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Why is Lucifer the bad one?

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posted on Apr, 11 2010 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


I got some tapes called the Bible and the Bermuda Triangle that explains the whole thing about God and Lucifer.

Here's my opinion. God wanted fellowship with His creation but He had to give them free will to choose Him or not. He didn't want robots. Sin comes with freewill and the creation chooses to follow God or not.




posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 08:01 AM
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I don't think Lucifer is the bad one either - he just went against Yahweh's itinerary, and since Yahweh put himself up on such a pedestal and is so "perfect and righteous", anything NOT with his plan (including Lucifer, of course), is evil.

Christians are taught to believe that Yahweh is the good guy. I still don't understand that one.

The biblical god always wanted blood sacrifices. He killed many in the OT.

I have yet to see a passage where Lucifer actually kills people.

All that is said is that he is "sneaky" and leads people into sin. A perfect way to scapegoat this guy.

Sin - according to Yahweh and Christians.

Is free thinking considered a sin too?

If having a mind of your own is evil, then I don't want to be a saint!!!

[edit on 4/14/2010 by impaired]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 08:10 AM
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And it sounds like just two sides to me: Yahweh and his group, and Lucifer and his group.

I believe they were all ET's, and Jehova is made out to be the creator of the universe, which I believe is utter BS.

There were many other gods out there. These guys are no different.

So imo, Jehova (notice I don't call him God) was no angel either (no pun intended).



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by UfoSpecial
If you saw him then you would know for sure why he is the bad one. He is extremely hideous with an ego and an attitude to match, and he hates humans more than anything else in existance, and lives only to see your personal destruction. Even dev worshipers are hated by the one they think are serving.
Some people like myself have been witness to such things in real life visions and it was not something I want to repeat. Do not ever have any sympathy for him, that would be very stupid.


Wait - LUCIFER is the one with the ego?? Hello??? Have you even read the bible?
Jehova is the worst! Prove me wrong!!! :bash:



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by impaired

Originally posted by UfoSpecial
If you saw him then you would know for sure why he is the bad one. He is extremely hideous with an ego and an attitude to match, and he hates humans more than anything else in existance, and lives only to see your personal destruction. Even dev worshipers are hated by the one they think are serving.
Some people like myself have been witness to such things in real life visions and it was not something I want to repeat. Do not ever have any sympathy for him, that would be very stupid.


Wait - LUCIFER is the one with the ego?? Hello??? Have you even read the bible?
Jehova is the worst! Prove me wrong!!! :bash:


See this site to see how bad satan is (used to Lucifer):
hbcdelivers.s439.sureserver.com...
This book is true and scientific and I've authenticated the authenticity of it twice.



posted on Apr, 25 2011 @ 02:42 AM
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Ok... I'm bumping this thread because I need to ask questions and certainly didn't want to start yet another lucifer thread. I was just a told a funny story about Lucifer. i don't want to go very far into it now because someone likes to tell me some fiction and sometimes i can't tell if they are being serious or not. It had me laughing pretty hard though at the thought it might be true.

ANYWAY... i want any people well versed in the bible to get the hell in here and tell me some biblical FACTS. I want to skip the new Luciferian trend stuff and go back to the bible and look for strange things and irony.

first of all. how many times was lucifer mentioned in the bible? i am going to be looking for this answer as well.

secondly, who was lucifer? now don't tell me any stories without direct biblical quotes. don't embellish please.

does it ever say that lucifer and satan are one in the same...how about the devil? does it ever really say that?

thirdly... what is the connection between lucifer and jesus? I know jesus had an encounter but was that lucifer, the devil or satan.... specifically by name.

Help me out yous guys who know yer bible stuff. this is tripping me out pretty heavy.



posted on Apr, 25 2011 @ 03:14 AM
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WHAT?...One time? Lucifer is called by name in the bible ONE TIME?

I'm missing something. Where do people get this huge story that is supposed to be biblical about Lucifer?... about Lucifer being vain and falling from heaven and all that? It mentions Lucifer once in Isaiah. it refers to Lucifer as son of the morning star. what is this morning star stuff?... because it is also mentioned in revelations, which could be connected but could be connected only by the term morning star and nothing else... or perhaps it infers the right hand of god because in revelations it is referring to Jesus.

I'm usually not this confused by the bible but apparently people have severely embellished something. where are they getting all this Lucifer stuff? sources please?



posted on Apr, 25 2011 @ 03:19 AM
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What's also tripping me out is that God sent Jesus to earth.

From the heaven view point, isn't that kinda... like... down?

This is getting weird.
... I mean, I have heard parts of this before in the new trends and whatnot, like on this site but I'm wondering about all this talk of Lucifer in biblical history. Where does the traditional story come from about the fallen Lucifer?



posted on Apr, 25 2011 @ 03:26 AM
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Reading it from the bible is not as funny as the story was.

