'No US Troop Survives If Iran Is Attacked'

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by Awory

 

One of the largest in the world? I'm so sick of hearing that tired old crap. Who cares if its the largest in the world when the tanks are 50 years old and the airforce consists of a few hundred planes that are themselves obsolete and outdated. My god...........people like you are clueless. If the US military ever went up against a real enemy with a solid air force and navy the loss of life would be staggering and the America people would probably lose their stomach. The Iranians are tough bastards. Make no mistake about it. I love seeing all our soldiers over in Astan humping through the desert with all their fancy gear, 60+ pound packs, camel backs, knee and elbow pads, goggles, gloves, etc. None of that crap makes a damn bit of different. 80% of the US defense budget is spent on worthless crap and waste. Our state of the art Navy would be absolutely useless in a ground war with Iran in the desert. I could go on and on............but some of my fellow Americans live in their little GI Joe America f'yeah bubble of a world. AMERICA IS BROKE! We are in debt up to our eyeballs. Hell most of us don't have jobs.

Actually about 40 percent of the budget goes toward pay. Unemployment is 10 percent, may 18 if you count underemployed people. But that is not "most".

The Iran-Iraq war lasted a good 8 years. It was mostly a WWI style fight, lots of fixed defense by the Iraqis, and lost of human wave attacks by the Iranians. Most of them charged into battle with a copy of the Koran and looked to pick up a weapon.

Both militaries claimed a victory, though really nothing was decided. Iran lost about 500,000 to 1,000,00 dead, thought they claim they only lost about 180,000.

All European countries (UK, France, Italy) and the US got their hands dirty in this. The US did play both sides, but mainly because they didn't really want either to 'win'.

As for a US lead Iranian invasion, the best the Iranians could hope for would be IED and insurgent style tactics. In a straight military to miltary fight, they stand no chance.

And something else fun as well, as per wikipedia:

Besides the US and the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia also sold weapons to both countries for the entire duration of the conflict. Likewise, Portugal helped both countries: it was not unusual seeing Iranian and Iraqi flagged ships moored side-by-side at the port town of Sines.

From 1980 to 1987 Spain sold €458 million in weapons to Iran and €172 million in weapons to Iraq. Spain sold to Iraq 4x4 vehicles, BO-105 Helicopters, explosives and ammunition. A research party discovered that an unexploded chemical Iraqi warhead in Iran was manufactured in Spain.

Originally posted by elevatedone
Reminds me of the 90's,

Saddam and his Republican Gaurd, who were going to wipe out the US Froces.

That would be the same Saddam and Republican Guards that threw them selves at the Sha’at Al Arab Waterway that separates Iraq and Iran for 8 long years killing MILLIONS on both sides, but getting NO WHERE?

The U.S. in fact benefited greatly from the attrition of the Iraqi Army by the Iranians in the Iran/Iraq war and the low morale failing to win the war left the Iraqi forces in.

Still it would be foolish to forget that we then waited another decade to let crippling sanctions further erode the Iraqi military and morale before attempting a sojourn all the way to Baghdad.

The Iraqi military which the CIA in the 70’s theorized attrition of was key to Israeli military hegemony in the Middle East was so large and so formidable, it was taken on piecemeal, first by proxy through Iran, then through the limited but significant military action of the Coalition during the First Gulf War and then through a decade of debilitating sanctions meant to cripple the remnants of it.

Even after all that, while occupation came relatively easily, maintaining that occupation has been costly in U.S. dollars and lives and there is still no real security in Iraq.

Iran on the other hand has had an opportunity to first be the victor in the Iran/Iraq war and the moral confidence that gives a military. They have had the opportunity to forge new alliances for strategic equipments, stockpile weapons, ordinance, and ammunition, develop a broad and proactive intelligence network throughout the region, and develop strategies for dealing with varied military contingencies with oil money rolling in, and Russia and China and North Korea all willing to sell them arms and technology.

While the propaganda war ongoing against Iran makes it seem like civil unrest is high, the truth is most of those reports are heavily exaggerated, and the deeper truth is that an attack by a foreign power, be it Israel or the U.S./U.K. is simply going to galvanize the Iranians to unite to oppose it.

