U.S. Vice Admiral Apologizes and Surrenders Himself for Afghan Deaths To Afghan Family

Oh yeah.. now that wiki-leaks is posting videos of people being slaughtered THEN we start apologizing..
whatever.

b

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Let us not forget, the Commander must have followed the advice of a translator who knew the local customs. I give credit to the commander that listened. Try that with Muslim Country commanders. This is the difference in being humble and knowledgeable.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Such a good guy...

Kills two pregnant womans and then gives the family two sheep...nice. True American hero spirit.

I wonder why his soldiers shot down two pregnant womans in the first place. And why he didn't gave 4 sheep to the poor father instead, since that is the correct number of innocent people that his army has killed in this episode alone.

Sorry... but this for me is nothing but pure cheap PR.

Originally posted by broahes
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Stories like these are always hard to judge.. On one hand, I think it's admireable that he took this step, but on the other hand.. a couple of farm animals to replace a loved one? I know that they are important, but come on..

Boy talk about missing the cultural point by a country mile!

Given all the recent atrocities regarding US troops in Iraq you really have to ask yourself whether or not something like this is sincere?
Especially with the most recent wikileak video its almost as if the "admiral" is doing this for show. To make us forgive and forget, but we all know it will still continue.

Nothing to be seen or obsorbed here folks.

He gave the sheep because recent events, and the press inclined him too.

Not sincere, therefore it's pathetic mind candy for suckers, just like the ones in this thread that said they had "tears in their eyes".

Most terrorist are innocent people who have had everything taken from them by American Soldiers, including their families. They dont see any point in living anymore under the tyranny of our armed forces and with their completely destroyed lives, become suicidal and in one last desperate act they demonstrate, by surrendering their lives, their opposition to the needless madness and destruction our military and country has done to bestowed upon them.
They are experiencing hell everyday. We are all told that these suicidal people are savage mad men who only wish to kill us because of how happy and free we are. They kill us because we worship wrong gods? And so many of us buy into it.

This story conveys the sanity of these people. A person who can accept such an apology after having SO much taken from them is incredible. If that happened to most Americans, they wouldn't accept anything until somebody was put to death, slaughtered or whatever it takes to make them feel satisfied. America has literally been duped into thinking the sane is insane and vice versa.

Originally posted by Redneck from Hell
Nothing to be seen or obsorbed here folks.

He gave the sheep because recent events, and the press inclined him too.

Not sincere, therefore it's pathetic mind candy for suckers, just like the ones in this thread that said they had "tears in their eyes".

It's not about the Vice Admiral as much as it is about the "crazy afghani suicide-bomber wannabee" who gave forgiveness.

It says a whole lot about this entire useless war and about the enemy that washington is unable to define.

What a cliche gesture, 2 sheep for 5 people including 2 unborn babies? If I was the dad I would've blown the admirals brains all over the wall.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

U.S. Vice Admiral Apologizes and Surrenders Himself for Afghan Deaths To Afghan Family

abcnews.go.com

In the dusty Afghan village where U.S. troops killed two pregnant women and three other innocent civilians in February, a remarkable scene played out today between an aggrieved father and the most senior special operations officer in the United States military.

Vice Admiral William McRaven -- the commander of Joint Special Operations Command -- showed up with two sheep, and in the cultural understanding of the region, surrendered himself.

He didn't literally surrender. But he didn't have

(visit the link for the full news article)

Two sheep for two pregnant women....that's cheap. Seriously....that's a bad trade.It would be easy to apologize when you haven't lost anything. A more suitable trade would be a daughter for a daughter, but then the cycle of vengence just goes around and around. If you ask me, the true hero here is the "father" who was able to forgive after having his family murdered.. NOT who the hero looks like here "the JSO Admiral". All he did was say I'm sorry and hand over a couple of sheep. The father was the one who sacrified all.........and then forgave the murderer. He's the true hero here!

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Phenomium]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I firmly believe that at it's very foundation, all war between humans is essentially wrong. It may take thousands of years for us to understand that we are better than that. Leave war to the animals who must compete. Provide food, shelter, support to the people of the planet. We must care for one another and care about our planet.

As for the nature of the apology, he did the right thing in light of the Afghani culture. To westerners and others it may not seem to be enough. Consider, however, the western court system. A convicted murderer of innocents (by a heinous crime or even as a result of a motor vehicle accident) is tried and all she/he can offer is: "I'm sorry". What does it really mean? It's meaning will vary depending upon the person and circumstances, but that's all they can do... state that they are sorry. I have always wondered if this is enough. Does the example add to the karmic history and further our species towards enlightenment? Or are we just mistaken homo sapiens trying to survive and strive toward homo hypersapien existence?

I had all but given up hope that we had honorable men in our forces we could be proud of. But here is at least one shining example. Let him be a model for all of our troops to look to. I just hope he's an example and not thought of as weak by this generation of halo playing kids. This is an example of who america wants representing them. I'm proud that he wears our uniform.

