U.S. Vice Admiral Apologizes and Surrenders Himself for Afghan Deaths To Afghan Family

Originally posted by Rockstar02
I'm in no way saying that this applies to everyone. I understand many people support troops, their actions and the lengths they go to. Yes, what we did in Haiti was great, but even through that, there were criticisms regarding their ulterior motives. Still, when they do good, we still find a way of turning it into bad...

Well that is true
But you gotta keep in mind
The U.S. has military bases all over the globe
Not other country comes close in comparison

So of course some would think of alterior motives
Even I thought of it as well

I would defend U.S to no ends though in their involvement in the Korean War however. Every situation is different

Originally posted by Rockstar02
I was not trying to demonize anyone. I'm sorry if I came across that way. I was just bringing up another point or view to the story. I apologize if my thought pattern does not match everyone else's regarding this topic.

Oh don't worry about that
If you look at my posts I very often never match other people's thought patterns.

Although I disagreed with what you initially said I would still tell you to always say what you feel regardless of what the majority is saying.

I apologize too if I had an aggressive tone, but you know written vs. verbal is often like that. If you heard me speak my tone would have seemed very friendly.

reply to post by Rockstar02


Thanks for that reply

I suppose we should all just be grateful that we don't have to face that question.

My heart bleeds for those parents of young soldiers who don't come back from these war zones ... just seems such a waste.

Your right though the military chiefs should be more caring about what they do and how they do it. Perhaps there would be less 'accidents'







[edit on 9-4-2010 by bigyin]

Explanation: Let's have a look at how the Admiral saw it...

"I am the commander of the soldiers who accidentally killed your loved ones," McRaven told the family, according to the Times of London, which was present for the meeting. It was the first time special operations forces acknowledged their participation.

Note: All bolds and underlines are my edits for emphasis!

Accident??? Total BS!

Oh and for those members who are arguing over what forces an Admiral can command in the US, I present to you...

Admiral Mullen [wiki]

Quote from source...

As the CJCS, Mullen is the highest ranking officer in the United States armed forces.

Note: All bolds are my edits for emphasis.

Personal Disclosure: PR exercises like this cheapen the lives of all those who were INJURED and or KILLED!

P.S. I note that the blood debt is still not paid in full...

The family only asked McRaven to hand over whoever gave him the intelligence that led the joint American and Afghan force to their home on the early morning of Feb. 12.

"You don't have to give him to us," the family told McRaven, Tahir said. "At least hand him over to the Afghan government."

2 sheep and an intelligence officer is the REAL cost to be fully forgiven!

So far the US has only paid 2 sheep! And that IS CHEAP as far as the US is concerned! But there is still a US intelligence officer who needs to be handed over and that [most likely] will be a PRICE TO HIGH for the US to stomach and pay up in full!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Well cheers to you then! I'm glad we can see each other's points and take them in and let them "marinate" as I like to say. I do realize the dominance of America's military and I definitely agree there are many situations in which we ARE the perpetrator or bad guy.

Thanks for the views though dude. See that's the problem with this whole internet thing...one's tone cannot be heard through sentences. Weak...

Again, cheers!!

It should have been more like this:

"I am the commander of the soldiers who intentionally killed your loved ones. I came here today to send my condolences to you and to your family and to your friends. I offer you myself and the soldiers who committed these crimes. You may do whatever you may like with us. I also came today to ask your forgiveness for these terrible tragedies in the name of the American people who are not behind those giving us orders."

reply to post by ModernAcademia


SsnF for you as I am always amazed that I select so many of your threads without realizing before opening said thread that you have created them ModernAcademia! We must think on the same lines.....

Thank you for posting this thread. These two wars should never have been started and we are creating terrorist constantly by our actions. I just cannot believe the immoral acts that are carried out these days in our names. I served 1970 to 1976 and cannot believe how far our troops will go these days. War is insane but these actions are not of a civilized nation.

IMHO there should have been a herd of assorted animals rather than just two. We are suppose to be helping these people or have I missed the point?

To me this means something.

If his heart is sincere, I must say I have respect for this American military officer.

I hope that his journeys and mistakes in life are teaching him that the only way to have the world we all want to live in is to stop the violence.

This may not be an empty PR gesture. Soldiers are not immune to the global awakening.

This may be a sign that the brainwashing is losing its affect on even the most critical front line agents of chaos, hatred and control.

If we see banksters becoming less recalcitrant, we will truly know something grand is truly happening.

Visualize Peace, love and harmony.

Sheep offering
Arriving in a cavalcade of trucks and armored vehicles, three Afghan soldiers pinned down a sheep and held a blade to its throat in a traditional Afghan gesture seeking clemency. Then an elder summoned them inside and McRaven offered his condolences.

source

Three Afghan soldiers pinned down the sheep...held a blade to its throat...in a traditional gesture seeking clemency?!

What kind of a goddamn planet am I on?

"The surest sign of Intelligence in the Universe is that none of it tried to contact us."

