is an totall PR stunt as the Wiki thing, a real kick in the face of this MAN and his family, by the coward admiral who wouldnt bring to justice his men for war crimes and murder.

It is putting sugar on an pile of dog turd to make it look like somethig it is not.

This MAN was again insulted by these actions, no legal action, no admition of who did it and them being court martialled.

The USA has bombed, destroyed, filled will fear, destabilised, encouraged Opium in, raped, murdered, double crossed, lied to, terrorised, polluted, used, abandoned, destroyed this MAN's entire country, culture and his life, his childhood, his family, from when he was young until now, and the final action is a even bigger kick in the face.

His family worth less than an hot cup of coffee on someones thigh?

This MAN is one of the very few in this country never mind the world, and his courage in facing his own difficulties and multidude of extreme trumas for his entire life, and seeing his own Anger and revenge within him as the enemy, not the people who did this to him has me humbled, and in awe and almost in tears.

To be courteous, respectfull and civil to the Coward insulting the death of his family, well its beyond words.

This MAN is who we all should learn of, it is only by acts of extreme bravery by such men in such difficult circumstances that this world will ever stop itself from self destructing or endless wars and violence.

IMHO he has more courage and MAN in him than any special force admiral with his slap in the face pr stunt, or any of the men under his command.

I sincerly pray tonight late in the UK I can have the qualities of this man, and that indeed such people are honored, and their message is taken on board, a true warrior of the mind and emotions, may others see him as a true hero, not murderers and emulate him world wide.

My god I want to just hug this man soo much. His grief and pain must be unfathamonable and non ending since his childhood. His bravery is astounding.

Lest we ever moan about our lot in life, and how difficult it is to go on, and keep sane or rational in the west, it is a pittance in comparison, even to those who are at the bottom of our society and homeless.


He is the True Hero of the War there.

I think he should be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Kind Regards

Elf

Originally posted by midnight_sun
I think people tend to forget what the Afghan culture is capable of in terms of inhuman treatment of fellow Afghans
and have done to each other long before the US started operations there. After all when a culture holds farm animals over a female family member and pregnant at that you have to realize
were they are on the evolutionary scale.

Just one example:
One of the worlds last great antiquity treasures, maybe a wonder of the world was destroyed in Afghanistan by the Taliban recently. It predated in evolutionary terms the USA by at least 1200 years!

When do you think the USA started operations there to?
Do you have any Idea who the Muhajjidin are or were and what led to the formation of the Taliban?

Your ignorance of Afghanistan History, Culture, Importance and effect on the world before the USA was even a sparkle in the eye of the first settlers, is all emcompassing, astounding, telling and very concerning.

This mans spiritual and human evolution is light years ahead than ANY story I have heard from an Westerner, esp someone from the USA for over a decade.

ElfSlap

Elf

Originally posted by allourep
Most terrorist are innocent people who have had everything taken from them by American Soldiers, including their families. They dont see any point in living anymore under the tyranny of our armed forces and with their completely destroyed lives, become suicidal and in one last desperate act they demonstrate, by surrendering their lives, their opposition to the needless madness and destruction our military and country has done to bestowed upon them.
They are experiencing hell everyday. We are all told that these suicidal people are savage mad men who only wish to kill us because of how happy and free we are. They kill us because we worship wrong gods? And so many of us buy into it.

This story conveys the sanity of these people. A person who can accept such an apology after having SO much taken from them is incredible. If that happened to most Americans, they wouldn't accept anything until somebody was put to death, slaughtered or whatever it takes to make them feel satisfied. America has literally been duped into thinking the sane is insane and vice versa.

Are you really that ignorant to facts?

America has had problems with the middle east since the 1800's when we started to kill their pirates trying to raid and KILL our soliders/cargo ships.

If you honestly wish to sit there and say America is the bad guy and the middle east are all innocent victims in America's evil tyranny you are beyond a complete and utter moron. I suggest you go get educated fool. America does have its faults and blames(what happened to that mans' family is unforgivable) but to suggest America is to blame for reacting to threats posed to its people? LOL take ya bleeding heart else where.

Originally posted by Gakus
Are you really that ignorant to facts?

America has had problems with the middle east since the 1800's when we started to kill their pirates trying to raid and KILL our soliders/cargo ships.

I am sure though that afghanistan has no pirates, being landlocked.


Oh and I am sure that many are not soo ignorant to think Afghanistan is is anywhere near the Middle East or even in the same continent??

Google has a Map section to you know.

Elf

reply to post by MischeviousElf


The picture you paint of the mans life is good. It really snaps the abstract into reality a little better, and provides a more empathetic mindset. Well done.

But i encourage you to consider your point of reference on the value of the contrition. The value of the sheep is immaterial. It has nothing to do with this. It is a ceremonial offering. If it were ceremonially 10 tons of gold, it would be the exact same thing: a cultural/ceremonial offering.

Now, i am not saying that it was not capitalized on as a PR opportunity. But that, too, is immaterial. It is about the action, not the attached value. That concept is evidence of a Western mindset observing this event and projecting itself on the event.

It isn't about money. It is about respecting cultural nuances.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Explanation: EPIC FAIL!

Here is why...

These US Special forces who perpetrated this obscene act of TERROR are not the only forces involved in Afghanistan!

The US is SUPPOSED to be Australia's allies and this means that you made us look bad as well and the consequences could have affected Australian Diggers LIVES! I note that suicide BOMBS are not discriminating... JUST like the lack of appropriate discrimination displayed by the US Special forces that perpetrated this obscene act of TERROR!

Bloody OATH the US OWES Australia and the other forces involved in this coalition on the War on Terror!!!

2ndly I'm a Human Being and those who were SLAUGHTERED and their bodies BUTCHERED and DESECRATED are and were my far distant relations by default of their state of HUMANITY!

3rdly I personally and unreservedly APOLOGIZE to this Afghan family for allowing this unconscionable act to have been perpetrated by the US allies of my country, Australia! I ask TPTB to arrest me ASAP and send me as a sacrificial lamb to help pay down Australia's own blood debt in this terrible and tragic criminal act!

It's my fault as well that I ever allowed this to happen during my lifetime!

Personal Disclosure: I still want an APOLOGY from the US as they have offended my sense of fairness to the freaking N'th degree!

P.S. This act of utter bastardry by the US might [

reply to post by OmegaLogos


As a human being if this makes you this upset I would love to read your posts on let’s say the 2 to 3 MILLION killed, tortured, starved, raped etc in Darfur....what no posts?....oh my!

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by MischeviousElf

 

It isn't about money. It is about respecting cultural nuances.

Again, not taking away from the abject evil that was inflicted buuuuut... was that not what was being done by the offering of the sheep?

God I'm gonna get the eff flamed out of me now...