Va. Gov. FORCED to say slavery was cause of the Civil War

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


I kinow this isn't gonna be popular but here goes..........as far as poverty and hunger, get a job, everyone else has to. I'm not saying that only blacks are not working, but damn.....it's a visible problem. How about schooling, all kinds of programs and colleges only open to blacks, no excuse. Why is there never enough, there are all black colleges, scholarships, caucases, affirmative action, quotas and still the numbers are so bad. I think if anything between the welfare state, entitlements, and extortion from groups such as the naacp, the tables should have turned along time ago....when the deck is stacked with the race card, there is no reason except that people don't want to succeed. Slavery has happened to all peoples and yet only in America is is still bitched and whined about to this degree......if someone is held back from imagined ills from the past, they are just looking for an excuse......and there will always be an enabler around in the name of political correctness and misplaced white guilt.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by DoomsdayRex

 

I kinow this isn't gonna be popular but here goes..........as far as poverty and hunger, get a job, everyone else has to. I'm not saying that only blacks are not working, but damn.....it's a visible problem. How about schooling, all kinds of programs and colleges only open to blacks, no excuse. Why is there never enough, there are all black colleges, scholarships, caucases, affirmative action, quotas and still the numbers are so bad. I think if anything between the welfare state, entitlements, and extortion from groups such as the naacp, the tables should have turned along time ago....when the deck is stacked with the race card, there is no reason except that people don't want to succeed. Slavery has happened to all peoples and yet only in America is is still bitched and whined about to this degree......if someone is held back from imagined ills from the past, they are just looking for an excuse......and there will always be an enabler around in the name of political correctness and misplaced white guilt.

It is obvious that you have not done any research on the history of slavery. And not even to use it as an excuse, but it is a valid question...have you even studied the psychological effects of slavery? Because if you had, you wouldn't have even posted that statement. Its okay to have your own opinion about things, but if you are going criticize a person, or a race of people, you really need to do some serious research before you make accusations. Historical and sociological research is probably the area you want to focus on my friend.

Listen, we all have two feet and put our pants on the same way, and I do agree with you, we can all get a job and work. But again before you go and judge a whole race of people for what you consider "laziness", why don't you look more into the schooling system, and the jobs offered to minorities...oh and please lets not forget discrimination! It is a fact...that the curriculm in most school in inner cities cannot even come close to comparing to the ones in a more affluent area. If that is the case...then the game just isn't fair. I love a debate...but you have to have facts...

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Historymajor]

I didn't judge a whole race. I'm simply pointing out, when you have things stacked in your favor and still do so poorly, maybe, just maybe, you have a hand in it. The pyscological effects, gimme a break........who is psychologically impacted in 2010. I'll state again, throughout history peoples have been enslaved........yet only in America is it used as a crutch and excuse.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
I didn't judge a whole race. I'm simply pointing out, when you have things stacked in your favor and still do so poorly, maybe, just maybe, you have a hand in it. The pyscological effects, gimme a break........who is psychologically impacted in 2010. I'll state again, throughout history peoples have been enslaved........yet only in America is it used as a crutch and excuse.

How do African Americans have everything stacked in their favor? Because there are a few all-black colleges, or there is finanical aid and scholarships for minorities. Give me a break...are you seriously saying that there are not any people still psycologically impacted by slavery that are living today? After slavery ended in 1865, African American people were still subjected to brutality and psycological abuse. (Jim crow) And please don't forget...the Civil rights were not that long ago...there are still people living from that era...who were indeed impacted by the institution of slavery and the racist white supremacist...ahhh Emmett Till...


And again I'll state...throughout history there have been different forms of slavery...the slavery in America...was the worst of them all.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Historymajor]

Not to be off topic, but...

The sad thing about the black people of America, is that most of them have been kept on the plantation of economic slavery for over a hundred years. After getting their freedom, the whites of a lot of states, fearing a political shift, outlawed and thwarted blacks from voting. They were oppressed from owning property and exploited if they did. They were banished from establishments labeled whites only. And in the 19th century, they were set upon by the democratic party and promised the good life hand out in exchange for their vote. Government dependency programs made them slaves to the party. Families were broken up by the misery and despair. Many turned to drugs and crime to either forget how life sucked or to give it some pay back. Many young blacks began to grow up in single family households where usually the mother was the only parent. Black men would father children and simply leave them and their mothers abandoned, only to be enslaved by the system called the "economic plantation" . The democrat party continued to foster the savior image where they would promise the blacks the sun and the moon for loyalty and votes, yet they never delivered. And each time they failed they blamed that failure on the Republican party making them look like racist black hating KKK members.

Yet for all this, to this day, most blacks are die hard democrat supporting voters. Unless they finally break off the chains of oppression, they will always be taken for granted, enslaved, and kept from their full potential.

My hope is that this year will be different. That they will see how oppressed they have been by a corrupt and dishonest political party who has kept them like economic handout junkie slaves. The blacks in the democratic party care nothing for their fellow blacks. They got their piece of the white mans world so they act like the slave masters and keep their fellow blacks in economic chains.

