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For those who had been following AstroEngineers thread...Full Story is now available

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posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 07:04 PM
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By comparing the mystery thumbnail to the EDRs ultimately archived we saw that this merge transform involved placing new image data on top of the original image, replacing or obscuring content. The details of the discovery of this merge transform were interesting but will need to be withheld; I haven’t thought of a way to tell that part of the story without hiding Rich’s identify with implausible lies.
(Emphasis mine.)

This, I feel, is the crux of the story. The thumbnails received apparently contained enough detail for someone to determine that there was some information in the photo that needed censoring. It would take some amount of time for a human being to peruse the image and write the code to perform the editing to be sent back to Spirit. The fact that this communication may have occurred at speeds faster-than-light (though very interesting in its own right) does not affect the time for human intervention.

What I would really like to see is one of the thumbnails and the corresponding full resolution image.


It just never really seemed to us any more than pareidolia; seeing shapes you recognize in clouds and other random data.


Well, if the DoD could see it, I'm sure that some of the many eyes here on ATS could too.




posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 07:12 PM
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This is an intriguing story. Unverifiable, but the author does a nice job of taking things through a lot of the technical steps, which proves that he at least has a lot of hands on experience with the computer systems involved. Does that mean it's legit? No.

Now, my personal opinion is that he probably has the data still, just on a thumb drive. There is mention at points of using thumb drives for data, after all, and he only says he wiped the laptop. Also, he proves that he is cognizant of the ability to run VM's on a thumb drive, which is certainly wht I would be doing, if I were doing something like that!

So, my conclusion is that this is at least somewhat legit, and the author is, as suggested by the end of the story, looking for collaborators, because he doesnt want to step out alone. But I think there is a catch, too. I suspect that he and his mystery friend may have only have assumptions about some of the things detailed as facts, and may even be looking for confirmation. Or, conversely, the story is by someone investigating the event, trying to draw the people who actually did the deeds out.

Point is, there is validity to it to a point, because the technical details are very solid.....but there is no proof of the actual data or the conclusions, so it only amounts to a compelling story combined with a fishing expedition by the author.

Probably the best story of this sort that Ive seen on ATS, ever, as it passed the detail test. Of all the stories Ive seen on here, Titor's was probably the second best, and it wasn't even remotely believable.

To those complaining about the complexity of the information...go learn, so you can understand, rather than being angry at the author for being more knowledgeable than you about the subject. Nothing he talks about is really that difficult to learn.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
I am not saying I accept Astro's story as fact but at least I took the time to read the whole thing before throwing around some baseless opinion. Shame on members in the original thread, shame on members in this thread.

I can see why the mods closed it but I would like the original thread reopened and Astro notified so we can maybe have a discussion about it.

All those in favour say aye!


AAAAAAAYYYYE!!
I won't get into the negative posts... I don't have anything nice to say so I won't say anything at all. Well, not much anyway... it does strike me that a pretty large proportion of the members on here are male and in their late teens/early 20's, with the aggression and arrogance that often goes with that. ATS has a wicked 'ignore' button tho, which I can see myself getting quite handy with as I use the site more often.

As for Astro... he's obviously got an interesting story to tell and he tells it very well. He doesn't strike me as a liar, the story's too detailed and his motives seem pretty genuine to me. I don't see any suggestion he's finacially motived - a lot of the posters here seem to think that him being a good writer automatically means he wants to sell a book, which is quite a logical leap imo.

The existence of the communications tech he discusses seems feasible but I only have a (maybe slightly above) laymans understanding of quantum physics... I don't know enough about the mechanics of actually doing it.

I've got a pretty solid foundation in comp sci (I was particularly into networking and comms) and his story stands up on that front, bar the MAC address issue which could be a simple mistake on his part - it's certainly not enough to label the whole story a hoax.

Slightly worringly, it seems that anyone involved in the rover programme could figure out who he and his friend are tho. Based on his story and access to HR records it surely wouldn't be that hard, although I imagine (and hope for his sake - assuming he's telling the truth and his conclusions about the tech are accurate) there's a fair bit of creative license taken with the personal details and timings. TPTB aren't likely to be pleased with him.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by eightfold
 


TPTB couldn't give a rip, as long as he really has no data. Stories are heard and laughed at (see the way he was treated here). It is proof people want, and proof that will get you killed.

With just a story, all he has is a way to get laughed at and shouted down. TPTB are fine with that.

That is what i was saying....some people are not looking to prove anything. Just knowing is enough. I don't need his proof. The proof i need, for my own personal self, has come through corroborating stories from other people over the years.