I don't believe this man was sincere in his apology. I think an insincere apology is worse than no apology at all and the father that forgave him did so out of naivety; he thought the vice-admiral was sincere in his words and actions because he assumed the vice-admiral was a man of honor like himself.

edit: spelling


[edit on 9-4-2010 by devildogUSMC]

I am surprised the father accepted the gift and forgave... with only two sheep..after he lost 4 family members.
I do not admire the soldier who gave it to him..as it is obviously a PR move.
I hope karma will catch up.

Sheep are a sign of wealth in their culture dating back to the Biblical times.You can't make cheese with an Ipad or a video game for that matter.

On the scale of things it is pretty valuable in their culture, a man's worth is based upon the size of his herd and are essentially money.

A kind and well publicized gesture, but reading between the lines,
that is the job of the media to maintain the illusion.

It does appear to be damage control used to help bolster support of these wars with the American public. Especially an American public that is embittered even moreso in regards to the wars by the recent Wikileaks release.

If we made a geniune concerted commitment to help out more of these people I would consider this a sincere effort in which to make amends.

But as it stands, I feel that if this February incident hadn't leaked over the Internet, we would have heard nothing about this at all let alone this staged media event.

Originally posted by broahes
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Stories like these are always hard to judge.. On one hand, I think it's admireable that he took this step, but on the other hand.. a couple of farm animals to replace a loved one? I know that they are important, but come on..

I guess this is why I feel so blessed to wake up every day not having to deal with this on a daily..

The innocent life lost in war is never worth the "evil" defeated..

There is something called sentimental value.

Just like the last words of a loved one. Doesn't matter what it is worth to outsiders, it means the world to the ones involved.

I don't think anyone knows what the hell they are doing anymore.

edit - I do want to say I also think this is just a publicity stunt. A SINCERE apology would go unnoticed or unheard until the man himself comes back and tells his own war stories...not some media outlet.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by FritosBBQTwist]

No apologizing and no amount of sheep will ever bring back those poor souls. The slaughter happened (happens all the time), then it was heard about. Attempted to be covered up. Failed. Next resort? Feel good story for Americans to read and continue to support the war.

Soldiers are disgusting animals

Do Vice Admirals serve in the Army or Marines? Afghanistan is quite a ways from the ocean in the regions that matter.

That said, it is a kind gesture. Not sure if it could mean much though. Too many die for protecting their own homeland, and they are labeled terrorists for trying to kill the ones who will kill them.

Afghanistan used to be a sovereign nation. A new party arrives and decides to stop bending over for the west, (via eliminating opium), and they are immediately tagged as a terrorist org. We can't have that, so former EXXON exec Hamid Karzai is installed. Can anyone see the conflict of interest?

Not to mention the "alleged" Caspian Sea pipeline.

What would have been more faithful and demonstrative, would be for the actual officer who ordered the strike to fess up and apologize. Why was a completely different branch of our military forced to beg down?

It seems as fake as our president or secdef saying we are sorry.

My opinion is damage control. If we were really sorry, then we would pull out and leave them alone. Too many private vested interests who insist on pulling this off. The russians couldn't do it.

We helped fund the resistance when USSR tried to do it. Who's to say they aren't paying us back by funding our opposition? The whole- If I can't have it, noone will maxim...

Everyone seems to miss the fact that 9/11 was all Saudis with zero affiliation to Taliban or Al-q-something. According to the official word. They can't even settle on a spelling for one guys name, much less the org he commands.

They could have pinned it on cobra commander and most would eat it up like pudding, given as much exposure its gotten thus far. Never questioning.

Iraq and Afghanistan are unjust and cruel wars. Its legal to bomb people if you have orders. They are not supposed to fight back! But, in America, its illegal to defend yourself against the police. Whether it be local, state, or federal. That includes military. Its the same deal.

It seems like our country is not that important. It seems like its more important to keep killers abroad, (we learned them that,LOL!), than it is to strengthen our own side.

Just my own little rant.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Death and heartbreak are a part of all our lives if we live long enough. Putting a human face on this and accepting blame will apparently allow these people to move on. It does not remove their sorrow and loss. It will perhaps allow them to continue their lives. The Admiral did this according to these people’s traditions. Those traditions were in place for centuries to help soothe people experiencing similar pain.

What this also does is remind those injecting themselves into the lives of these people that they are despite any cultural differences, deserving of the utmost consideration. If the act was staged, it will have no lasting impact and will quickly fade from memory. If it was in the least bit sincere, it will likely change the lives of a few on both sides. Time will tell. And as the old adage goes “It sure beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick!”

Someone should have told the Bush administration about this custom.

After Shock and Awe and its aftermath, instead of ignoring or dodging the criticism for the high number of collateral damage, they could have just opened up a few semi-trucks full of sheep and inundated the survivors with them.

Of course with the number of dead, and the sheep required, Iraq would probably look white from space.



- Lee