How to order a pizza after Obama Care is in full effect.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by lpowell0627
I didn't mention Obama anywhere in my post, so why don't you just stick to the facts that I wrote.

This thread is about OBAMA CARE. You can tell by reading the title where it clearly states OBAMA CARE.

It may say Obama Care, but it's not a factor in what I was saying regarding the taxing of products considered "unhealthy". I am not so naive to think that this is strictly an "Obama" thing -- especially since, as I said, it is starting on the state level.

But it is a good use of energy to jump on an Obama bashing bandwagon with something that happened well before him or his care plan? How does that make any sense?

Again, I didn't mention Obama nor did I bash him in any way. Further, I'm certain you are not saying that my words are tainted by the words of others and somehow their meaning gets mixed in with mine?!

This is ATS. Please find out what it stands for.

Next time, read the thread title. Read the other posts in the thread. Especially read what you respond to. Good luck next time.

I am well read and well versed in the discussion.
Perhaps if people would realize that this problem spreads beyond Obama -- and is NOT a right / left issue -- we could actually get somewhere.

I posted facts.
It is pertinent to healthcare reform.
The taxes I speak of are a direct result of that.

However, our differences lie in the fact that I am seeing the big picture, while you are focused on the current face in the White House.

Originally posted by endisnighe

What, you do not think the government will not tie taxes to unhealthy things?

[edit on 4/9/2010 by endisnighe]

How is that a bad thing. Have you seen us Americans lately, do you know the obesity numbers. Clearly the so-called free market has betrayed us allowing the creation and mass consumption of fast foods and processed foods full of preservatives and chemicals that have pushed obesity to epidemic proportions.

I think that a tax on unhealthy foods and a reduction the prices of fresh fruits and veggies would be advantageous to the country as a whole. Imagine the reduction in chronic illnesses just from bringing the country's weight down to acceptable levels.

Its more likely that they will continue hocking their pseudo-food and continue fattening us up like cattle that way when they make their check mate move we'll be too complacent and lethargic to fight back.


[edit on 9-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Originally posted by lpowell0627
It may say Obama Care, but it's not a factor in what I was saying regarding the taxing of products considered "unhealthy".

I know and that is called going off topic. Perhaps you are not familiar with how this forum works. Threads are about a topic. That topic is what is discussed in there. Titles are not to be disregarded so that you can just talk about anything you want to.

I am not so naive to think that this is strictly an "Obama" thing -- especially since, as I said, it is starting on the state level.

Then start a new thread. This one is about Obama Care.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull

Originally posted by endisnighe

What, you do not think the government will not tie taxes to unhealthy things?

[edit on 4/9/2010 by endisnighe]

How is that a bad thing. Have you seen us Americans lately, do you know the obesity numbers. Clearly the so-called free market has betrayed us allowing the creation and mass consumption of fast foods and processed foods full of preservatives and chemicals that have pushed obesity to epidemic proportions.

The problem is because it spreads. Anything and everything is unhealthy -- including vitamins -- when consumed in excess. So, by going after products that "cause or contribute to obesity" it leaves them almost an endless array of products to tax.

Grapes and corn are an excellent example. Both are considered healthy, however the amount of natural sugar in them is astounding! Trust me -- eat grapes and corn by the bushel and you will put on weight.

Further, by taxing regular soda, they are indirectly pushing diet soda. Diet soda contains artificial sweetners which are known to cause health problems as well.

I think that a tax on unhealthy foods and a reduction the prices of fresh fruits and veggies would be advantageous to the country as a whole.

Nobody said anything about lowering the price of anything. Further, with the terrible weather, produce is poised to be expensive this spring and summer.

Imagine the reduction in chronic illnesses just from bringing the country's weight down to acceptable levels.

If you look at some of the demographics of poorer, over-weight Americans, you will see that this tax will have no effect on reducing obesity on a large scale.

If they really wanted to put a dent in it without costing tax-paying, hard-working Americans more money, they would not allow food stamps and/or welfare or government provided money to be spent on fast food and such.

Lastly -- nobody is going to lose weight unless they exercise. So, for the government to claim this is some big "let's get healthy" scheme -- it's not. It's to help them close their budget gaps and nothing more.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Well, if you would have WATCHED the video, it is not ONLY about Obama Care.

It is about Orwell, taxation among other things.

So if you WATCH the video, you may understand why people are bringing up taxes.

OH and another THING, Obama Care is about TAXES!

Just to let you know.

[edit on 4/9/2010 by endisnighe]

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Well, if you would have WATCHED the video, it is not ONLY about Obama Care.

