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Carbon Dioxide May Explain 'Near Death Experiences'

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posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 10:17 PM
link   
www.sciencedaily.com...


Quote from source:
Near death experiences (NDEs), reported to include sensations such as life flashing before the eyes, feelings of peace and joy, and apparent encounters with mystical entities, may be caused by raised levels of carbon dioxide in the blood. Researchers writing in BioMed Central's open access journal Critical Care investigated the unexplained events in 52 cardiac arrest patients.

Zalika Klemenc-Ketis worked with a team of researchers from the University of Maribor, Slovenia, to examine patients who reported NDEs. She said, "Several theories explaining the mechanisms of NDEs exist. We found that in those patients who experienced the phenomenon, blood carbon dioxide levels were significantly higher than in those who did not."

Of the 52 patients, 11 reported NDEs. Their occurrence did not correlate with patients' sex, age, level of education, religious belief, fear of death, time to recovery or drugs given during resuscitation. They were more common in people who had previously experienced NDEs. According to Klemenc-Ketis, "Our study adds new and important information to the field of NDE phenomena. The association with carbon dioxide has never been reported before, and deserves further study."


I had to share this because NDE's are an interesting subject to talk about.

An elevated level for CO2? That's kind of strange that it could have an influence over and NDE. I also thought that our brains releasing certain chemicals did as well...ahh I'll try to find that information.


Just wanted to get thoughts on this subject.

Pred...




posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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Thats an interesting theory, i saw a show where they used a helmet that emitted intense magnetic fields and it made people have NDE sensations while they where relaxing in a chair with the helmet on.

It was pretty cool but i dont think id want that thing on my head...



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by predator0187
 


I agree, interesting topic

Wonder how scientists will explain how someone who experienced NDE saw her aunt amongst those 'at the end of the tunnel of light'

The woman revived. Friends and family visited her. She told them about her near-death experience and said she'd seen several deceased family members (at which point, the scientists will probably nod sagely and say, 'Yes, there's that carbon-dioxide effect')

As the women listed those she'd seen during her NDE, she included an aunt, by name

Friends and family were a bit astonished. Because the aunt had died during the time the patient had been in hospital. They hadn't wanted to tell the patient about the death. And now the patient -- despite having no knowledge of the aunt's death -- was including the aunt amongst those seen and spoken with during the NDE

Wonder how carbon-dioxide does that ?



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 10:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by predator0187
www.sciencedaily.com...


Quote from source:
Near death experiences (NDEs), reported to include sensations such as life flashing before the eyes, feelings of peace and joy, and apparent encounters with mystical entities,




I think their summation is hogwash. I experienced an NDE; according to their machinery I was dead. None of the things listed above happened during that time. I did not "see my life flashing before my eyes".

This article is pretensious, as far as I am concerned. I can only speak for myself, but I don't know where these "scientists" are coming up with this criteria. Perhaps their experiments were done by dropping the CO2 levels in their subjects, but the "results" of the experiment are not the same as a true NDE.

I did not experience "feelings of peace and joy"; as a matter of fact what I did experience was confusion at not understanding why people could not hear me responding to them. I could hear them and see them...but my view of them was from above my body. I could hear the nurses speaking but I could not see them. Another time, I could see the people gathered in my room but could not hear them. It was a very disconnected experience.

One minute I was there in the room; the next minute I was floating in space. It was not a tunnel. It was dark, open space. It was very quiet at that point.


I did not have a "mystical encounter" with any entities.

You can't give someone nitrous oxide and then compare their experiences with someone having had an NDE. And likewise, it seems they dropped the CO2 and then tried to say it equates an NDE. I say the research on this article is very flawed; the methodology does not produce the same effects and they are trying to "make it fit".



[edit on 7-4-2010 by Alethea]

[edit on 7-4-2010 by Alethea]



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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I had an NDE after being shot in the face at point blank range. I had my life flash before my eyes as well, just before the NDE. THis happened literally seconds after being shot, and I can't imagine the Co2 levels in my blood raising that fast. Maybe Im wrong, but I don't believe that one relates to the other.

I am willing to accept that these experiences may be the result of naturally occurring defenses to extreme trauma and life threatening circumstances, and are not proof of an afterlife or anything spiritual.