Unfortunately.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 04:04 AM
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Originally posted by UfoSpecial
If you saw him then you would know for sure why he is the bad one. He is extremely hideous with an ego and an attitude to match, and he hates humans more than anything else in existance, and lives only to see your personal destruction. Even dev worshipers are hated by the one they think are serving.
Some people like myself have been witness to such things in real life visions and it was not something I want to repeat. Do not ever have any sympathy for him, that would be very stupid.



"He is extremely hideous" No he is actually extremely beautiful, but i guess you wouldn't know that.
"He hates humans more then anything else". Then why would he want us to have knowledge?
" Some people like myself have been witness to such things in real life visions". Personally i think you are delusional, "that would be very stupid", actually i think you are very stupid.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 04:37 AM
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Read the book 'The Christ Conspiracy- The Greatest Story Ever Sold', its a very insightful read, but the author is deluded in some places.

Lucifer has never been the bad guy, dont listen to any of these brainwashed xians they will just fill your mind with BS.
edit on 10/7/2011 by NZkraw because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 07:00 PM
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THE LORD IS THE WAY & THE LIGHT!
edit on 1842016 by iPadCary because: Typo.



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: gwydionblack

Lucifer is a non existent (within biblical Christianity) myth that comes from an incorrect interpretation of Isaiah 14:12

He never existed, never will, and any discussion about him is a waste of time.

Judaism never had a Lucifer who rebelled and is called Satan. Some early oral traditions reinterpreted scripture to make Judaism more like the Persian religion of their liberators. But that is not Judaism.

Christianity has pushed this myth for so long that now that we know the facts that he isn't a biblical character and Ezekiel and Isaiah were talking to human kings not angels, they don't want to discuss it out of embarrassment. But they do know.

So your fascination with Lucifer is about as relevant to Christianity as Harry Potter.

You should really learn these things if you want to be knowledgeable. Lucifer talk is for people who DON'T know about the true meaning of the Isaiah passage because they aren't interested in really knowing the truth and are happy when deceived with old, proven erroneous fantasy (even within religion) characters that are based off of false reading of scripture.

Join the world of people who are aware of biblical lies.



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 08:06 PM
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Ok something is bothering me here. Nobody is aware of the false interpretations that led to the Lucifer myth?

Isn't this the conspiracy crowd who is supposed to know these things?

I mean, Day star, son of Dawn (Helel ben Shachar) means "Shining one! Son of Shachar"

Shachar just means the planet Venus in the morning. It's referencing a myth from Canaan about the planet Venus. Shachar was a "god " based off the planet Venus in the morning. Not a believed in god, a mythical one.

Shining one is a sarcastic remark Isaiah is making to the King. Like when someone says "genius" when you do something dumb.

Like believe in a mythical (even in Christianity) being that was born out of misinterpretation of Isaiah when all the people who care about the truth know it is an embarrassment to Christianity to have believed in a Pharasaic mystical interpretation of Isaiah without knowing it while hating on the Pharisees for 2000 years all the while believing in a Pharisee reinterpretation of Isaiah to help support their new Israelite version of Ahriman called Belial or Satan or just the evil one.

When the bible makes it clear Yahweh is the source of evil and Ha Satan is his emissary. Pretty off the mark for any SERIOUS bible student.

Let Lucifer go the way of Chronos and Zeus and stop trying to make him exist. Learn the facts about the topic you are discussing so you aren't being an uninformed, uneducated believer in a myth that all scholars know is based off of a misinterpretation and the non translation of the word lucifer which turned it into a name and made a myth of a rebel angel that is now only believed officially by Islam.

I'm flabbergasted that you guys are having SERIOUS discussion about Lucifer like he is a real angel in the bible.

Why are you guys so uninformed about this? Don't you guys like the truth and EXPOSING lies?

So why are you perpetuating a myth that has been LONG disspelled and erroneous?

And you are actually living your lives with a belief that is not even in the bible, talking about it, asking questions like "why is Lucifer the bad guy."

Last time. In Judaism and Christianity, LUCIFER DOESN'T EXIST, ISN'T IN THE BIBLE AND THIS IS A REAL FACT, not my opinion.

Google: Lucifer misinterpretation and do some damn research.



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 11:19 PM
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What if God was the Devil in antediluvian times and he won the war. Threw the real God out and started calling the real God a liar and murderer.

Like a previous poster said, the winner writes history.

So we could have the Devil in the pearly palace and God exiled to walk the earth.

And although Padawan (ElementalFreeze) makes a point in that there is no such person/thing as Lucifer, Padawan needs to learn manners.

---

a reply to: Padawan ElementalFreeze
Are you always angry and condescending to other people Padawan?

Ive never come across a poster with such impertinence!

Padawan come back to the Light for the Darkside will swallow you whole youngling.