It is about Orwell, taxation among other things.

So if you WATCH the video, you may understand why people are bringing up taxes.

OH and another THING, Obama Care is about TAXES!

Just to let you know.

[edit on 4/9/2010 by endisnighe]

If you actually READ the conversation, in the context of the horrible things Obama is doing to tax us, this NY softdrink tax was brought up. It was NY state under president Bush that came up with it so it DOES NOT APPLY AT ALL IN THIS THREAD. Justify it any way you want but what Patterson did has nothing to do with Obama Care and linking it to him is dishonest at best.

This video was already posted on ATS:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Before "Obamacare".

reply to post by K J Gunderson


As the other stated, this should not be a left right dem repub thing. Our government is going crazy on the taxes.

A lot of what the States are doing is because over the years, both parties implement something and mandate the States need to start paying for it.

That is why you get states arguing about the mandates the Fed gov is doing. Just because the states raise taxes, does not mean it is not the Fed gov's fault.

Question for you, with the downturn in property values, have any states re-evaluated the property tax? Of course not, in many states they have actually raised the percentage.

Tax and Control is all the government can do. They cannot provide anything but money they stole from the people. But with their theft and control they implement more bureaucracies to implement these ideas. Which in turn drives up costs.

It is an ever growing boulder of idiocy, picking up weight and corruption as it rolls down the hill of control. Government is a management system. This system has become so fraught with problems it is time to re-evaluate this system.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

As the other stated, this should not be a left right dem repub thing. Our government is going crazy on the taxes.

A lot of what the States are doing is because over the years, both parties implement something and mandate the States need to start paying for it.

That is why you get states arguing about the mandates the Fed gov is doing. Just because the states raise taxes, does not mean it is not the Fed gov's fault.

Exactly! This is how politicians get around raising taxes when they promise not to -- they send the bill to someone else, in this case the states -- and then the states have to come up with a way to pay for it while already dealing with lower revenues to begin.

This fits true with the sayings: Poop rolls downhill. --or -- The fish rots from the head down.

It's not the person that pulls the trigger you have to keep your eye on -- it's the one that orders him to.

It is an ever growing boulder of idiocy, picking up weight and corruption as it rolls down the hill of control. Government is a management system. This system has become so fraught with problems it is time to re-evaluate this system.

I don't know why people can not see that we are making less and less and the government is taking more and more. It seems fairly simple to me?!

reply to post by Wookiep


I did a search, the name was changed so it did not show up. Thanks for the connection to the other thread.

[edit on 4/9/2010 by endisnighe]

This video blows things way out of proportion! That is not the way things are done in Scandanavia or any other "socialist" hellhole.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


No, it does NOT blow things out of proportion. It shows what can and will be done in the future.

If you actually think that the government and insurance companies do not do these sort of things, you would be mistaken.

Tell me, who lobbied for the seatbelt laws?

I could bring up hundreds of examples such as the seatbelt laws. It is the bottom line thing for the corporations.

If twenty years ago you asked me if I thought the government would mandate purchasing an insurance policy, I would have told you, you were crazy.

Boiling frog!

Fifty percent of the Americans are badly educated, stupid or very rich...the other fifty percent are highly educated, smart, poor but to lacy to do whats necessary...the people who believe that things like video are going to happen...well they represent the first example...

reply to post by OddTimeSignature


Really, you lumping me in with the stupid, uneducated or the very rich?

Hmmmm? Begs to the reason that you believe that the tax on suntanning booths INCLUDED in the health care bill does not EXACTLY espouse what this video engenders.

Sorry, just trying to understand the STUPID comment you posited.

Want to go round a debate? Or are you just here to espouse idiocy and ignorance?

reply to post by endisnighe


The most aggressive policy Obama was arguably pushing for was a single payer system like that in Canada, the UK, France, and every other modern industrialized nation. People in Canada, the UK, and France eat things other than sprouts and tofu. The smoke, they drink, and they get to eat food that is much better than our own!

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

As the other stated, this should not be a left right dem repub thing. Our government is going crazy on the taxes.

Do not get me wrong, I agree with that statement.

Unfortunately however, I can read the thread title and the OP. Correct me if I am wrong but this thread specifically targets one side, in fact one person from that side, does it not?

A lot of what the States are doing is because over the years, both parties implement something and mandate the States need to start paying for it.

That is why you get states arguing about the mandates the Fed gov is doing. Just because the states raise taxes, does not mean it is not the Fed gov's fault.

Question for you, with the downturn in property values, have any states re-evaluated the property tax? Of course not, in many states they have actually raised the percentage.