I'm on the fence in regards to the topic, and the article in the OP does nothing to make me get down off the fence on one side or the other being someone who has experienced it first hand. Thanks for posting though, and I look forward to the ensuing discussion. S&F



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by Dock9
 


Well did the patient know that her aunt was in the hospital? I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to say that she probably imagined it. Either way, I wouldn't call it evidence of the afterlife.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by cripmeister
 



No-one's interested in persuading anyone, one way or the other. In fact, it's to be suspected most will dispute whatever fails to conform with or confirm their existing beliefs

But no, in the account in question, the aunt had died suddenly. Yet was seen by the near-death experiencer along with other of the experiencer's deceased family members, friends, etc.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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What people always fail to realize is that it could be that chemicals are documenting the effect or rather a consequence and that they allow us to see into the other realms. It does not mean that there is no such thing as the soul or spirit. It might be chemical reactions are doorways for the consciousness. But people always say..."oh so its just chemicals that means nothing supernatural happened." thats very closeminded to say. Because we don' t know how worlds collide in NDM.The brain maybe just like radio or receiver. It does not negate the spiritual, it just registers it as chemicals. I think these vision could take place without a brain...its just that the brain is like a magnet and can store this memory.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by predator0187
 


It is quite amazing what they will blame CO2 on these days, I wonder if this is an new angle to charge us a carbon tax when we die?



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by predator0187
www.sciencedaily.com...


Quote from source:
Near death experiences (NDEs), reported to include sensations such as life flashing before the eyes, feelings of peace and joy, and apparent encounters with mystical entities,




I think their summation is hogwash. I experienced an NDE; according to their machinery I was dead. None of the things listed above happened during that time. I did not "see my life flashing before my eyes".

This article is pretensious, as far as I am concerned. I can only speak for myself, but I don't know where these "scientists" are coming up with this criteria. Perhaps their experiments were done by dropping the CO2 levels in their subjects, but the "results" of the experiment are not the same as a true NDE.

I did not experience "feelings of peace and joy"; as a matter of fact what I did experience was confusion at not understanding why people could not hear me responding to them. I could hear them and see them...but my view of them was from above my body. I could hear the nurses speaking but I could not see them. Another time, I could see the people gathered in my room but could not hear them. It was a very disconnected experience.

One minute I was there in the room; the next minute I was floating in space. It was not a tunnel. It was dark, open space. It was very quiet at that point.


I did not have a "mystical encounter" with any entities.

You can't give someone nitrous oxide and then compare their experiences with someone having had an NDE. And likewise, it seems they dropped the CO2 and then tried to say it equates an NDE. I say the research on this article is very flawed; the methodology does not produce the same effects and they are trying to "make it fit".



[edit on 7-4-2010 by Alethea]

[edit on 7-4-2010 by Alethea]


In my case, as I mentioned, I did experience my life flashing before my eyes. It was incredible and I remember it clearly although it has been over 10 years since it happened. It was like having _millions_ of still images of important things and people in my life flashing so fast that you wouldn't believe that your brain could compute what it was seeing....but it did.

I was legally dead two different occasions that night, but these things only happened after the first, directly after being shot. I remember exactly what Alethea described as floating in darkness without a body, but I had full mental capacity to understand what was going on and wonder what was happening. Where my experience varies, though, is that I did experience a feeling of overwhelming joy. I have described it best by saying, imagine the best day of your life, when you have felt the happiest and everything seems to be going your way. Imagine the highest feeling of euphoria or happiness, and then multiply that feeling a hundred times over. It was the most unbelievable feeling, and very hard to describe.

While I do not remember seeing any dead relatives, angels, or drifting into any "lights", my mom told me that when she arrived in the ER shortly after my arrival, the nurses told her that I was excitedly rambling about seeing my deceased father, and seeing a "light". My mother and step father were allowed to see me prior to going in for surgery and she said I was still excitedly talking about this. I dont remember any of that. I was 19 at the time and never paid too much attention to NDE theories or information, although I had heard of it.

I still dont know what that was or why it happened, and I wont tie any spiritual beliefs to it because I am too analytical and think to logically to allow myself. But it was something I will never forget, thats for sure.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 11:44 PM
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During my "NDE", after being sent back by god, I found myself existing as a free spirit in the dentist's surgery. I was wherever I wanted to be, and watched inside my mouth, interested in how the dentist was doing the root fillings.

Then the dentist noticed I was not breathing, and panicked. I was calmly interested watching him scream at the nurse, blaming her for leaving the laughing gas turned up. (He'd given two general anaesthetics as the first had not worked, and he had no qualifications in anaesthesia.)

He finally decided to ring an ambulance, but he was still having trouble processing the idea that he'd actually killed a patient, so he just looked up the casualty number of the closest hospital and wrote it large on his blotter.
(This was 1976.)

He ran back to my body to try once more to bring it back to life, and this time he shouted my name in a commanding way, and I was reluctantly drawn in.

On coming to, being a bit of a stirrer, I asked him how the procedure had gone, and when he lied, pretending all had gone normally, I asked the nurse how she coped with being accused of murdering the patient every time they did a root filling. They both went really white. The dentist was sweating, his hair and tie askew, so I suggested he clean up while we discuss what had really happened. He still wouldn't believe me, saying I had not been breathing, it was impossible I could have known anything. You had to feel sorry for him, he was really distraught, and didn't know what to say. So I told him the number he'd written on his blotter, (which could not be seen from the dentist chair,) and he sat down, starting to sob.