Throw off those chains and think for yourselves. Stop enabling those users. Be your own person. Take care of your families. You have done no wrong because your black. The whites of today are not your enemies, the democrat party is your enemy. They have kept you slaves since the civil war can't you see that?

Why am I so passionate over this issue ? I am a white man. I was always taught to respect all people regardless of what color or race they are. We are all unique and wonderfully created. It just disgusts me to continue to see an entire race of fellow citizens used and abused just for their votes come election time. Anyway that's my say.

As for the civil war, it was over States rights verses an over reaching Federal government.








[edit on 10-4-2010 by Fromabove]

I know i know, it was about state's rights.

It was about state's rights to own slaves.

As for this bullcocky about slavery being abolished because of technology, if that were the case, there would be:
1) no other slaves in teh rest of the world and there are
2) we wouldnt' have near slaves which is the illegal immigrants working under the table for pennies a day doing back breaking work for 12 or more hours a day, 6 days a week.

Originally posted by nixie_nox

2) we wouldnt' have near slaves which is the illegal immigrants working under the table for pennies a day doing back breaking work for 12 or more hours a day, 6 days a week.

Last time I checked those ILLEGALS are WILLING and NOT FORCED to do a DAMN THING.....they are FAR from slaves.....who crossed the border and TOOK the job that was offered??????

Mexico as a whole has left itself go to hell and the people would rather come here and have it easy, rather then fight and build a nation they can be proud of. They should because their culture, food, and people tend to be nice and appealing, but the bottom feeders have taken that country over. But to their credit, atleast Mexico isn't SELLING their people to Americans for profit and then 200 years later acting like it was everyone else's fault.

I live in Atlanta where its 70% blacks and for the most part this entire area is over the "slave" entitlement crap. These folks work hard and want the same thing as the white man, the yellow man, the green man, etc...and thats to revamp a BS society and finally get back on track where man is responsible for himself and we stop blaming or making excuses. By the way, the old black folk down here who actually understand this entire issue actually are more pissed off at Africa and their ancestors who sold them to the white man.

You have to be one pathetic individual to actually bring up slavery and feel your entitled due to something that has never happened to you, but you THINK you can relate too.

[edit on 4/10/2010 by rcwj1975]

reply to post by Historymajor


And the excuse for the youth now? Let me guess, psychological damage as a result of slavery? If you honestly think that slavery in America was the worst ever, perhaps you need to study history a little better, the 1400 years of Muslim slave trade in India far surpassed what happened here in the states.........using the past as an excuse, is just that, an excuse.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by Historymajor

 

And the excuse for the youth now? Let me guess, psychological damage as a result of slavery? If you honestly think that slavery in America was the worst ever, perhaps you need to study history a little better, the 1400 years of Muslim slave trade in India far surpassed what happened here in the states.........using the past as an excuse, is just that, an excuse.

If you read my above post about the sociological setting in which the African American youth have to live within...then yes conditioning does play a significant role in why things are the way they are. It indeed does tie back to slavery. Lets see, you have slavery...then "emancipation", which was a joke, because although a man was free, he was still discriminated against..i.e. cannot vote, discriminated against when it came to employment...and yeah...segregation, he couldn't even attend the same schools and get an equal opportunity! in essence, Jim Crow laws, negated the whole idea of freedom. As for the worst slave trade! You can't be serious...the atrocities commited during the Muslim slave trade can not even equate with that of the CHATTEL slavery that happened in America. I dare you to read about it. Granted, all slavery was bad, but MOST slaves in America during the 17th, 18th, and 19th century were not even able to buy their freedom. The abuse, the rapes, the illegal medical procedures performed on slaves, the psycological effects that it had on women, men, and children cannot be compared to the systems of slavery that existed elsewhere. Just because the muslim slave trade lasted longer, does not mean that it was more atrocious than the one that existed in America. Most of the captives in the Muslim slavetrade were converted to Islam, and after conversion they joined the forces of the Muslims and served under the caliphs. Even the encomiendas could not compare to the atrocities that went on in America. Imagine that your great great grandparents were enslaved, and prohibted them from learning to read and write, whipped, raped, and beat , and then this was done to your great grandparents...and so on. But then after all this...your parents were set free. Keep in mind, that your parents witnessed this brutatlity as a kid before they were freed. And then after they are "freed", they are discriminated against. Jim crow laws prohibited them from getting a decent education, and being a productive member of society. Their way of thinking will undoubtedly affect your way of thinking and so on...and when you grow up, although Jim crow laws have been done away with, you still are discriminated against, stereotyped, oh yeah left in the inner city where education is joke because the schools can't provide you with updated material. How is that for even? Again, as I've stated before...I'm not making any excuses for any race, but I think before anyone make any accusations about the conditions of a people, which is unfathomable for most, a thorough study of sociology and history just might be the key to having a sound argument. I've admitted in previous post, that this does not apply to all people, whether they are African American, descendants of indentured slaves, or even descendants of slaves from other countries. I just believe that there are certain elements in which most fail to recognize before passing judgement.
A race of people were held back for a long time, and the fight for "equality" was just won in the 1960's. That wasn't even 50 years ago,but African Americans are expected to play catch up and perform as if the past had never happened. If the African American people were not ever enslaved, and conditions were the same as they are today, your argument would be sound

