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English Defence League: Racism or Nationalism?

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posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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Recently the English Defence League, Click here please Came to Dudley in the West Midlands, England and it's where I live.
There are a varied opinions about the English Defence League, some see it as a Facist far right group and label them as racists, counter protests are held by Unite Against Facism, Please click here and from what I have seen from various youtube videos, Unite Against Facism are denying the English Defence League their say, is this not facist? By denying anothers opinion and voice are they not acting in a facist manner?
Others see the English Defence League as a main focal point of the voice that many working class people in this country feel they do not have.

Here is the question, are they a racist group or are they a nationalist group?

I can understand that there is a very fine line between racism and nationalism, some people confuse them for being one and the same when IMO nationalism is about loving your country, the values you were brought up with and keeping your country the way you, the people, want it.
I'm all for people coming to this country, aslong as they embrace our ideals and live in our society in a harmonious way, what annoys me is when people come to this country, rape our systems for all they are worth and while doing so despise everything this country is and what our ideals are.

Any Americans or Australians reading this can you sympathise with I am saying here? You love your countries, you want your country to hold the ideals and values that you know and hold dear to your hearts.

Just to add here are a few videos of the English Defence League in Dudley, my hometown.







So you've heard my brief opinion on this.... now I'd like to hear yours...


[edit on 8-4-2010 by Resentedhalo08]




posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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I'm going to say that in some respects I do agree with the UK being a lot more stringent with regards illegal immigrants and their being here - our systems are buckling and so many things are falling apart in this country.

As much as I thoroughly despise (New) Labour and the Conservative party, I honestly don't see any other opposition party being capable of running the country either.

With regards the EDL - at least they're standing up for something, which is rare in these times, my problem is they all look so, well, thick.

Yes, I do think there are racist overtones to them.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by Resentedhalo08
 


What do the EDL actually stand for? What do they want? You hear a lot of reports about marches clashes etc but what is their ideology? Do they have a manifesto?

Do they aspire to be a politcal party, pressure group, protest group?

Questions, questions, questions....



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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The EDL was formed on the 27th of June, 2009 due to frustration at the lack of any significant action by the British Government against extremist Muslim preachers and organisations such as Islam4UK, Hizb ut Tahrir, the Islamic Forum of Europe, the Muslim Council of Britain - the list goes on.


and



Like many citizens of England, and indeed the United Kingdom, we have sat and waited for our Government to address these issues for many years, but they have done nothing of substance. Indeed, much of the funding that they have supposedly dedicated to the problem has actually gone to fund these preachers of hate, who are entitled to ‘anti-radicalisation’ funds as long as they do not explicitly advocate violence. This is unacceptable.


English Defence League: Who are the EDL?

From their website

Now, whilst it all sounds rational, my gut tells me wolf in sheep's clothing.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Peruvianmonk
 


There are a lot of mixed messages about the English Defence League and none of them actually coming from the group themselves, there's a lot of smoke and mirror tactics being employed by various "anti" facist groups, a lot of propaganda and misrepresentation.

Taken from the English Defence Leagues website, this is what the stand for in their own words...




We, the English Defence League, are a grass roots social movement who represent every walk of life, every race, every creed and every colour; from the working class to middle England. Our unity and diversity is our strength.
We have members that represent our culturally rich, “patriotic” and nation-loving populace. People who can see the threat of “Islamism” for what it is: a vile and virulent ideology based on 7th century barbarity, intolerance, hatred, subjugation and war.

English Defence League members recognise that this threat is one that must be stopped at all costs. Our Christian, Jewish, Sikh, and Hindu friends all have tales to tell with regard to Islamic Imperialism and “Orthodox Teachings”, in particular the Wahhabi/Salafi doctrine of “killing unbelievers if they refuse to be subdued by Islam”. As the Quran points out in Surah 5 verse 33.......

“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter”

Of course this all depends on the context of what “waging war” entails, and of course what constitutes “mischief in the land”. Well, to Islamists, the very notion of not believing in Allah means that you should be punished, as that is considered an act of war, an act of mischief that should be duly punished as Allah ordains clearly here in this verse.

As a movement we don’t hate all Muslims, we respect their right to practice their religion peacefully as long as it does not infringe on our culture, our way of life, our rule of law and our customs. If any non-Muslim was to visit a Muslim country then that person would be expected to respect their rule of law, their culture and their way of life. Who could disagree with that? What we don’t agree with are Muslims trying to import a doctrine of hate, intolerance and murder into this country, and trying to promote it and institutionalise it through unregulated Mosques, funded by Wahhabist petro dollars.


Click here to read more

[edit on 8-4-2010 by Resentedhalo08]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by Resentedhalo08
 


I think i'll pass on them, got better things to do.

And as for the real Islamic threat within this country, i.e. the small proportion of Muslims willing to commit violence against Britian, MI5 is all over them.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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I live just down the road from you in Oldbury. My brother was at the march last Saturday..... I haven't lived around here for the last 22 years so I can see how much the area has changed and to be honest with you its not for the better....
I think the building of the mosque is THE line in the sand that had better not be crossed for the sake of peace. I know for a fact that the EDL plan to march there once a month until the plans are dropped. I also know of many people who have their own ideas if it carries on too.... Some are going to continually spread pigs blood and remains on the proposed site, and some are planning more extreme things...
To be honest, the last thing I wan't to see driving into Dudley is a multi million pound mosque... And truth be told, I am not the only one.... I know it sounds racist, but I know how these things work. Once it is built, Dudley will belong to muslims in their eyes..... That aint happening.....