It is doubtful Khomeini could have held together Iran long in the aftermath of the Islamic Revolution if it weren’t for the galvanizing effect of the Iraq attack on the nation.

The team sport, us versus them, USA were number one bravado, doesn’t take into consideration a lot of the logistics and elements that are a very real part of these conflicts.

We to date haven’t won anything lasting or substantial in Afghanistan or Iraq, the 7th and 5th ranked failed states on the failed states list after 10 long years of war and occupation.

How we would fare with Iran ranked at 42 on the list, while still mired in those two other failed conflicts is not really the kind of certainty, people who take the team sport, USA we’re number 1 approach to these things imagine it to be.

In the words of my dearly departed Grandmother, I wouldn’t let your eyes get bigger than your stomach, and finish what’s on your plate already first.

Thanks.


[edit on 8/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

I am absolutely disgusted, yet not surprised by how many idiotic Americans still stand for the crap the US is doing. Some of you actually supoport it.

INVADE INVADE KILL KILL, and everybody stands for it, because most are absolutely clueless.

Whats wrong with Iran actually telling the US to go F with someone else? Everybody knows that a reason is going to be manufactured, just like Iraq, so that the US can take what they want. And it will keep doing it till the end of goddam time.

"Why do they hate us", makes me sick, and this goes for the whole world, not just the Middle East.

When does it end?

America is rapidly declining. The parallels to other historic empires are blatant. The Nazis also thought themselves to be unbeatable.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by Redneck from Hell]

Originally posted by Faiol
us wont attack iran ...

they prefer to attack countries that dont have an army

lol ... war against insurgents really? if you get your home destroyed, I bet you would become an insurgent

deny ignorance

Saddam had one of the largest and most powerful armies in the world in 1991.

Within two weeks, a massive air campaign had brought it to its knees.

Most people simply don't comprehend what kind of air power the US has.

If we fight Iran it will be like Iraq 1991. Meaning we will leave the country in ruins, establish no fly zones, and blockade it. Maybe after 12 years of laying seige, then we might decide to go in, if it is worth it.



[edit on 8/4/10 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by Faiol
us wont attack iran ...

they prefer to attack countries that dont have an army

lol ... war against insurgents really? if you get your home destroyed, I bet you would become an insurgent

deny ignorance

Saddam had one of the largest and most powerful armies in the world in 1991.

Within two weeks, a massive air campaign had brought it too its knees.

Most people simply don't comprehend what kind of air power, the US has.

If we fight Iran it will be like Iraq 1991. Meaning we will leave the country in ruins, establish no fly zones, and blockade it. Maybe after 12 years of laying seige, then we might decide to go in, if it is worth it.

Yeah keep on killing innocent people.

Thats all you people know how to do.

reply to post by Redneck from Hell


Thats all humans know how to do.

There isn't any innocent nation or ethnic group on this planet.

[edit on 8/4/10 by MikeboydUS]

There won't be any troops at all in Iran. If the # were to hit the fan, it would be strictly an air war, using stealth bombers and UAV's to drop satellite guided bombs on select targets.

Anyone thinking the US is going to send in ground troops is an idiot quite frankly....

Originally posted by disfugured
reply to post by Kaytagg

 

We were told Iraq had a more powerful army than Iran...

Who told you that ?

I guess either you're young, or you weren't paying attention to the coverage at the time. Here's an example, though: www.highbeam.com...

Iraq celebrated its victory in impressive ceremonies. But, suddenly, Saddam began a series of moves which frightened Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. He emerged with a million-man army, the biggest in the Middle East and described as the fourth largest in the world. The most frightening aspect was that, while Iraq appeared as a regional super-power in military terms, the country was virtually bankrupt in economic terms.

That doesn't specifically say that Iraq had a more powerful army than Iran, but the theme of the articles remains pretty consistent for the time -- being that Iraq is a potent threat, and we HAVE to act quickly to disable them, lest they threaten THE ENTIRE WORLD's peace. It seems laughable now, but back then, people believed this stuff.