Tax and Control is all the government can do. They cannot provide anything but money they stole from the people. But with their theft and control they implement more bureaucracies to implement these ideas. Which in turn drives up costs.

It is an ever growing boulder of idiocy, picking up weight and corruption as it rolls down the hill of control. Government is a management system. This system has become so fraught with problems it is time to re-evaluate this system.

Great! Sounds like a good idea for a thread. You should start it. I will continue in this thread within the given context of it. After-all, I would just hate to get one of those "off-topic" stickers and all.

I am really sorry that you do not want to discuss one side or the other. The OP of this thread obviously feels differently and given that context, my first reply was perfectly in line with that. This thread is about president Obama, not anyone else. This thread is not about the gubment or any other abstract. Look at the title.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


The title I posted was directly given by the video. I like to try and keep the name of the supplier or the name of the source as close as possible to the original.

That way if someone does a search for it, it comes up. As someone else noted, they changed the name of the thread instead of keeping the original video name. Otherwise I would have found that one.

You are right to be "slightly" pissed about the origination of the name.

Hell, the reasoning behind the President being the dumping ground of the American people, when in fact the Congress actually is "supposed" to be the source of the law, is a conspiracy in and of itself.

One person being the focus instead of the ones that ACTUALLY write the law.

Originally posted by redmage

Originally posted by endisnighe
Eliminate all income taxes and property taxes. Eliminate all fees, licensing, etc etc etc on HUMAN BEINGS. Tax the corporations and banks.

Interesting ideas; however, they fall flat in practice. The corporations simply "jump ship" by relocating their HQs to tax shelter Caribbean Islands, and in more drastic situations they take the production plants (jobs) to other countries as well.

Easy. Put a tax on anything imported or exported, including money and snail mail. Also, if a corporation in another country is running their business here, like you said they do . . . tax them for it. If they do not pay, they are shut down. Problem solved, and it is true way our country was intended to run.

[edit on 4/9/2010 by Lemon.Fresh]

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


No, not "easy".

What you're suggesting are tariffs. Just like with taxes, the majority who oppose them also support the notion of "free trade", thus they're equally opposed to tariffs (especially when discussing those with major lobbying dollars).

It's easy to say "shut them down", but the fact of the matter is that Americans want their Budweisers (Belgian owned), Sony BRAVIA flat screens and PS3s, IBM PCs (Chinese owned), etc., etc.. The list goes on and on. Since the days of Christopher Columbus, and long prior, people have always coveted "foreign" goods; so it's not solely an issue of "American" companies moving their HQs offshore. You're in for a long struggle against the U.S. majority if you expect them to accept a large dent to their "quality of life".

Personally, I think closing corporate tax loopholes is a bigger priority than cutting personal taxes, but the prior is a fight against our government itself (as it's "run" by corporate lobbyists).

Originally posted by endisnighe
As for eliminating all the taxes, one flat tax of sales could run the government.

Interesting theory, do you have any evidence supporting such a system would be functionally successful? This certainly wouldn't eliminate all the taxes, as sales taxes would shoot through the roof; however, with no direct income tax people would have more spending cash to attempt to afford such a plan.

Originally posted by endisnighe
And taxes on corporations alone I did not mean higher than other country's, I would suggest just a little under the lowest in the world.

I don't see the issue being the rate itself. So long as major corporations aren't paying, the rate itself is irrelevant. I'd rather close the corporate loopholes, then figure out a new "fair" rate (if necessary).

Originally posted by endisnighe
The majority of our government's income does NOT come from personal income taxes.

Google the CAFR's and take a looksee where our government gets it's income from.

All personal income taxes go to the Federal Reserve.

You're right, the majority of our federal gov's income doesn't come from taxes; most is from corporate investments (the same corporations who are dodging their own taxes through gov. created loopholes).

Also, it's true that all personal income taxes go straight to the Fed to pay interest on our federal gov's loans. That's why I'm in favor of getting rid of the fed, and closing corporate loopholes; however, and again, fighting corporate loopholes is fighting the government itself. If we're ever going to fix this whole mess, the citizens are in for a looooong struggle.

reply to post by redmage


Duuuude, am I getting through?


The Federal Reserve, supposedly, is a US system. It is NOT!

Second, combine the IMF and the Federal Reserve, they are the same entity.

I was thinking of contributing more, but I think I have said enough. Hell, as long as I do not become the president, I will not be shot!

Think about this, if $1 dollar in 1913 equals $.03 today, where did the $.97 go?!

Think about that!