Coomba98



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: coomba98

Are you under the impression that it is somehow a cool guy because you call someone a padawan? That it is something you do shows how much of a tool you are.

And while I may be an abrasive sob at least I don't present myself as a voice of reason like you who stalks certain members harrassing them every time they make a post with childish insults.

And at least I am not obsessed with people who are more intelligent than me like you are. Anybody who is more learned than you and wishes to share a truth that you are not aware of gets a message from you that is pretty much a display of your jealousy.

I read your little God or devil theory that is as old as dirt and not the least bit original or thought provoking. Everyone has had the same thought. You are just the one who thinks it is profound and thinks it makes you look intelligent.

I don't know if you are a child or just an immature ]ouche gab but when you make it so obvious how much you want to be like me by stalking me and calling me padawan (whatever that is) your just embarrassing yourself without realizing it.

Nobody who is willing to show his obvious obsession by agreeing with me when you know I'm right with added insult attempt because it burns you that you can't argue with me is anybody who I respect. And people I don't respect can't really insult me because I have thick skin to begin with but idiots make me laugh, not cry.

When you can come on the internet without developing a knowledge crush on a person like me and doing the playground tease of a school girl who likes a boy then maybe I will take you seriously.

Until then I am going to call you: Summers eve.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 12:06 AM
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originally posted by: coomba98
What if God was the Devil in antediluvian times and he won the war. Threw the real God out and started calling the real God a liar and murderer.

Like a previous poster said, the winner writes history.

So we could have the Devil in the pearly palace and God exiled to walk the earth.

And although Padawan (ElementalFreeze) makes a point in that there is no such person/thing as Lucifer, Padawan needs to learn manners.

---

a reply to: Padawan ElementalFreeze
Are you always angry and condescending to other people Padawan?

Ive never come across a poster with such impertinence!

Padawan come back to the Light for the Darkside will swallow you whole youngling.

Coomba98





Summers eve makes a great point. This thread IS after all about me, right?

I mean, everything you said about me is spot on. I'm angry, (sometimes) condescending, (condescension has a purpose) and I am totally from the darkside. I am pure evil because I like to expose the righteous lies that are told for the sake of religion and believed by people who have been lied to all their life.

And summers eve makes another great point. What if God is the devil?

God is God and if your god is Yahweh then you worship the god of good and evil. Yahweh takes credit for evil many times in the OT so he has a point.

Yahweh IS the devil. He is the master of the Satan, who never rebelled as he doesn't have the power. He is not able to go against Yahweh.

Everything Satan does is Yahweh approved.

So Summers eve/coomba makes a good point.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: Padawan ElementalFreeze


By Padawan:
Are you under the impression that it is somehow a cool guy because you call someone a padawan? That it is something you do shows how much of a tool you are.


Yes I am a tool unlike you Padawan, as tools are good for something and has a purpose. Thank you for that clarification Padawan.


By Padawan:
And while I may be an abrasive sob


At least you know what type of a person you are. Tell me, is your behaviour something Yeshua would tolerate? I think not Padawan.


By Padawan:
And at least I am not obsessed with people who are more intelligent than me like you are.


Now this is confusing Padawan. Are you saying im more intelligent than you? Chances are yes but im not the type to rub in my IQ of 146, otherwise I would have earlier. But hay an IQ of 146 and I still think im a dumbarse. I guess you made this point as you don't have much confidence in your own IQ. Then again believing in the stuff you believe in a low IQ is a must I suppose.


By Padawan:

Anybody who is more learned than you and wishes to share a truth that you are not aware of gets a message from you that is pretty much a display of your jealousy.


A whole lot of people are a lot more 'learned' than me on pretty much all subjects. Never proclaimed I know everything Padawan, where did you get this idea from?

Also your 'truth' is only 'truth' to you and nobody else. Take a moment to think about that Padawan.


And what in the world would I be jealous of you for? Geez let me guess. Im jealous because im a decent person and I want to be rude and abusive just like you Padawan! Just like you!


By Padawan:
I read your little God or devil theory that is as old as dirt and not the least bit original or thought provoking. Everyone has had the same thought. You are just the one who thinks it is profound and thinks it makes you look intelligent.


Ever heard of the philosophical debate about there being no such thing as 'original thought'?.
Here let me educate you young Padawan.

www.ted.com...
forums.philosophyforums.com...

And again although my IQ is higher than average I don't think im that intelligent. You would not believe some of the stupid things I come up with or do!


By Padawan:
I don't know if you are a child or just an immature ]ouche gab but when you make it so obvious how much you want to be like me by stalking me and calling me padawan (whatever that is) your just embarrassing yourself without realizing it.


You are a funny guy Padawan. I want to be like you!! WTF is that all about! You mix all these ancient religions together to create your own religion and than abuse and ridicule others who think otherwise. Your attitude is definitely something I do not want to emulate Padawan.