...Look what happened to the Iraq army. Quashed in 1 day.

This i Iran and from the info I've researched, Iraq doesn't have anything near what Iran has. Iran is not a third world country as many think and is one of the most modern countries in the ME.

Where have you been doing your research? I have no doubt you'll find an article, somewhere, saying Iran is right on the cusp of being a threat to the USA, but in reality, this is not the case -- we saw the same rhetoric with Iraq, with Russia, with Vietnam, and more recently with China. It's always based on ignorance and -- imo -- a desire to have a fantasy escape from reality due to the tedious and unrewarding nature of most American's lives.

People need to realize that states like Iran aren't really a threat to us, militarily, any more than Iraq was a threat in the early 2000s. Hell, Israel, alone, could win a war with Iran; and israel's military is even weaker than ours.

You mean countries like Iran.

Not that this should matter at all, because it's semantics, but technically you are wrong, and it's incredibly sophomoric of you to actually, in bold face, try to correct me on this point:

Country and State are synonymous terms that both apply to self-governing political entities. A nation, however, is a group of people who share the same culture but do not have sovereignty.

www.infoplease.com...

Iran also has the largest paramilitary in the world. Invading Iran would hurt the US far greater than what Iraq did with the States.

Who cares how large their paramilitary is? How is that relevant to anything?

Why do you think it would "hurt" the US any more than invading Iraq hurt us? And how is it hurting us, exactly? I haven't been hurt by Iraq -- have you?

Originally posted by Prime-Vector
reply to post by Faiol

 

They attack anyone they want, they have had weather control and a "death ray" since Tesla invented it before he died.

Small army, large army makes no difference to them, if they want it over they can make every iranian soldier believe there prophet is speaking to them and freak them out, they have done it in previous wars.

What technology and in which war was it used ? Never heard or read of anything like that happening.

reply to post by Awory


LOL...........and I'm sure many people had your views when we went into Afghanistan. Don't worry we aren't like the Russians..........we are better....blah blah blah.....10 years later we are in the same position the Russians are in or worse.

That's the entire point...........Iranians won't have to engage us head on military to military to wreak havoc on US forces. Hell they are already supporting the insurgency in Afghanistan and look how much of a headache they are causing. Where the hell do you think the Taliban and other terrorists are getting all their funding, weapons, support?

Originally posted by elevatedone
Reminds me of the 90's,

Saddam and his Republican Gaurd, who were going to wipe out the US Froces.

My thoughts exactly. Look what happened, they surrendered in mass and Sodamn Insane was hangin'

I don't support a deliberate attack but as stated by someone else, if it's in defense, then do what needs to be done.

Iran's Ineedajob is all talk, no balls.
Crazy? Yes!
Stupid? No, I don't think he would risk utter annihilation to prove he has the balls to stand up to the west. All he has done is talk. Let him have nukes but make it clear the minute he unleashes one on anybody...he is a dead man.

reply to post by Acid_Burn2009


Haha yeah right.......you think that is the case? HELLO! Look at North Korea. They actually have nuclear weapons and threaten to use them against the US mainland and our military and government does nothing. You think they will go after Iran once Iran becomes nuclear? Nope. It will be another North Korea and the US and the rest of the world will placate and submit to Iran like they do NK and the US will go on to bully some other weaker nation in the name of terror. In the face of a real threat the US has shown time and time again that we fold like a littler girl.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
Where the hell do you think the Taliban and other terrorists are getting all their funding, weapons, support?

From Pakistan.

The Iranians arn't on the best of terms with the Taliban. Iran has its own Al Qaeda related insurgency on Pakistan's border in Baluchestan.

I wouldn't put it past Iran to detonate nukes on it's own soil to destroy an invading force.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
I wouldn't put it past Iran to detonate nukes on it's own soil to destroy an invading force.

Thankfully we wouldn't be invading.

Nuking your own country isn't very helpful in stopping B-2 stealth bombers and cruise missiles.

[edit on 8/4/10 by MikeboydUS]

This is a funny debate. We have the America haters, and those who think Iran would be leveled in minutes.