Ulitimately the fault lies with the terrorists here. It is they who hide amongst civilians and non combatants whilst they plan their raids and roadside bombing activities. Why do they hide amongst women's skirts?
why not wear an uniform as real men do?

so some civilians were killed in the name of freedom. may more be thusly honored.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by joey_hv]

reply to post by ModernAcademia

this is propagand. THEY trying to get the attensjon away from the wilkileaks video

Originally posted by Another Vodka
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

I firmly believe that at it's very foundation, all war between humans is essentially wrong. It may take thousands of years for us to understand that we are better than that. Leave war to the animals who must compete. Provide food, shelter, support to the people of the planet. We must care for one another and care about our planet.

But animals don't do war, they at best fight for survival.

As for the nature of the apology, he did the right thing in light of the Afghani culture. To westerners and others it may not seem to be enough. Consider, however, the western court system. A convicted murderer of innocents (by a heinous crime or even as a result of a motor vehicle accident) is tried and all she/he can offer is: "I'm sorry". What does it really mean? It's meaning will vary depending upon the person and circumstances, but that's all they can do... state that they are sorry. I have always wondered if this is enough. Does the example add to the karmic history and further our species towards enlightenment? Or are we just mistaken homo sapiens trying to survive and strive toward homo hypersapien existence?

The right thing would be to not shoot pregnant woman in the first place. This act in it self is unacceptable... there is no excuse for it, even with the father pseudo-forgiveness.

This man, this simple Afghan has shown us all how to be. It wasn't a replacement for his beloved family. It was an offering of peace and forgiveness. Something most Americans will never understand.

What have we become?

Have any of us truly pondered this?

We do not have honor, humility or even much empathy anymore.

We have become a country that needs to be flushed.

It is no longer my Government that I dislike.

I am getting so I really dislike mainstream Americans, my people that I have always loved and protected, laid my life on the line for. A nation that the majority has been left empty because of the corporate influence.

A Godless greedy nation that even refuses to help each other unless they feel they will get something out of it.

A nation of uncivilized dog eat dog animals.

This simple man has more humanity in him then any one hundred Americans combined.

We have become what we are supposed to be against.

Forget God bless America, those day are over. Now it needs to be God forgive America.

May God help us to see the light again.

Originally posted by AGENTJa
I had all but given up hope that we had honorable men in our forces we could be proud of. But here is at least one shining example. Let him be a model for all of our troops to look to. I just hope he's an example and not thought of as weak by this generation of halo playing kids. This is an example of who america wants representing them. I'm proud that he wears our uniform.

Proud for what exactly?

For a guy that kills innocent people? Even worst, pregnant womans.

A guy that does all that and yet is able to keep his post and his sanity?

Honestly a person with true remorse would instantly leave it's post, abandon this whole meaningless war, go home and put a bullet in his brain.

What exactly he is defending that makes you so proud of?

For what cause is he fighting for that justifies such crimes?

In my opinion anyone with a bit of good sense is ashamed of our flag and country as whole.

I see it as more of a symbolic gesture by the Vice Admiral. Its not about the value of the sheep, nothing is worth the life of your loved ones. In this case its about gaining the hearts of the afghan people. Maybe the Admiral actually felt bad about the incident and needed to do it for himself, or maybe the military made him do it in a bid to win over the people in that area. only the Vice Admiral knows the truth.

By apologizing he stopped a potential suicide bomber, saving countless more lives. This proves that America in the Middle East is one of the primary reason for suicide bombers. This proves that violence only sheds more violence. Just an apology saved a man from committing suicide and killing many others.

reply to post by zarp3333


Please!

People that enlist into the army love to shoot, love the idea of being able to kill or the authority of being able to do so, otherwise they simply wouldn't be on the armed forces to begin with. There are really only a few exceptions but they usually either come back home in plastic bags or crazy with serious psychological problems that most often are irreversible.

Originally posted by Phlynx
By apologizing he stopped a potential suicide bomber, saving countless more lives. This proves that America in the Middle East is one of the primary reason for suicide bombers. This proves that violence only sheds more violence. Just an apology saved a man from committing suicide and killing many others.

Wouldn't be simply easier to simply don't shoot children, pregnant womans or innocent people in general? Or even better, don't shoot at all and go home?

That would have save two womans, two unborn babies, one father's mental health, prevented one possible suicidal bomber of being born, countless others that were witnesses of having reasons to become one and consequently countless lives.

There is no heroism in his act. The true heroes of this war are the ones that refused to be part of it.

normally I would be very cynical about this, in a very "dead family members for sheep? absolutely unacceptable" kind of way.

however, it's best to the note the US military has never really apologized about anything, not sincerely anyway. I think the people in the countries we fight wars in have been plagued all kinds of issues with no sympathy from their antagonists. It's nice to know that some people in charge have a soul.


buuuuut just to keep myself and others from getting too far up the US' ass about this, this is also probably a PR move, especially with the release of that WikiLeaks video.

Originally posted by thomas_
reply to post by zarp3333

 

Please!

People that enlist into the army love to shoot, love the idea of being able to kill or the authority of being able to do so, otherwise they simply wouldn't be on the armed forces to begin with. There are really only a few exceptions but they usually either come back home in plastic bags or crazy with serious psychological problems that most often are irreversible.

Only about 25% of any military is combat arms.

The other 75% drive trucks, cook food are mechanics, carpenters, engineers, doctors, nurses, dentists, fuelers, supply, clerks, lawyers, chaplains, and even musicians.

[edit on 9/4/10 by MikeboydUS]