Colombian drug strips users' free will

reply to post by ninthaxis


Reading the comments in this story/article, it seems most don't believe it to be a viable story, although I don't know why. It is a natural plant derivative like many many drugs are.

reply to post by Kaytagg I agree that alcohol plays a large part in these reported stories. What I'm taking issue with is the idea that, even in combination, it would remove free will.
The truth is that the closest to that scenario that this drug could contribute to is confusion. What is much more likely is a stupor.
Now, sure, it would make you easy to rob for your wallet. If the perpetrator managed to get the dose just right & was a competent interrogator, they may be able to get 1 or more of your PIN numbers or passwords out of you. They wouldn't be able to get you to move far or do anything requiring much thought. I base these opinions on personal experience.
Edit to add: working from a plant source, where yields & the relative balance between the active constituents, scopolamine & atropine, would be very difficult to predict, I believe that a complicated interrogation would be almost impossible.

[edit on 9/4/10 by Bunken Drum]

Wrap up. This Crap is not cool, It's not fun, and I feel sorry for any one who is slipped this crap. Having had been under the effects on perpose, I can say that it's hoorrriiibbbllleeee. It has been tested in MK ultra style situations, but to little avail. It really wouldn't be that hard to develop a drug, or use other means, that would be much more useful then this crap. It is also a bad idea to get drunk in Columbia, because it's ridden with degenerates. Manipulating the inhibitions part of the brain alcohol attaches too, along with dopamine receptors the brain would be much more effective as a Zombie drug.

This video just comes off as DEA propaganda to me. "DRUG DEALERS ARE GIVING PEOPLE DRUGS THAT REMOVE YOUR FREE WILL!" Next you'll hear them say that it is being put in Marijuana and other drugs.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by DeathShield]

reply to post by DeathShield You might be on to something there. I went back to the OP article & found this a bit suspicious:

"Still, he bought a gram of the drug, and when he returned to the car and began to open it"

The journalist then describes how he felt worried about being in a dangerous situation. Where is the description of what the stuff looked like? What sort of journalism is that?
The amount mentioned is problematic also. 1g of dried plant material is less than 1/3 of the amount needed to produce the full effects we've discussed in this thread. Extracted in alcohol say, & added to someone's last drink, it would make the difference between staggering off drunk & collapsing into a stupor. You'd be easy to rob, but if anyone tried to manhandle you or get you to do anything you didn't want to, you'd be as uncooperative as any drunk trying to sleep it off. Given to someone before they were well on their way to being drunk would just make them feel like they'd had enough sooner.
If it was a gram of purified alkaloid, it would be 8 times the necessary dose & certainly fatal. Sounds to me as if they may have just plucked "gram" out of thin air, because hey, drugs are sold in grams, right?

Originally posted by Kaytagg
I think the REAL story here is to NOT DRINK LOTS OF ALCOHOL, and THEN take this drug.

I DO NOT mean this to be a 'troll' reply, but, I think the real story here is don't do drugs. Period.

Ok, scopolamine can be an EXTREMELY dangerous drug. Yes, you CAN go temporarily blind from it. All those who have been stupid enough to have taken the drug and have survived with their mental health intact were very lucky not to have ingested too much. Many people have been permanently disabled by scopolamine and related chemicals.

Anticholinergic compounds are some of the most dangerous drugs in existence.


They are not a recreational drug in any sense of the word. Anyone who advocates their use is being extremely foolish.

Comments like this;

"1g of dried plant material is less than 1/3 of the amount needed to produce the full effects"

are very misleading as there is a wide variation of alkaloid content depending on species, environmental factors, geography, the part of the plant being used etc. This kind of misconception can lead to dangerous dosages.

.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by mrwiffler]

reply to post by mrwiffler

Comments like this;
"1g of dried plant material is less than 1/3 of the amount needed to produce the full effects"
are very misleading as there is a wide variation of alkaloid content depending on species, environmental factors, geography, the part of the plant being used etc. This kind of misconception can lead to dangerous dosages.

Indeed Tropane bearing plants are very dangerous, as I've previously indicated. However, the plant pictured in the OP article is Brugmansia, which is well understood. Basically, it is a large Datura, with the same constituents, in the same quantities: 0.22 - 0.4% in the leaves. Thus, even at its strongest, an average sized person will be rendered profoundly delerious following a stupor by 3.5g of dried leaf - its true that the seeds are stronger. I should have been more specific.
I agree that this stuff is far too dangerous to be considered "recreational". Its not actually fun either.
IMPORTANT
In checking this out I've realised that I miscalculated the dose of pure alkaloidal extract by a factor of 10 times. Actually 1g would be 80 times a powerful dose.
I can vouch for the survivability of a dose of 3.5g of strong dried leaf. I am 6' - 220lbs. This dose represents at most 14mg of mixed alkaloids, whereas 1g could contain up to 4mg. Worth noting that in the UK there is an over the counter medication for menstrual pain which contains 1mg of scopolamine per tablet - recommended dose = 2 tablets or half the dose being claimed here as able to "strip free will".
Now, its worth noting that the narcotic effect of the combined alkaloids is likely to exceed that of the pure scopolamine, but as I've also said, better to stick to facts because scaremongering breeds contempt.
I'd be interested to see a reference on temporary blindness.
www.botanical.com...