Iran can say anything it wants to. N. Korea can say whatever they want, so can Russia.

The guy in the White House isnt going to do anything. It doesnt matter.

When you leader believes that all of the ills of the world are his nations fault, there is no way he would attack anyone, for anything. Just the news piece the other day about not nuking anyone who attacks us shows that no matter what happens, we will just sit here and take it.

If anyone goes after Iran, its Israel, Obama wont back them, he has no reason to.

reply to post by MikeboydUS

If we fight Iran it will be like Iraq 1991. Meaning we will leave the country in ruins, establish no fly zones, and blockade it. Maybe after 12 years of laying seige, then we might decide to go in, if it is worth it.

Iran has a modern infrastructure, and if the US/Britain destroys it all and kills civilians, another 50 million Iranian's will hate you on top of the 20 million that already hate you/us.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by john124]

Originally posted by Faiol
us wont attack iran ...

they prefer to attack countries that dont have an army

lol ... war against insurgents really? if you get your home destroyed, I bet you would become an insurgent

deny ignorance

You are going to have to back that up that we don't fight against other armies. Trust me that you are just going to embarrass yourself when you can't back it up.

reply to post by Kaytagg

I guess either you're young, or you weren't paying attention to the coverage at the time. Here's an example, though: www.highbeam.com... Iraq celebrated its victory in impressive ceremonies. But, suddenly, Saddam began a series of moves which frightened Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. He emerged with a million-man army, the biggest in the Middle East and described as the fourth largest in the world. The most frightening aspect was that, while Iraq appeared as a regional super-power in military terms, the country was virtually bankrupt in economic terms.

He might of had the 'biggest' standing army in the ME at that time but were very ill equipped and outfitted with outdated weapons. Just becauce he had a million goons wearing camo does't mean they were well trained soldiers.

Where have you been doing your research? I have no doubt you'll find an article, somewhere, saying Iran is right on the cusp of being a threat to the USA, but in reality, this is not the case -- we saw the same rhetoric with Iraq, with Russia, with Vietnam, and more recently with China. It's always based on ignorance and -- imo -- a desire to have a fantasy escape from reality due to the tedious and unrewarding nature of most American's lives.

I like how you did that. you added a post from a different poster with one of mine then asked where I did my research. Clever, but not going to work. I never said Iran crushed Iraq in one day. I did say Iran fended off the Iraqi's from invading their country. I also never once mentioned Iran is a threat to the United States.. so you've confused me here..

Not that this should matter at all, because it's semantics, but technically you are wrong, and it's incredibly sophomoric of you to actually, in bold face, try to correct me on this point: Country and State are synonymous terms that both apply to self-governing political entities. A nation, however, is a group of people who share the same culture but do not have sovereignty.

You used the term 'State' to undermine Iran otherwise you wouldn't have called Iran a State but rather a country in which it is. I made it bold to signify the ignorance. Thats what I got from it. Not because I have an inflated ego and tried to correct you.

Who cares how large their paramilitary is? How is that relevant to anything?

It shows they have much more fire power and resistance than Iraq ever did. How is that not relevant to anything.. Paramilitary presence in Iran would make urban warfare extreme. Also, if the US invades Iran, you don;t think that would involve other countries ? Perhaps stirring up a hornets nest.. Most Americans have the, "my dick is bigger than yours" attitude and its disgusting. What does it take for people to look at other perspectives other than their own for # sakes.

Why do you think it would "hurt" the US any more than invading Iraq hurt us? And how is it hurting us, exactly? I haven't been hurt by Iraq -- have you?

I cannot believe you're even asking these questions. Are you truly that ignorant ? Over 4 thousand American soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq. America has made the ME more unstable. Most of the world has began to hate America. The US dollar is falling heavily. Mostly because the US spends and prints money to fund their BS wars. Half of the USA's GDP goes towards the war budget. Invading Iran will result to way the hell more casualties and cost trillions of more tax payers money. Increase the already massive debt. ..And yes, I have been hurt by the US invading Iraq.






[edit on 8-4-2010 by disfugured]