I have been studying this type of stuff since i was in 5th grade, back in the mid 80's. I have come across tons and tons of things. Sometimes it disappears because it wasn't meant to be released. Sometimes, you just get to talk to people who have been on the inside. The latter group is particularly intriguing to me. They are the ones who have blown my mind.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by PhotonEffect
 


Excellent detective work... and one of the most captivating reads I've had in a long time. Truly.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 08:38 PM
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Took reading 2/3 of the story to get to the juicy claim:


Why would someone be trying to effectively remove data from these images? We stared at the related thumbnails for quite some time without seeing anything absolutely unusual; one did have a mildly interesting rock that was obliterated by the artificially induced blackness, and another had a region of disrupted soil that seemed interesting. Nothing, though, that appeared to us to be of particular scientific importance. But, the thumbnails showed so much less detail than the originals that we began to feel that perhaps you would need to have known what you were looking for in order to have found anything in them. Rich made a comment at the time that stuck with me, “If you or I found an igneous rock in a field of sedimentary rocks, we’d think nothing of it except to think, that rock looks mildly more interesting than the others. But a geologist seeing that exact same scene would be able to read into it the unusual and perhaps unlikely history of that place.”


I suspected this would be the claim as soon as the instant quantum teleportation of data was suggested earlier in the story.

I suppose I'll read the rest because it's an interesting story, but I'm remaining sceptical that DoD secretly deletes parts of images using technology not freely available, before the NASA Spirit rover team get their hands on the images.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by john124]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by john124

I suppose I'll read the rest because it's an interesting story, but I'm remaining sceptical that NASA secretly deletes parts of images using technology not freely available, before the Spirit rover team get their hands on the images.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by john124]


i know it may not mean much, but i can guarantee you that this very thing happens. Now, whether or not Astroengineers story is true is another thing completely.

The name "ISIS" is assigned to either the software that does it (which is what i believe) or the program that does it.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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Does anyone here really believe you could have an important job in NASA and then post about it here and not be in deep brown stuff?

You can be located by IP even when using proxy servers, if you are important enough to bother with. And if NASA was actually using quantum communication to censor images coming in from Mars, they would certainly not be allowing someone to keep posting about it. Rather than rely on it being unbelievable, they would be making sure this person could never post. (or blog,) again.

Any NASA engineer would have the brains to know how traceable anything on the net is, and his story would make it obvious to his co-workers and superiors at NASA just who he was.

So, logically, this guy cannot be from NASA, and therefore can't have any information for us.

Every 6 months or so there is a new poster here with this degree of writing prowess, writing elaborate fiction while pretending to be someone special. I suspect it's the one author behind all these type of threads, a vampiric writer sustaining himself on our combined credulity.


Re quantum communication, it is the communication of twinned electrons. They are twinned because they are created together, twinned electrons cannot be created at a distance. One of the pair can be transported to any distance and then be used to communicate with the other instantaneously, but communicating a single bit destroys the entanglement. So a great many would have to be created initially to communicate anything meaningful.

I could believe this has been done, with quantum communication being tested in a Mars vehicle, but the volume of data communicated would be very limited. As pictures are the most data heavy form of communication, it's out of the question that quantum communication would be used at this stage to transmit images.

Besides, all this speculation about TPTB hiding any information about life on Mars has never answered one question. Why would they bother?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Besides, all this speculation about TPTB hiding any information about life on Mars has never answered one question. Why would they bother?






Question,

Why should anyone bother to tell you about life on Mars - Why do you think you would be told of such a thing?

You aren't cleared to know.

You cannot influence NASA.

And You're gonna pay those taxes anyways and fund their operation regardless of what is found - so why even tell you?




posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by PhotonEffect
 


Can't say I rightly understand all of the computer talk, but the thought of communication at ftl!!! Wow. If we can really do that, god only knows what people are doing behind the scenes.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 
"Every 6 months or so there is a new poster here with this degree of writing prowess, writing elaborate fiction while pretending to be someone special. I suspect it's the one author behind all these type of threads, a vampiric writer sustaining himself on our combined credulity."
 

I started reading another thread a couple of minutes ago and had to come back to this one because the writing seemed so familiar. Check it out: It's called: "Hands up fi you're a little confused".
www.abovetopsecret.com...
This poster goes on and on about how weird his life has been says he'll be back in a minute to write more and readers leave the same remarks such as, "oh hurry back can't wait for more ect. ect.
Do you think it could be the same guy?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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If his purpose is to sell a book, he gave it away for free already.

FTL comm would not be that big of deal if you subscribe to the gov. having technology generations more advanced than commercial technology out now.

If I got caught (they did) I would make sure that I got my story out there before I had an "accident" or disappeared. I think he let enough info out so that the people he worked with could ID him without having to come out publicly. I would have made a hard copy and hid it good just in case I needed something to bargain with though. Then again, deleting the data might have kept him alive.

My guess is once the men in black had a clone of the hard drives they knew exactly what the OP knew. Getting your computers stolen is a better warning than having them turn up with kiddie porn or something else that may label you a terrorist.

What is on Mars that can accidentally get in range of the rovers? Mars cows? Rubble from a past civilization? Navy space planes taking off and landing in Martian sky.

Here's a far left idea... What if the mars rovers were still on earth? You have the fake FTL going on and the OP story to keep the sound stage props from showing up. Route the real signals around the deep space network a bit or bounce off a couple satellites to add the delay you would get being as far away as Mars. If you can believe the moon landing was faked you can see my tangent...

Why hide the possibility of life on Mars. It would seem that it would ignite the publics imagination and help with the NASA budget. Hell they could retool the military industrial complex into a space industrial complex and still keep in power.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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Guess it's ATS's loss, not his.

