U.S. Vice Admiral Apologizes and Surrenders Himself for Afghan Deaths To Afghan Family

U.S. Vice Admiral Apologizes and Surrenders Himself for Afghan Deaths To Afghan Family

abcnews.go.com

In the dusty Afghan village where U.S. troops killed two pregnant women and three other innocent civilians in February, a remarkable scene played out today between an aggrieved father and the most senior special operations officer in the United States military.

Vice Admiral William McRaven -- the commander of Joint Special Operations Command -- showed up with two sheep, and in the cultural understanding of the region, surrendered himself.

He didn't literally surrender. But he didn't have

(visit the link for the full news article)

ATS, A VERY important message is here!

And the father -- whose has lost two sons, two daughters and one grandchild -- accepted McRaven's apology, according to family members and Afghan investigators.

"I am the commander of the soldiers who accidentally killed your loved ones," McRaven told the family, according to the Times of London, which was present for the meeting. It was the first time special operations forces acknowledged their participation.

"I came here today to send my condolences to you and to your family and to your friends," McRaven said. "I also came today to ask your forgiveness for these terrible tragedies."

Presenting sheep is such a powerful form of requesting forgiveness that the father is now obligated not to take revenge, even though he has told reporters he wanted to become a suicide bomber.

"We were very happy he came to our house," said Mohammad Tahir, the brother of the two men and father of the 18-year-old woman who was killed, referring to McRaven. "We told him, 'Thank you very much. We will not keep anything in our heart against you

The war on terror got a little sunlight!
This makes me think that suicide bombers are mostly suicidal than bombers. They are grieving!

Can you imagine foreign troops killing pregnant american women? Would an apology be accepted here?
Who the hell are we man, what have we become?

Instead of wanting revenge the father decided not to become a suicide bomber based on the most simplest of gestures.

Will the war on terror learn ANYTHING from this?

Admitedly he only came to apologize with two sheeps once the report was released by the media, so we can be a little cynical, sure!

But the opportunity to learn from this even is something that we shouldn't miss.

It's a HUGE message being sent here and I hope that the entire planet learns from it.

This huge stupid senseless war based on lies... how many lives could have been saved? How much less blood would have been spilt? How many families wouldn't have fathers fighting an immoral war on the other side of the planet, how many kids wouldn't have lost a father, how many wives wouldn't be widowed?

Let's not allow the opportunity of learning from this to escape us!

abcnews.go.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Can you imagine foreign troops killing pregnant american women? Would an apology be accepted here?

We have no use for sheep. I imagine it would have to be something more substantial and useful like two iPads or 2 copies of BattleField: Bad Company or maybe 2 backstage passes to American Idol.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Stories like these are always hard to judge.. On one hand, I think it's admireable that he took this step, but on the other hand.. a couple of farm animals to replace a loved one? I know that they are important, but come on..

I guess this is why I feel so blessed to wake up every day not having to deal with this on a daily..

The innocent life lost in war is never worth the "evil" defeated..

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Its just PR, they do things occasionally for PR, probably based on the stuff getting out through Wiki Leaks.

When devils shock you with a public display like this, its not something that means a thing. Its intended to give you, the American back home, and you, the European angry at the American back home, a sense of a "change" in attitude, or to make it seem they don't really have a bad agenda, they're really all John Waynes, and oops, bad things happen occasionally.

Originally posted by broahes
a couple of farm animals to replace a loved one? I know that they are important, but come on..

It's not the importance of the farm animals but that it represents "begging for forgiveness".

Keep in mind, these are very religious people

Originally posted by Unity_99
Its just PR, they do things occasionally for PR, probably based on the stuff getting out through Wiki Leaks.

When devils shock you with a public display like this, its not something that means a thing. Its intended to give you, the American back home, and you, the European angry at the American back home, a sense of a "change" in attitude

Oh I don't disagree with that
But for those that are pro-war, perhaps they can learn something from this.

Not of the attitude of the vice admiral but of the attitude of a grieving father who said:

But the incident so inflamed the family, the father initially vowed to take revenge, "even if it breaks me into pieces."

"I have lost patience. I am obliged to revenge my martyrs," he told an ABC News cameraman on March 18. "I will destroy everything I have and will launch my own suicide attack. My heart is burning."

Just saying sorry in what is their way of saying sorry was needed.
That's all!

These are just people, very simple human beings!

[edit on 9-4-2010 by ModernAcademia]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


oh no, I didn't mean it like that, just my own personal reflection on the story.. sorry I didn't clarify that.

Thank you for posting this though. I always enjoy most of your threads.. mainly because you stay involved in them.

This just raised tears in my eyes - fathers forgiveness... Whoa!