And educating you in moral etiquette is not an embarrassment to me Padawan. Said embarrassment would be on you for you attitude Padawan.


By Padawan:
[1]Nobody who is willing to show his obvious obsession by agreeing with me when you know I'm right with added insult attempt [2]because it burns you that you can't argue with me is anybody who I respect. [3]And people I don't respect can't really insult me because I have thick skin to begin with but idiots make me laugh, not cry.


Ok Padawan will do this in sections:
1. Just because I think your a rude, abusive, arrogant fundamentalist, does not mean I wont agree with you on some matters. This is just stupid thinking Padawan. Plus the only person who thinks your right is you Padawan.

2. Nope no burn here, but I must say it is frustrating when someone like you is around. Cant argue with a fundamentalist hay. As fundies know it all no?

3. Given your responses Padawan, if you had thick skin you would not be replying in the way you reply. Thick skin? Only in text form on the internet but not in bodily form in reality. Thick skin, good one Padawan. Good one!


By Padawan:
When you can come on the internet without developing a knowledge crush on a person like me and doing the playground tease of a school girl who likes a boy then maybe I will take you seriously.


Is this what you call flirting? Really? Padawan come on you must know better than that? Is this how you flirt? Certainly not me Padawan.


By Padawan:
Until then I am going to call you: Summers eve.


Summers eve, I like the sound of that Padawan. Kind of like Lucifer no? The Lightbringer, for I shall bring the light back into your life Padawan.

Thank you for the name, please call me this from now on Padawan.


By Padawan:
Summers eve [aka Coomba98] makes a great point. This thread IS after all about me, right?


Damn straight I do Padawan. But the thread IS NOT about you. Talk about delusions of grandeur Padawan. Delusions of grandeur!


By Padawan:
I mean, everything you said about me is spot on. I'm angry, (sometimes) condescending, (condescension has a purpose) and I am totally from the darkside. I am pure evil because I like to expose the righteous lies that are told for the sake of religion and believed by people who have been lied to all their life.


Ohh this again, yes we know what type of a person you are. Wouldn't go so far as to say 'pure evil' but hay, you know yourself better than anyone.

Talking about the lying part, of all the many many thousands of years of humanity, how is it that you are the only one that has gotten it right? Religion wise? Never heard of people mixing their religions together and then belittling everyone who thinks differently. Like mixing Greek religion with Egyptian religion, weird Padawan weird.

How do you know your not the liar?


By Padawan:
And summers eve [aka Coomba98] makes another great point. What if God is the devil?


Damn straight Padawan, damn straight.


By Padawan:
God is God and if your god is Yahweh then you worship the god of good and evil. Yahweh takes credit for evil many times in the OT so he has a point.


I thought you believed that Yahweh was the Demiurge? Do you even understand your own belief system? Or is it so jumbled up with the many religions you confuse yourself?


Yahweh IS the devil. He is the master of the Satan, who never rebelled as he doesn't have the power. He is not able to go against Yahweh.

Everything Satan does is Yahweh approved.


Here we go, you believe Yahweh is the Devil/Demiurge, and yet you say 'Everything Satan does is Yahweh approved'?

I suppose if you really try to rationalise it, everything or pretty much everything I do is Coomba98 approved. If you want to push it that way but still, do you really know what you believe Padawan?


By Padawan:
So Summers eve/coomba makes a good point.


Thank you Padawan, thank you.







edit on 19-4-2016 by coomba98 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 04:27 AM
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By Padawan:
...the word lucifer which turned it into a name and made a myth of a rebel angel that is now only believed officially by Islam.


Heres some education for you Padawan.... Islam does not have a Lucifer.

Their 'Devil' is a Djinn prince who was called Azazel when he was in Heaven. From my understanding he was the first prince of the Djinn by the first King and Queen Djinn. The only terrestrial creation allowed in the presence of God.

When he refused to bow down to man (this is where the Christian myth of the Devil refusing to acknowledge or bow down to man comes from Padawan) Azazel was thrown to earth and was then called Iblis from then on.

So the Islam Devil is called Azazel or Iblis.

And you say people need educating Padawan. Holy smolly!

I have now educated you Padawan in the ways of the Islam Devil. Padawan

Coomba98.... Sorry

Summers eve.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 04:58 AM
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a reply to: coomba98

Iblis is the name of Lucifer in Islam, all I said was the MYTH is only official in Islam.

And it is.

Different languages like Arabic do not use latin names for characters in their religion unless speaking to a Christian who is not familiar with Iblis. Enoch is Idris in Arabic and he is still the same person.

So you tried but failed in trying to catch me slipping. Iblis/Lucifer is even a story told in the Quran. He refuses to bow to Adam and rebels.

Summer, you are a funny dude. Not Dave Chappelle funny but lady gaga funny in that you are both ridiculous but unaware




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