"You come here... You abide by our ways... Or piss off..." Peoples tolerance is done... Well it is around here anyway... They own all the properties. Most of the businesses... They have been given more than indigenous English in terms of housing etc, and people have had enough...


Before people get on their liberal high horses... Those are not my words but theirs... They have had enough of it...

I can't say much because I haven't lived here for a long time, but those who don't live here won't understand either... And even less when it kicks off here...

[edit on 8-4-2010 by Yissachar1]

[edit on 8-4-2010 by Yissachar1]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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I feel both groups, EDL and UAF are a symtom of the systematic systems failures that has been on going in the UK for some time now.. until the root cuase of the unrest is sorted this will only get worse.

In my opinion both groups pose an equal risk of turning into nasty groups.. tho the UAF seems to be the grouping that is furthest down that route at the moment.

Not long ago a UAF forum was disussing why such groups as they define as facist are not popular in my neck of the woods, but the bit they miss is that they are not popular either..

The pressure groups in the UK only beget more pressure groups...

[edit on 8/4/10 by thoughtsfull]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by Resentedhalo08
 


I think i'll pass on them, got better things to do.

And as for the real Islamic threat within this country, i.e. the small proportion of Muslims willing to commit violence against Britian, MI5 is all over them.


Yes, However whilst there is a small minority who are willing to commit violence against Britain, there are scores more who hold the same values and preach the same kind of hate.
People who do not care about this country and what values we hold... it is this belief that is dangerous and will undoubtably spawn more people who are willing to commit violent acts.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Yissachar1
 


Thank you for your post mate, I completely agree with you, people around here have had enough!
It has changed a hell of a lot through the years, people are getting very annoyed with peoples attitudes and it will only be a matter of time before either side kicks off.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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I will tell you what is insane, giving your country away to an alien culture that engages in a hostile warrior code further eroding the basic laws of Western civilization. The fact that the spineless eunuchs running the UK have let it go this far are grounds for treason and should be held accountable to the most predjudice of the Crown.

The EDL and the BNP are the only hope Britain has to avoid subjugation by hostile invaders, that will within 20 years, install Sharia in an Anglo Saxon country. Tragic. They need to pull their forces from Afghanistan and deploy them to Trafalgar, unless they want the Queen wearing a ninja suit.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by Resentedhalo08
 


Yeah some attitudes stink..... Take Victoria Park for instance... No whites allowed... The same area where those four English born Taliban came from...

I remember years ago...... I wonder what people from the lost city would have done!



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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It is attitudes like this man, Anjem Choudary who make my blood boil and it is this attitude that is steadily growing in some mosques in the UK





[edit on 8-4-2010 by Resentedhalo08]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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I walked down Dudley high st the other day there' s nothing left worth going there for it's a tatty shadow of it's former self full of drug addicts visiting the gold shop or cash converters let them build their mosque i don't really care.Hopefully Cameron will introduce a quoter system for immigration and we can put an end to this madness.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Resentedhalo08
 


Why do you mention Australians and Americans?

Is it because they have a lot of immigrants too?

It's kind of ironic seen as loads of British people have been moving to Australia, or does that not matter?

The EDL and UAF have totally put me off being even remotely interested in what they stand for when I see their "protests" on the news where they both yell at and scuffle with each other.

For god's sake this isn't 1930's Germany........hmmm then again.

Also it it seems to me many people keep saying how they hate people coming to our country and erroding our values when what they mean to say is they hate muslims and non-whites coming to Britain. Some but certainly not all are just using the issue of immigration and the idea of nationalism as an excuse for their racism.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by Resentedhalo08
 


Why do you mention Australians and Americans?

Is it because they have a lot of immigrants too?


No not at all, I mention them because they were the two countries that were on the top of my mind that have a strong national identity and pride in who they are.

But if you like you can add any country that has a strong national identy and pride in their culture, India, Japan, Russia could also be used as examples, it was just so that The US and Australia were the one's I thought of first.



Originally posted by Kram09
Also it it seems to me many people keep saying how they hate people coming to our country and erroding our values when what they mean to say is they hate muslims and non-whites coming to Britain. Some but certainly not all are just using the issue of immigration and the idea of nationalism as an excuse for their racism.


No not at all, what I hate is people coming to this country and taking it for all it's worth while not embracing any of the values that we stand for, but yes you are correct there are some people who hide behind the issue of immigration who are out and out racists, I am not one of them and I resent any kind of attack that tries to label me as such.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by Resentedhalo08]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by Resentedhalo08
 


Fair enough, I see your point.

As you said there is a thin line between nationalism and racism and I feel that some people are clearly abusing it and going way over the boundary.

Those people are just serving to aggravate the situation in my opinion.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Kram09
 





what they mean to say is they hate muslims and non-whites coming to Britain.


Not true... Members of my family are out of work BECAUSE of white immigrants... The Polish....
The Romanians have the habit of driving around the local building sites in vans, threatening workers, then stealing their building materials and copper boilers and pipes in broad daylight!... There is more than enough anger at foreigners whatever colour they are...

I wish I had never moved back here...

[edit on 8-4-2010 by Yissachar1]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Yissachar1
 


I absoloutly agree with you, this has nothing to do with skin colour and EVERYTHING to do with values.

There are many eastern european people in this area who do not hold the values of which we as a country hold.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Yissachar1
 


Even in the outliyng towns i'm hearing of east european pick pockets and complaints from the Priory about their anti social behavior. Even in Sedgley where murders are extreamly rare two south Africans managed to murder a guy last year.



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