Well done. War is hell, but peoples are still there suffering.

I hope the same strenght from all coming comanders of these aawfull military disasters - also killers of reuters journalist.

S/F!

This story was on CNN this morning and they showed the father saying that he would not be happy with just sheep and the money offered, he wanted the spies that gave the wrong intel delivered to him. Didn't see an admiral involved, maybe I missed that part.

This story definitely seems like damage control.

Doesn't it just make you all warm and fuzzy inside?

*Hugs the American Military Machine*

I just thought of a new way to protest the war.

Flood all the major sites in Washington with herds of live sheep.

New Zealand, are you listening? Could use your help here.

Initial feeling is that this is indeed one of the few positive things I have seen the military do in response to these "collateral casualty" incidents.

Sadly I agree with most of you in the fact that it is a lame ass PR op for the military.

If this is all it took all we would need is about 500,000 more sheep and we would be good. Let's just put a static line jump rig on the sheep and dump em out of C130's across the entire middle east with little notes that say "we're sorry for the genocide". Case closed, there's peace in the middle east!

What to think ...

- In the midst of war, humanity, forgiveness, and compassion prevailed, if only for a brief moment and this story is what it seems to be on face value.

or ...

- The cameras and press were shuffled along to witness a contrived PR exercise to counteract the waves of costly mistakes by our military exposed over the last few weeks.

How much cynicism is too much cynicism?

My gut feeling from a little reading up on the Vice Admiral is that he is a man of conscience and is probably honest and earnest in his gesture. But I also suspect his superiors are using his virtue for every last PR drop they can squeeze out of it.

And so it goes ...

Originally posted by ararisq

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Can you imagine foreign troops killing pregnant american women? Would an apology be accepted here?

We have no use for sheep. I imagine it would have to be something more substantial and useful like two iPads or 2 copies of BattleField: Bad Company or maybe 2 backstage passes to American Idol.

Speak for yourself. I'd take the sheep, thank-you-very-much. I like sheep. I have a use for sheep. If I breed them, and they have little sheep, then I have lamb chops, or even more sheep. Besides, I think the ipad is a silly waste of money, I have no idea what Battlefield: Bad Company is, and I wouldn't let you drag my corpse to the backstage of American idol. Even if they did give me those things under similar circumstances, it's the thought and effort that counts anyway. At least they are trying. (Although, I'd be muttering 'I'd rather have sheep.' But, I'm sure you see my point.)

Now that all of my inferiority/superiority complex posturing is over, (although the facts are technically true... especially about the sheep...) I think it was a good effort at a culturally sensitive gesture, and a significant mia culpa. Certainly prompted by all of the media attention, but hopefully it will do some good non the less.

reply to post by schrodingers dog

- In the midst of war, humanity, forgiveness, and compassion prevailed, if only for a brief moment and this story is what it seems to be on face value.

I choose to believe this...


*Even if it was "damage control" or "PR" it does not negate that for a brief moment, everyone remembered that we are all human and that real suffering is happening ... A simple, yet powerful message to realize and remember.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog




How much cynicism is too much cynicism?

There is no such thing as to much cynicism when dealing with people that have an agenda and history of lies, power and corruption.
The military never, ever has used compassion as an operating system.

They laugh at you as they chump you out and call you fools behind your back.

Schools out!!





[edit on 9-4-2010 by whaaa]

You guys are missing the point entirely. And like typical Americans are often accused, merely thinking about the monetary value of the sheep.

This has nothing to do with sheep and everything to do with the meaning of a gift of sheep to the people in Afghanistan.

Kudos to this Vice Admiral for not only recognizing an apology was due, but providing a gift of meaning to its recipient. It's about time that Americans realize there are traditions and cultures in other parts of the world that are extremely important and should be recognized whether we fully understand them or not.

You really think this man wanted an iPad? Give me a break!

Wonder how much he paid for those two sheeps or even by what means did he acquire them.

Plus that is definitely damage control. If they were serious, they should put down their weapons and start herding sheeps.

I just had tears come to my eyes reading that article. Why aren't we handing out sheep everywhere, we could then bring all the troops home and stop this senseless war?

reply to post by ararisq


because this is america the country of retards who know nothing but pleasure and no hard work! the sheep can give the poor people wool for cothing and when the sheep is old enough it according to the muslam religeon will be slaughterd for food with no suffering unlike how cows and sheep are killed here for meat. what would and i pad or some stupid game about war or a pass to the back stage or a bunch or retards who know nothing but singing and getting loads of money that they will never even give a dollar to the poor do??? this is what the media wants you to think. your on a friken consperacy wabsite!!!!!!
no offence but you seriously have to change your thinking!