He said he would come up with the goods, and he has, seems some people around here think OP's have nothing else to do with their life than ATS.
I know some guys who reply to threads like 2 or 3 weeks apart.
All you grindcore ATS people out there, GIVE THE BLOKE A BREAK!

I myself was glued to he thread, and I know alot of people here cannot follow up on their promises.

This guy did come through in the end.
You can either take it with a slap on the face or leave it.


[edit on 8-4-2010 by crackerjack]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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Thanks for the heads up. I'd imagine they will reopen that thread if asked. Perhaps they sent him questions we are unaware of and he never replied. We have no way to know.

One alarm bell does go off. This person skills as an author are way beyond what I'd expect from a person holding the position he claimed. I'm not sure yet we are not being used as a test audience by a writer of fiction. Who knows?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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a conspiracy is some thing that can NOT be proven. if you have evidence it is no longer a conspiracy. yes?



posted on Apr, 9 2010 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by kenton1234
reply to post by Kailassa
 
"Every 6 months or so there is a new poster here with this degree of writing prowess, writing elaborate fiction while pretending to be someone special. I suspect it's the one author behind all these type of threads, a vampiric writer sustaining himself on our combined credulity."
 

I started reading another thread a couple of minutes ago and had to come back to this one because the writing seemed so familiar. Check it out: It's called: "Hands up fi you're a little confused".
www.abovetopsecret.com...
This poster goes on and on about how weird his life has been says he'll be back in a minute to write more and readers leave the same remarks such as, "oh hurry back can't wait for more ect. ect.
Do you think it could be the same guy?


Good find, I'm sure it has to be.

Just the same well written but boring wordiness, giving a teaser, then breaking to let curious readers gather before imparting another overly verbose titbit.



posted on Apr, 9 2010 @ 12:34 AM
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Interesting. I posted a comment on his blog raising doubts of his story due to several glaring inconsistencies and my comment has magically vanished. So he can dole it out about the DoD censoring images from Mars but when it comes to comments that question the credibility of his story it seems he can't take it and applies the same shady DoD censure procedures to his site.


Sort of screams hoax to me.



posted on Apr, 9 2010 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


are all those martian rocks?


well, it looks like zorro's been there


those others could very well have been goa'uld or tokrah



posted on Apr, 9 2010 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by reject
reply to post by Exuberant1
 


are all those martian rocks?



Yup.

All except for the ones obviously from photos on earth that I used for comparison.



Here is another one for you:





[edit on 9-4-2010 by Exuberant1]



posted on Apr, 9 2010 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by buddha
a conspiracy is some thing that can NOT be proven. if you have evidence it is no longer a conspiracy. yes?


That's also my understanding of a conspiracy.

ATS used to be somewhere I came for initial information and then I could go and research it further and draw my own conclusions.

Sometimes someone writes an OP and its totally knocked apart almost immediately. Now if those knocking the OP apart actually put reasons why the information isn't true/real/probable then I also research their points and again, draw my own conclusions. More and more often no reasons are given by the person trying to debunk the information - just no, didn't happen, can't happen, won't happen, bla, bla - with no reasoning behind the opinion.

I have to say that if I was privy to information I would hesitate to post it here. I'd like to think I would have the courage to post it but if I had no proof to offer up then I probably wouldn't bother because no-one would believe me anyway so what would be the point. On the other hand, if it was important enough then I probably would post it and then leave - I wouldn't want to get into an argument about it so wouldn't bother to hang around for that. I'd just put the word out and hope there are enough people here that would do their own further investigation/research. Not everyone has verifiable proof available but it doesn't automatically mean they're not telling the truth.

I hadn't read Astroengineers original thread but now my attention has been drawn to it because it's been closed. I'm going to go and read his blog immediately. Red rag to a bull when someone tells me I can't do something or have information about something - I immediately want to know why!


So, my post here isn't about his information, it's about why some things are censored (thread closed). Why not just move it to somewhere appropriate and allow us to consider all view points, research the information further and draw our own conclusions? How can we deny ignorance when someone else is making up our minds for us? If there are people here that read and believe everything they hear then that's their look out but surely most of us are adult enough to be left to make up our own minds. I just don't see that jumping all over someone and demanding proof is the way forwards and to get others to post information they have on ATS - we could be missing a lot of very valuable, interesting information simply because they won't post here for fear of ridicule if they don't hold the golden ticket of proof.

If the mods are privy to further information that justifies closing the thread - like finding someone is definitely not who they say they are then why not say so when they close a thread? I know mods are needed to keep things running smoothly here but I just don't agree they should close threads because they don't believe something to be true. Let us, the reader, decide for ourselves please.

Now I'm going to read Astroengineers blog and original thread. I may come to the conclusion it's entirely rubbish but I prefer that I am allowed to come to that conclusion and not be told what to think by others.

I will still come to ATS to read subjects that interest me but its sad to see censorship here. I will still comment on threads too but more and more often I find myself typing a comment and then deleting and not bothering. So many seem to want everything black and white with no shades of grey allowed anymore. Sad really because even everyday life is never usually just black or white and definitely not where conspiracies are concerned.




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