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Historymajor]

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Historymajor]

as far as i'm concerned, the confederacy started the civil war to break up america, to perserve massive wealth through monied interests that would have influence over localized states rights.
when southern landowners recognized that they might lose this control, they rallied southerners by simple slogans of "us versus them", as if they cared about anything other than their own wealth.
by the way...northern "boys" died from the civil war that the south started, but apparently there is no mention of them...i guess their mothers and fathers that lost their sons don't matter to the "confederates"
to "celebrate" something so horrific in terms of all the young soldiers lost, ON BOTH SIDES, and for the reason of protecting large wealthy land owners, who were too cheap to free the slaves and pay them a wage, is disgusting. the civil war is over, and the southerners should start acting like americans, instead of romanticizing about a brutal, and soul-sucking time in america from 160 years ago.

The civil war was about slavery. It was the main cause of the conflict, and battles were already being fought in the Kansas territories before Lincoln was ever elected.

People trying to reconstruct this history are doing no one any favors.

www.splcenter.org...,0

Intelligence Report: Let's talk about some of the unorthodox views of modern neo-Confederate ideologues. One of their key contentions is that the Civil War wasn't about slavery at all, that it was fundamentally a clash of two differing economic systems. Is there anything to that?

Simpson: First of all, without slavery there's no Civil War in the first place, there's no irreconcilable conflict, so that's a sine qua non.

Second, when people talk about conflicting economic systems, obviously the root of the conflict was that the South's economic system was based upon plantation slavery.

So one can't talk about different economic systems without once again coming back to the issue of slavery. That was fundamental to what the South was about.

There is a strange paradox here. These people deride what they call political correctness, and yet one of their first missions is to whitewash the Confederacy of any connection with slavery. They actually seem sensitive to any possibility that the Confederacy is linked with race, and want to absolve the Confederacy of any charges of racism at all.

reply to post by rcwj1975


A man wrote a book last year on the farm labor. It is not that whites don't want these jobs, it is that they won't do them. Why? It is little pay and hard work.

He was a white male of 30 something and walked right on and got the job picking lettuce. The Latins wouldn't even talk to him because they have never seen a white person take the job before, and thought he was an agent. When they figured out he wasn't, then they thought he was just crazy.

He then went to work at a poultry plant where 50% of the people at his orientation quit in the first 3 days, in this recession.

Fact is, white people just don't want to do the jobs, and are perfectly ok with keeping people in less then ideal conditions to do them. I have seen even legal migration worker homes, they are not ideal.

No one forced immigrants, illegal or otherwise to come and work these jobs, no. But it IS the only options we have left them.
Many of the conditions the Africans came from were worse then what they go here. But that still doesn't make it ok that they were forced labor.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


There are still plenty people around who remember having to sit in the back of the bus or had to drink from the colored water fountain. Seperation only ended a few decades ago. Just because your too young to remember, doesn't mean there are not hordes of people around who do. And the effects are still pervasive.

I just heard a story on "listening is an act of love" from a grand-daughter who asked her grandmother why she refused to wear nail polish. She said her grandmother was a maid. One day the owner of the house she was cleaning threw out some nail polish. She took a bottle and painted her nails to make herself feel pretty. Seh then went to the store to run errands for the homeowners. This is even after seperation ended. The store owner called her this and that and said how dare you try to look like a white woman. And proceeded to pull every single fingernail out one by one with a pair of pliars.

That was only a few decades ago.

Again at what point do the excuses end and responsibility become the norm? The Muslim slave trade in India was far worse, sorry might wanna check that one again. At what point do you cease accepting a handout and use a hand up instead? Sorry, we aren't gonna see eye to eye on this.....and as long as you have proffesional extortion groups like the naacp and the splc, it's never gonna change. Stand up and make something of yourself, instead of lamenting how your ancestors were treated. My ancestors were/are all Cajun, not exactly a smooth happy history there, not saying it compares completely to the slaves, but still not a happy equally treated people. Everyone has to take responsibility for themselves and strive to better themselves, playing the perpetual victim helps no none.

reply to post by nixie_nox


The illegal migrant population allows these large ranches to survive. If it wasn't for the cheap labor, these ranches would most likely decline a great deal in size, where a family or cooperative would work their own land.

Yes, fruits and vegetables would be more expensive, but wealth would be spread far more evenly, and average people would have more wealth. Maybe we would see a reduction in suburban sprawl. The smaller orchards would also probable increase many cottage industries like equipment maintenance.

Illegal immigration just allows the plantation mentality to continue, and the same goes for most factory farming.