That dentist is still practising, but he now has a bunch of letters after is name, including a doctorate in anaesthesiology.



Perhaps these clever scientists can explain how carbon dioxide enabled me to read a number my bodily eyes could not see.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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I, personally, have never had an NDE, so I have no idea what could be the cause of it.

I think that maybe it would be the brain. When we die, our brains survive for 12 minutes and release the same chemicals that are released when we sleep, hence dreams. We would have 12 minutes of dreams before our brains dies. That to me could explain a NDE, especially if you thought you were dying.

They say if you think about what you want to dream about before going to bed it works 50% of the time. Now, I think if someone thought they were dying they are going to see what they think is going to happen when they die. Our brains are very powerful and there is a reason they use 20% of the resources of our body.

I think dreams explain a NDE more than anything else.

Pred...



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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Some sources will lay the blame of NDEs to powerful psychedelic drugs in the brain that are released during: birth, traumatic experiences, dreams and.... death.

'___': The spirit molecule by (i forget the author but probably) rick straussman

dimethyl tryptamine is one of the most powerful psychedelics known to manking and startlingly little amounts of research have been done on it.

EDIT TO ADD: 'dreams' to the list of situations in which dmt is released.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by LususNaturae]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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coasttocoastam.com... right now Dr. Jeffrey Long responds to the new carbon dioxide claim for NDEs



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


Awesome NDE experience!!!



posted on Apr, 9 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by LususNaturae
 


I agree with the whole '___' thing as well. I have actually heard the crazy stuff that happens on that drug. I know it what is responsible for our dreams, so in the fact that you are think you are dying you would have some horrible things going through your head, and then this drug is released.

Scary, but interesting. I think '___' is responsible for all NDE's and probably lots of aliens abductions, but hey, that;s just my thought.


Pred...



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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I agree with most of the people on this thread, on how that scientists can pin NDE on carbon dioxide. There are too many factors with an NDE, and pinning it on carbon dioxide, just seems like a scientists attempt to try to debunk an NDE theory. S&F



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by Kailassa
During my "NDE", after being sent back by god, I found myself existing as a free spirit in the dentist's surgery. I was wherever I wanted to be, and watched inside my mouth, interested in how the dentist was doing the root fillings.

Then the dentist noticed I was not breathing, and panicked. I was calmly interested watching him scream at the nurse, blaming her for leaving the laughing gas turned up. (He'd given two general anaesthetics as the first had not worked, and he had no qualifications in anaesthesia.)

He finally decided to ring an ambulance, but he was still having trouble processing the idea that he'd actually killed a patient, so he just looked up the casualty number of the closest hospital and wrote it large on his blotter.
(This was 1976.)

He ran back to my body to try once more to bring it back to life, and this time he shouted my name in a commanding way, and I was reluctantly drawn in.

On coming to, being a bit of a stirrer, I asked him how the procedure had gone, and when he lied, pretending all had gone normally, I asked the nurse how she coped with being accused of murdering the patient every time they did a root filling. They both went really white. The dentist was sweating, his hair and tie askew, so I suggested he clean up while we discuss what had really happened. He still wouldn't believe me, saying I had not been breathing, it was impossible I could have known anything. You had to feel sorry for him, he was really distraught, and didn't know what to say. So I told him the number he'd written on his blotter, (which could not be seen from the dentist chair,) and he sat down, starting to sob.

That dentist is still practising, but he now has a bunch of letters after is name, including a doctorate in anaesthesiology.



Perhaps these clever scientists can explain how carbon dioxide enabled me to read a number my bodily eyes could not see.



That's okay. Most skeptics of today will either say that you are not telling the truth or that you were hallucinating. I guarantee some will even go as far as to say that the dentist and his assistant were actors playing a trick on you. As long as it fits their schema for that day, don't worry, they won't laugh or get angry at you.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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Ok if was a hallucination, how come people are not seeing other things, like unicorns, or every day stuff we see in dreams. It is always dead relatives, etc and relates to life after death.

I did acid in my day and had some cool dreams when sleeping, and none of them involved dead relatives or a place from beyond.

NDE's always do. So there IS a difference.



posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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I have no clue about NDE, but i would venture a thought about blood gas levels if anybody cares,

I think ringing in the ears happens when one has low blood gas levels.
The water is dense & unbroken up it kind of hangs together in big blocks of molecules [quasi-super molecules? quasi-crystal?].

Blood gas breaks up water's tendency to resonate.

Probably would include CO2, O2, N2 & other potential blood gases.



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